So…they just act like nothing went down?

[IsThisRealLife?]

Hi all,
In my last post I mentioned that my mom ending our phone call stating that she was done with me and told me the F off. We had only small “hello” and “goodbye” interactions since then. But this weekend I went to see my dad and she was chipper and talkative to me. I was nice in return, but the whole time I’m thinking, soo….we aren’t going to talk about what happened?
Is this something others have seen? Do I go with it and welcome the normalcy again, or am I setting myself up for another future freak out?

[WalkbyFaith]

Yes, I have seen similar. In my case, it gets turned around on me to say it's my fault for the issue getting "swept under the rug" -- because I was unapproachable or didn't want to talk about it or it was my fault to begin with or whatever.

[Notwendy]

This is our "normal"-

I call this the "dry erase board" "apology"

To make a sincere apology, a person has to acknowledge that what they did was hurtful, and show motivation to do better.

With my BPD mother, this doesn't happen. I think she perceives herself in victim mode and victims are not accountable- it's not her fault. This also serves her by protecting her from feeling any shame. Consider that pwBPD can not manage uncomfortable feelings and shame is one of them. This isn't to excuse the behavior, but it might be self protective.

These episodes- where they rage at you or say mean things serve as a release valve for their uncomfortable feelings. Once the feelings are out, they feel better. If they feel better, then ( to them ) you feel better too. I compare this to a kid who eats too many sweets, gets a stomach ache, throws up and then feels better. You, on the other hand, have just been raged at and it doesn't feel better but she does now that she's expressed her feelings.

She actually doesn't remember. I think my BPD mother may remember some of these episodes but they may not be clear to her and also I think she doesn't recall many of them. When she is dysregulated, I think all the emotions do a "reset" for her. She feels better afterwards but then, I am not sure her memory of it is clear, due to the intense emotions in the moment. That also doesn't justify her behavior but it also explains some of the "it didn't happen". After a while, she also re-writes history- to her, it didn't happen.

This kind of dissociation is seen in abuse victims. It allows them to cope when they have no choice (such as in child abuse where they can not leave). Because my mother appears to not recall this behavior ( she either doesn't recall it or is very good at appearing that she doesn't) - I wonder if she may have been abused as a child/teen. I have no evidence of this but wonder.

Regardless of why, there's no point in bringing any of this up. If we do, she dissociates again. Sadly, this is one reason these relationships are hard to repair. We all make mistakes sometimes and when we do, we can apologize, we learn from them. This doesn't happen when there's no way to discuss them.

[Riv3rW0lf]

To add to Notwendy,

Even beyond the apology, there needs to be some sense of wanting to improve or modify their behavior, which for them is impossible to do... It is, after all, a personality disorder.

I have the "chance" of having a BPD mother that can say she is sorry. It takes a lot of energy to get her there, and holding boundaries, and I realize now, she has to feel cornered with no allies, no one willing to "take her side".

But then : despite a sorry, the behavior doesn't change. The cycle will start again if I get too close. The only way for me and her to have a shot at a "workable" relationship is physical and emotional distance.

[zachira]

What you are describing is one of the most distressing parts of dealing with this type of dysfunctional person. They act as if nothing has happened when they have been extremely abusive and expect others including you to go on as if their disturbing abuse of you never took place.

[SinisterComplex]

What you are describing is one of the most distressing parts of dealing with this type of dysfunctional person. They act as if nothing has happened when they have been extremely abusive and expect others including you to go on as if their disturbing abuse of you never took place.

I will have to agree it is the most annoying, irritating, and confounding part. My ex wife showed up on my doorstep 5 years after divorce to say happy birthday randomly like I was going to warmly welcome her into my home and like nothing bad had ever happened and everything was going to be just fine and dandy. Keep in mind there was absolutely zero contact of any sort during that 5 years.

In essence, yes it is infuriating, but it goes to show you that it is indeed a product of their disorder and that they do live in an alternate reality in their minds.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Notwendy]

I think it is part of the disorder and yet, their inability to apologize and reconcile limits the relationship.

