BPD Spouse - First Post

[grootyoda]

Hi All,

I've read through this forum before to get a sense of support and understanding, but this is my first time actually posting. This is going to be a long one, but I want to be as thorough as I can be so that I'm not leaving out any relevant details.

My spouse has BPD traits and it is something we have had to navigate all throughout our relationship. She has always been pretty open about her diagnosis with me and I have even attended some of her therapy sessions with her. All in all, we were in a pretty good and manageable place when we got married after about two years of dating - our communication has historically been good, we handled the occasional "episode" with healthy doses of grace and accountability, and in general there was a good understanding of what our challenges were and how we needed to deal with them. I would not at all say that we handled every single thing perfectly, but in my opinion we were in a pretty good place to start planning our family.

Full disclosure - I was married once before for about three years to a woman - we divorced after our goals in life diverged pretty strongly over the last year of our marriage. I really wanted to start a family, she no longer wanted to have kids, and we mutually decided we would be healthier and happier moving on separately.

Some Family Background
My family, particularly my mother and sibling (who is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns), have always been a solid source of social support for me and for us. My father died when I was in my teens, and both my sibling and I have dealt with some depression and anxiety in the wake of that on and off ever since (in my late 30's now). We've always maintained a strong connection with one another and that "constancy" has been something I could always rely on regardless of what else was going on in my life. I would describe my upbringing as being healthy and loving in the face of some tragic circumstances. If I had to describe one shortcoming in my family of origin dynamic, I would say that we can be a little conflict averse at times, which can admittedly delay conflict resolution.

Her family of origin is pretty messy. Her father and mother divorced when she was very young and had opposite but equally toxic parenting approaches. Her dad was very reactionary and authoritarian to the point of being physically and emotionally abusive. Her mother (deceased) had substance abuse issues that resulted in general neglect. I do not like visiting with her family at all, which is sometimes a point of tension between us. There is a lot of drinking and accompanying chaos involved in those visits to the point where we both feel like we might be the only adults present. The best case scenario is that we will end up spending most of the trip being casually ignored. If I had my way we probably would not maintain contact with that side of the family at all, but I understand that is not a realistic expectation.

Current situation
We got pregnant right before the beginning of COVID, during which time my wife's place of employment closed, leaving me as the primary breadwinner and her as the de facto stay-at-home mother. Initially this worked ok, but over the last six months it has become something of a disaster. Spending time at home being responsible for our child, particularly as she has transitioned from the Infant to the Toddler stage, just seems to trigger my spouse to the point where she regularly yells and/or curses at both me and at our child by the late afternoon. Regardless of the number of days she is actually responsible for childcare, or the amount of backup care from my retired mother she receives, inevitably this issue continues without getting noticeably better. Although I have the option, I currently avoid working from home for the most part because maintaining healthy work/family boundaries during the workday has proven nearly impossible. By mid afternoon - on the days my spouse is responsible for our child - the calls to get off work early or take a break and help with  the kid start trickling in around mid-afternoon and usually result in some variety of meltdown by the time I actually do get off work. When it gets close to that time I can physically feel the stress creeping into my chest and I can feel my fingers start shaking, particularly if I have seen/heard the early warning signs starting up.

Recently this came to a head while she was visiting with my sibling and their spouse at my mom's home while I was at work. They witnessed at her yelling and cursing at our child during the mid to late afternoon. Later, when I arrived to have dinner with the family, they heard her yelling and cursing at me about how tired she was of taking care of "this kid". She threatened to go home (I responded by telling her that was her decision to make, although I'm sure my frustration was pretty evident. Ultimately she ended up sleeping in the living room while the rest of us had dinner together. The next day I got a somber call from my sibling about how disturbed they were by her behavior towards our child, which they described as being borderline emotionally abusive. I have felt similarly about these kinds of outbursts for a while now but (as tends to happen with NPDs from what I understand) I had really questioned my own perception of events until that conversation. My sibling explained that they wanted to say something, but they were concerned about how my spouse would react and wanted to avoid a situation where she might leave with our child in the state she appeared to be in. While they are pretty understanding about the realities of BPD, they made it clear to me that neither my sibling or their spouse want to be around my spouse without me present as of right now in case this happens again. While my sibling would like to discuss what happened with my spouse directly in the future, they are concerned about events being distorted when they are recalled back to me (which is a valid concern based on my experience) and insisted that I be present for that conversation.

