Partner insists I have a Gaming Addiction?

[grootyoda]

As the title says, I need some help handling a recurring conversation/argument my pwBPD and I have been having over the last several months. She will often bring up a concern that I spend too much time on the computer at night gaming after our child goes to bed, and that I might have a video game addiction.

To be completely fair and transparent, I did go through a stretch several years ago where I got entirely too absorbed into one particular game and ended up quitting the hobby entirely because I realized I was spending money on microtransactions and needed to step back. This was a few months after my pwBPD hit her own rock bottom with alcoholism and had just gotten sober. In what I now realize was a codependency moment, I told her that I thought I might have an addiction to gaming. After several months of working through it with my therapist and my accountability group at church, the consensus was that what I was going through had been pretty acute and situational and I've generally had a pretty healthy relationship with my hobbies since then.

Flash forward to now - my pwBPD came home from one of her therapy appointments and relayed to me that her therapist thought it sounded like I had a gaming/screen addiction issue. I felt a little confused about the whole exchange and (predictably) got defensive about it. We ended up going to see her therapist together, and when the topic came up we talked about the potential pitfalls and I came away feeling pretty good about where I am with things. We resolved to have at least two nights a week dedicated to "us" time doing something together, which sounded great to me. Predictably, that plan has not really worked out consistently because when we actually plan to do something together my pwBPD frequently decides she needs alone time or is too tired to stay up past 8:30. So I end up with a fair amount of time to myself at night, which gets filled up with the various hobbies/activities I bounce between (I play guitar at church every other week, run a tabletop RPG campaign virtually with some of my out-of-town family members about twice a month, and have a regular group of friends who I game online with about 2-3 nights a week, and meet up with a group of guys from church about one night a month).

All in all, I feel like I'm doing the things I should be doing to meet my recreational and social needs. But this gaming addiction thing just keeps coming up and coming up, to the point where I'll doubt my own perception about it, reinspect how I'm spending my time and energy, measure my hours spent, and still come away with the same conclusion - this is not really a thing. She insists she doesn't want me to stop gaming entirely, she just wants me to explore the possibility of addiction instead of being defensive. She's voiced the hope that maybe a couple's therapist (we're in the process of starting with one) will get through to me, since neither she or her therapist has been able to, and she's mad that my preference was to go with a person who specializes in relationship issues and DBT, instead of the one who specializes in screen addiction (which obviously reinforces her belief that I'm deflecting my issues onto her and avoiding dealing with them).

She voiced the concern that the only reason I want to see the DBT person is to prove that she is, in fact, the problem and I am the victim. I totally get why she would feel that way after reading through the Drama Triangle stuff from the Stop Caretaking book (Side Note - I foolishly brought up that concept with her this morning as a good framework for understanding family dynamics we want to steer away from, and immediately regretted my decision).

I talked to my therapist about it yesterday for a while, and his conclusion was that this is one of those no-win arguments. There's not a response I can give or a behavioral change I can make that will satisfy my pwBPD. The point of these conversations is not actually to reach a solution, it's to relieve the shame she feels about her own stuff.

So here's where I need some feedback. I totally get that my tendency in this particular situation has been to fall into the JADE trap. In my head, I understand that a lot of what is happening is projection of another person's dysfunction onto me, and that I'm not going to be able to reason with that. So how do I respond specifically to this when it comes up? I know I'm not going to be able to "prove" anything here, so how do I calmly and effectively navigate these conversations?

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[Cat Familiar]

I agree with your therapist. There’s no easy answer that will satisfy her and she wants to make it a problem for you.

I tend to use the “So what?” response. Not ideal, but also not agreeing, but not defending either.

[grootyoda]

I tend to use the “So what?” response. Not ideal, but also not agreeing, but not defending either.

Can you decompress that a bit for me? What does that approach look like in practice? Is it as simple as "It is certainly true that I spend a good chunk of time playing games some evenings, and sometimes it might be more than you would like. So what?"

