So today is the start of No Contact for me. I'm done.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey all, the title says it all. After possibly the most horrendous weekend visiting my mother, I have made the jump to no contact. The final straw came when I was being bullied so badly by her and her friend (a character who has her eyes on money) and they would not back down despite a very good Grey Rock from me (and some emergency propranolol). I took time out but decided to secretly record their conversation when I left the room to see what was said about me.

It was devastating. My mother called me "an absolute bitch" and "you have no idea of the stress she is causing me", "she is spiteful, cruel, so cruel" and some there were some other lies from my mother about my behaviour, from before the friend arrived. She also described a family friend as saying that they can't stand me, using a yucky tone to her voice. There were clear indications of how she has woven quite a web of deceit around her friendships.

It wasn't so much the content of the conversation that woke me up, I have long known I was vilified by my mother for her victim status, it was the sound of her voice. The venom when talking about her own daughter, in fact that was the thing, she talked with such hatred about me despite my being her daughter. It was a real light bulb moment and I knew that single exchange would keep me No Contact as long as I listened to it every time I was wavering. All I have ever done was try to act with integrity and appeal to a potential "good" mother that I was sure HAD to be in there somewhere. There is no such mother.

So much happened over the weekend but I just walked away. I feel okay, I know the next few months will be a rough ride and I have just walked away from around half a million pounds of inheritance. My mother actually said in front of the friend I was disinherited. Occasionally I remember something that was said, coupled with a memory of my dad dying and I cry, but the tears pass through and I am okay again. I know this first bit is easy, it's the next few weeks and months that will be where the work is. I came to see the utter futility of dealing with such a frankly dangerous individual.

I thought about this little community yesterday, I took strength from knowing that you guys get it. So thank you.

[Goldcrest]

Hey all, the title says it all. After possibly the most horrendous weekend visiting my mother, I have made the jump to no contact. The final straw came when I was being bullied so badly by her and her friend (a character who has her eyes on money) and they would not back down despite a very good Grey Rock from me (and some emergency propranolol). I took time out but decided to secretly record their conversation when I left the room to see what was said about me.

It was devastating. My mother called me "an absolute bitch" and "you have no idea of the stress she is causing me", "she is spiteful, cruel, so cruel" and some there were some other lies from my mother about my behaviour, from before the friend arrived. She also described a family friend as saying that they can't stand me, using a yucky tone to her voice. There were clear indications of how she has woven quite a web of deceit around her friendships.

It wasn't so much the content of the conversation that woke me up, I have long known I was vilified by my mother for her victim status, it was the sound of her voice. The venom when talking about her own daughter, in fact that was the thing, she talked with such hatred about me despite my being her daughter. It was a real light bulb moment and I knew that single exchange would keep me No Contact as long as I listened to it every time I was wavering. All I have ever done was try to act with integrity and appeal to a potential "good" mother that I was sure HAD to be in there somewhere. There is no such mother.

So much happened over the weekend but I just walked away. I feel okay, I know the next few months will be a rough ride and I have just walked away from around half a million pounds of inheritance. My mother actually said in front of the friend I was disinherited. Occasionally I remember something that was said, coupled with a memory of my dad dying and I cry, but the tears pass through and I am okay again. I know this first bit is easy, it's the next few weeks and months that will be where the work is. I came to see the utter futility of dealing with such a frankly dangerous individual.

I thought about this little community yesterday, I took strength from knowing that you guys get it. So thank you.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Goldcrest,

I want to congratulate you for standing up for your little Goldcrest and to stop this neverending abuse your mother is putting you through.

The cost is litteral in your case, but I am proud of you. Money, is only money. It is a tool to live, but like my father always said: money is like energy, if you don't hold onto it, if you accept that it is always flowing, as long as you work for yourself, you will not miss it.

We could all use more money, but when money comes to the cost of our sanity, of our integrity, it is just not worth it. And the fact she hinted that you were already disinherited, I can't say I was surprised to read that, knowing part of your life story, your mother is a bit sadist and most definitely cruel. So again: I am very proud of you for standing up for your self.

You deserve only kindness and love.

[Goldcrest]

Thank you so much Riv3rW0lf your support along with others and everyones stories gave me courage. I am so, so pleased I made that recording. It was liberating. I listened to it in the toilet before we were due to go to lunch and all the blood drained out of me. I had to continue to the lunch because I was chaperoning my nieces the next day so I had to carry on as if nothing had happened. That was tough, but knowing that 49 years of abuse was nearly over, well that was the best feeling. My mother hasn't actually disinherited me yet but said it was her intention (this was before she realised I was going no contact, it was punishment for standing my ground).

