Processing a simple family dinner

[Our abuse recovery guide]

We had a family dinner yesterday with my husband's parents and his brother and brother's wife.

I am proud to say I was able to sleep, even though part of me was still scanning and scanning what happened and where I was 'bad' or 'stupid'. This time I tried to put myself as an observer of my own behaviors and thoughts, and here what came up:

- I was awfully stressed all the time they were in my house. My body was so, so tense.  And so kept thinking: surely they can all see how tense I am, I have to relax, and kept feeling so stressed.

- My homemade caramel ended up too hard and so I made sure I said it first, I was going into a self hatred vortex in my head... Thankfully my husband was there to catch the ball and make it into something silly by telling his dad to take off his partial before biting it, which really made me laugh and released all pressure I was feeling about a dessert... Just an imperfect dessert that wasn't and never will be the end of the world. In fact, if anyone would really make you feel worthless over a missed dessert, then they need to be pushed out of your life. and so I was able to push my inner critic away, thanks to hubby.

- A feeling that I cannot trust my father in law; I gave a bit of chocolate pie to my 11months old, he really wanted a taste. I had made it myself and so it was dark chocolate with coco milk, no sugar added, only what was in the dark chocolate. Mother in law jumped on the occasion to say she would give him ice cream and I said, no, not before he is 18monts old (that's just me, I am not in a rush to give him his first sugar rush... Some will, some don't, and in the end, it is the parents decision) and Father in law said : we will send you away and give it to him while you aren't there... He was laughing. I smiled and thought he was really not helpful in making me feel respected. Mother in law said maybe she could give him frozen yogourt instead, and I said that would be better. I focused on him, but maybe I should have focused on her and how she is really trying to respect my boundaries while still enjoying the part of being able to treat her grandkids...

-I opened myself about feeling a bit overwhelmed about being a full time mother to my sister and brother in law. That it felt like an identity loss, that I gave everything away to care for my children, my job, my gym, everything I was and that nobody tells you just how hard motherhood will be. That I sometimes fantasize about going to work someplace else than home. Brother in law answered by saying his wife had it worst when her kids were young (they are not teenager) and how I should : wait until they are teenagers, it is even worst. But sis in law, while sharing her story of being a solo mom, was still respectful of my feelings. I felt she needed validation, as a mother, in the struggles she went through, but she wasn't discarding my own feelings, which I found validating as well. And so, even if brother in law is a bit like his dad, I can tell sis in law is also a good empathetic person that doesn't wish to compete and like me, is looking for healthy validation.

Still I wondered: why did I even talk about my motherhood feeling with them? I opened up about my inside to people I barely know... And I think the answer is: I was always hopeful.

My little girl, inside, despite all the hurt, despite all the pain, always wanted to keep hoping that people were good. And she kept opening up, despite the hurtful backlash it often brought. Sometimes, she opens too much. But she doesn't like chitchat, she wants to talk about things that matters to her. And since my life right now is my children, it makes sense that it is what I talk about... They work, so they talk about their work. Well, my main work are my children, and so, I talk about my work too...

When asked about my house, I was honest in saying I still don't feel at home. I am not sure I like my house that much to be honest. Again, I felt like I was opening my inside to them, and I kept thinking why the hell am I saying all that?

To anyone, this is just chitchat, to me, talking about my feelings equate becoming vulnérable because I lack self-assertion. I am allowed to feel what I feel and to share it with people. It is ok that I am struggling a bit right now with motherhood, and it is ok that I don't like my house. And I don't want to play the perfect mother game of : ho yes things are perfect, I am perfect, we are all perfect. That is not who I am. But saying the truth, makes me feel so, so exposed.

But it is ok, in the end, I remained true to myself, I recognized my inner critic panicking and I thought : it's ok, let's take another leap. And all in all, the women in the room got it.

Needed to process. Thanks for reading.

[Riv3rW0lf]

We had a family dinner yesterday with my husband's parents and his brother and brother's wife.

I am proud to say I was able to sleep, even though part of me was still scanning and scanning what happened and where I was 'bad' or 'stupid'. This time I tried to put myself as an observer of my own behaviors and thoughts, and here what came up:

- I was awfully stressed all the time they were in my house. My body was so, so tense.  And so kept thinking: surely they can all see how tense I am, I have to relax, and kept feeling so stressed.

