Concerned but still hopeful partner

[Hopeful81]

My partner (f, 33) and I (m, 40) have been together for 5 years. I have two kids from an earlier relationship and am still amicable with my ex-partner (the mother of my children, f, 46).

First few years were wonderful. My partner was caring, we could talk and have fun for hours, we traveled a lot, were very passionate, etc. She also easily connected with my children, as well as my ex-partner. She even became friends with her.

I did notice that my partner was very emotional at times (outbursts, frustration, agitation). Those emotions revolved around frustrations at work, visiting arrangements of the children, me not giving her enough attention, etc. However, I was able to effectively sooth those emotions quickly. In discussions about these outbursts, she described herself as a highly-sensitive person and apologized extensively for her behaviour.

I proposed to her in 2018 and we were supposed to get married in June 2020. Then covid ruined our wedding plans. My father got very ill and passed away in January 2021. From there on, everything changed.

Three days after the funeral, my partner broke up with me for the first time in what seemed to an outburst of rage. She accused me of still being involved with my ex-partner (absolute nonsense) and not being sincere in my plans with her (also absolute nonsense, I love her dearly). I was able to calm her, but was and also stayed somewhat angry, because her breakup attempt directly following my father's funeral did hurt me.

In the following weeks, she attempted to break up with me several times. She stayed at her mother's home for several weeks. I went to her mother's place with roses, we discussed, I confirmed my good intentions to her (wedding, having a child together) and she came back. Everything was wonderful again for 2 1/2 months.

After 2 1/2 months, she suggested to stop taking the pill to get pregnant. I confirmed my desire to have a child with her, but suggested that we needed some more months of relationship stability. She became very angry and demanded to know my timeline. In the following weeks, she made repeated references to having babies, wanted to discuss baby names, etc. I felt somewhat disrespected. I continued being friendly, but was not very responsive.

I then found a letter in the mail of a housing company. It turned out she had leased an apartment behind my back. I became angry at her because she did this behind my back and she went to stay with her mother again. However, she returned to me, and for months and months she continued to live with me. She did have some of her stuff at the apartment, but never slept there.

During this time, we had lots of fun, but she also continued her angry outbursts and breakup attempts. Literally every two weeks, often on Sundays, there would be an extreme, unprovoked outburst of anger and sometimes she would even start packing things to move out. She became more and more verbally aggressive and even abusive, calling me a "vampire", a "stalker", my mother "cold hearted", my ex-partner a "fat turd", etc. Every time she came to her senses and every time she apologized and did not follow through. It became somewhat ridiculous, even to her. We sometimes joked about her desire to escape.

She also complained about money all the time. She spent a substantial part of her income on the lease of the apartment. In March 2022 I had enough of these complaints and suggested her to end the lease on the apartment, so that she would have money for the wedding, to travel and do fun stuff.

A few weeks later, she secretly moved out while I was out to have dinner with colleagues. We had two dinner dates after that, the first one being very fun and the second one horrible. We since have minimal, but friendly contact over the phone and through texts. She says that she no longer is in touch with her feelings and will need time. Her own mother insists that it is all about her and that I should not feel guilty in any way.

She is very anxious, shameful about her words and actions and says that she has trauma from her parents divorce. She says that she idealised me in the beginning of the relationship, but now often also experiences hate towards me. She has threatened with suicide twice. She carries enormous resentment with respect to (in my mind) minor discussions we had years ago.

She does seem to recognise that her behaviour is not rational. She went to a psychologist twice, but did not follow up with the suggested cognitive behavioural therapy. Although there is no formal diagnosis, her behaviour in my uneducated view matches with several quiet bpd personality traits. 

I am quite sure that with time, she will return (based on past experience and also the things she now already says over the phone). I am not sure that I want that to happen. At a minimum, she would need to go into therapy to overcome her struggles. And I would like her to respect my feelings and stop breaking up and walking out at every whim.