It was stunning, hearing how much she despises me, the hatred in her voice was such a shock. I honestly think she knew on some level that once my dad died, she was walking on thin ice. My dad's approval of me was the one thing I couldn't walk away from. Once he was gone apart from money, nothing was left for me. The money is blood money and I don't want it. I love that I am rejecting it, she is money obsessed so it sends out quite a message. I trust I can find a way in life. I have survived her intolerable abuse so financial difficulties (if they arise) won't compare.

I'll keep people posted on her on the process, If it helps to know what happens. I suspect I will get depressed at times but I don't mind because I just sit it out and it will pass. Hope you are okay Riv3rW0lf.

[Methuen]

Oh Goldcrest.  I am so sorry to hear that.  

I have never recorded a convo when I wasn’t present.  I don’t think I would want to hear what she says.  I only record when she is dysregulating and I am with her and trying to de-escalate. It’s a tool to help me handle her better, and I share it with my T who tells me what I did well, and where I could improve.  

What concerns me is that what your mom said was her disease talking.  Not her.  I once had. a T who suggested I form an image of the disease (mine is a shriveled brain) which is  different  than a picture of her.  What your mom said represented her feelings in that moment only, because she didn’t lke what you were saying.  It’s  childish - reminds me of the teenage “mean girl” bully.

Have you ever noticed preschoolers who can be playing nicely with another prescooler one moment, but then fighting with them the next?  Then the  following  day they might play nicely again.   Our moms are like those preschoolers, with the same level of ability to regulate their emotions, but inside an adult body - which has zero awareness of the damage they are doing, all while holding victim perspective.  It’s like the molative cocktail of relationships.

  Your mother lacks nurturing, and has not kept you safe.  What she said is reprehensible and without excuse.  With your story it  is completely understandable that you go NC.  I have had short spells of NC or low contact, but my mom is 85 and has no other family, so I am still involved because I choose to be.  

Your situation is so different, and so is your history.  I am hopeful that NC will give you the space necessary to start to find peace.  Just remember it was her shriveled up brain saying those things.  This helps me to process.  The pain of hearing a mother say those things can’t even be put into words.  She’s damaged- probably from trauma- but she’s chosen not to deal with it.  Sometimes we have to choose not to be around toxic people to protect ourselves.  You are doing that, and that is an important step.  

Could you tell your mom calmly that you overheard her words about you to her friend, and that is why  you are giving yourself space from her?  What do you think?  I would not say that you recorded.

[Methuen]

Oh Goldcrest.  I am so sorry to hear this..  

I have never recorded a convo when I wasn’t present.  I don’t think I would want to hear what she says.  I only record when she is dysregulating and I am with her and trying to de-escalate. It’s a tool to help me handle her better, and I share it with my T who tells me what I did well, and where I could improve.  

What concerns me is that what your mom said was her disease talking.  Not her.  I once had. a T who suggested I form an image of the disease (mine is a shriveled brain) which is  different  than a picture of her.  What your mom said represented her feelings in that moment only, because she didn’t lke what you were saying.  It’s  childish - reminds me of the teenage “mean girl” bully.

Have you ever noticed preschoolers who can be playing nicely with another prescooler one moment, but then fighting with them the next?  Then the  following  day they might play nicely again.   Our moms are like those preschoolers, with the same level of ability to regulate their emotions, but inside an adult body - which has zero awareness of the damage they are doing, all while holding victim perspective.  It’s like the molative cocktail of relationships.

  Your mother lacks nurturing, and has not kept you safe.  What she said is reprehensible and without excuse.  With your story it  is completely understandable that you go NC.  I have had short spells of NC or low contact, but my mom is 85 and has no other family, so I am still involved because I choose to be.  

Your situation is so different, and so is your history.  I am hopeful that NC will give you the space necessary to start to find peace.  Just remember it was her shriveled up brain saying those things.  This helps me to process.  The pain of hearing a mother say those things can’t even be put into words.  She’s damaged- probably from trauma- but she’s chosen not to deal with it.  Sometimes we have to choose not to be around toxic people to protect ourselves.  You are doing that, and that is an important step.  

Could you tell your mom calmly that you overheard her words about you to her friend, and that is why  you are giving yourself space from her?  What do you think?  I would not say that you recorded. Then you have communicated that your NC is a natural consequence of what she said.  If she denies saying it do not tell her about the recording.  Just calmly exit.  No more would need to be said.  Don’t engage.  What do you think?  

