Nearly a month no contact, that's enormous for me and I feel better.

[Goldcrest]

So, as the title says it has been nearly a month of no contact and I am feeling much better. The first week was the worst, I really felt very vulnerable that first week.

Surprisingly my mother has not tried to contact me. I am a little shocked at this but I think she knows I am very serious in my intention. No flying monkeys have come calling yet. I was very low about mothers day (this sunday in the UK) but now I feel okay about it. I think the real wake up call for her will be when her birthday comes along in July. No contact then will settle in her mind that we are done.

I am sleeping like a LOG. Deep sleep, if I wake in the night because something has disturbed me, I fall straight back to sleep. I am calmer.

I wonder about her. I wonder how she is plotting and scheming to get by and I see the little girl she really is beneath it all. She will survive. I was simply another chess piece, I naively believed I had "reached" her but my last visit showed me she hasn't changed. My dad cleaned up all of her messes, without dad and without me, I wonder what her strategy for the future will be, who will be the new scapegoat in time. I can enjoy these reflections now, they don't hurt me or make me angry. They are observations and no longer cause me to feel exhausted.

I am aware how desperately isolated I am. I am separated from my husband and have no close friends. I am going to work on building up friendship groups again. My housing situation is not ideal at the moment but hopefully I shall have that sorted soon and I can start to grow and settle. Sometimes I get a panic feeling with the doom thoughts of "what if". By going no contact I have walked away from a large inheritance, but I know that money was never for us, it was a fantasy, a giant carrot. Now I need to address the reality of my finances and build some security in to my life. I can get caught in a negative/fear loop sometimes, thinking I won't cope but have survived some horrendous experiences so I want to start trusting myself. See myself as stronger.

[Notwendy]

 I have walked away from a large inheritance, but I know that money was never for us, it was a fantasy, a giant carrot.

Exactly- a possible inheritance may never materialize and while I believe some things are worth pursuing- with this kind of situation, there's a trade off- your emotional freedom vs staying connected and possibly abused for some future possible promise.

I don't know what the laws are in your area. In my parents' case- even if my father wanted to leave me anything ( I don't think he wanted to ) - the law is such that my mother became the owner of all their property once he passed away. What he wanted was for my mother to have what she needs. Over time, we have seen this as a gift to us because we haven't had to worry about her having what she needs. Our larger concern was that she doesn't manage money well and we want it to be there for her. She has not allowed us to see her finances or assist her with them. She has enlisted others to help her with this. We have no idea if they are being honest or not.

I did want some material items from my father and did get some of them eventually but at first she refused to let me have them and also gave some away to non family members. If she knows I want something of hers, she controls it.

So what I am saying is this- if you think there's any inheritance- but don't have legal recourse to actually get something- and it is in your mother's possession, it has not ever been yours in the first place.

I am glad you are doing better and taking steps to secure your own well being. I understand the confusing sense of loss. My father was also the emotional "glue" between family members and without him, it feels disconnected.

[Goldcrest]

Notwendy thanks for your reply

You are right, the money is hers and if my dad had wanted to give us anything he would have left it in the will. I have made peace with the simple fact all the assets that were in our "family" were illusionary, just like the family. I always felt like a stranger in our family home, never felt I had any right to be in there, I even had to ask if I could make a cup of tea (which was always met with irritation). My mother used to check the carpet to see if you had trodden the pile and therefore grill you about why you had been in rooms she deemed off limits. There is a deep sadness and a bit of self pity (sorrow) but I try to not let it shape who I am going forward.

I have something concrete to walk on now, being a part of the chaos was slowly killing my mind.

[madeline7]

I am LC, for my own complicated reasons, I have chosen to stay LC and not go NC at this point, although when I did for 1 year about 6 years ago, I experienced a very tough time in the beginning and it gave way to a peace I had never really known. My Mom is quite elderly now, in her 90's, and I think in the long run, it will be better for me to see this through with LC. The key here is that the terms of the contact is what is best for me, and I have finally figured out how to put myself in the equation. So about that inheritance. It seems that almost yearly, my uBPDm made changes to her will according to which adult child she was mad at. And after my Dad passed away, the roulette wheel stopped on me. Didn't find this out until she was moved into Assisted Living. Now she is too old to change it, so I am disinherited although she still feels that I should be taking care of her. However, she is running through her money, since she is quite old but healthy, and living in an expensive Assisted Care Facility. For me, I really don't want any inheritance, I just don't want my children to be passed over. I want this toxic behavior to have an end point, I don't want this to be her legacy. I also want to demonstrate good behavior to my kids and be a role model they can actually look up to. To weaponize the will, all the money my Dad saved for retirement, is just so wrong.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Goldcrest!

I am grateful to read you this morning and to see you are doing well, and sleeping well.

