Draining Interactions

[lm1109]

Hi everyone. So..a neighbor of mine asked to get together tonight. She is very nice, I like her, but after she left I felt really drained. Its not that SHE is draining, the interaction just felt draining. The topic of her mother came up because her mom just came to stay with her for a few weeks to help her with her baby during her pregnancy. She talked about her amazing relationship she has with her and how helpful she is and at one point even remarked "well you know how mom's are...it just felt so good to be taken care of for a few weeks" I smiled and nodded, but in reality I have no idea what it feels like, and it hurt. It hurts to be in the situation and it hurts to feel like I'm always carrying around these heavy dysfunctional secrets. I didn't want to tell her about abuse and NC because I knew she couldn't understand and she seems to be a very nice but also a kind of "surface" sort of friend/person. I'm finding surface interactions almost unbearable lately but adding in the Mom talk made it so much worse. She asked if my mom lived close and I left it at "she was never very motherly and so she is not very grandmotherly" she looked sad for me and said she was sorry..so then I quickly changed the subject to my Mother In Law...who I absolutely love. However, that also brought up my father in law who passed away from cancer in 2020. I'm definitely processing the grief but it hits hard when I think about what an amazing Pap Pap he was to my kids and how much he WANTED to stay here and watch them grow up...he did treatments and fought until the last second. I had a hope that my Dad would step up when he passed and be a Grandfather, but that was a very unrealistic hope, and the opposite happened.

Anyways none of how I'm feeling is her fault.  It's not my fault either...it just is...it's just pain and grief. I guess I just felt upset by how draining it was and ended up feeling even more disconnected. It's always been hard to relate to people. For part of my life I got pretty good at faking it...but I'm just too exhausted to fake anymore. I don't know if anyone else feels this way? Thanks for reading my rant. 

[Goldcrest]

lm1109 yes, sadly I can totally relate. I don't have kids but even just meeting friends and hearing about the wonderful things they do as part of their family systems (or seeing it on social media) makes me feel terribly isolated. As you observe other people can't possibly comprehend what we have been through and we can't comprehend what it must be like to have parents that love us, want the best for us, want to help us in a healthy way, want to celebrate us...arrrgghhhh.

One of the reasons I have become so isolated is that when I was in contact with my mother I was so battered by the experience that I knew I was drained of all joy. I knew I couldn't share the horror of my own parent so it made sitting with a friend much harder. We like to share and connect when we spend time with friends but I couldn't connect, so then I have to listen and hearing all the good, enriching stuff in their lives throws my family situation in to sharp relief. You can't block out the loss, for me it is everywhere.

My solution has been to isolate myself from close friendships, till I find someone who can relate. I don't think it is a good solution though. It is hard   I get it.

[lm1109]

Thanks Goldcrest! I actually just read your last thread after posting this and wanted to send my support to you as well. I saw you are at about a month NC and I am just reaching 4 months...I suppose we have to be easy on ourselves considering it's been a lifetime of abuse and we are now relearning (or maybe learning for the first time?) how to really "be" in the world.

lm1109
One of the reasons I have become so isolated is that when I was in contact with my mother I was so battered by the experience that I knew I was drained of all joy. I knew I couldn't share the horror of my own parent so it made sitting with a friend much harder. We like to share and connect when we spend time with friends but I couldn't connect, so then I have to listen and hearing all the good, enriching stuff in their lives throws my family situation in to sharp relief. You can't block out the loss, for me it is everywhere.

Yes! I relate to this so much and after reading it I can see that when I was in relationship with them I was also "drained of joy" and I honestly don't feel that way anymore. To expect myself not be sad when the Mom or parents topic gets brought up would be silly. After some reflecting this morning I am also seeing my own "blocks." I don't trust easily, which is why surface is where I typically stayed with people. I also do this thing where I tell myself that people who are too different from me couldn't possibly be friends, but the sad fact is that I'm different from most people, and that's ok. I did actually have fun with her too, but I reverted back to beating myself up for not being "over it" and for feeling sad or angry afterwards. But...of course I'm sad and angry...who wouldn't be? So the good part is...I'm catching myself...I'm not going to abandon myself. I love the part of me that is sad and angry too...she is validated.   

