Could it be dangerous to meet with estranged boyfriend?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Could it be dangerous to meet with estranged boyfriend?

The problem is briefly this: I have had an 8 year long distance relationship (girlfriend/boyfriend scenario both aged 35 with no children) which I have felt uncertainty about for some time.

My boyfriend has told me previously he has a schizophrenia diagnosis, suffers from depression/anxiety and is receiving medication for this. He has also told me that he had (before I met him) been detained after having some sort of breakdown. Having known him for many years, I feel his difficulties seem to fit the pattern of borderline personality disorder:

* He is greatly troubled by fears of abandonment
* He tells me he is suicidal due to these fears and has sent me photos of his self-harming
* I have experienced his behaviour towards me as obsessive, anxious and possessive
* He requires a high level of attention
* He displays an exaggerated emotional response when under stress
* Has difficulty empathising with anyone else’s point of view
* Does not seem to understand the nuances of relationships, sees everything in a child like way
* Low self esteem
* Paranoia
* His family suffers similar issues; brother passed away last year after having made many suicide attempts

He has become very distressed at the difficulties between us and the prospect of the relationship ending. He has repeatedly told me that he will commit suicide if I do not restore the relationship exactly to his liking, and has said he has a plan and that he is gathering “evidence” against me so that I will be blamed in the event of this.

He now claims he has twice tried to carry the suicide threat out. As I had only been aware of this after these apparent attempts had happened, I did not have a opportunity to call the emergency services. I don’t know who else I could contact on his behalf? I have obtained the number for his local mental health team from an NHS helpline but was told they may not speak to me due to data protection. I also am aware that he hates the mental health services and will think I have betrayed him if I involve them.

While I feel sad he is suffering, I genuinely don’t know how I can restore the relationship. The reality is there are significant differences between us, I had myself become lonely and depressed within the relationship as we are unsuited sexually, something which has caused long-standing disagreements. And I am now 35 and wish to think about starting a family. I cannot see that it would be the right decision for either of us to commit any further to a future together.

He repeatedly uses phrases such as “You need to face what you have done” etc and seems to want to punish me. To put this into context most of his anger seems to specifically stem from my giving him less attention when I became depressed.

I tried to arrange therapy for him and offered to help pay, but he ultimately rejected this as he maintains that his unhappiness is “all my fault”. I have already apologised to him many times if I have hurt him, and have sent him a letter explaining the reasons why we are not suited as a couple.

Communication between us has deteriorated to the point that he is continually sending disparaging remarks about me, even once blaming my failure to continue the relationship as somehow contributing to his brothers death. He repeatedly messages both myself and my parents demanding that I “fix everything”, has posted publicly on Twitter about me and now asserts that he is coming to see me at Easter.

Given all the hate he says he feels towards me, I can’t imagine any positive outcome from a visit. I am worried that too much has happened and there’s a real prospect he may have a mental breakdown and or behave erratically/destructively. I simply don’t feel equipped to deal with such a situation. Am I overdramatising these fears? Am I being selfish?

I have been advised that he is not my responsibility and to simply end the relationship and cut contact. However given his unique set of issues I don’t know if this is the best course of action. I am worried that he is vulnerable, quite unwell and does not have an adequate support system around him to ensure his safety.

Some time ago I became slightly mentally detached from the relationship because I often find all the problems too overwhelming to think about. I love and care for him but I do not know how to help him. I feel guilty trying to move on.

In happier times he was my greatest friend as well as partner. All this is actually as sad for me as it is for him

[Hope Springs]

Could it be dangerous to meet with estranged boyfriend?

The problem is briefly this: I have had an 8 year long distance relationship (girlfriend/boyfriend scenario both aged 35 with no children) which I have felt uncertainty about for some time.