I was thinking of joining a support group in my area, in an effort to meet like-minded friends. There is none in my area, sadly. Have you looked for one in yours? It saddens me to know you feel isolated and I wish I could grab a coffee with you, sometimes! I know it won't be too long before you meet a friend though, the universe has a way to send us what we need when we need it, as long as we put our energy toward healing. Indeed, you survived through so much, and still managed to come out of it a compassionate, loving person. And so, I know you will be alright.

My mother can withstand ignoring me for long periods... Once I reduce contact, she "cuts me off" in an effort to regain control. We both know I am the one keeping her at bay, but it makes her feel better to believe she is the one cutting contact off... Depending on your mother, she might never even try to contact you, just to keep the illusion of control. But then... It doesn't really matter in the end, how they deal with us asserting ourselves. What truly matters is that you are sleeping better.

Hugs 

[Goldcrest]

Riv3rW0lf Such a lovely message and yes I would love to grab that coffee with you, if only we were in the same country LOL. I wish I could find a group like this one where people met face to face. How lovely would it be to spend time with people who simply got it. I am grateful for the virtual friends I have made here though. How have you been Riv3rW0lf ? I think my mother is doing as yours does and telling the flying monkeys it is her decision. My brother tells me things which is helpful/not helpful but I hear her last comment, to my brother, was "dad always said she wasn't right in the head".

I look at it all now with a new pair of eyes and I can see that as soon as my dad died and I challenged her that first time (when I got angry and told her my truth) she knew she needed me gone. I feel she is more NPD than I realised and calling her out probably signalled the end for me. Everything she has done since dad died has been designed to destroy my mental health.

madeline7 I have noticed a great feeling of peace, and a sort of gentleness, I can't explain it and I feel kinder, more willing to see the good. I was so resentful and dark before.I get it with the low contact and it makes sense with your mum being elderly. I had tried it with my mother high or low seemed to be causing me horrendous stress. She wanted me gone, the very thing she feared (abandonment) she was determined to cause. Once I knew she was lying about me behind my back, and some really damning lies, I had met my limit.

[Goldcrest]

Mothers day in the uk today and I feel okay...I think. I get the odd wave of sadness and am avoiding social media but I stayed true to no contact and I know this will have been a blow to my mother today. I suspect she thought I would send a card or call because I don't think she can allow herself to believe I manage without her.

I know when the sadness comes it is simply for a fragment of her, the waif that I would have compassion for. I don't know if anyone else was like this but I couldn't handle it when bad things did happen to her. If someone else exposed her Narcissistic ways I would feel deeply sorry for her and feel her shame - does that make sense? I've always been like that, even the most awful people, if I see them shamed I can't bear it. When dad was in the hospital and my mum was awful to the care staff, she caught one of the nurses miming insanity and pointing in her direction (thinking she wasn't looking), I felt ashamed on her behalf. So wierdly although I want people to see her for her scheming I still hate to think of her suffering as a result. Just an observation and at least with no contact I won't be exposed to it.

The bottom line is, she was completely unstable in her personality and once I saw the extent of her damaging lies about me then I knew I couldn't continue in a relationship with her. The way her friend treated me that last weekend (a family friend I have known my whole life) really shook me up. They bullied me so badly that it still rattles me to remember it.

Thanks for reading.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Mothers day in the uk today and I feel okay...I think. I get the odd wave of sadness and am avoiding social media but I stayed true to no contact and I know this will have been a blow to my mother today. I suspect she thought I would send a card or call because I don't think she can allow herself to believe I manage without her.

I know when the sadness comes it is simply for a fragment of her, the waif that I would have compassion for. I don't know if anyone else was like this but I couldn't handle it when bad things did happen to her. If someone else exposed her Narcissistic ways I would feel deeply sorry for her and feel her shame - does that make sense? I've always been like that, even the most awful people, if I see them shamed I can't bear it. When dad was in the hospital and my mum was awful to the care staff, she caught one of the nurses miming insanity and pointing in her direction (thinking she wasn't looking), I felt ashamed on her behalf. So wierdly although I want people to see her for her scheming I still hate to think of her suffering as a result. Just an observation and at least with no contact I won't be exposed to it.

It makes sense. Maybe because that is your own root emotion? Is it possible part of you feel ashamed, and so, when you see someone else going through this feeling, you feel deep compassion?

It is not unusual after a long period of abuse and neglect to start feeling ashamed of oneself... You start thinking something must be wrong with you because why else would your own mother treats you like this... And so you feel ashamed of yourself, without truly knowing why...

You deserved love and validation, and it was stolen from you. You had to fill that void, one way or another.