Unfortunately, most people won't understand the complexity of having mothers with BPD or the effects of a lifetime of abuse and that does feel isolating. But...we offer a unique perspective in this world. We are resilient survivors, and the truth is, I'm no longer swimming in the shallow end and I'm proud of myself for that. The interaction DID drain me but, like everything else, I learn from it.

Sending you SO much support 

[Goldcrest]

It's so hard. I feel it somedays like it's a shadow cast over me. Years ago I worked in mental health care and most of the guys I worked with were from dysfunctional families (it felt familiar for us all to work in unpredictable environments). I miss the teams I used to work with because we all shared a common experience of messed up childhoods. The humour and friendships were great but also volatile. I had to get out of that work eventually because I was simply repeating patterns of compulsive helping and yet again not caring for my own needs. Plus working at the sharper end of mental health was endlessly triggering.

As you observed lm1109 some of the experience you had with your friend was fun but also you are aware of the sadness. Praps the longer we are no contact and we sort of embrace the sadness we might recognise what we have survived (and no contact) as being pretty special in itself - a sort of secret super power. Praps in time we will find those "lighter" friendships easier and less of a reminder of what we have lost? 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Im1109,

I read your post and your update. And it made me think about the past 6 years of my life...

I left my hometown for 6 years to live in another province. I had to speak in English with people, not my mother's tongue. And suddenly... I felt more free.

I remember having friends before my departure but I was "on guard". I was always on the lookout for what I was doing wrong, for any signs of competition, of jealousy. I was scared to hurt them, to be rejected. After a meal with many people, I would need a week to quiet down my head. I was not true. I was never myself. I was playing a part that I didn't truly understand. It was very hard to BE myself.

Strangely, I moved and for the first time, I could be free. And I think it has to do with language somehow. I made a real friend, for the first time, I allowed myself to be true to say what I truly thought... And I wasn't rejected. I told her about my mother, and surprisingly, she was empathetic. It didn't break the relationship, it created connexion. I met her mother, her whole family whom she has great relationships and while it hurt that I cannot have that, I was grateful that she wanted to share her family with me. I shared my deepest thoughts with her after a miscarriage and we bonded. Then she had one herself and we bonded some more through trauma... I allowed myself to be true with her, and I think it is because I could speak in English...

Because I am now back home, and my worries are creeping back in. Something about being home, in French, upsets me. Like my english social brain is wired one way, and my French brain of origin is twisted, and traumatized.

But, I am trying to slowly link them together.

I think we have to trust people more... And if we share too much, and they decide to cut us off because it is too deep, then it is a good thing in the end, because who needs one more shallow friendship?

When I were myself, I made one real friend.. because I was real, and we could connect.

The thing is: we are rarely real because of trauma. We are often the one staying on surface and not diving deeper, and I think people can sense that we are holding ourselves back.

You have such joy and beauty to share, but also deep thoughts and an understanding of life that is unique to you...

I think we have to stop holding ourselves back. People want to connect, it's a primal need. And I think we unconsciously "know" whom we can trust. We were hardwired to be on edge, there has to be at least one advantage to it...

I always feel bad for opening up too much when I do... It scares me to open up to people... But so far: no one I opened up to came back to hurt me. On the contrary... They seemed genuinely touched and interested.

Also ...Sometimes I write on here, and thinking back on how I write, I start thinking it probably came off wrong or like I thought I was better than everyone else .. then I read back what I actually wrote, and it is often very empathetic and sweet. But I don't think I can see myself like I am... I was trained to take the blame, so I make up blame when there is none...  It goes to show just how twisted our brain is to always paint ourselves as the bad guy, even when we are genuinely being empathetic and opened.

Bottom line is: we should work on being more proud of ourselves, and of our past. It is our story, and there is no shame in it. Just truth. Our truth. And we have a right to share it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I wanted to add that it probably isn't just us feeling this way actually.

There is clearly a cultural thing.

Movies teach us to be shallow. TV shows, consumerism... We should work to buy more, and keep it shallow. Because anyone diving too deep inside will see the nonsense and stop going along with what mainstream medias tell us we should be and like.

I think our culture shapes us into disconnection. Into being scared of one another. But truly : we all crave connection. It is primal. It is human. It is normal and safe to be able to talk about your values, your truth, bringing it forward to the world and be welcome for who you are, as part of a community.

These is just not much community anymore, and it is getting harder and harder to find one. I think it alienates everyone from everyone. And probably why I felt like opening up actually made people more comfortable... Filled them up with truth instead of even more BS...