My boyfriend has told me previously he has a schizophrenia diagnosis, suffers from depression/anxiety and is receiving medication for this. He has also told me that he had (before I met him) been detained after having some sort of breakdown. Having known him for many years, I feel his difficulties seem to fit the pattern of borderline personality disorder:

* He is greatly troubled by fears of abandonment
* He tells me he is suicidal due to these fears and has sent me photos of his self-harming
* I have experienced his behaviour towards me as obsessive, anxious and possessive
* He requires a high level of attention
* He displays an exaggerated emotional response when under stress
* Has difficulty empathising with anyone else’s point of view
* Does not seem to understand the nuances of relationships, sees everything in a child like way
* Low self esteem
* Paranoia
* His family suffers similar issues; brother passed away last year after having made many suicide attempts

He has become very distressed at the difficulties between us and the prospect of the relationship ending. He has repeatedly told me that he will commit suicide if I do not restore the relationship exactly to his liking, and has said he has a plan and that he is gathering “evidence” against me so that I will be blamed in the event of this.

He now claims he has twice tried to carry the suicide threat out. As I had only been aware of this after these apparent attempts had happened, I did not have a opportunity to call the emergency services. I don’t know who else I could contact on his behalf? I have obtained the number for his local mental health team from an NHS helpline but was told they may not speak to me due to data protection. I also am aware that he hates the mental health services and will think I have betrayed him if I involve them.

While I feel sad he is suffering, I genuinely don’t know how I can restore the relationship. The reality is there are significant differences between us, I had myself become lonely and depressed within the relationship as we are unsuited sexually, something which has caused long-standing disagreements. And I am now 35 and wish to think about starting a family. I cannot see that it would be the right decision for either of us to commit any further to a future together.

He repeatedly uses phrases such as “You need to face what you have done” etc and seems to want to punish me. To put this into context most of his anger seems to specifically stem from my giving him less attention when I became depressed.

I tried to arrange therapy for him and offered to help pay, but he ultimately rejected this as he maintains that his unhappiness is “all my fault”. I have already apologised to him many times if I have hurt him, and have sent him a letter explaining the reasons why we are not suited as a couple.

Communication between us has deteriorated to the point that he is continually sending disparaging remarks about me, even once blaming my failure to continue the relationship as somehow contributing to his brothers death. He repeatedly messages both myself and my parents demanding that I “fix everything”, has posted publicly on Twitter about me and now asserts that he is coming to see me at Easter.

Given all the hate he says he feels towards me, I can’t imagine any positive outcome from a visit. I am worried that too much has happened and there’s a real prospect he may have a mental breakdown and or behave erratically/destructively. I simply don’t feel equipped to deal with such a situation. Am I overdramatising these fears? Am I being selfish?

I have been advised that he is not my responsibility and to simply end the relationship and cut contact. However given his unique set of issues I don’t know if this is the best course of action. I am worried that he is vulnerable, quite unwell and does not have an adequate support system around him to ensure his safety.

Some time ago I became slightly mentally detached from the relationship because I often find all the problems too overwhelming to think about. I love and care for him but I do not know how to help him. I feel guilty trying to move on.

In happier times he was my greatest friend as well as partner. All this is actually as sad for me as it is for him

[Cat Familiar]

That you’re asking this question indicates that you feel it is dangerous to meet with him. It serves no one for you to become a statistic. Follow your gut feelings.

[alterK]

You are explaining that you're certain no good can come from a meeting, and that you fear you might be in danger. If you do meet him, is there any chance his feelings/behaviors will change? Hardly. And he's blaming you for everything. You might want to look at a book by Bill Eddy, a social worker and lawyer specializing in difficult personalities, called "It's All Your Fault."

You are in a tough position and naturally you feel guilty, but the truth is you cannot solve the problem, and may very possibly make it worse. People close to substance abusers often face this kind of dilemma, and have to learn the difficult lesson that rescuing an addict just reinforces their addiction. Saying "I'll kill myself if you don't do what I want" is the height of manipulation. Stay safe!

[Turkish]

He has repeatedly told me that he will commit suicide if I do not restore the relationship exactly to his liking, and has said he has a plan and that he is gathering “evidence” against me so that I will be blamed in the event of this.

This is controlling and abusive behavior. I agree with Cat Familiar that your gut is telling you that you aren't safe meeting him.

A friend of mine survived a possible murder-suicide by her husband. A romantic partner making such blatant threats (to punish you even passively) isn't to be taken lightly.

Take a look here for membership discussion: Perspectives on Domestic Violence

MYTH: The victim is responsible for the violence because she provokes it.
FACT: No one asks to be abused. And no one deserves to be abused regardless of what they say or do.