- My homemade caramel ended up too hard and so I made sure I said it first, I was going into a self hatred vortex in my head... Thankfully my husband was there to catch the ball and make it into something silly by telling his dad to take off his partial before biting it, which really made me laugh and released all pressure I was feeling about a dessert... Just an imperfect dessert that wasn't and never will be the end of the world. In fact, if anyone would really make you feel worthless over a missed dessert, then they need to be pushed out of your life. and so I was able to push my inner critic away, thanks to hubby.

- A feeling that I cannot trust my father in law; I gave a bit of chocolate pie to my 11months old, he really wanted a taste. I had made it myself and so it was dark chocolate with coco milk, no sugar added, only what was in the dark chocolate. Mother in law jumped on the occasion to say she would give him ice cream and I said, no, not before he is 18monts old (that's just me, I am not in a rush to give him his first sugar rush... Some will, some don't, and in the end, it is the parents decision) and Father in law said : we will send you away and give it to him while you aren't there... He was laughing. I smiled and thought he was really not helpful in making me feel respected. Mother in law said maybe she could give him frozen yogourt instead, and I said that would be better. I focused on him, but maybe I should have focused on her and how she is really trying to respect my boundaries while still enjoying the part of being able to treat her grandkids...

-I opened myself about feeling a bit overwhelmed about being a full time mother to my sister and brother in law. That it felt like an identity loss, that I gave everything away to care for my children, my job, my gym, everything I was and that nobody tells you just how hard motherhood will be. That I sometimes fantasize about going to work someplace else than home. Brother in law answered by saying his wife had it worst when her kids were young (they are not teenager) and how I should : wait until they are teenagers, it is even worst. But sis in law, while sharing her story of being a solo mom, was still respectful of my feelings. I felt she needed validation, as a mother, in the struggles she went through, but she wasn't discarding my own feelings, which I found validating as well. And so, even if brother in law is a bit like his dad, I can tell sis in law is also a good empathetic person that doesn't wish to compete and like me, is looking for healthy validation.

Still I wondered: why did I even talk about my motherhood feeling with them? I opened up about my inside to people I barely know... And I think the answer is: I was always hopeful.

My little girl, inside, despite all the hurt, despite all the pain, always wanted to keep hoping that people were good. And she kept opening up, despite the hurtful backlash it often brought. Sometimes, she opens too much. But she doesn't like chitchat, she wants to talk about things that matters to her. And since my life right now is my children, it makes sense that it is what I talk about... They work, so they talk about their work. Well, my main work are my children, and so, I talk about my work too...

When asked about my house, I was honest in saying I still don't feel at home. I am not sure I like my house that much to be honest. Again, I felt like I was opening my inside to them, and I kept thinking why the hell am I saying all that?

To anyone, this is just chitchat, to me, talking about my feelings equate becoming vulnérable because I lack self-assertion. I am allowed to feel what I feel and to share it with people. It is ok that I am struggling a bit right now with motherhood, and it is ok that I don't like my house. And I don't want to play the perfect mother game of : ho yes things are perfect, I am perfect, we are all perfect. That is not who I am. But saying the truth, makes me feel so, so exposed.

But it is ok, in the end, I remained true to myself, I recognized my inner critic panicking and I thought : it's ok, let's take another leap. And all in all, the women in the room got it.

Needed to process. Thanks for reading.

[Goldcrest]

Riv3rW0lf I can so relate to the fear of "oversharing" (as I've heard it called). I have done this my whole life and I always feel anxious about what I have said afterwards. I try to not be so open but as you observe, I think we are searching for a connection, to be seen and validated. I also think, for me, I was trained to reveal everything I was thinking to my mother, as a form of control. I always give away so much information to strangers. I would never make a good undercover detective  

Just now my neighbour, who has narcissistic traits and I know to be careful around, came to the door, asking after my dog. In the short time I was with him I gave away unnecessary detail about the events of yesterday, detail which for an ordinary person would be okay, and safe to share, but with someone I need to be careful around it leaves me vulnerable. Praps we get anxious because we know information in the hands of our mothers or a narcissist gives them power?

If I met you, I would be grateful for what you shared at the meal, it would feel like a connection. It sounds like your sis-in-law was grateful that you shared your honest experience of motherhood.  