[Cat Familiar]

Fine response. Eliminate the “So what?” as that’s for you, not her. And refuse to get drawn into further discussion. Perhaps you can say, “I understand what you’re saying.” It’s the agreeing to disagree tactic.

[grootyoda]

That makes sense. I was trying to imagine any scenario where saying “so what?” would not sound combative and further provoke things.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re correct that the “so what?” response can sound combative. I seem to get away with it because I’ve developed a history of not reacting to criticisms of my behavior. Sometimes I’ll agree, if there’s merit to what my husband is saying. “Yes, I’m self absorbed,” thinking internally, “You’re not?” 

It’s taken me a while to get to this place. For many years I’ve been manipulated and guilted into feeling bad when I was called “selfish” by my mother and previous husband. I strove to prove that I was not, even though this comment usually arose from a manipulative aim.

One day I figured out, no, I’m not selfish, at least not more than the average person, so I’ll just accept that this person is labeling me thusly and shrug. It was amazing how that worked!

All this time, I’d been trying to prove my worth, my love, demonstrate how much I cared, and all I had to do was to accept the criticism and think, “who cares what this person thinks?”

[PeteWitsend]

That makes sense. I was trying to imagine any scenario where saying “so what?” would not sound combative and further provoke things.

Look, addiction is a defined term by mental health professionals, and it actually means something; it's a psychological disability.  It is debilitating.  But if you're gainfully employed, physically healthy, and providing for your family, i.e. you are a functional adult... you're not addicted to anything.  You have a hobby - or at worst a habit - your wife doesn't like.  That's the situation.

She wants all your time, or alternatively wants you there when she wants.  And when you make time and space for yourself, you are therefore not at her beck and call, and this triggers her abandonment issues, and whatever else BPDers have going on, so they attack, and try to make their issue into your problem. 

When you told her you thought you had a gaming addiction, you basically handed her a rhetorical club to beat you with.

For the sake of argument, I concede it's reasonable for a spouse to want to spend time with their other half, so she may have some basis to complain.  But this should be a discussion, not an attack.  You should be able to work something out, like "Tuesdays and Thursdays are "us" time and I play games Monday, Wednesday, and Friday," or something like that.  But since she's BPD, she's not reasonable, and this isn't about wanting to spend time with you, it's about controlling you because her own issues.  They have trouble respecting their partners' boundaries because of their enmeshment/abandonment fears; any "space" you put between you and her, she will perceive that as you not loving her, wanting to be with her, and ultimately abandoning her.  It's a self-sabotaging behavior, b/c by demanding their partners constantly demonstrate unfailing devotion and commitment, they end up pushing them away. 

[thankful person]

You’re correct that the “so what?” response can sound combative. I seem to get away with it because I’ve developed a history of not reacting to criticisms of my behavior…

All this time, I’d been trying to prove my worth, my love, demonstrate how much I cared, and all I had to do was to accept the criticism and think, “who cares what this person thinks?”

I totally endorse Cat’s “so what?” attitude. Cat has been one of my greatest mentors on here over the past year. You get to know people on here and it feels like they’re guiding you through the drama. The very fact that my bpd family friends were validating me on the forum helped put things into perspective irl and took away some of my wife’s power over me. When my wife tries to start drama these days I generally react very little, I have a new response, “mmm hmm” (I do make eye contact so it isn’t as dismissive as it might be otherwise). This acknowledges that she has spoken but tells her, “I really don’t care, but I’m not even going to bother saying that anymore…” She drops issues and gets over them much quicker now that her words don’t upset me or even irritate me most of the time. And the best thing is, she’s not starting on me as much these days, since I stopped giving her the emotional reaction she wanted. I think pwbpd just crave emotion. If I don’t react emotionally she moves on.

[grootyoda]

I really appreciate the coaching and affirmation. I am feeling pretty nervous today in particular because my pwBPD goes to her therapist this morning… as of late that has been stressful because she typically comes back with a list of my flaws and problems, vs focusing on the things she needs to keep working on. This morning she has already been pretty keyed up and has been hitting some of the usual “points of provocation”. Additional encouragement and coaching welcome.