This desire for utter control ("to his liking") is indeed a form of DV.

Hundreds (or more) members have been where you are and we are here to support you  

Turkish

[Mommeredith81]

What a shame. I can tell you care about him. But threatening to kill himself if the relationship ends, and sending you self-harm photos, is emotional blackmail. It sounds like a lot is going on in that family and I know you want to do the right thing. But the right thing is for him to get help, not for you to keep tapdancing to keep him alive. I sympathize with you. I know you want to see him. But you may have to set some kind and clear boundaries. He needs to reach out to someone who can help him appropriately.

[ForeverDad]

Dangerous?    Don't go down that path.  The farther you go down that path, the harder it will be to extricate yourself.

Of course, it is always your decision.  We here in peer support are here to assist you in making informed and practical decisions.  A big clue here is that absolutely no one it encouraging you to continue the relationship.  Is that enough of a heads up?

Can you fix him?  Sorry, no.  What makes it so hard is that the pwBPD (or similar PD) uses emotional attachments to pressure, manipulate, guilt and obligate others.  We have a word for that here... FOG... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

Can you help him?  Probably not, and you would be putting yourself at great risk.  The best person to help him would be a professional of some sort who allows no emotional attachment to blur the therapy and counsel the person should apply in his life.  This reminds me of a post I made recently.  This woman, after years of therapy, did recover from BPD but she emphasized her therapist always maintained a professional separation, no emotional strings.  If you tried to do that you would fail, your emotional ties would be used to sabotage you.

Have you read Get Me Out of Here — My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland?  It's a paperback account by someone recovered from BPD.  It was exceedingly tough for her, but it turned out well for her and her family.

What helped so much was that her therapist drew a strong line/boundary concerning their interactions.  Her therapist remained absolutely neutral emotionally, not even touching.  (That's why you bear so much of the brunt of her behaviors, because your spouse can't get past the past emotional baggage of the years of close relationship with you to really listen to you.)

That book ended on a high note.  Only when her therapy was completed, she got to hug her therapist for the very first and only time.

Here's a link to The Bridge and another link to a post about a Backyard Black Hole I copied near the end of that thread.  Read them.  Accept that there are some people you just can't "fix" despite however much you feel you ought to "help" them.  Then add the danger of it all and it gets downright scary.

[Hope Springs]

Thank you everyone, I am reading through the links - there’s a lot of interesting points about the different forms domestic abuse can take.

He now says I am being unemotional in my responses to him, I find this quite hurtful. I can’t imagine what more he wants me to do. I don’t feel able or free to express my own feelings in any way.

After yet another night of receiving vast numbers of duplicate suicide threats from him, I did make the decision to call his mental health team. They said they would check on him so hopefully it could be a step towards him accepting professional help.

[Notwendy]

You are doing the right thing to contact medial professionals. With the kinds of diagnoses and behaviors her has, he needs professional help. You are not in a position to help him.

Sometimes, no matter how much we care about someone, this isn't sufficient to help.

I have a friend who several years ago, developed schizophrenia. I feel so sorry for her and her family. She doesn't have BPD- and there wasn't any drama between us, but after she developed this, there was no way to reason with her or help her. Sometimes she would call in distress and yet, the discussion went nowhere. Sadly, her own delusional thinking made this impossible.

This is a sweet, kind person and yet, as much as her friends care about her, we are powerless to help her. I realized the best thing I could do was to contact someone who could take her to the doctor.

He can call you a bad friend, or a good friend. But nothing changes the fact that he needs medical help if he's doing this. I hope you can accept that you aren't responsible for this. You can't be. You did the best thing by calling his medical team.

In addition, this is not your responsibility. You can choose to hand it over to them.

[ForeverDad]

He now says I am being unemotional in my responses to him, I find this quite hurtful. I can’t imagine what more he wants me to do. I don’t feel able or free to express my own feelings in any way.

And if you remain in contact with him, it will continue.  Sadly, the the current status is the reality of the future if you remain in contact or move forward with a relationship.