After talking to my sibling, my spouse could easily tell that I was shaken (BPD intuition is a very real thing), so I did end up sharing with her what we talked about in terms of her behavior causing discomfort and being perceived as potential emotional abuse. While this was pretty hard for her to hear, her initial response seemed like a pretty receptive one. She accepted that she was responsible for her behavior and that it was not others' responsibility to prevent the behavior, nor a fair expectation that they should know exactly how to respond to it. She also acknowledged that my sibling probably did the best thing they knew to do in the situation and that their concern was a valid one that she needed to take to heart.

The next morning, however, was a different story. She was angry that my sibling talked to me instead of her, and accused my family of being just as bad as hers. She called out that if they really wanted to be supportive they'd ask what's wrong and immediately help her out instead of distancing themselves when she rages out, then "talking PLEASE READ about her behind her back". During all of this, I did my best to be mindful of the JADE lessons - rather than defend my family or anything like that, I tried to recognize that the situation made her feel embarrassed and ostracized and those were completely natural feelings to have. At the same time, I stuck to my stance that the core issue is her yelling and cursing at anyone, particularly our child. This push and pull has gone on for a few days now, with comments from her including things like "you know you guys tend to exaggerate things sometimes" and "you know lots of people yell occasionally and it isn't that big a deal". My response to these kinds of comments has boiled down to "I'm not going to go there, you know where I stand on this." To say that has been a tough place for me to sit emotionally would be an understatement. While I certainly want to support my wife in her recovery from her own traumatic upbringing, I just don't feel like I can ignore what I'm seeing and hearing.

Money is another tense issue for us. I strive to be disciplined about setting and living by a budget that is sustainable and helps us work towards long term financial goals. I do like to buy nice things on occasion (I recently invested in a standing desk for my work from home days, for instance), but I take the approach of setting money aside and foregoing smaller "me" purchases to save up for these. Her spending habits have never been great, and we have worked together at that with some success, but the impulse and boredom buying regularly gets out of control and results in us accumulating numerous little things (trinkets, cheap tech gadgets, random decorations) that we have no real use or need for. Most of this stuff inevitably ends up in storage and before she eventually just gives it away. Last year I tried putting all our money into a joint account - which resulted in us regularly going well over budget. I've recently reverted to a hybrid of joint spending for things like bills and groceries, with the remainder splitting into separate accounts for my spouse and I. This works a little better, but it tends to get very tense towards the middle of the month when my spouse has burnt through her money and starts spending more out of the joint account on unplanned purchases, which typically leads to us having very limited spending power the last week or so of each month (regardless of how much money is actually budgeted out for the month) . She has accused me of being too controlling about the money. This point of conflict is very difficult for me to sort through because, although I can see her point, she gets impatient and checks out any time I try to set aside time for us to actually sit down and work through our finances, budgeting, or spending practices together. These conversations usually end with some version of "I trust you to handle the budget, just tell me what I'm allowed to spend". I've mentioned that this is effectively her asking me to control her spending, and the cycle starts all over again. Because she tends to act out by impulse shopping, it is getting very hard for me to find a balance on this issue that makes everyone feel like their needs and concerns are being respected.

There are other problems I could probably go into, but there's already a lot to unpack here. I guess my three main areas where I am actively seeking feedback would be:

1) How do I work through an ongoing, consistent response to the yelling/cursing issue? Now that my family is raising concerns, I feel like I am in pretty tricky waters. The bottom line is that I want to be empathetic and supportive, but I absolutely do not want to reinforce the behavior or expose my child to it if it can be avoided.

2) We've mutually recognized that staying at home with a child is a horrible fit for my spouse. She is in the process of going back to work full time and we have already enrolled our child in a very reputable preschool. I am cautiously optimistic that this will help with the situation we are in right now, both in terms of the lashing out and boredom/impulse spending. My concern, however, is that I could just be deluding myself thinking that this change will actually help. My instinct is that external changes can make space for change, but they will not accomplish anything unless she really commits to doing the work around her own self-control and reactivity issues. I guess I just want to hear from other folks about what "realistic" expectations would look like here.

3) Does anyone have something resembling a realistic approach for budgeting and finances with a BPD partner? Any practices that are effective and make both partners feel like they have an equal say in financial decisions?