[zachira]

What really hit me was your description of how much it hurts to keep the conversation at such a surface level and not being able to discuss your true feelings with this woman because she just wouldn't understand. In my long journey with so many dysfunctional family members including a mother with BPD who is deceased, I find that most people seem to keep conversations at a superficial level and do not have the capacity to discuss the things that really hurt them to their very core and that no relationship is without problems and hurt. Probably if you were able to probe a little deeper with this woman, she might admit that there were times when her mother did things that hurt her, not that you would necesarily want to as denying that the relationship with her mother is not so perfect would probably put her on the defensive.

[Goldcrest]

Zachira YES to what you have written.

What really hit me was your description of how much it hurts to keep the conversation at such a surface level and not being able to discuss your true feelings with this woman because she just wouldn't understand. In my long journey with so many dysfunctional family members including a mother with BPD who is deceased, I find that most people seem to keep conversations at a superficial level and do not have the capacity to discuss the things that really hurt them to their very core and that no relationship is without problems and hurt. Probably if you were able to probe a little deeper with this woman, she might admit that there were times when her mother did things that hurt her, not that you would necesarily want to as denying that the relationship with her mother is not so perfect would probably put her on the defensive.

I once had a friend who I really loved but I would get SO frustrated with her constant, "well my mum is amazing I am so lucky to have her, we are like sisters" response when I talked about my mother. I was once at a gathering of her family and was shocked at how her mum was so passive/aggressive. My friend also had a partner at the time who would run her down, quietly degrade her and she would say how he never told her he loved her. She was so heavily defended that if you dared to approach negative treatment of her she would get very irritable and defensive. When her dad was dying (years ago now) she slowly shut me out of her life, her way of coping I guess. I guess because I know I am a bit of a truth teller, I find peoples blindness to their own issues can increase my feelings of frustration and loneliness. I am better when I witness denial now, just grey rock it, but I agree that no childhood or family is perfect, their is always difficulty of some sort.

[lm1109]

Thank you all so much for your kind words and advice. This board has really been such a huge support to me these last 5 months, even just reading about how everyone is navigating through their own situations is so very helpful.

Last night my husband and I had some friends over, a husband and wife and their son. Again, I had fun, I laughed and joked and then when they left..I felt that same feeling of being drained. It's almost a feeling of being fake, but I'm not, I am ALSO that happy funny person...just in the midst of processing such hard and heavy emotions. I've read about the "dark night of the soul" and how oftentimes people need some isolation to really "get to know themselves" and process their lives. I think that may be where I am. It's clear to me that it's certainly me and not anyone else that is causing this drained feeling. These friends have invited us for a weekend camping trip this summer. I'm hopeful that I won't be feeling quite as drained by then, but I'd be lying to say I'm not a little worried about it.

What is really interesting is that I don't feel this way at all with my family(husband and kids), childhood friend(who I've been reconnecting with), or especially with my Mother In Law at all. My relationship with my MIL has really flourished and it makes sense why I would find such solace with her right now. She is still in the midst of grieving my Father In Law(he passed in 2020) and she is very raw and open and this relationship has been such a breath of fresh air for me. Of course, I've always loved her, but I had my walls up with her for years and she admittedly had walls from her own trauma as well. Last weekend she talked with me about how hard it was when she walked away from her own Mother(her FOO was extremely mentally ill and riddled with addiction) She was telling me how she grieved really hard for a few years but was surprised to feel little to no emotion when her Mom actually passed away later in life. Her therapist told her that was because she had already grieved as if she had passed away decades before. Of course, I knew I was grieving, but it really struck me that it DOES actually feel as if I am grieving the death of two parents right now. It feels similar to the grief of my brothers suicide, as if they chose to "die" or leave. In a way, they all did choose to leave, but my rational brain also knows that mental illness(like cancer or any other sickness) is the real source. I'm also recognizing a sort of survivors guilt that I feel...which I'm working through.

 As much as I've been determined not to put a "forever" timeline on NC...I feel pretty absolute that it's forever. Through all of this processing I've come to understand that I can't allow them near me or my children. It's not just on my part either, my Mom will NEVER allow me to converse with my Dad and risk getting caught up in all of her lies, she'd rather never see me or her grandchildren again. In fact, I recently ran into a guy who works with my Dad and he told me that my Dad is planning to retire this year and that he and my mom are moving to Florida...which is about 18 hours away. I nodded my head as if I knew what he was talking about. There is a relief that they won't be near me at all, but of course, also that grief.