About suicidal threats.  While they may be calls for help, there is a more nefarious side to them... to pressure you into responding and compliance to what he asks.  You as a non-professional do not have the responsibility to figure out which it might be.  Step back and let the ones trained in these mental health matters work with him.

We're so sorry you're going through this.  As I've read sometimes using a fishing example, let this one go, there are healthier, less dangerous and more appreciative fish out there in the sea.

[Turkish]

Hope Springs,

A cold cut off isn't necessary (unless you are in immediate danger in which case, seek outside help), but there is a way communicate with implicit boundaries. It may even be similar to what you are doing now...

2.03 | B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications

Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm.

[Hope Springs]

I’m not sure what to do, if I am honest his behaviour feels aggressive. I am coming to the view that I may have no choice but to cut contact soon as we are trapped in a completely negative situation together.

He seems to be currently “re-living” past discussions as he keeps sending me an endless stream of duplicate messages describing himself overdosing and condemning me for not somehow “fixing everything”.

He also continues to post about me publicly on Twitter, something which I have found quite distressing as what he has written is entirely biased towards his now distorted view of things. I really worry how much further he will try to take this

[Turkish]

I’m not sure what to do, if I am honest his behaviour feels aggressive.

From what you describe, yes, it is aggressive. Many members here have been smeared on social media. I was, though not to the extent that you describe.

What do you feel the fallout is for you socially? That's whether you engage or disengage? He's already smeared you it sounds like. How much Are you worried about the smear campaign?

[Hope Springs]

I don’t know if or how tell him that I don’t want him to contact me again. Does anybody have any advice? It seems harsh to do this to someone I’ve known so long but this situation cannot continue.

What do you feel the fallout is for you socially? That's whether you engage or disengage? He's already smeared you it sounds like. How much Are you worried about the smear campaign?

He has warned me that if I don’t do what he wants he will post publicly blaming me for his death before he kills himself. I have no idea if he means to really die or he is just punishing me with this threat.

He is also very angry that the sexual side of the relationship didn’t work out. He has told me this many times. So there is a worry he may post something sexual about me/and or other personal details. I  am trying to start a new career at the moment and this is the last thing I need.

Thank you for the advice on BIFF. I did write him a letter in a similar style and he was furious because he said it didn’t show enough emotion. He has said never to write to him without emotion again. This is a losing game for me, everything I do seems to be the wrong thing.

[ForeverDad]

"everything I do seems to be the wrong thing..."

Nothing you do one way or the other will be enough for him, at least not for long.

Can you look up the history of Whipping Boy?  One source: "A whipping boy was a boy educated alongside a prince in early modern Europe, who supposedly received corporal punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence."  Can you see that you're suffering undeserved punishment based on his whims and perceptions?  He misbehaves and you get punishment?

As for his threats, he will do or not do whatever he has threatened regardless what you do to appease him.

On the one hand...
If you stay, he can be expected to continue his threats and negativity.

On the other hand...
If you cut off contact and end the relationship, he may or may not follow through on his threats... but the dilemma will be (mostly) over.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s understandable that you don’t want him to hurt himself, but when people threaten suicide, that’s best left for professionals to deal with.

He’s been tremendously unkind to you, threatening to kill himself and say it’s your fault, being angry that the two of you weren’t sexually compatible, sending you photos of him self harming, maintaining that his unhappiness is your fault, being angry about you not showing enough emotion, making disparaging comments about you, blaming you for his brother’s death, demanding that you and your parents “fix everything,” posting about you on Twitter.

It’s very abusive and manipulative and with that much vitriol, he sounds very dangerous.

You are caught in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) trap. Yes, you did love him at one time, but can you truly say you love him now, the way he’s behaving?

The more contact you allow, the more these threats will continue, and likely ramp up. Please be careful and don’t fall prey to his tweaking your heartstrings.

[I Am Redeemed]

If he posts something inappropriate, report it.

My ex-husband (7 year relationship) did many of the same things, and worse. It was hard to let go and cut all contact with no warning, yet it was the best decision I ever made and was essential to my healing from that relationship.

You do not owe him anything. Given how he has and is treating you, you have been more than kind and compassionate. He will not see this and hanging on in the hope that he will change his perspective of you so you can have mutually accepting and respectful closure is only going to prolong your distress.