People with NPD also don't apologize, so it could also be a family pattern.

Several years ago, my BPD mother painted me black to her family. She will not admit to doing that and tells them to not tell me. They tend to send group emails to each other. One time, I emailed them and then received an email that I thought at first was about my mother. They were being critical and condescending. Reading through the email, I realized they were talking about me! None of it was true. They had to have heard it from her.

I understand it's embarrassing to her that we are not close like her family and so the only explanation that helps with this is to present me as the one to blame.

Looking at the email, I saw that it was not ever supposed to be sent to me. Someone clicked "reply all" by accident. I sent a brief email back saying something neutral so they know I saw it. They didn't reply after that.

They have since seen my mother's behaviors and have attempted to reconcile with me but don't mention this email.

This isn't about not being able to forgive them, or holding a grudge. It's that this email made me doubt them, after all, if they thought I was what was said in the email, I feel uncomfortable around them.

My mother has tried to "erase it all" and they all act as if all is good. But still, it's hard to feel at ease around them. I don't trust them, and if they said this about me, what else are they saying that I don't know about?

They tend to be a bit on the narcissistic side. They aren't bad people though. I don't see them often but when I do, I am embarrassed that they could think these things.

Without addressing the email- without saying " I apologize, I know these things are not true about you"- I don't have the reassurance I need to be able to feel comfortable around them.

We talk about forgiveness, not being resentful- but even if we can do these things, the inability to address a hurtful event creates doubt in the relationship.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I think it is part of the disorder and yet, their inability to apologize and reconcile limits the relationship.

It does limit the relationship.

I am sorry your whole extended family turned on you. I understand your mistrust, I would be very cautious too.

My mother once told me my brother had abused severely his son, by putting him bare feet in the snow at 10pm, alone in the woods so he would stop crying... This is all nonsense. It makes me wonder what she says about me to them...

Anyhow... When my BPDm says she is sorry, it is kind of like that: " you misunderstood, this is not what I meant to do, I am sorry for the misunderstanding, I can't control how you see things. I meant good" And she won't recognize the blame she put in her own emails and texts. She blamed us, her children, for living in different cities, divided from her and how she raised us with poor values because she believed in us and she thinks we are mistreating her, while she treated her own parents well.

It is all distorted...All her words: she basically takes responsibility for being a good mother, but not really because she needed a man too much and she regret having needed a man like that, but she believed in us and did her best to put a roof over our head and food on the table, all the while blaming us for having poor values, but then it is her fault because she didn't work enough to have love within the family, and she neglected us, but we hurt her a lot and are still hurting her, and she is empathetic and understanding... (And it keeps on going like that, contradictions after contradictions, and in the end, you are just left feeling confused as it is very hard to follow and know if she is taking responsibility or blaming)

She also won't ever come back on, nor apologize for when she disowned me... That's too deep of an issue : her willingness to cut off her own daughter whenever she doesn't act precisely like she wants her to act.

It is more of a "sorry for survival", and it never addresses the deep root of the issues.

Saying "I am sorry" is easy, and can even be used in manipulative ways. Truly meaning it is another thing altogether.

But then again, I am starting to see that the matter of if they are truly sorry or not doesn't really matter: we will never truly know what is going on in their mind. What matters is: we don't trust them. This is our truth, and it is just as valid as theirs, and it is the only one we have a power over.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Went to T today and he pointed out something interesting:

She said she is sorry just after I had said I would be discussing her ongoing blames with my T.

And so ... It appeared quite clearly that, after writing her whole thing about how a good mother she was and how ungrateful we were and I said "Thank you, I guess you just gave me more things to process with my therapist. ", She probably panicked at the idea that a neutral eye would "know", and for the first time ever, it appeared she was genuinely sorry, which might just be a play to save her social face.

So yeah... Business as usual, and the close family members are all expected to just accept it without saying anything or talking about it... It was very interesting to confront her though and agree to being guilty of her accusations. It's like a I kicked a wasp nests and she is acting so different now.