Thanks for reading, I really appreciate the chance to talk about this stuff in a safe place.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

People often tend to parent the way they were brought up. It seems likely that she thinks yelling at a child is acceptable to a degree. I certainly don’t hold that position, and am in agreement with you that this is a very unpleasant way for your child to grow up. Perhaps there’s a hope that she can see that replicating the circumstances of her childhood is not ideal.

Do you have a therapist to help you navigate these issues? I hope you find one who is experienced with personality disorders—that’s an important thing to consider when looking for a therapist.

Full time work would certainly alleviate your child from wanton verbal abuse during the day, so I think this is a good idea. Getting buy-in from your spouse about controlling her emotions is an entirely different matter.

Now that she’s been “exposed” by your family for being out of control, there’s likely a lot of shame she’s feeling. Though feeling that is unlikely to result in positive change. Is she still in therapy? And is her therapist well-versed in BPD?

I think you’ve managed to create an acceptable financial strategy already. The only thing I’d suggest is that she not have full access to the joint account and that you pay recurring monthly charges electronically. She’s shown herself not to be trustworthy.

[grootyoda]

Thanks for weighing in. Your response about finances was very affirming and helped me feel less conflicted.

Regarding therapy - we both have our own therapists that we see. Her therapist does specifically work with BPD and has been pretty good over the years. I’ve gone with her several times over the years, especially if something my spouse is bringing back from therapy regarding my role sounds “off”. Usually when I go in with her the stories get cleared up and I come away feeling like reality has been un-distorted. Wise mind is a frequent topic, and I’ve been working on cultivating that as part of my partnering role.

My therapist is much more general and doesn’t like dealing with BPD - he’s a little more skeptical about long term prognoses than my spouse’s therapist, so we mostly try to stick to working on how I manage boundaries and maintain my own self-care.

We have not seen a dedicated couples therapist together, but we recently got some references from her therapist about people in the area who are trained in DBT and/or other BPD oriented therapies. We’ve narrowed it down to one or two most likely candidates, but have not scheduled yet - I want to make that a priority once my spouse’s health benefits at her new job are settled.

I think you are dead on about the “exposure” factor. I think that, in her head, my spouse is having difficulty with the fact that her own behavior is responsible for how others see her, not anything anyone else says. By refusing to explain anything away or apologize for her, I feel like I’ve taken a pretty big burden off myself, but it also means that they know pretty much what goes on in our house now, which has upped the anxiety on her end. It’s a very tricky dynamic that I’m still figuring out.

[Cat Familiar]

The important thing is to not protect her from the consequences of her behavior. Sounds like you’ve got a good handle on that.

[bgpowell7]

I wish I could offer help, but the best I have is empathy. I was dealing with the same struggle. You and I have a similar upbringing and so do our wives. We had a child born in Dec 2019 and had to deal with the impact of COVID and being new parents all at once.

The situation exasperated her bpd, which neither of us knew she had until thigs got bad. She would frequently scream at our son to the point where myself or others would have to intervene.

Unfortunately, she was having an affair and a lot of the shame and darkness around that was the fuel to the fire. We are now separated but as far as I know, the lack of tension around us and the situation has allowed her room to breathe and I believe since there aren't as many triggers, she is managing her emotions better.

So my advice would be to limit the triggers and stressful environments as much as possible. Best I got.

[zondolit]

Welcome, grootyoda!

Regarding your family witnessing your spouse's disregulation and mistreatment of your child, I'd focus on this:

I had really questioned my own perception of events until that conversation.

While it is really uncomfortable to have this "in the open" with your family of origin and have to deal with the push-back from your spouse, overcoming our own tendency to deny or trivialize the dysfunction is such an important initial step.

[alterK]

Hi groot and welcome to the forum. You are clearly in a tough situation with no easy answers. It's common for someone with a personality disorder to de-compensate or lose their adjustment when there's a new addition to their family (in my case it was the arrival of a grandchild). Also for their emotions to roller-coaster: awful one day, and calm the next.

I suggest that your first priority needs to be your kid. Emotional abuse leaves marks that are difficult to erase, and children have few defenses. You're probably right that your W is carrying on with the kind of parenting she received, but that doesn't make it ok for your child. You never know when verbal abuse can degenerate into physical harm. It's good that you have found daycare, and that your W is possibly getting a job.