The bottom line is, she was completely unstable in her personality and once I saw the extent of her damaging lies about me then I knew I couldn't continue in a relationship with her. The way her friend treated me that last weekend (a family friend I have known my whole life) really shook me up. They bullied me so badly that it still rattles me to remember it.

Thanks for reading.

What happened? If you feel like sharing. Did they bully you because your weren't in contact with her anymore?

[Goldcrest]

Ahhh Riv3rW0lf thank you for responding. The weekend I was talking about was the weekend when I made the decision never to see her again. I had been scheduled to visit but weeks before my mother started on about my dads Will and threatening to disinherit me. I am co-excecutor with her and she needed me to sign some papers to release money to her. She was being so secretive about stuff and so paranoid that it really triggered me. I secretly recorded her talking with her friend and was horrified at what they were saying about me. Anyway long story short, I was bullied into signing papers, I had requested to take the papers away over night so I could read through them properly but the scene my mother made at the house (with my mothers friend, a flying monkey enabling her) was so awful. It was just one of those crazy, almost hallucinogenic experiences you have with BPD/NPD parents that leave you feeling so disturbed and confused.

Today, I have been very aware of that last weekend. The last weekend I will have ever seen my mother and part of me, despite everything, feels sad. I think of the daughter I know would be to a good enough mother, what I can offer. It breaks my heart that I never got to be that person. I tried, I really tried for my mother but she simply wanted to destroy me. She pushed me to do the very thing she is terrified of. To leave her alone.

Hope you are having a peaceful weekend Riv3rW0lf

[Ellala]

I think you are incredibly strong and just want to send positive energy your way.  I too can sometimes feel fear…. cause there feels like SO much to work on… to get to the place where I want to be. It definitley  sounds like you are moving in the right direction and I trust you'll create security and stability in your life. Getting a good night's sleep is  a great foundation.

I hear you on those contradictory feelings… I have felt similar things re: compassion… while it feels like the core of a compassionate caring heart…not wanting to see someone I care about suffer...  I wonder if it's wanting to protect a loved one from the consequences of their own actions though…. (more like a care taking/codependent behavior)? I have noticed many conflicting feelings in myself in response to pwPD.

Glad to hear you got clarity about your mother and your relationship with her. So sorry for the pain that it caused and that last weekend's encounter was so disturbing. Definitely sounds like your mom's fear created the exact experience she was afraid of. My pwPD was an ex partner, and his fears too pushed me away and caused a breakup. It's really sad to see someone you love create so much unnecessary  pain… for themselves and the people closest to them.   

I am sorry for the loss of your relationship with your mom. How heartbreaking… to be denied the love and nurturing you deserve. Really tragic.

Perhaps at some point you will meet a nice older woman who has a desire for a daughter in her life  (I have a few surrogate parents myself).

To a nurturing week ahead ❤️
El

[Goldcrest]

Ellala Thank you for your response   I have been a month no contact with my mum now, it was a weekend a month ago (I'm not being very clear LOL) that I last saw her and I knew today would be hard. It has been easier than I expected though. The first week of no contact I was sick with thoughts of not contacting her, even just a card, on mothers day. I just see it all as futile now. I can't go back, nothing will change. I have tried for so many years and endured so much pain and abuse from her. My brother is still in contact but thankfully we didn't speak today. My brother and I were no contact for 14 years! because of how my mother triangulated us after an incident one summer. My brother tends to tell me what my mother is saying about me and in someways it helps to keep me strong on the no contact but in other ways it just opens up the wound again.

I agree on the co-dependent behaviour reference you made. I know I am always trying to look after peoples feelings. I am the girl that smiles at strangers in the street, I can't help it. If I make eye-contact I smile. I know my compulsion to be nice has got me into difficulties with abuse over the years.

I think what saddens me is sometimes, I would see a fragment of my mum, that I wanted to hold on to and I wished she would just stop being so manipulative and abusive. I wished she could just stay nice, consistently nice so we could make a few memories together but she would always, always spoil it.

thank you again.  

[Ellala]

Oh, I get your timeline now. I am glad you are feeling better after a month of distance.

My brother tends to tell me what my mother is saying about me and in someways it helps to keep me strong on the no contact but in other ways it just opens up the wound again.

It must be hard with your brother relaying what your mother says about you. Do you want him to share what she says about you?

I think what saddens me is sometimes, I would see a fragment of my mum, that I wanted to hold on to and I wished she would just stop being so manipulative and abusive. I wished she could just stay nice, consistently nice so we could make a few memories together but she would always, always spoil it.

I hear you. Those "good" parts are such a hook. It is sad… because it appears the capacity to be loving and kind is there… but then just get buried under manipulative tactics… making a stable relationship impossible. 