[missing NC]

Hi Goldcrest,

I am very sorry for what you are going through with your mom. I hope you can find peace through distance.

I agree with Methuen's suggestion not to disclose the recording as recording someone without their knowledge is generally problematic from a legal standpoint in the US because of the "reasonable expectations of privacy" in a personal conversation.  (In some states, it's okay to record a conversation that you are part of without disclosing the recording. In other states, it illegal to record surreptitiously even if you are part of the conversation.) 

Again, I am so sorry for your loss and recognize how traumatic listening to the recording must have been for you. 

[Notwendy]

Good for you to let go of this.

I have heard that vitriol and know BPD mother has  said things about me to her circle of friends. On a recent visit, I was there and she was invited over for tea and cake by some neighbors. Although I was visiting, BPD mother didn't include me. She told me the invitation was only for her. I thought that was odd since I had met them them too. I couldn't imagine it would be too much trouble on their part to include me for a cup of tea? I stayed back but I eventually asked one of them if they even knew I was in town and they said of course. Then I said, was I not invited? and she replied "of course you were".

I realized it was my mother who didn't want to include me.

I couldn't imagine why. I would not behave badly. However, had they actually gotten to spend some time with me, they might see that I don't fit the description of what she tells people and maybe they'd wonder if perhaps I am not the horrible things she says I am.

Yes, it is hurtful to feel that if we act with integrity, people are told otherwise.

But who do we act with integrity for? Us, it is our value system, it's who we are. What our BPD mothers choose to think or say doesn't change that.

You will walk away from this with your integrity and character intact. She can never change that. You will have your moments but stay strong!

[missing NC]

Please forgive my ethnocentrism, Goldcrest. I now see you are in the UK.  So US privacy laws do not apply though I suspect they are rather similar given the same common law basis.

In any case, it's not over until it's over regarding your mom's estate planning.  She may or may not have included you in her final will either way. That said, I admire your standing in your own power and walking away from a potential inheritance. 

[zachira]

I admire your courage in going NC with your mother. If you have remained in contact, most likely the way you are treated by your mother would only get much worse. My heart goes out to you.

[Goldcrest]

I think I am slowly realising that my mother has been saying some really damaging things about me for a long while and I was blind to the extent of it. It's like there are levels of knowing. You think you know but when you are confronted with hard proof you realise you didn't really believe it deep down. I am starting to see now that certain people have behaved very coldly or made comments to me that hurt or didn't make sense, but now I see that she has been feeding them lies about me. My own dad was so very cold and off with me on his death bed. She is a master at thinking on her feet to create a story that makes me (or her target) look like the villain.

To reassure you all the recording was for my own use, to validate and confirm my fears about her lying behind my back. I have no plans to use it legally or reveal I have made it. I did say to them that I had overheard them talking about me when I left the room but my mother will dismiss that as further proof of MY paranoia. I shared the recording with my brother, again to validate my decision to go no contact. He was very supportive of me but he feels he can still succeed with her, so wants to keep on with the relationship, which is a bit of a red flag but he has to make his own decisions. I am aware that she will now work on breaking his opinion of me and I may well lose him again for a bit. We have talked about this openly but he believes she can't get to him. Sadly I am not so sure.

I may sound like I am over reacting but my mother is dangerous in her games and manipulations. She did not believe nor listen to me when I tried to tell her the awful things my paedophille boyfriend was doing and actually took his side. She then turned my distress into something to mock and to use for her own victim status, projecting all the very worst of herself on to my brother and I.

Thank you, all of you, so much for your kind words and support. You have helped me start the journey to freedom.

[Notwendy]

I get it Goldcrest.

My first realization of how far this had gone was a while back when I emailed one of her family members. The email got forwarded to another one who said some odd things about me. Eventually someone in their email group hit "reply all" instead of "reply" and it got back to me.

When I first read it, I thought they were talking about my mother-describing someone with emotional problems and then it became clear they were talking about me. I don't even live near them and they haven't been around me much- maybe just at a family wedding or something- there is no way they would have come up with this through any encounters with me as there were none.

Once it got back to me that my BPD mother was saying these kinds of things.  She called several people telling them I was emotionally unbalanced. She was angry at me at the time but she over reached and called people who would have told me- and they did.

One thing she also does when she says these things is to tell them to not tell me about their conversation.

The one with the family members was upsetting. They are intelligent people and I couldn't see how they didn't just use their own observations before judging me but it seemed they believed her.