[zondolit]

my pwBPD goes to her therapist this morning… as of late that has been stressful because she typically comes back with a list of my flaws and problems

I've experienced this, too. I think of it as "weaponizing" the therapist. I have to hope that any good therapist will see through this eventually. Who knows what is really going on versus what your pwBPD chooses to say to you?

It is hard to know your partner is trashing you to another person. The urge to defend oneself is strong. But if there's one thing I've learned, JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain) does not work!

Last week my spouse told me his therapist agreed that another therapist we saw for marriage counseling is biased [toward me]. I said, "I'm surprised your therapist would say this about his colleague." My spouse then walked it back, "Well, he said he wasn't there and so couldn't really say. . ."

[once removed]

The point of these conversations is not actually to reach a solution, it's to relieve the shame she feels about her own stuff.

i suspect that thats a part of it.

i also suspect there may be more to it.

have you noticed a particular time or pattern to when she raises these concerns? in other words, what, if anything, tends to precede it?

[mitten]

She wants all your time, or alternatively wants you there when she wants.  And when you make time and space for yourself, you are therefore not at her beck and call, and this triggers her abandonment issues, and whatever else BPDers have going on, so they attack, and try to make their issue into your problem. 

When you told her you thought you had a gaming addiction, you basically handed her a rhetorical club to beat you with.

BINGO.  I could not have said it better.  Anything that takes your attention away from her she will see as a threat... even if it shouldn't be.

[grootyoda]

have you noticed a particular time or pattern to when she raises these concerns? in other words, what, if anything, tends to precede it?

There are usually some combination of a few factors that seem to precede this kind of thing.

1) I’ve asked for her to take over parenting for a period of time so I can take care of some things on my to do list (Mow the lawn, prep for a tabletop RPG session I’m running, or generally just refill my mental tank)
2) She is usually engaging in one of her “sneaking around” activities, as her therapist has come to call them (messaging with another guy she has had emotional affairs with in the past, impulse spending, smoking weed with a friend, etc) and I’ve raised suspicions that it feels like something is going on.
3) Something I’m particularly excited about has just come out and/or I am actually spending a little more time than usual doing my own thing without her.
4) We’ve had a series of conversations where she is actually pretty clear eyed about her own issues, followed by some pushback.

#3 is where I have to be most mindful about how my own behavior contributes to the situation and I’m becoming more and more cognizant about not feeding the fire.

[grootyoda]

I've experienced this, too. I think of it as "weaponizing" the therapist. I have to hope that any good therapist will see through this eventually. Who knows what is really going on versus what your pwBPD chooses to say to you?

That’s exactly the phrasing I’ve used for it. It’s actually gotten to where there’s a predictable pattern and I’m trying to use that to keep myself in a calm and collected headspace on those days. The steps are generally as follows:

1) Prod me about whether or not I want to hear about her session
2) Lead with the part about me.
3) Tell me how surprised she was that her therapist wanted to focus on that
4) I take the bait and get defensive (or I am smart and leave it alone)
5) We go down the rabbit hole (unless I’m smart enough to just walk away)
6) That night or the next day she’ll come clean about what she actually talked about. Usually this happens more quickly if I suggest we both go see her therapist to unpack things.

[once removed]

it seems to me that there may be several things at play here, any one of them to lesser or greater degrees.

1. there is a certain defensiveness and projection going on. if shes feeling anxious about her behavior, she may be preoccupied with yours.

having said that, if you feel like "the problem" in a relationship, a defensive crouch may seem like a natural position. theres a tendency to say "hey wait a minute, i cant be the only one with a problem". or, theres a tendency to say "hey, i did all this work, the other person should too, its only fair".

id be interested to know how the conversations around her alcoholism and what shes done about it have gone. does she feel supported?

2. i think it may be less that she latched on to something to use against you (although its not unreasonable to see it that way), and more that it speaks to an innate fear, one that we all have to lesser or greater degrees, but a person with bpd traits may have to an even higher extent. emotional unavailability represents a threat to any relationship, and can take many forms.

setting aside "addiction", is it possible there is an element of escapism when it comes to the gaming? there is with any hobby, of course, certainly for me when i play video games, but the question is really "to what extent can she feel that"?