El

[Goldcrest]

Hey Ellala, the difficulty I face with my brother is he can be quite volatile, he has his own anger issues and if I am honest I am a bit afraid of upsetting him. We were kept apart by my mother for 14 years but also because their was a "situation" that happened when I was visiting him one summer (he lives abroad) and he was verbally abusive to me. It was so bad that I was shaking in fear. My brother for years was avoidant about our childhood, he preferred to pretend it didn't matter. Now he is very much in touch with the abuse and suffers with nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks and sleep paralysis. He finds it hard to approach this stuff and doesn't want to seek therapy for himself. I feel a bit responsible now for helping him, I feel like I have to listen to his hurt because he has no one else who can tolerate it. He tells me about the phone calls with my mum as they can be so distressing sometimes and I don't want to let him down. The problem is now when I talk to him I can get very dysregulated and stressed again. So no contact with my mother is working on the one hand but I am still suffering a bit when I speak with my brother because he will tell me what she says.

[Ellala]

Oh, I hear you. Is your brother younger or older?

My brother has some anger issues too… he has also been verbally abusive towards me.  He also didn't look at his childhood for a while. We had a long time of no contact as well, but not because of my mom. I have listened to him share his struggles on the phone, and would often get off the phone in tears or feeling really upset.

My relationship with my brother has probably been my most challenging… as his older sister I feel somewhat responsible to "look after" him and help him… but at a certain point, I realized I needed to learn to trust him to navigate his own healing journey… one which he may or may not make it through (he also suffers from addictions).  My brother has sought out therapy… he will get better for a while and then falls back into intense suffering.  We are both learning to create boundaries in that relationship. The childhood abuse created a trauma bond and I have started to see that the relationship can activate both of our wounds.

Do you think you could ask your brother not to share what she says about you? Do you think he could honor that boundary?

I totally get feeling responsible and not wanting to let your brother down bc you are the only one who can listen to his hurt. Do you think he wants to heal or get better? At a certain point, I said to my brother, I am here for you, I don't have anymore time to listen about the problems though (this was after hours of conversations going over the same issues), I do have time to talk about solutions. We didn't speak much at all for 6 years, but he did start getting therapy. 
My T said that healthy relationships are solutions oriented.
 
If he chose to get help and seek T, that seems like a win win… he would be able to share with someone who is trained to help him and you wouldn't feel like the burden was all on you… it is a touchy subject though. Do you have a T? Has T been helpful for you?

[Goldcrest]

Hey Ellala, it's complicated with my brother. He is older than me and as children we were very close, a sort of bond of shared misery. I don't really feel there was ever a scapegoat or golden child, my brother was sexually abused by my mum and something he only recently shared but something I sort of knew but couldn't bare to join the dots.

My relationship with my brother has probably been my most challenging… as his older sister I feel somewhat responsible to "look after" him and help him… but at a certain point, I realized I needed to learn to trust him to navigate his own healing journey… one which he may or may not make it through (he also suffers from addictions).  My brother has sought out therapy… he will get better for a while and then falls back into intense suffering.  We are both learning to create boundaries in that relationship. The childhood abuse created a trauma bond and I have started to see that the relationship can activate both of our wounds.

I get this! my role in the family was always to try and keep the peace, I was always desperate for everything to be okay and to stop my mother or my brother from becoming upset. My mum clashed with my brother a lot, my brother was angry from a young age and used to do things that would enrage her (which of course makes sense now) I was always trying to pacify situations, my dad simply stayed away at work till very late at night. I had this weird thing where I felt like I could feel other peoples pain? I guess a sort of strong empathic response. I used to cry about my brother but I might have simply been projecting my own pain on to him.

My brother is very angry and any attempt to approach either his anger or hurt, results in a shame response. Both of us I believe have borderline traits, DBT has helped me massively and many years of therapy but my brother is only really coming to terms with all this, he still talks of memories surfacing - it blows my mind that someone can bury stuff. I have always been the truth teller and have almost been too much the other way and never let go of the negative memories, replayed them so my mother can always be held accountable.

If he chose to get help and seek T, that seems like a win win… he would be able to share with someone who is trained to help him and you wouldn't feel like the burden was all on you… it is a touchy subject though. Do you have a T? Has T been helpful for you?

I did have a T but I had to stop due to low income. I did speak with my brother yesterday and it seems he is speaking to my mother less often, since I went no contact with her. We chatted about our childhoods but he didn't tell me anything my mother had said recently which was a relief.

Ellala, I know you mentioned your ex-partner was PD, did you have a PD parent also?

[Ellala]

Hi Goldcrest,
thanks for clarifying and sharing.  I understand more, how complicated and sensitive the situation would be given your brother's sexual abuse and your family dynamics.