Both you are your W, although you are suffering, have adult coping mechanisms that may not work optimally, but are still superior to those of a child. An adult can leave the house when they want to, but a toddler can't. The last thing you would want would be to see your kid pass on that kind of abusive behavior as they get older.

[grootyoda]

Thanks for all the kind words and advice. My child started her first day of full time daycare and my pwBPD started her first day of work at a new full time job. Everything is still feeling pretty weird - we had a conversation last night about how drained I was feeling from the buildup of recent trigger moments resulting in my pwBPD saying mean/hurtful things to me (or at the least things I perceive as mean and hurtful).

I knew how the conversation was going to go if I started opening up about how I was feeling, but she was pretty insistent that I talk to her about what's going on with me. I told her I was feeling run down and burnt out, and that I just really needed her to be empathetic about that. This immediately turned to an argument about how tired she is of me being upset and it being her fault. She told me she feels like I need to own my part in contributing to the negativity through my criticisms and my tendency to withdraw to my home office on weeknights. To be completely fair, I tend to offer constructive criticism more often than is really productive, and that's something I need to work on. The hard part is that it's hard to sort out "my part" in all this when it feels like all I'm ever doing from sun up until sun down is trying to keep some semblance of structure and order intact.

By the time I've put our child to bed, all I really want to do is retreat to my space and either play games with my friend group, read a book, or watch an episode of one of my shows. Unfortunately she thinks that is a problem too - that I'm addicted to games and ignoring her because of my "addiction" (when the reality is that most nights I just don't really have the mental or emotional energy for more BPD gymnastics and would rather spend some time with friends).

I guess the long and short of it is that I'm coming away from conversations like this wondering if I'm being gaslit or not. There could very well be some validity to some of what she says, but I don't really know how to disentangle it from all of her stuff. Does that make any kind of sense?

[Cat Familiar]

People with BPD generally have a profound lack of empathy, the ability to understand someone else’s experience. They do have the capacity for sympathy, to feel bad for another’s suffering.

Therefore it gets confusing for us *nons*. We’d like to explain our emotional state and have them truly know what it feels like to be us, and in particular the impact their behaviors can have upon us.
 
Unfortunately as you’ve seen, this is perceived by them as an attack on them. This inability to empathize is truly a deficit in a close relationship, but knowing that, and not trying to find understanding when it’s unlikely to be there, can help us avoid arguments. Do you have friends or family with whom you can share these feelings? If not, many people in BPD relationships can find wonderful support though having a therapist. These relationships are not easy, and even therapists with BPD clients often seek therapy for feeling burned out.

What I’ve learned about “constructive criticism” with a BPD spouse—-DON’T   More often than not, it will start an argument.

[PeteWitsend]

...

What I’ve learned about “constructive criticism” with a BPD spouse—-DON’T   More often than not, it will start an argument.

Right.  They only hear what they want to hear.  And the Non-BPDer saying "I don't like this thing you're doing, and am asking you nicely to please stop" translates as "I don't like YOU and am going to leave," which triggers their abandonment issues, which triggers their fight response, and you're off to the races.

grootyoda, other than the non-binary brother, your story is remarkably similar to mine.  Reading your narrative, I could have predicted your spouse's reaction every.single.time. 

I feel for you. 

[PeteWitsend]

...
1) How do I work through an ongoing, consistent response to the yelling/cursing issue? Now that my family is raising concerns, I feel like I am in pretty tricky waters. The bottom line is that I want to be empathetic and supportive, but I absolutely do not want to reinforce the behavior or expose my child to it if it can be avoided.

2) We've mutually recognized that staying at home with a child is a horrible fit for my spouse. She is in the process of going back to work full time and we have already enrolled our child in a very reputable preschool. I am cautiously optimistic that this will help with the situation we are in right now, both in terms of the lashing out and boredom/impulse spending. My concern, however, is that I could just be deluding myself thinking that this change will actually help. My instinct is that external changes can make space for change, but they will not accomplish anything unless she really commits to doing the work around her own self-control and reactivity issues. I guess I just want to hear from other folks about what "realistic" expectations would look like here.

3) Does anyone have something resembling a realistic approach for budgeting and finances with a BPD partner? Any practices that are effective and make both partners feel like they have an equal say in financial decisions?  ...

To answer your questions in turn, here are my responses/suggestions.  Bear in mind I eventually threw in the towel and got divorced, so take this all with a grain of salt.