So ... Now I'd like to say, Isthisreallife, that you don't have to act as business as usual. Going off script can be quite interesting in clarifying the dynamics... It was an eye opener for me anyway... They won't change, but we may.

[Methuen]

Is this something others have seen? Do I go with it and welcome the normalcy again, or am I setting myself up for another future freak out?

Yep.  And probably another future freak out.  In my situation, it always feels wrong to me to not communicate and try to resolve something.  I believe in resolution.  I don't like conflict.  In every other facet of my life, I have used conflict resolution skills with at least some degree of success with the other person.  But in my experience with my uBPD mom, nothing can be resolved.  Try to bring up a concern, and she flips it back at me and attacks and accuses.  It has the potential to blow up in ways I could not predict.  It's just not worth it for me, because her thinking is distorted, and that's not going to change in her 80's. I used to try.  I don't ever try to resolve anymore. So now I roll with it, but I've also gone LC more recently.

In my experience, the more I cater to my mom and try to help her, which translates to the more time I spend with her, the more toxic she becomes around me.  This kind of relationship is truly an example of when "less is more".

[Notwendy]

But in my experience with my uBPD mom, nothing can be resolved.  

I prefer to talk things out too. However, my BPD mother makes sure she doesn't ever lay her cards out on the table. She's got an agenda, and it's not possible to know what it is.

If I did try to have a "heart to heart" she'd be collecting what I say to her to use to manipulate me, or throw back at some point. She'd also share whatever I say with her extended family.

In addition, she lies. So much that I can't believe what she says to me. There's no point in talking things out if she's not going to be truthful.

This is her doing- I can only assume she prefers it. I used to get lulled into the possibility of resolution, after all she's my mother- right?

Not possible. There is a sadness to it but I can't have a productive discussion with someone who doesn't allow it to be that.

[Riv3rW0lf]

... after all she's my mother- right?

I had this thought this morning that I needed to kill my mother. Not literally, mind you, but figuratively.

I did not have a mother. She was some kind of poor caretaker. She did her best, sure, but she is not a mother, not in the way that I needed her to be. She is a woman who was responsible to keep me alive, and she did, but she is not my mother. This is not what a mother is.

And I felt, in my body, in my mind, a shift... I need to grieve the mother I never had, and when I do, this other woman will not affect me so much... Of that I am convinced.

[beatricex]

Is this something others have seen?
yes

Do I go with it and welcome the normalcy again, or am I setting myself up for another future freak out?
How do you feel about pretending nothing happened, and maintaining the status quo?  Really, this is about you not her.  What are you willing to do?  What would it feel like for you to "pretend nothing happened"  (fake, ingenuine, like I'm giving up my values)  OK, so is it worth it to you to have those feelings to preserve your BPD's integrity, to avoid them feeling abandoned (no right or wrong answers here, we're all just on a journey)

I know it's hard to pivot, but I felt a lot better when in mid life I started doing this.  It was no longer about what my Mom needed, it was about what I needed. me

u got 1 shot at this thing called life

p.s. "future freak outs" are inevitable, that's what happens with BPDs, they get emotionally dysregualted a lot.  Sometimes it's cause you breathed on them wrong.  Sometimes, it's just cause
 
b

[Notwendy]

As to being a mother- I understand. I no longer see my BPD mother as a "mother" in the traditional sense. However I think that concept gave me some hope- but I don't have that kind of hope.

I can not trust someone who isn't truthful to me. It took me a while to realize the extent that she lies to me. It's not something I could imagine someone doing. And, like the theme of this thread- she doesn't own up to it.

Do I pretend nothing happened and welcome the "normalcy". For me it's "Do I acknowledge the reality of the limitations of the relationship". It has been my decision to maintain some kind of contact. I don't really know to what extent the relationship means anything to her. That's not a factor. The relationship is superficial as I would not share personal information with someone I don't trust.

As Beatricex said- decide according to your own wishes. I think, in my mother's world, the only choice is to pretend nothing happened as there's no way to discuss things and then, how to proceed.