My questions:
- how can I approach my discussions with her most effectively?
- should I pursue this relationship further or is this relationship doomed?
- is there any chance that this relationship will ever be functional again (no breakup attempts, no name-calling, etc., sufficient relationship stability to have a child, etc.)?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[alterK]

Welcome to the forum! Your partner's behavior does indeed sound a lot like BPD, but we don't diagnose here. Whatever label you hang on it, is seems very problematic. You are on the roller coaster that many of us have ridden. Not fun! Here are some thoughts.

When someone acts the the way she does, they are obviously suffering. If we care for them we automatically feel sympathy and want to help. Also, we often feel resentment or anger, because their treatment of us feels unjustified.

You cannot make your partner change her behavior. Very unlikely you'll be able to talk her into it. You can only change what you do, how you approach her, how to talk to her so as to try to avoid triggering difficult behaviors. You can hope this may help her to change. There are strategies you can learn. They're important, and you can find them in the books listed in this website under the "Tools" heading.

It's unlikely that, whatever you do, and even if she does get appropriate treatment, that change will come soon. If you stay with her, expect more of the same, maybe for a long time.

Having a baby in this situation would mean that an innocent person's livelihood would depend on the relationship between you and your partner. Would you want that? And BTW, do you think you can trust her to continue taking her BCP's?

I don't want to sound cynical, so this is just a thought. Taking into account all you've said, would your post belong on a different forum here, the one for people trying to decide whether to stay in a relationship or leave it?

[Hopeful81]

Thank you! Yes there is suffering.

In the far and between moments that she fully opened up to me she said things like "I think I may never laugh again", "you do not know how I feel inside", "I am in a deep depression", "everybody is against me", stuff like that.

I have considered that she may stop taking BCPs and my mother warned me also about that. But when she lived with me, I saw her taking them rigorously every night and I do trust her in this respect.

I am actually more concerned about the suicide threats, especially now that she is all by herself.

If she would be open to treatment, I would be willing to stay, even if it would take years for her to recover. As long as progress is visible, I would be patient.

I am primarily looking for guidance on how to get her opening up to me and accept that serious professional treatment is needed. She now talks about doing a mindfulness course and although that may be helpful, it is surely not enough. I will check out the tools section, thanks for pointing that out.

[Hopeful81]

Update: today she called twice and we had lengthy discussions (literally hours) that went around in many, many circles.

I worked really hard to reflect on her feelings without showing emotion or entering into discussion whatsoever. This eventually did the trick. She called me sweet, the vibe was positive and at the end we agreed to do a dinner date soon.

Still very limited recognition on her part that psychological treatment may be needed. I did not want to push it because that would for sure have set back any progress made. I am not sure that I will get her into treatment anytime soon.

Considering that she now has her own place, would it be an option to suggest to start dating (like 2-3 times a week), rather than having her move in with me again?

I am hopeful that the time apart would prevent that she starts to hate me again. It would also allow me to collect my thoughts and be mentally prepared.

Does anyone have (positive or negative) experiences with (proposing) such an arrangement in absence of treatment?

[Cat Familiar]

Like so many members here, you hope there is some easy way to persuade your partner that she needs mental health treatment.

Unfortunately there isn’t. BPD is a shame based disorder and people who have it are extremely reluctant to attend therapy because they fear and don’t want to confront the shame and self loathing they feel.

Anosognosia is the term for people who lack an ability to self reflect and realize that they have a mental illness. This is very common with BPD. Often they will project their own failings and deficiencies onto their partners and children.