I get this! my role in the family was always to try and keep the peace, I was always desperate for everything to be okay and to stop my mother or my brother from becoming upset. My mum clashed with my brother a lot, my brother was angry from a young age and used to do things that would enrage her (which of course makes sense now) I was always trying to pacify situations, my dad simply stayed away at work till very late at night. I had this weird thing where I felt like I could feel other peoples pain? I guess a sort of strong empathic response. I used to cry about my brother but I might have simply been projecting my own pain on to him.

I am so sorry, that sounds really tough.
Good for you for stepping out of your role.
Now your brother will have to renegotiate his role.

In exploring my relationship with my brother with a T, my T shared a perspective on my crying that gave some insight… that part of the sadness/tears could be over the loss of my brother/our relationship... that I wouldn't/couldn't have the kind of relationship with him that I desired. It's true, despite how much I care for my brother, we don't have the kind of relationship I'd like and I am not sure that it is possible.

I am not sure there is ONE reason for the tears… perhaps it was a mix of feeling the sadness my brother could not express himself (that was buried under the anger), the sadness I felt for his suffering, and for the loss of the brother - sister relationship I was denied. 

My brother is very angry and any attempt to approach either his anger or hurt, results in a shame response. Both of us I believe have borderline traits, DBT has helped me massively and many years of therapy but my brother is only really coming to terms with all this, he still talks of memories surfacing - it blows my mind that someone can bury stuff. I have always been the truth teller and have almost been too much the other way and never let go of the negative memories, replayed them so my mother can always be held accountable.

Hopefully your brother will learn through your example… of getting T.   

I think for some people, when the trauma is so horrific, the mind's defense / coping mechanism is denial and the memories just get buried. 
On the other hand, I like you, have tended toward replaying the memories. The mind/memory is so fascinating… once I shared with my mom a traumatic memory that, in my mind, was something that had happened many times. She said that it only happened once (I believe her), and I realized how the mind can create it's own narrative of the past. 

I did have a T but I had to stop due to low income. I did speak with my brother yesterday and it seems he is speaking to my mother less often, since I went no contact with her. We chatted about our childhoods but he didn't tell me anything my mother had said recently which was a relief.

Glad that you were able to connect with your brother without any more harmful words being relayed from your mom.
I know the online T platform I use has a discount based on income…If you are interested, I can share it's name. It sounds like you have made good progress with the work you have done so far.

Ellala, I know you mentioned your ex-partner was PD, did you have a PD parent also?

I think my father did have a PD, or at least severe trauma, but my parents divorced when I was two and he was not super present in my life (although I loved him dearly). I saw him sporadically until I was 12, and that was the last time I saw him. He would bail on his commitments with my brother and I, was super impulsive, unstable, reckless, and charismatic. Probably he had BP or BPD.

I don't think my mom has a PD, although I have been noticing lately she has some behavioral patterns that are not so healthy… like she will get kind of nasty to me(and my step dad too) when she is tired/stressed. She acts closed, hostile, like a victim, or as if she doesn't care for us or the relationship. The next day she always apologizes.
I brought it to her attention that despite the apologies, the behaviors are reoccurring…   
and she said she is working on them… she also addressed some of the things that trigger her, so I feel we have an open communication and she genuinely cares for me and is committed to improving our relationship. We are able to share and listen to each other's experiences and honor one another's needs, which feels like a healthy workable relationship to me. She was bar far the more stable and loving of my two parents.

I think you mentioned you are separated from your husband? Was that by choice? Has the space been beneficial?

[Methuen]

So, as the title says it has been nearly a month of no contact and I am feeling much better. The first week was the worst, I really felt very vulnerable that first week.

Hi Goldcrest.  I am glad to hear you are doing better.   I can relate to this improvement which has come with "space" away from your mom.  I have been struggling with my aging and increasingly decrepit uBPD mom for years, as she demanded more and more of me while getting meaner and more narcissistic.  I used every skill I learned on from this forum and through T and books, and...well..."impossible" is the only word I can think of.  Then I was offered a job which meant I would have to come out of retirement.  When I told mom I had a new job, she went all out nuclear and raged about how selfish I was.  The first 2-3 weeks after the nuclear episode was the worst (like you), but slowly I have settled into the job, which is turning out to be a really rewarding new way to utilize my skills.  I've been working for 2 months now, and can't believe how much better I am feeling.  I'm finding "me" again.  I have found my freedom - for now.

I'm not NC.  I'm LC.  I see or talk to her about once a week (this is very LC for me as we live in the same community and she is used to daily contact of some sort).  For now, my H has taken over grocery shopping for her.  I tend to bring her "treats" - an ice cream cone from her favourite ice cream place, or recently it was a new comforter for her bed to replace her old one which she said was too heavy in weight.  It's like bringing treats to a toddler.  I do what works to keep myself feeling safe.