He is exhibiting many red flags that indicate danger and harm to you.

How do you feel about allowing yourself to put your well-being first in this situation?

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you everyone, I am reading through the links - there’s a lot of interesting points about the different forms domestic abuse can take.

He now says I am being unemotional in my responses to him, I find this quite hurtful. I can’t imagine what more he wants me to do. I don’t feel able or free to express my own feelings in any way.

After yet another night of receiving vast numbers of duplicate suicide threats from him, I did make the decision to call his mental health team. They said they would check on him so hopefully it could be a step towards him accepting professional help.

Hope, this is the part I coach more about...prep yourself for the verbal daggers that will come. The point is to use hurtful words, phrases, etc as a means to break your guard and weaken you so you give in. It is by design. The best thing you can do is be firm and indifferent. Unfortunately the more emotion you show in this scenario when dealing with people who have mental illness/disorders the worse it is for you. As messed up as that sounds you have to keep yourself centered and realize it will be a game of sorts, but it is a game you have to train yourself to not play or fall prey to. You have to remain grounded and know your truth and live your truth. Your reality is the real reality. Make sense?

As for seeing him...no. You need to steer clear. Self preservation trumps all. You deserve to be healthy and happy. Please remind yourself of that and tell yourself that. It is not your responsibility to make anyone else happy but yourself. You are also not responsible for anyone else other than yourself.

I am echoing my teammate IAR here...red flags, danger, harm...where in this scenario does any of that indicate a positive happy outcome for you?

You have done your part and good will. It is no longer your problem. Care, but do so from a distance. The guilt and weight should not be upon you. Wash your hands of it and focus on healing yourself.

Please continue to vent as much as you need to. We are all fam here and are here to help you and guide you.

Please be kind to yourself and take care of yourself.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Hope Springs]

I honestly don’t know what I feel about him anymore. I’m probably more trapped in this than I should be because I didn’t have enough friends outside the relationship. I’m trying to make a new life and new connections now so maybe in time that would give me a clearer view of things. 

He was very rude to me yesterday and it was a very personal attack rather than just a casual remark. Yet in his next message he still insisted he loved me and would see me at Easter.

I need to tell him that he can’t come over for Easter. I’m a loss as to what words to use as I don’t want to be cruel to him particularly, but the visit just can’t happen.

Please continue to vent as much as you need to. We are all fam here and are here to help you and guide you.

Thank you  I really do appreciate it. I’m so glad to have found this place, you have all helped me a lot.

[Cat Familiar]

Best to make it simple, using BIFF technique linked above: Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. And don’t JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) when he inevitably challenges you on it.

“I don’t feel comfortable having you visit.” Period. Or something similar in your own words.

“I don’t want you to visit.” “I’m not interested in having you visit.”

I’m assuming a “visit” means that he want to stay at your place?

[Hope Springs]

I’m assuming a “visit” means that he want to stay at your place?

Yes during a visit he would normally stay at my place, share a bed with me etc. All of which is unthinkable now.

I will read up on BIFF, I probably said too much in my last attempt at it. The strange thing is he seems to be able to hold a relatively normal conversation with other people, just not with me anymore.

[ForeverDad]

Do you have trusted girlfriends?  Spend a weekend with them, a weekend fun time with the girls.  Or visit family.

"Sorry, but something came up last minute and I won't be here then.  Please make other arrangements."

Have you read some of the writings of retired Dr Joe Carver?  His handouts warn of users, losers and abusers.

Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships
https://drjoecarver.com/3/miscellaneous2.htm

[Hope Springs]

Do you have trusted girlfriends?  Spend a weekend with them, a weekend fun time with the girls.  Or visit family.

"Sorry, but something came up last minute and I won't be here then.  Please make other arrangements."

Have you read some of the writings of retired Dr Joe Carver?  His handouts warn of users, losers and abusers.

Yes I might try to get away for the weekend. It had crossed my mind that he might still try to turn up whatever I say to him so it might be better for me to not to be at home.

I will take a look at Dr Carver, thanks

[Cat Familiar]

Identifying Losers, Controllers, and Abusers in Relationships mentioned above in Dr. Carver’s website is a great guide for ending an abusive relationship.