For me, there were two main points of contention: a). BPDxw was intentionally (she actually admitted it once, though of course later denied it) trying to alienate me from my family and friends.  She would put roadblocks up in front of my mom coming to visit our daughter, and would pick angry fights with other family members when they'd visit (always on the last day right before they'd leave) so as to discourage them from coming back.  For me it was a question of whether I'd go along with this, knowing it wasn't actually going to solve anything, and she would and did continue to pick fights on other things, even if I cut my family members out of my life.  b). our daughter was old enough to understand her parents were fighting, and I could see it affected her.  Almost all the advice I received from third parties was to leave.  There were two reasons underpinning this advice: first the "better to come from a broken house than live in one" analogy, and second, the idea that by staying and continuing to take the abuse and name-calling and accusations from my XW, I was modeling for my D that was acceptable, and she should tolerate that in her own r/s.  

The only concern I had with leaving was what would happen to my daughter, left alone with BPDxw during her times of possession, and would she succeed in driving a wedge between my daughter and I.  My calculus was: I couldn't control the things my BPDxw did and said about me.  And while if I divorced, our daughter would be with BPDxw 24/7 during her periods of possession, at least she would be with me the other times, and I could model stability, love, and how to behave for her those times.  It would be a break from the chaos.  But if I stayed, there were no breaks for our daughter or I.  

so here are my answers:
1) Forget about the word "consistent" here, unless you're referring to conflict.  There's nothing consistent with pwBPD, except conflict.  

If your concern is to protect yourself and your child from her rages, the only real solution is to remove yourselves - temporarily - until she calms down.  If she could control her temper to begin with, she wouldn't be BPD.  The problem is, you picking up your child and leaving the room or the house is likely to - or could  - trigger a more aggressive response from her.  so now instead of just getting yelled at, your wife is following you two around, raging, possibly getting more aggressive than mere words, throwing things, etc.

You may find that it's not possible to really address this; your child will be too young to talk about it & understand what's going on for some time, and it IS going to affect him or her.  Basically... it can't be avoided; you'll need to decide if it's bad enough to leave, or still bad but the harm doesn't outweigh the cost and trauma of divorce.

The fact that your wife is diagnosed may mean she's a tad less extreme on the spectrum and open to the intense therapy and introspection that is required to really "re-adjust" from high conflict to ... "normal" conflict (for lack of a better word).  But based on your descriptions above, I wouldn't bet on that.    

2) When my BPDxw went back to work, it did lessen the conflict at home.  But she'll probably have problems there too.  Expect her to complain a lot about it, especially if it's a job where she actually has to do work.  

In my case, there were also hints guys were flirting with her in the office, and I'm sure she was not above flirting back, knowing it could get her ahead.  Whether she actually went so far as to cheat, I don't think so, but don't know for sure.  By the time BPDxw went back to work, I was really checked out because of the issues I mentioned above, and just marking time until something happened bad enough to push me to file for divorce.  But overall, yes, her going back to work did improve things at home: from 9 to 5 she was occupied now, instead of sitting at home picking fights with people via text message, or calling me and accusing me of cheating on her because reasons.  It did create other issues though, like with all the women in the office she didn't get along with, which I'd have to hear all about.  And she jumped jobs too (she's had 4 different ones since 2018, including getting fired from one for incompetence).  

3) Budgeting and finances for us were another source of conflict.  If you can get away with not sharing joint accounts with her, don't.  Or have a joint account for paying bills, but keep your own finances squared away.  

In my experience, our family budget was just a way for BPDxw to attack me when she wanted to.  Every couple months, she'd log into our credit card account and grill me about why I went to lunch these days, or whether I spent money on a woman I was having an affair with.  (Apparently my dates were cheap enough that spending under $30 for two was enough to make them swoon?)  

Basically: MY spending was always bad and selfish.  Hers was always justified.  But when I suggested a spending allowance for both of us (e.g. "$300 a month each totally discretionary; purchases above that required mutual agreement; household expenses paid off each month before considering any discretionary spending) she would always avoid committing to anything, and refuse to follow any rules, even if they were mutual.

So she wasn't serious about this; it was just another thing to fight about.

When divorce was eminent, she tried to clear out all our accounts, in order to prevent me from being able to afford an attorney.  I had credit cards though, and also due to a fortuitous bank error, her name was not on our daughter's savings account, which I had been diligently saving money in, so I had some spending cash to be able to move out and get a place.  