The relief is temporary for me.  She will fall again, or have a stroke, or some other medical emergency, and then it will all be back to square one, as the medical system (including emergency rooms) seem to assume they can just release mom to my care, and have announced this to me right in front of her in the past.  I have learned to say I can't meet her needs, so they have to arrange home care before releasing her from the hospital.  It doesn't go over well with mom and the crisis is nuclear again.  I wish I knew what to say to the emerg doctors so that I wasn't put in this awkward position.

I still have contact with my mom because she is frail, failing, and lives in my community.  The contact is now on my terms.  If I had gone NC with her, she would coil up like a python and strike for the kill.  The hate and vengeance would simply consume her up until whenever she passes one day.  I know this because this is how she has behaved with other estranged relationships in her life.  Strangely, that level of vengeance and determination can keep an old person energized for a long time as they near the end of their life.  So I maintain LC, often in the presence of my H, or if not, I bring her a "treat" to disarm her if I am alone.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in removing yourself from toxic relationships where there is no chance for change or improvement.  If I had known 30 years ago what I know now, my H and I would have moved our family away - far away.  Hindsight doesn't help me now, but I can empathize and appreciate why NC after a month has you feeling better.

I think it's great you have the awareness you have, and are healthy enough to create separation for yourself.

To weaponize the will, all the money my Dad saved for retirement, is just so wrong.

My mom has done this too.  It's a sign of their desperation.  They are just unable to comprehend that this behavior pushes us further away, or that it is even wrong.  They feel fully justified. 

If someone else exposed her Narcissistic ways I would feel deeply sorry for her and feel her shame - does that make sense?

I totally get it. I was like this too.  When I landed on this forum almost 3 years ago, some wise person told me "I needed to feel my own feelings, and not feel my mother's for her".  That hit me like a truck, because suddenly I had awareness that was what was happening!  Until that moment, I had no idea it wasn't normal. The solution that was offered at the time was to work on emotional detachment.  Three years later, I think I have had some success with that.  I have accepted that my mom is entitled to make her own terrible decisions, which affect her own health and safety, but where I live, the medical system says she has the right to do that.  Three years ago, my mom's terrible decisions would make me sick, and I would ruminate and feel so many unhealthy feelings, including feeling responsible to make her "feel better".  Just today she made another terrible decision, and it bothered me for about 3 minutes, at which point my H reminded me to "let it go", and so I distracted myself and successfully "let it go".  I don't think I could do that without having emotionally detached to the degree that I have.  So my suggestion for you, is to consider the advice I was given, and work on the emotional detachment piece.  Our mothers believe that their feelings should be our feelings.  They raised us to feel this.  In this way we were useful to them.  They could manipulate our feelings to make themselves feel better.  I have thought about all this, and have no idea what tools my mom used to accomplish enmeshing my feelings with hers.  But it's a messed up part of the BPD complex.  It is a relief now that I let myself feel my own feelings, and don't feel hers.  That was horrible to feel her feelings.  I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to feel your mom's shame or embarrassment or whatever for her.  It's not your job, and there is a way out of that.

As for the challenges with your brother, I am so sorry for all that suffering especially for him, but also for you.  My mom was trauma bonded with her siblings.  I grew up listening to them reshash the same stories over all the years I was growing up and living at home.  They always did it in front of me.  It didn't help them process or heal because the same stories would come up every time they got together.  Even as a teenager, I could see there was no progress.  I like what Elalla said about being solution focussed when listening and having these discussions with your brother.  Asking validating questions might be a tool to use to focus the conversation toward solutions, but I'm not sure if that could be helpful in your situation.  It isn't great if the conversations trigger you Goldcrest.  You do have to also consider what is best for your health and wellness - not just your brother's wellness.  It would be good if you could find a way to support him, without sacrificing your own well being.  Maybe listen for a bit, but when it starts to feel like too much, let him know that you're not feeling great, and ask if it's ok to take a break and talk about something else, so that your relationship also has plenty of reasons to leave you feeling positive after a talk.  You probably do this anyways, but perhaps redirection could be helpful for you as well as for him?

And now that you are NC with your mom, and have had enough time and space to start feeling better, you can dedicate yourself to taking care of you, and building some new beginnings.  I hope you have a good day today.

[Notwendy]

Methuen and Goldcrest-

I am glad you are both doing better with some space.

The only way I know how to deal with "weaponizing" a will is to let go of any expectations. For me, I didn't expect anything- I have always assumed if my mother had anything she wanted to leave to someone, it would be to the golden child in the family.

However, there were some sentimental items that belonged to my father and she knew I wanted them. She refused to give them to me, and I think in part it was fear that if she did, I wouldn't come to visit her.