[Riv3rW0lf]

Riv3rW0lf I can so relate to the fear of "oversharing" (as I've heard it called). I have done this my whole life and I always feel anxious about what I have said afterwards. I try to not be so open but as you observe, I think we are searching for a connection, to be seen and validated. I also think, for me, I was trained to reveal everything I was thinking to my mother, as a form of control. I always give away so much information to strangers. I would never make a good undercover detective  

Yes, my mother was mostly the silent type, and, growing up, talking was a way to appease her. I would hide and my brother would speak none stop... When I had to be there and my brother was not there, then I knew I had to talk, but I barely spoke with her and I think she always resented that, which is why she would blame me for being closer to my father...

When we don't talk, she assumes we are mad against her, and it sets her off, or she guiltrips us into sharing more. But then she uses our "secrets" in a hurtful manner, against us, but also sharing them with our father to hurt him, for example because he didn't know and she did... It is a no win situation. Every confidence, she takes control of and it becomes her right to share it and then she acts as if she didn't mean to reveal it... But it's just control, like you said.

Just now my neighbour, who has narcissistic traits and I know to be careful around, came to the door, asking after my dog. In the short time I was with him I gave away unnecessary detail about the events of yesterday, detail which for an ordinary person would be okay, and safe to share, but with someone I need to be careful around it leaves me vulnerable. Praps we get anxious because we know information in the hands of our mothers or a narcissist gives them power?

Maybe we are more sensitive to narcissistic traits, we can feel them and it stresses us somehow as it reminds us of our mother? Maybe. My father and brother in law both exhibit tendencies but they don't feel like toxic narcissists. I see them more as toddlers looking for attention and validation, not like grown adults narcissists who will errode your identity overtime and leave you confused and hurt. Which is what my mother does, and your mother too, surely...

I don't mean it in a hurtful manner for brother and father in law... but you know, when you say : I did that! And then the other answer: ho it's like me, I did this and that and that and this ... And then they keep on going? Just .. talking about them and always bringing back the discussion to themselves with no sort of acknowledging that they actually heard you. More egocentric than narcissistic. And so you just nod and go along with it, or you fight for validation that they cannot give and you end up facing a wall...

I decided grey rocking (your suggestion I think) and nodding was the best course of action with my father in law. So far, so good.

If I met you, I would be grateful for what you shared at the meal, it would feel like a connection. It sounds like your sis-in-law was grateful that you shared your honest experience of motherhood.  

Thank you for that. It really helped calming my inner critic even more.

[Notwendy]

I am not sure that was oversharing. It sounds more like mom to mom and I can relate to how you feel, having given up my own career to take care of my kids at some point. I did go back to work when the youngest went to college. I love being a mom and value the time I had at home with them when they were little. My ego, and self esteem were at an all time low during those times.

I think honestly, being a SAHM is a tough place. Our culture doesn't value this as a "career". We get no paycheck, we have little adult conversation. We can tidy up the house and moments later, it's a mess. I think what you shared was common feelings, and to family, not a complete stranger or in the workforce.

What makes us nervous is that if we were to share feelings with our BPD mother, it likely would not be validated and possibly led to being shamed. Our boundaries about sharing aren't clear. But we need to be open somewhat to make connections.

Your H sounds like a real keeper, stepping in to support you.

His mother seemed to know that dad was out of line. One should not feed a child anything without checking with parents first. It's your child, you determine what he eats when. He may have just been clueless with that comment. I hope so.

Grandparents though, do like to have a special treat with the grandchild. Eventually, when kids are older, my H's mother liked to make my kids treats. I was not frequent. But they should check with you first before offering them to him.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I am not sure that was oversharing. It sounds more like mom to mom and I can relate to how you feel, having given up my own career to take care of my kids at some point. I did go back to work when the youngest went to college. I love being a mom and value the time I had at home with them when they were little. My ego, and self esteem were at an all time low during those times.

I think honestly, being a SAHM is a tough place. Our culture doesn't value this as a "career". We get no paycheck, we have little adult conversation. We can tidy up the house and moments later, it's a mess. I think what you shared was common feelings, and to family, not a complete stranger or in the workforce.