I also feel like I've been able to finally process the insanity of the abusive email my Mom sent to me at the end of this relationship. In it, she stated that her and my Dad need NO help or therapy and that the ONLY problem in the family is...you guessed it...me! The ridiculousness of this statement is what I find most healing. My Dad was an alcoholic in and out of jail BEFORE I was born. My Mom had personality disorders, eating disorders, and mental illness BEFORE I was born. My grandmothers on BOTH sides were abusive alcoholics. My great grandparents were alcoholics. My "family" on both sides is/has been riddled with addictions, suicides, abuse, and broken families/relationships since before I was born. Clearly, it's generational trauma and clearly...I am a scapegoat...and always have been. As painful as that is, it's also a revelation that I am in no way broken just projected upon. Ugh ...each time I think that, write it, or say it...I feel angry...but I have to remind myself!

Anyways thank you for reading my rants! I am sending you all SO much support! 

[lm1109]

You have such joy and beauty to share, but also deep thoughts and an understanding of life that is unique to you...

I think we have to stop holding ourselves back. People want to connect, it's a primal need. And I think we unconsciously "know" whom we can trust. We were hardwired to be on edge, there has to be at least one advantage to it...

I always feel bad for opening up too much when I do... It scares me to open up to people... But so far: no one I opened up to came back to hurt me. On the contrary... They seemed genuinely touched and interested.

Also ...Sometimes I write on here, and thinking back on how I write, I start thinking it probably came off wrong or like I thought I was better than everyone else .. then I read back what I actually wrote, and it is often very empathetic and sweet. But I don't think I can see myself like I am... I was trained to take the blame, so I make up blame when there is none...  It goes to show just how twisted our brain is to always paint ourselves as the bad guy, even when we are genuinely being empathetic and opened.

Bottom line is: we should work on being more proud of ourselves, and of our past. It is our story, and there is no shame in it. Just truth. Our truth. And we have a right to share it.

Thank you so much for your kind words Riverwolf! I really resonate with all of this...I wanted to specifically comment on how you question what you write...only to read it back and realize it was really empathetic and sweet. Thats the beauty of writing...isn't it? I do this as well, but in verbal interactions I can reframe and remember things differently...like you said...to make up blame even when there is none. I search for the "wrongness" in me that I'm afraid everyone will see. Obviously, because "wrongness" was pointed out to me my whole life. Your example was poignant because you offer so much immense value and warmth in your responses on this board. You have absolutely nothing to question there...and yet you question yourself. I do the same, but I suppose recognizing it is the key. I agree that we need to stop holding ourselves back, we all have too much to offer each other!   

[lm1109]

What really hit me was your description of how much it hurts to keep the conversation at such a surface level and not being able to discuss your true feelings with this woman because she just wouldn't understand. In my long journey with so many dysfunctional family members including a mother with BPD who is deceased, I find that most people seem to keep conversations at a superficial level and do not have the capacity to discuss the things that really hurt them to their very core and that no relationship is without problems and hurt. Probably if you were able to probe a little deeper with this woman, she might admit that there were times when her mother did things that hurt her, not that you would necesarily want to as denying that the relationship with her mother is not so perfect would probably put her on the defensive.

Thank you and I agree! I try to remind myself of this...everyone has stuff! Trauma can really isolate us and make us believe we are alone in it. I often find myself believing that no one could possibly understand me or relate, but we can all relate through our own lenses.

[Mommydoc]

I am finding that past two years of on and off social isolation, some of my “old relationships” are more awkward, superficial and draining than they used to be, but others more authentic and real. I can figure it out why some have gotten better and others not so much, but your post resonates. One of my best friends separated from her husband and then reconciled just prior to the pandemic. She had spilled her guts and now it is like it never happened. I  can’t bring it up and it is like they are living a perfect life now . I hope it is right for her, but it doesn’t feel authentic and that drains me. All of us were traumatized by the pandemic in some way.  For me it has decreased my tolerance for toxic interaction which in turn made it easier to set boundaries ( without guilt or a sense of obligation) with my UBPD sibling.  It has also truly increased  my desire for authenticity and vulnerability in relationships. I feel blessed to have many such relationships to tap in when I need to focus on the positive.