I didn't have much choice about it-if I tried to say anything, they'd have to decide that  either she is lying or I am lying and she's already set the stage for them to believe her, so I didn't do anything. Saying anything about my mother to them would only look bad on my part. They didn't contact me after my father died, and I didn't contact them but they remained in contact with her. And I think over time they began to see that things didn't add up for her. We have had some minimal contact recently.

On my part, I decided to go with integrity. I didn't say anything bad about her. If I encountered them at a family event- I was cordial and polite with everyone. I decided that what they thought about me didn't change who I am. Naturally, I am a bit embarrassed around them as I have no idea what they think about me. I know I don't have anything to be embarrassed about but I still don't feel it's a secure relationship- and probably won't. I remain guarded around anyone in my mother's circle.

[lm1109]

I'm so sorry you are going through such a tough time.

I think I am slowly realising that my mother has been saying some really damaging things about me for a long while and I was blind to the extent of it. It's like there are levels of knowing. You think you know but when you are confronted with hard proof you realise you didn't really believe it deep down. I am starting to see now that certain people have behaved very coldly or made comments to me that hurt or didn't make sense, but now I see that she has been feeding them lies about me. My own dad was so very cold and off with me on his death bed. She is a master at thinking on her feet to create a story that makes me (or her target) look like the villain.

This is such a difficult realization. I have just come to the full understanding of this as well. My Dad chose to believe my Mom's lies my WHOLE life and I was also blind to the extent of it. Or maybe I didn't want to believe how sick my parents actually are/were? 

NC has been hard, but for me, continuing to be hurt by my Mom was MUCH harder. I'm only going on about 3 months NC, but it is already getting easier. I can somewhat relate to the pain of hearing that recording. The best decision I ever made in my relationship with my Mom was refusing any contact outside of text or email(so it was documented) She sent me an impulsive email filled with utter lies and said the most abusive disgusting things she could say to me. The pain of seeing the truth of how she sees me was almost intolerable at first. But that email is my freedom, and it's my proof of how damaging she is to me. It's invaluable to have it in black and white and it will always be there to give me strength if I ever doubt myself. That recording may very well be the same for you. Recordings and emails can't be gaslit away! As hard as it was to see the truth, I'm thankful for it. I needed to be slapped in the face with the full extent of her disdain for me to finally choose myself and walk away. I am fully aware that her email was her disease and traumatized inner child  talking, but I am not allowing her disease to take me out with her! I have my OWN traumatized inner child to tend to! We all deserve freedom and peace, I believe you should take as much time as you need for this.

I may sound like I am over reacting but my mother is dangerous in her games and manipulations. She did not believe nor listen to me when I tried to tell her the awful things my paedophille boyfriend was doing and actually took his side. She then turned my distress into something to mock and to use for her own victim status, projecting all the very worst of herself on to my brother and I.

You do not sound like you're over reacting in the least! You sound like someone who has been unjustly abused, and is choosing to take your power and life back! That sounds very healthy and brave to me! 

[zachira]

What really hurts beyond what I can put into words is how others became your mother's flying monkeys and treated you with contempt, as if you really did something horrible like kill somebody, when what you really did was refuse to accept being abused and demanded to be treated with the respect any normal human being would expect for a relationship to continue. The pain, sorrow, and anger you feel is a life long sorrow,  because of all the lost key family relationships which cannot be replaced, even though with time, you will feel so much happier and at peace knowing you have made the right decision to walk away from all the family abuse.

[Goldcrest]

What really hurts beyond what I can put into words is how others became your mother's flying monkeys and treated you with contempt, as if you really did something horrible like kill somebody, when what you really did was refuse to accept being abused and demanded to be treated with the respect any normal human being would expect for a relationship to continue. The pain, sorrow, and anger you feel is a life long sorrow,  because of all the lost key family relationships which cannot be replaced, even though with time, you will feel so much happier and at peace knowing you have made the right decision to walk away from all the family abuse.

Zachira, yes, I don't have the words either.

I just watched a Dr Ramani video where she talks about manipulation and she says that she sees so many people stay in a Narcissistic relationship and battle feelings of resentment because they want to avoid the feeling of guilt, if they were to leave. BOTH are unpleasant feelings but the later means you don't have to deal with the abuse anymore.

I'm so relieved to be No Contact. I keep realising what it means for me. I never have to see my mother again and endure her abuse. I do feel afraid, not because I feel any guilt actually, but because I am alone, an orphan. I do see though that the connection I thought I had to a "mother" was illusionary and making me sick. It is like I have had an infected limb cut off and I need to learn to manage without it. Once I do learn, life will be so much better.