3. it does tend to feel like when our loved ones find us being defensive about something, they really seem to latch onto it and push the issue. thats one of the reasons why JADE is rocky territory. defensiveness is evidence.

so the key here, i think, is about getting to the real, underlying issue(s), and, rather than fight her on whether or not, or to what degree you are or not, or were, "addicted", getting a sense for where shes coming from, what shes trying to communicate, and redirecting, if possible, to that.

for example, if she brings it up, is it possible that shes really saying, in the moment "i want you to spend more time with me" or "i want you to spend more time with the kids?". or could she be saying "i want emotional support for my own issues"? that would be my starting point.

[PeteWitsend]

...
2) She is usually engaging in one of her “sneaking around” activities, as her therapist has come to call them (messaging with another guy she has had emotional affairs with in the past, impulse spending, smoking weed with a friend, etc) and I’ve raised suspicions that it feels like something is going on.
...

WHOA... you didn't mention this before.  $5 says she feels guilty about her behavior here - whether or not something is going on - and her way of coping with the guilt, or deflecting your attention from her own behavior is to put the blame on you.  Here, because you volunteered you thought you had a gaming addiction, that's now THE problem in the relationship. 

[grootyoda]

Those are all really fair and helpful points. I can certainly attest to there being some escape elements at play that don’t feel great to her because she can feel that it’s her behaviors I’m escaping from. It sucks to say it, but there are just a lot of times I need to check out from her stuff and do something that doesn’t feel stressful and/or dramatic.

There’s also a reality that, at least a decent amount of the time, I find myself with time on my hands after our child goes to bed because she ends up unavailable during planned “us time”.

There is a scenario that comes to my mind that plays out semi-regularly. We’ll set aside some time to hang out one night, then when it comes down to it my pwBPD will either go to sleep early or want to work on something else on her own, and I’ll retreat to my “side” of the house to do my own thing. The phrasing that comes up around that is that she doesn’t like the feeling that we’re physically retreating to different rooms in the house, and I totally get that. I get a little stumped on how exactly to solve it given that the hours we have for each other are precisely the hours we’re most desperate for “me” time, but I’d much rather work on that problem than what is happening now.

The conversations around alcoholism are fairly minimal these days. She hasn’t had a drink in years as far as I can tell, and I probably don’t tell her how proud of that I am enough. It gets murky because there’a still a lot of “reaching” going on for substitute substances (weed, legal weed alternatives, prescription meds like benzos and adhd stimulants, etc.) and finding the right line on that is tough. I do a lot of arguing with myself over what is and isn’t problematic substance use, and I’m not fully resolved with myself about what (if anything) I need to intervene about.

[grootyoda]

WHOA... you didn't mention this before.  $5 says she feels guilty about her behavior here - whether or not something is going on - and her way of coping with the guilt, or deflecting your attention from her own behavior is to put the blame on you.  Here, because you volunteered you thought you had a gaming addiction, that's now THE problem in the relationship. 

Yeah… we’ve had this exact conversation that ended with her coming to a very emotional conclusion that she was gaslighting me to cover her own stuff, and it was actually a pretty powerful moment for us (one of her big traumas is that her dad is a narcissist who excelled at gaslighting her as a kid). Unfortunately those kinds of milestones are usually followed by a few days of backpedalling and projection as well, which makes it a little hard to know how much those realizations actually “stick”. 

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah… we’ve had this exact conversation that ended with her coming to a very emotional conclusion that she was gaslighting me to cover her own stuff, and it was actually a pretty powerful moment for us (one of her big traumas is that her dad is a narcissist who excelled at gaslighting her as a kid). Unfortunately those kinds of milestones are usually followed by a few days of backpedalling and projection as well, which makes it a little hard to know how much those realizations actually “stick”.  