I am fairly certain BPDxw had also been hiding money from me before cleaning out our accounts; she accused me of it... and I later realized if she accused me of doing something I wasn't, she was doing it, and just projecting it on me.  

[Cat Familiar]

When my BPDxw went back to work, it did lessen the conflict at home. But she'll probably have problems there too.  Expect her to complain a lot about it, especially if it's a job where she actually has to do work. 

There were also hints guys were flirting with her in the office, and I'm sure she was not above flirting back, knowing it could get her ahead.  Whether she actually went so far as to cheat, I don't think so, but don't know for sure…
But overall, yes, her going back to work did improve things at home: from 9 to 5 she was occupied now.
 
It did create other issues though, like with all the women in the office she didn't get along with, which I'd have to hear all about.  And she jumped jobs too. 

The above describes my mother when she returned to work when I was 10. Every night at dinner she talked about work, complaining about her bosses and her coworkers. Every night. That was the totality of the dinner conversation between her, my dad, and me. Every night.

[PeteWitsend]

...
The above describes my mother when she returned to work when I was 10. Every night at dinner she talked about work, complaining about her bosses and her coworkers. Every night. That was the totality of the dinner conversation between her, my dad, and me. Every night.

yikes, yeah, to some extent with BPDers, any solutions just shift the scope of problems.

I still think - overall - BPDxw going back to work improved things.  
But it did make lots of new issues... once she went back to work, I'd have to hear all about how unfair this person was or that person.  Or have to take on more child rearing for a couple days because she had to attend a conference.  

and then of course, new opportunities for fighting... we should move closer to HER job... even though we bought the house where she wanted, and she called ME selfish when I proposed buying our first house closer to my office.  Then she hated her job and needed a better one.  Then she needed a certification for her job and had to study for the exams for several weekends.  

it's always something.

EDIT: I guess it's always something in ANY relationship, but with a pwBPD, "it's" always something you're expected to resolve, regardless of who caused "it."  You're always to blame.

[grootyoda]

Again, it is really helpful (if a little sobering) to hear people talk about having really similar experiences. I had a good session with my therapist today where we talked about me reclaiming a solid sense of self and building up enough social support to actually provide for all the emotional/social needs that my pwBPD simply cannot current meet.

I will say that her therapist likes to point out that my pwBPD has the advantage of being pretty self-aware (relatively speaking). She is typically able to recognize that her reactions to things are not appropriate, it’s just not enough to actually stop the behaviors themselves. Talking to you folks has given me a little more clarity around this distinction. It basically sounds like I have to let go of the expectation that additional progress on her part is going to be made, and start thinking in terms of how/if I can build a situation for myself and my child that is sustainable despite that reality.

That’s the codependent part - the tendency to believe that if I just get all the “inputs” right, it will result in a series of lightbulb moments that will result in change. My therapist that behavior as trying to play along with a “game” that has no win condition, and the real option is to not play. He said it sounds like I’m starting to actually wrap my head around radical acceptance and that’s a good step towards putting my “self” back together in the middle of all this. It is, however, just plain flat out hard.

[Cat Familiar]

The way I described dinner conversations in the post above went on for the next 8 years, exactly the same, until I left for college. I imagine she continued this until she retired. Over time, my dad retreated further and further into his silence.

I mention this because it would have been helpful to me if he had played more of an active role with me. He certainly did a lot of things to support me, but he didn’t talk with me much, and that could have really helped.

As it was, I felt acute isolation and loneliness due to my mother’s disorder and her disinclination to socialize with anyone. That increased my sense of independence and curiosity and has helped me to be self sufficient in myriad ways. So I cannot say that it was entirely a *negative* since it yielded some very positive side effects.

But I do want to warn you that you will have to *fill in* emotionally for you children in ways your wife is incapable of doing so.

[PeteWitsend]

...But I do want to warn you that you will have to *fill in* emotionally for you children in ways your wife is incapable of doing so.

This is very true.  They really aren't capable of being there for their kids.  They can't put their needs aside in the moment to do what's best for them.

That was a real disappointment for me, because I always expected that while you sacrifice your independence to enter a relationship, one of the benefits is being able to share the burdens of life with someone else.  But with a BPDer you're really shouldering not only your own burden, but theirs as well.