[formflier]

Yes I might try to get away for the weekend. It had crossed my mind that he might still try to turn up whatever I say to him so it might be better for me to not to be at home.

This seems very wise!

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

Another thought... As long as you continue communicating with him* he will believe his relationship with you is continuing.

* letting him live rent-free in your head

Obviously you're hesitating on moving forward to get him out of your life?  We understand, there are all sorts of pressures you're facing.  Can you name the factors that are making it so hard for you to just end it?  Perhaps naming them and listing corresponding ways to address them will aid you to move forward rather than be a deer in the headlights.

[Skip]

You don't need to do anything drastic, right now. All things equal, it generally safer and easier to not do anything to amp things up.

Eight years is a long time.
Clearly you have deep feelings for him and he for you - otherwise you (or he) would have walked away by now.
You are pulling back because you have doubts (this happens in a lot of relationships).
He is reacting to your withdrawal by pulling and tripping your emotions.

His response certainly seems self-sabotaging (i.e., not the most constructive way to improve a relationship), but some people have grown up in a world where these dysfunctional coping tools are all they have. And they often have a history of using them (or being on the receiving side) and seeing them work at some level. This can confusing for us understand, but this is his world.

I'm not saying that he is purposely manipulating you. I certainly don't know. I'm also not saying that his suicide threats are not real. I certainly don't know that either. But clearly, he is upset with your withdrawal and not handling it well, and he is somewhere on the spectrum of desperation.

Q: Could it be dangerous to meet with estranged boyfriend?  

As others have said, it's probably not constructive to get together for Easter in the next 10 days. Neither of you are in a good place with respect to each other.

I might suggest that you be honest with him and tell him, warmly, that you need some space from the relationship tensions, and that his actions are pushing you away. Maybe even ask him what he can do to help you and himself... and work the conversation around to where he agrees to seek some third party guidance and for the next month or two and to limit communicate twice a week (or whatever works for you), agree to keep those conversations upbeat (not rehashing the relationship), and get agreement that he is not to send SI notes to you and you are not going to respond if he does. Try to make this as much of a dialogue and group problem solving - let him have a voice in it.

Setting and getting him to agree to ground-rules that create some space, making it known that he needs to redirect the SI to a professional (for both of your sake), and that you are still available to communicate within safe guidelines - may help put some healthier boundaries around your near term relationship.

He may buy into this  rather than see the door close. He may also blow things up because he can't control himself at which point you don't have to re-explain to him or yourself why you are not communicating with him.

I'm writing this with your thoughts that he has BPD. Schizophrenia is far more complex - hallucinations, delusions, suicidal thoughts, isolation, and bizarre behaviors - and can be more diofficult and dangerous.

[Hope Springs]

He’s gone silent for the moment, which is very out of character. I don’t know whether to be more worried about his safety now he’s quiet, or here’s hoping maybe the mental health team have finally caught up with him.

Yes I do feel like a deer in the headlights, it’s hard to imagine him not being in my life having known him so long. There were some great times we shared together. Although I have to admit looking back he did show unusual behaviour from the beginning. I was always struggling to keep up with his anxious texts asking me where I was etc.

I don’t know for certain if the schizophrenia diagnosis is accurate, he told me he had this during a bizarre phone call earlier on in the relationship where he seemed to want to use it as leverage to get closer to me. I certainly do believe he has a serious mental health problem of some kind as he is on an ever changing rotation of prescription medications including antipsychotics.

I really feel sorry for him, I do think he feels a lot of unhappiness but he seems totally detached from the reality of the situation. The demands he has made I’m not going to be able to ever fulfil, particularly his demand that I magically fix  the sexual side of the relationship. Without going into details, we were almost comically mismatched in this way, we just don’t share the same interests.

He doesn’t seem to recognise his own behaviour is pushing me further away. His idea that I should and must commit to him forever, after all that’s happened is just not realistic. I don’t believe either of us would really be happy together.

You don't need to do anything drastic, right now. All things equal, it generally safer and easier to not do anything to amp things up.

Yes probably the sort of route I’m going with this. I may tell him I am not able to be in any relationship at the moment, it would be not really be true but might be the least damaging thing I could say.