Men with BPD - Fragile Narcissists with Psychopathic tendencies?

[ILMBPDC]

On another thread, someone referenced this video from Richard Gannon: The Borderline Personality Disorder Fraud | Misdiagnosis/Stigma Controversy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwKl3Z_VlhM) - its long, 46 minutes, but it was so interesting that I watched the whole thing and I am so happy I did.

For context, the whole video talks about how he believes BPD as a diagnosis shouldn't exist and that most women diagnosed with it are pretty much cPTSD sufferers, though some have psychopathic tendencies as well. The interesting thing for me came when, near the end, he starts talking about men diagnosed with BPD and how he says that most of them are scary people and essentially megalomaniacal psychopaths.

Near then end, at around 41:57, I feel like he is totally describing my ex
(my notes, not a 100% transcription but close)

• Men with BPD are likely fragile narcissistic and probably a psychopath
• Highly emotionally dysregulated
• Megalomaniacal victimhood status obsessed psychopath
• Ashamed of own grandiosity
• Ashamed of self
• Cycle between thinking they are the best thing on earth to the worst thing on earth
• Demand attention, pity and sympathy from everybody
• Like to attack people in subtle, small ways where they aren't even sure they are being attacked or not

Months ago I remember reading about covert BPD and posting that I thought that might fit my ex. But I also said that I felt like he has some narcissistic tendencies. I never really felt like he fit in with a lot of people's stories here...but the above description is him. I never put it into words but I have seen almost everything above (the only one I haven't seen is shame in his own grandiosity). I have seen him think he is the best thing ever and also the worst. I have seen him shameful of himself. Just a week or so ago he was feeling that way and literally told me "I wish people would just agree with me that I'm a piece of sh*t instead of telling me I'm not". He definitely plays the victim, something I have noticed way more now that he is in a custody battle with his ex-wife. He is status obsessed, definitely, though I don't think I would have used the term "megalomaniac" I guess I don't know how obsessed he is with power.

The last bit, the part about attacking people in subtle ways, I never put into words but yes... I have experienced him goading me into arguments (politics because that is the one place where our opinions are diametrically opposite) and just bashing on things to the point where I am angry and feel bad, even though he never attacked me directly. And then he is perfectly fine. Its like it helps him relieve his own dysregulated feelings to attack like that (and I have actually read somewhere that that can happen with pwBPD - picking fights helps them alleviate their emotions).

I am just finding this so super interesting.

[Biggus]

Richard Grannon is many things: a Youtuber, life coach, ex martial arts teacher, etc...

However, he is NOT a licensed psychologist nor a psychotherapist.

You can watch his videos sure, but he's as credible as a source about psychology/personal disorders, as Joe Rogan is about proper Covid treatment.

[ILMBPDC]

Richard Grannon is many things: a Youtuber, life coach, ex martial arts teacher, etc...

However, he is NOT a licensed psychologist nor a psychotherapist.

You can watch his videos sure, but he's as credible as a source about psychology/personal disorders, as Joe Rogan is about proper Covid treatment.

That's fair. At the same time it was really interesting and was good for contemplating - and from what I understand a lot of his info is informed by Pete walker so he may not be a pro but he's not completely unknowledgeable.

[Biggus]

That's fair. At the same time it was really interesting and was good for contemplating - and from what I understand a lot of his info is informed by Pete walker so he may not be a pro but he's not completely unknowledgeable.

The problem is exactly that. He knows a few terms so he can sound convincing enough to make people think maybe he's onto something.

There's a consensus between millions of real professionals about what BPD is since it was added to the DSM in 1980.

Then comes a couple of youtubers who just say "everyone else is wrong, it's like this instead. Men can have BPD and women just have cPTSD."

There's a lot of information in youtube, but much of it is just completely wrong.

[ILMBPDC]

There's a lot of information in youtube, but much of it is just completely wrong.

Oh I agree with that. This particular video really resonated with me and he literally listed traits my ex has - and actually gave me a new perspective. I feel like something "clicked" about my ex that I hadn't recognized before and it doesn't really matter whether or not he is "right" in his diagnosis (I mean you cant diagnose someone on the internet anyway).

I am still healing and every little bit helps me in realizing how bad it could have been and helps me convince myself I shouldn't want to be with him (I mostly don't want to be with him but there are times where I miss him and wish it would work out - and then something like this comes along and opens my eyes to subtle things I hadn't noticed before. It helps)

[Trying2try]

While I haven’t seen the video, I just wanted to affirm that feeling of someone else aptly describing your reality. The feeling of light flooding into the room, the feeling of needing to write it down, the feeling of reading and re-reading or watching it. The thought of, Yes! Yes! That’s what’s been happening! Maybe even some things you didn’t realize were part of “this” but now they are explained.