And they resent it any time you put your needs first.  So it ends up making your own burden harder to bear.  

[PeteWitsend]

grootyoda, it's good you have a T to rely on now.  That's something I put off until I was nearly at my breaking point, 3 1/2 years into marriage.

"Radical acceptance" is also a good term to use here.  You really cannot think of exchanges or discussions with a BPDer to follow a rational pattern.  You need to change your expectations & how you communicate. 

And you have to accept there  is nothing you can do to fix the situation.  This is how it is, and all you can do is figure out how much of this burden you can accept

[grootyoda]

This is very true.  They really aren't capable of being there for their kids.  They can't put their needs aside in the moment to do what's best for them.

That was one of the first realizations I had after our child became mobile and the issues really started manifesting. Her solution to every challenging situation was quickly “I think she needs to go for a car ride so she can nap”. My mom noticed it pretty quickly too and we’ve had some very candid conversations about the reality that I’m going to need her to play a very big role in our child’s upbringing to help plug some of the gaps. I’m really fortunate that she’s been a rockstar grandmother (even if it has predictably brewed some additional resentment from my pwBPD).

[grootyoda]

New follow-up. My mother has invited us to come to dinner weekly at her house now that our child is in full time day care. My pwBPD made excuses the first couple of weeks, but now has admitted that she does not feel welcome or safe there. Given the “exposure” incident from my original post, it seems like this is probably an expected reaction to my family now having seen her anger and emotional regulation issues on display. Does that pretty much track?

FYI - when she shared that with me, I simply responded that I understand that must be uncomfortable, but my child and I will be going and we would all love it if she could join us. Is that more or less the right response?

[Cat Familiar]

That was a great response! 

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah, I agree that was the right response.

Now, you have to see how she responds.  Will she escalate this - possibly in an unreasonable or dysfunctional way - or grumble a bit but accept it or even go along? 

As I look back at my own marriage and divorce, It's in enforcing boundaries, where you can determine whether the r/s is tolerable. 

[grootyoda]

Quick update - as I was heading out to work my pwBPD said she had decided she would be at dinner and would see us tonight. This is remarkable to me when I think of how many times I've gotten sucked into a lengthy conversation about why she feels the way she does, what behaviors others have done that have caused those feelings, and so on, with no actual resolution. Conversely, this morning was far more drama free and reinforced what I'm learning about boundary setting and refusing to engage in arguments.

Obviously there's no guarantee things don't change a dozen times between now and then, but I'm not going to let myself be responsible for negotiating that with her.

[grootyoda]

As I look back at my own marriage and divorce, It's in enforcing boundaries, where you can determine whether the r/s is tolerable. 

What does "r/s" stand for? First time I think I've encountered that one.

[Cat Familiar]

r/s = relationship

[PeteWitsend]

Quick update - as I was heading out to work my pwBPD said she had decided she would be at dinner and would see us tonight. This is remarkable to me when I think of how many times I've gotten sucked into a lengthy conversation about why she feels the way she does, what behaviors others have done that have caused those feelings, and so on, with no actual resolution. Conversely, this morning was far more drama free and reinforced what I'm learning about boundary setting and refusing to engage in arguments.

Obviously there's no guarantee things don't change a dozen times between now and then, but I'm not going to let myself be responsible for negotiating that with her.

Hope it goes well.  

Someone on a different message board once told me BPD is a "spectrum disorder" meaning it had a variety of traits, and each could vary in severity.  I suppose there's a chance individuals could have "manageable" levels of BPD, i.e. you can, by setting boundaries, or avoiding certain triggering behaviors, minimize dysfunction and conflict, and curb their bad tendencies and behaviors.  

Sometimes pwBPD can manage to respect boundaries, without too much fuss.  From reading the stories here, I gather some posters have to deal with unpleasantness, but really it's more letting their partners vent and stomp their feet a bit, before they all move on & both parties are basically getting their needs met.  In other cases, enforcing boundaries invites weeks of fighting, mental and emotional abuse, possible physical abuse, police getting called, etc. etc.  In those cases, there's not much you can do...

[grootyoda]

Much appreciated. On the whole, it was a pretty good evening. I got some good time with my family, and most importantly, didn’t spend the whole time waiting for something dramatic and stressful to happen. I know that tomorrow is a whole new day, but I’ll take every day where things go relatively smoothly as a win right now.