Yes, I agree it was not oversharing, I was merely being honest about my experience. It just felt like oversharing. Also, when brother in law said something to the effect that : "she had it way worse." I got what he meant, but those kind of comments have a way to nullify your emotions and make someone feel like they are wrong for feeling this way because some people have this worst... I don't share that kind of view. I don't think someone else's struggle nullify the pain someone is going through. My mom would do that : she is the biggest victim in the room. Her life and childhood was worst than ours so we have to be thankful somehow that she traumatized us, because there is worst ..

But then, sis in law did not have this kind of victimhood competition energy, and so, I was able to grasp myself at her energy (instead of brother in law comments) to stop feeling stupid about talking about it. I am aware my current condition is a privilege, being able to stay home with my young kids, and it is a decision we took. Still, I didn't expect it to be this intense. It is rewarding and like you, I value my time with them, but some days are just very hard. And I gave up a lot for it. I don't regret it, but I recognize part of me feels trapped.

It was new for me, being able to view her as different, to not react to his comment entirely and keeping enough headspace to feel SHE wasn't like that.  I am finally gaining a but of wisdom

What makes us nervous is that if we were to share feelings with our BPD mother, it likely would not be validated and possibly led to being shamed. Our boundaries about sharing aren't clear. But we need to be open somewhat to make connections.

Your H sounds like a real keeper, stepping in to support you.

I agree with all that.

Funny thing is .. when I met him, I was at an all time low. I just needed someone, anyone. I was lost and an absolute mess. I can't say I loved him back right away. He really was not my type. In hindsight, I realized I didn't because he did not offer me a way to relive my trauma. He was nice, he listened to me, he validated me. And he wasn't a doormat that I could victimize either. Life works funny that way sometimes... To me, it feels like someone, somewhere, took care of me and sent me someone good for me at a moment when I was too much of a mess to say no... And now I love him so very much. He is exactly what I need. Not perfect, but perfectly imperfect for me.

His mother seemed to know that dad was out of line. One should not feed a child anything without checking with parents first. It's your child, you determine what he eats when. He may have just been clueless with that comment. I hope so.

Yes, but then I don't trust him enough to leave my son with him alone under a certain age... He disregarded me before on matters like that. I will let him take care of him when I am comfortable with my son having huge chunks of sugar rush... Because granddad gives A LOT of sugar... Juice and a big pack of chocolate right down the drain! Ho you want more juice? There? Ho and here's some marshmallows and a chocolate cookie on top of it !

Grandparents though, do like to have a special treat with the grandchild. Eventually, when kids are older, my H's mother liked to make my kids treats. I was not frequent. But they should check with you first before offering them to him.

I agree. I realize many people have issues with grandparents feeding too much sugar to kids. Their generation don't realize how bad sugar can be... Despite both developing diabetes later in life because of it.

I do let them treat my daughter. Last time they brought a pack of smarties. Mom in law always asks first (not father in law) and I always tell her yes. I get that she wants to treat them, and I am all ok for it, even more so because she tells me beforehand , like you said! He doesn't and he feels entitled to do it because he is the grandfather, and there is no point in fighting him... I already told him the doctor said no to give too much sugar to my daughter many times because she is sensitive, he doesn't care. So I have to be sneaky ... Less time there unsupervised.

[Notwendy]

The part that bothers me the most about your FIL is that he discounts your boundaries. I agree that children should not eat too many sweets but it's not just that he would give your kids too many sweets, it's that you have asked him not to- and he says he'd do it, or would do it anyway. That's a boundary violation, you asked him not to.

I think you did well to get to know your H even if he wasn't "your type". When we grow up with dysfunction, "our type" might be what feels familiar to us. You did well to not make this the only basis of a romantic choice.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Notwendy,

I agree. He also has a tendency to belittle my husband, which I don't appreciate. I am getting a vibe that my husband was the scapegoat and his brother the golden child, although their family is much less dysfunctional than mine was.

Like my husband said though, we won't change him. So we have to work around it. So in the end, like I told my husband: I am thankful that he feels so entitled that he will say and do what he does in my face. It is easier for me to come up with alternate ways to make it work when I KNOW what he is doing and how he thinks... If he was sneaky and hypocritical like my mother, it would have taken me much longer to notice and I would have felt deeply hurt and betrayed.

But in my face like that... It's disrespectful, but at least, I can navigate my way around his bad behaviors, and find solutions that do not result in my mother in law suffering from it. Because she truly is trying to respect my boundaries.