Been on this journey for a long, long time and I’ve only had it twice. Reading the psych evaluation and reading Why Does He Do That, by Lundy Bancroft. I actually read the book first (good but some tough examples of abuse) and was highlighting and writing in the margin at warp speed.

I am glad you are on a healing journey and you found something to really resonate with you.

[Biggus]

Oh I agree with that. This particular video really resonated with me and he literally listed traits my ex has - and actually gave me a new perspective. I feel like something "clicked" about my ex that I hadn't recognized before and it doesn't really matter whether or not he is "right" in his diagnosis (I mean you cant diagnose someone on the internet anyway).

I am still healing and every little bit helps me in realizing how bad it could have been and helps me convince myself I shouldn't want to be with him (I mostly don't want to be with him but there are times where I miss him and wish it would work out - and then something like this comes along and opens my eyes to subtle things I hadn't noticed before. It helps)

It's good that you can separate the wheat from the chaff. For me personally the stuff is a bit annoying, because BPD, NPD, cPTSD all have some intersecting traits, but there's a difference. One person I know is very BPD with strong narcissist traits, but I wouldn't call her a psychopath or NPD. Another one could have a cPTSD, she does splitting and has other proximity issues, but lacks many traits that BPD has.

I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion about your ex, I just have a cautious approach on these things. Our minds play trick on us constantly, and one of them is confirmation bias. If we see a list of characteristics and compare someone we know against that light, our mind starts to actively look for memories which will confirm those charasteristics true, even if it's something which happened only once in a stressful situation. After we have checked every item on that list we come into a conclusion which feels 100% true to us. When trying to figure out someone you know closely, it could be helpful to create a list of that person's characteristics first and rate those charasteristics, then compare it with actual lists of different pd traits.

[once removed]

question.

it helps me in realizing how bad it could have been and helps me convince myself I shouldn't want to be with him

are hypothetical scenarios that didnt occur really helpful?

my ex never hit me. its possible that she might have had we remained together. but to my knowledge, she never hit anyone before or after me.

is it helpful if i listen to a source that tells me she might have, or would have been likely to?

i dont mean to be flippant, ILMBPDC.

others have touched on the source (this is not a credible bpd source). as for what it is telling you, ask yourself this: you went through, and have been through a lot with this person. isnt there enough to unpack without adding hypotheticals?

[PeteWitsend]

I think, based on the stories I've read here, that BPD men tend to be more physically aggressive, if not openly violent to their partners.  BPD women can be physically abusive, but it's less common. 

That distinction, being very objective (verbal vs. physical abuse) probably seems more obvious and significant to those of us who are not professional psychologists or psychiatrists.

A lay person is probably also more likely to downplay the effect of emotional or verbal abuse, while a professional would not, and would not therefore see as much of a distinction between how BPD manifests in men versus women. 

[ILMBPDC]

I think, based on the stories I've read here, that BPD men tend to be more physically aggressive, if not openly violent to their partners.  BPD women can be physically abusive, but it's less common. 

That distinction, being very objective (verbal vs. physical abuse) probably seems more obvious and significant to those of us who are not professional psychologists or psychiatrists.

A lay person is probably also more likely to downplay the effect of emotional or verbal abuse, while a professional would not, and would not therefore see as much of a distinction between how BPD manifests in men versus women. 

My ex is not at all aggressive or abusive (as a matter of act I really wished he would take charge sometimes!  He was rather passive in anything not work-related). But I truly think he has aspects of narcissism and that entire list fits him, minus the the shame at grandiosity (at least not that I saw) and he isn't a psychopath that I know of (though in some definitions there are aspects that fit, I think that is mostly overlap with narcissism).

At the same time, the rest of the video talks about BPD and misdiagnoses and I have wondered for awhile about my daughter's BPD diagnosis - her symptoms did not start in childhood, rather in teenagerhood after an abusive relationship and bullying at school. The more I learn about cPTSD/PTSD the more I wonder if that is a more accurate diagnosis for her.

So I guess the video aligned with a lot of doubts/thoughts I've had about the people with BPD in my life and while I get that its probably confirmation bias for me, it still gives people something to think about - especially since there are so many of us on here who are just assuming BPD in our significant others and they aren't diagnosed (my ex wasn't diagnosed, but he told me he thinks he's BPD).