This was my experience as well.  BPDxw would - when absolutely cornered - say whatever to get out of the moment.  Or even admit her repeated behavior - over the course of years, that she made into mountains of conflict - was all due to some fear she had unfairly projected on to me, or had about me, that had nothing to do with my behavior or actions.

Who knows what mental gymnastics she went through after those admissions, but would later on either deny she said what she said, or go on the attack and shout over me that I did XYZ and she only did what she did because of that.

See my response below; I really do believe they have a very malleable view of what constitutes "truth."  And I'm not getting into the subjective here of body language, or tone of voice... they can write one thing, or read something another wrote - like... IT'S IN WRITING - and omit words or add words and insist it's there, and get angry about it.    

We also fall into black and white thinking on this board, that all pwBPDers are the same when we give advice or seek it.  But you can see that some have worse tendencies than others, and others demonstrate behaviors that are much more objectively harmful to ignore (like physical abuse, or reckless behavior).  And depending on the other partner's state of mind, or values, they may be able to accommodate these tendencies, or not.  

But like you mentioned either in this thread or the other you started about "radical acceptance" you need to understand that this is who she is, and there's not a better side of her you can bring out.  

Maybe - MAYBE - you can tiptoe around well enough to minimize triggering her outbursts... but you're not going to be able to change that trigger - so to speak.  Or remove it.  If that analogy makes sense?  

I've experienced this, too. I think of it as "weaponizing" the therapist. I have to hope that any good therapist will see through this eventually. Who knows what is really going on versus what your pwBPD chooses to say to you?

It is hard to know your partner is trashing you to another person. The urge to defend oneself is strong. But if there's one thing I've learned, JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain) does not work!

Last week my spouse told me his therapist agreed that another therapist we saw for marriage counseling is biased [toward me]. I said, "I'm surprised your therapist would say this about his colleague." My spouse then walked it back, "Well, he said he wasn't there and so couldn't really say. . ."

This was pretty close to my own experience as well!

I'd call it "forum shopping":  any therapists or counselors that actually do their jobs are "biased," and they move on until they find one who does nothing but validate their feelings and play along with the "blame game."

When we finally went to a MC that BPDxw hadn't "vetted" in this way, BPDxw argued with her when she questioned her behavior, and comments toward me in the office as being unhelpful.  eventually she ended up full-bore screaming at the MC, stormed out, and refused to go back.  

Also, don't believe a word they tell you about what a third party did or said.  In my experience, BPDxw's view of the truth was "whatever I can get you to believe."  If I'd verify something she claimed was false, she'd drop it - usually with some passive aggressive comment - and slink away to fight another day.  And she would lie about things big and small, regardless of the consequences to others, as long as the lie served her needs in the moment.

Recently I got a nasty reminder of this; BPDxw openly lied about what our daughter's pediatrician recommended for a problem that could get a lot worse for her, apparently because BPDxw just didn't feel like taking her to the doctor again.  When I inquired what the result of our D's visit to the pediatrician was, I got one story from BPDxw along the lines of "Dr. said she's fine, and doesn't need any follow up" and a very different one from Dr. X when I finally got him on the phone.  

[Boogie74]

Interesting thread.   While I don’t play video games, I enjoy watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, etc.   I am often accused of being selfish because I sit in our living room with J as she binge watches various reality tv shows- Top Chef, Survivor- whatever- and if I am not on perfect laser attention to what she wants me to be, I’m a selfish person that only cares about himself.

I encourage her attempts to be social, spend time with her family (although that tends to be a trigger for her splitting episodes).   But I don’t mind being a home body- I was a home body before I met her.   

As far as being accused of being an addict, I take prescribed Adderral for ADHD.   I am occasionally accused of being originally a speed addict- now she claims that I’m a METH addict (I’ve never come close to KNOWING someone that does anything like that- I take my prescriptions as directed).   I don’t drink.   Don’t smoke.   I’ve never smoked pot!   But she accuses me of being a meth addict now (which is humorously ridiculous- if it weren’t a complete loss of attachment to any kind of reality)