It's sad that this kind of thing is the only relationship tools she seems to have to alleviate this fear. None of her children have had any intention of not seeing her and our reasons have nothing to do with what she owns. Ironically, had she chosen to give the sentimental items to me, it would have been a gesture of kindness and possibly helped our relationship but I don't think she's capable of that kind of empathy due to her own emotional struggles.

We have both cringed at the idea that everything Dad saved is now under her control and also feel it is a gift to us. We are grateful she has the means to hire people to help her. We also know she mismanages money and we want it to be there for her needs. We would have managed it ethically- but she has to be in total control. The other side of this is that, since she's left us out of this ( and won't disclose her situation) we have nothing to do with it. I think if we did, there'd be conflicted discussions with her.

It is sad to think she's elderly and alone for a lot of the time. This isn't what I would have wanted for an elderly parent. However, it's the path she set for herself. Every time we try to help, she becomes verbally and emotionally abusive and we are on the verge of tears around her. She either can't see this or knows it and enjoys this. Some of it seems deliberate. We didn't go NC, but try to manage LC.

[Methuen]

It is sad to think she's elderly and alone for a lot of the time. This isn't what I would have wanted for an elderly parent. However, it's the path she set for herself.

Exactly.

[zachira]

Goldcrest, Notwendy, Methuen, Madeline7, and others who regulary share their challenges on PSI with their dysfunctional hurtful family members:
Admiring your courage and the examples you are setting for so many of us, on how to manage such difficult dysfunctional family dynamics. You are helping the people on PSI and other people you are around by being examples and not continuing to enable bad behaviors. I often think of the people who have been so kind to me, by something as simple as look of sadness on their faces when I was mistreated as a child by my mother. You have wanted so much to make a difference with your family members, can you see that your empathy, the courage you are showing in the most difficult heartbreaking of situations and your generosity is making a positive impact on the lives of others in so many ways?

[Notwendy]

Thanks Zachira- we have all helped each other. I don't feel as if I am facing this alone. I have all of you to lean on and learn from. In addition, the ability to help others makes us feel less powerless. Even if it feels we can not make a difference for our BPD affected family members, we can make a difference for each other. Thank you for this kind message and all you do here! <3

[Methuen]

Thanks Zachira.  You have been one of many rocks of solid support on this forum that have helped me to navigate my ongoing journey.  Finding this forum was a blessing.  Sometimes I try to imagine where I would be if I hadn't found this site, and I just can't go there.  It's been life changing.

...the ability to help others makes us feel less powerless. Even if it feels we can not make a difference for our BPD affected family members, we can make a difference for each other.

This sums it up so well.  The irony is that we are able to help each other, we are able to support our friends and community members, but we are not able to help our own mothers.  It is such a painful truth, but if we do not accept it, we too fall prey to the effects of the disease.  Such is the nature of mental illness I guess.  I suspect the need to help others on this forum and elsewhere is at least partly driven by our inability to help our own mothers. We want to do good, but can't for our mothers, so we try to do good where we can elsewhere.

Thank you Zachira for your kindness, and support, and contributions to this remarkable community.



 

[madeline7]

Thank you Zachira for your thoughtfulness. It is reassuring to know the individuals on this board get it, and we have a supportive community on this site.

[Pilpel]

Congratulations!  I've been NC from my NPD SIL for over 2 1/2 years.  

There were some efforts to reconcile this past year, but they were pretty laughable.  When I finally went NC with her, she tried to flip the narrative and pronounce that she was going NC with me and set out her conditions.  (Again, laughable ... she wanted me to make a list of all the good things she's done for my parents, my brother and HER own kids.  No mention of my kids or me or my husband).  She had a lengthy email exchange over a period of months with my husband in her efforts to "reconcile."  When asked why she wanted to reconcile or what she saw as good about me, it was all very superficial.  She wants to reconcile for the sake of appearances.  So we can spend holidays together, holidays that she always makes stressful and weird. Or because it would be awkward to not reconcile when my parents (who are in their mid-90s) die and we have to see each other at a funeral.  For over ten years, I was on a constant treadmill of anxiety trying to deal with her.  And I used to spend days trying to respond to her emails, and I felt like a lawyer trying to make sure that I was honest, had strong boundaries, but not saying something that would cause more drama.  

Last winter she sent me a personal email apologizing "for her part" (yet putting a lot of blame on her husband).  A couple months later my brother made a couple of attempts to encourage me to reconcile.  (For the sake of the holidays, he said, when I asked what he saw as the outcome of a reconciliation.  I'm not sentimental about holidays, so ...). I thought of responding to the emails, but I always had something else that I preferred to do.  It's like I spent so many years trying to write her the perfect reasonable email that I'm just tapped out, even to respond to an apology.  I've had moments when I've wondered if maybe I should re-engage and try to reconcile.  She had a breakdown last winter, and got on medication. But just in this past week, she's had a couple of weird blow ups, where I was the target of her rants.  And all I can say is I'm glad not to be part of that!  She can rant against me all she wants now.  I don't care.