To have a successful relationship with someone with BPD, you need an abundance of patience, self sufficiency, tolerance, forgiveness, and self esteem. It’s not an easy path. Moreover you have to accept her as she is. She may never improve, but it’s possible that things will get better if you make some changes in how you function with her. Holding out hope that therapy may help her overcome BPD is a losing proposition. In some cases, with years of commitment to DBT, there can be amazing success. But most often, people with BPD don’t follow though and often quit therapy when it starts becoming difficult.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

[thankful person]

When I met my wife, she had already completed part of a DBT course, which helped her beat her eating disorder and self harm. She considers herself cured from her diagnosed bpd, and appears to have absolutely no idea that her poor treatment of me, or her view of the world, are directly related to bpd. So I’ve always known there is no point in suggesting she goes to therapy. I have managed to improve things so much on my own though. The process started once I could accept that she was never going to change, or decide to work on things herself. Ironically her behaviour is much more sane and reasonable since I started standing up for myself, setting boundaries, not arguing with her (still working on that one…) There is hope but it is definitely hard work. Our children seem much happier and calmer now, though of course there are still some aspects of my wife’s behaviour which I have no control over at all (eg. Sudden angry  shouting), and I still worry how it affects them. Good luck with your journey.

[Hopeful81]

Thank you both. So the bottom line is that I shoukd not expect her to change, but would need to change myself and how I interact with her.

I actually have scheduled a visit to a therapist myself now to learn techniques and explore whether this is within the realm of possibilities for me.

I am someone who by nature tries to convince and win over other people.

Often when she critizes me or starts an argument, my natural response is to reason with her instead of validating the underlying emotion. It may be difficult to make adjustments to that consistently, but I will give it a shot.

[thankful person]

Thank you both. So the bottom line is that I shoukd not expect her to change, but would need to change myself and how I interact with her.

I actually have scheduled a visit to a therapist myself now to learn techniques and explore whether this is within the realm of possibilities for me.

I am someone who by nature tries to convince and win over other people.

Often when she critizes me or starts an argument, my natural response is to reason with her instead of validating the underlying emotion. It may be difficult to make adjustments to that consistently, but I will give it a shot.

Yes these are exactly the right things to think and do. I see many people on here struggling to get their partner into therapy and/or then complaining because it’s not helping. So just working on your own responses is a great idea. It has been life-changing for me.

I don’t have a therapist, just the wonderful team on here. But one thing I heard is important is that the therapist understands bpd. So much of what we learn here is counter-intuitive to what a kind empathetic person would do. Some therapists only teach traditional communication so if they don’t know much about bpd their methods may not work.
I worked with young children/special needs for many years before I met my wife. Of course my teaching involves much positive encouragement and working on developing self-esteem etc. I thought I could handle a relationship with a mentally unwell person with these skills. I was wrong. My wife’s assessment of me? “You’re ALWAYS STARTING ARGUMENTS!”

It is only since I found the forum and started doing this work that I have finally understood what she meant by this. I was being invalidating. Encouraging, “it’ll be ok, everything will work out in the end…” “You’re not fat, you’re beautiful…” “You shouldn’t feel lonely just because I rang my mum/went to work etc”. When I learnt the advice don’t JADE (justify/argue/defend/explain), I suddenly realised how often  I disagreed with her. I try to see the bright side of things, adapt to new circumstances, be grateful for what I have. Encouraging my wife to see things through my eyes was, in her perception, “always starting arguments”.

She knows nothing of my life-changing year on here. I don’t even know if she’s noticed I’m not always starting arguments anymore. At first when she started ranting about something, I’d sit quietly, thinking, “don’t JADE! What the heck am I supposed to say? Can I take 5 mins to text the bpd fam?” I was amazed to find that my taking a moment to think about what I should say next actually was incredibly calming to her. Because I wasn’t arguing. She did not want a problem fixed or to be told the bright side of the situation or reassure her of the possibility that it may not be so bad. She just wanted me to listen.

It may be the opposite of what you usually do and say. But I have faith in you, that you can do this too. We’re all here to help. I found it useful to recount conversations and “arguments” and the good folk on here helped me see alternative responses and where I was going wrong. I’ve taken the word “ridiculous” out of my vocabulary and honestly that had probably helped too. Lol.