[Pilpel]

I know when the sadness comes it is simply for a fragment of her, the waif that I would have compassion for. I don't know if anyone else was like this but I couldn't handle it when bad things did happen to her. If someone else exposed her Narcissistic ways I would feel deeply sorry for her and feel her shame - does that make sense?

I totally get this!  I would feel embarrassed for my NPD SIL when we had email exchanges.  When I was in contact with her, my years were marked by crazy FOG-gy email exchanges.  Several upsetting emails a year.  She would get upset about the weirdest things.  And be so haughty.  And when she would write a crazy nonsense response, I would experience both a sense of anxiety and confusion and at the same time I would imagine how embarrassed she must be that she wrote this.  After awhile I realized that she wasn't feeling embarrassed by things she wrote at all.  She was very comfortable with re-imagining reality and saying the most absurd things.   And when it came to boundaries, I was crossing a boundary by imagining what I thought she was feeling or should be feeling.  Those are not my feelings to feel. 

I grew up being taught "do unto others as you would have them do to you."  So I thought being kind under all circumstances was what I wanted.  But at some point I started to listen to my inner dialogue.  "If I treated someone the way NPD SIL treated me, I would expect them to cut me off."  "I would not expect even my own children to stick around if I treated them the way SIL treats me."  So I realized that by continuing in contact with SIL, I wasn't treating SIL the way I thought I should be treated at all. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

I grew up being taught "do unto others as you would have them do to you."  So I thought being kind under all circumstances was what I wanted.  But at some point I started to listen to my inner dialogue.  "If I treated someone the way NPD SIL treated me, I would expect them to cut me off."  "I would not expect even my own children to stick around if I treated them the way SIL treats me."  So I realized that by continuing in contact with SIL, I wasn't treating SIL the way I thought I should be treated at all.  

Yes, yes, yes.

My mother would always use that against us : "Do unto others ... ", "Walk in their shoes." She expected from us nothing less than total empathy and understanding, and compassion and kindness. When she acted irrationally and mistreated us, and we felt anger and wanted to reply she would call us out because we weren't understanding enough to her tastes.

Anger was never welcomed in our house, when anger, well tamed and understood, is such a beautiful emotion, one of action, of decisiveness, of affirmation... She tried to extinct our anger, to the cost of our safety in the world. It set us up for abuse and intimidation. Took me a while to understand I needed my anger, anger is protection.  It is the little bell that goes off when I feel crossed, when something needs to be clarified or corrected.

 Absolutely, we should do unto others as we would have them do unto we ... The part that was always missing during my education was: but don't tolerate someone who is not also doing unto you what they would have you do unto them.

Never. Tolerate. Abuse.

[Goldcrest]

Pilpel, thank you for your comments and sorry for what you have been dealing with with your Sil.

But just in this past week, she's had a couple of weird blow ups, where I was the target of her rants.  And all I can say is I'm glad not to be part of that!  She can rant against me all she wants now.  I don't care.

This is where I am at now. My brother is in hospital after breaking a door in a rage - thats another story - and I am relived not to have to speak with my mother. I know my NC will be even more infuriating for her at this time because she would love to triangulate a scenario like this and to smear my brother to me.

The "Do unto others ... ", "Walk in their shoes." like both you and Riv3erW0lf I had this all my life too. I went to a catholic school at age 8 after my mother had a religious visitation, and she returned to Catholicism overnight and we went from no religion to this very full on one. The school was very strict with some nuns still teaching and the whole mantra of "treat others as you would like to be treated", was constant. I remember the nuns could be cruel and angry and I would cry about the hypocrisy of this.

The freedom from being dominated and manipulated can not be measured. I have never doubted my decision to go NC, sometimes it is scary but I can quickly remember why I am doing it. Knowing you are living to the moral code you believe and your values feels really good. Thanks for sharing Pilpel.

[Goldcrest]

Riv3rW0lf

Anger was never welcomed in our house, when anger, well tamed and understood, is such a beautiful emotion, one of action, of decisiveness, of affirmation... She tried to extinct our anger, to the cost of our safety in the world. It set us up for abuse and intimidation. Took me a while to understand I needed my anger, anger is protection.  It is the little bell that goes off when I feel crossed, when something needs to be clarified or corrected.

This is how I feel about anger now. I see it as a voice telling me to take heed and care for myself. Rather than react, I hold on to it and ask what is happening. I love that it is telling us about our boundaries. I never have felt a connection nor a right to my boundaries, it is almost exciting to learn about myself in this way.