opinion no you don’t have to be codependent

[hands down]

Quick opinion here. Do with it as you will.

Most people are of the opinion that if you attract BPD partners, you must be codependent.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I disagree with this, while there is some statistical probability- here’s where I think it breaks down.


Attraction for BPD is empathy. Most codependents are highly empathic and the codependency comes into play with them not having ability to regulate it.

Codependency IMO is more of a function of how you handle a BPD (or any relationship) not if you attract BPD.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s frequently said that people with BPD partner with narcissists and codependents. These seem to be more stable pairings than partners without these attributes.

Let’s unpack this. It seems narcissists could more easily not get triggered by BPD acting out behaviors than codependents, and perhaps that keeps pwBPD on their toes, trying to be their best selves with a narcissistic partner.

Whereas codependents seem to fall all over themselves trying to accommodate a BPD partner, and that seems to lead to the pwBPD losing respect for them and taking advantage of them.

Where do emotionally healthy people factor into the mix with BPD partners?

I would guess that emotionally healthy people would see     much earlier on and as a result, would either end the relationship or not get involved in the first place. Perhaps for more cerebral emotionally healthy people with good boundaries, there might be enough attraction to a BPD partner to overlook some of the acting out. However, if someone is severely afflicted with BPD, it seems unlikely that their partner would be emotionally healthy, or stay that way long if they chose to continue the relationship.

[FirstSteps]

I agree with Cat that it's unlikely that anyone who stays with a moderate to severely affected BPD is going to be emotionally healthy.

I really like the definition from Margalis Fjelstad in Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life.  She talks about people becoming "caretakers" within the relationship though not necessarily needing to be full fledged codependents.

I personally relate to this.  I am painfully discovering that I'm not emotionally healthy.  But I'm also not codependent in any part of my life outside my marriage.  I do have strong emotional empathy (explored this also thanks to Cat).  I also have strong cognitive empathy but rather low compassionate empathy, which is a huge legitimate problem on my end in my marriage.  So I think this is all right - we're empathetic, codependent, often not healthy.

[hands down]

I agree with Cat that it's unlikely that anyone who stays with a moderate to severely affected BPD is going to be emotionally healthy.

I really like the definition from Margalis Fjelstad in Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life.  She talks about people becoming "caretakers" within the relationship though not necessarily needing to be full fledged codependents.

I personally relate to this.  I am painfully discovering that I'm not emotionally healthy.  But I'm also not codependent in any part of my life outside my marriage.  I do have strong emotional empathy (explored this also thanks to Cat).  I also have strong cognitive empathy but rather low compassionate empathy, which is a huge legitimate problem on my end in my marriage.  So I think this is all right - we're empathetic, codependent, often not healthy.

This was directionally the point I was attempting to make. Your mental and emotional health likely are not an indicator of attraction or “meeting” a BPD, rather they do have just about everything to do with how you deal with the relationship, partner and yourself when the BPD behaviors manifest.


That said Cat I’m curious about the narcissist stats. I find it odd that a BPD would manifest their symptoms with such a person as a true narcissist is emotionally unavailable, hence that would seem to preclude any type of primary attachment, and from my understanding, primary attachment is the most predominate trigger to the BPD split.  Thoughts?  .

[Skip]

Your mental and emotional health likely are not an indicator of attraction or “meeting” a BPD, rather they do have just about everything to do with how you deal with the relationship, partner and yourself when the BPD behaviors manifest.

What you say is logical and consistent with what I'm going to say; but it may be missing an important point. Surveys here show that most (not all) of the relationships started when we are in a weakened or emotionally vulnerable state - recent break up, divorce, lost job, medical problem, addiction issues. etc. In these scenarios, the much higher than normal levels of idealization coming from our partner at the beginning of the relationship was very attractive to us.

We also have seen that a lack of self confidence will often lead people with BPD traits to seek unequal (or equalizing) relationships - younger woman/older man,  more psychically attractive, etc. This is also very attractive to us.

Most people are of the opinion that if you attract BPD partners, you must be codependent.

I've not seen this statement in clinical literature. There are a lot of self-help theories, but they can be confusing because of the misuse of terms.

Timmen Cermak, M.D.,  proposed the following criteria for this codependency for inclusion in the DSM. He dedicated himself to research in this field, wrote a textbook, and many papers on the subject. If we go with his definition, he defined codependency as:

1. Continued investment of self-esteem in the ability to control both oneself and others in the face of serious adverse consequences.
2. Assumption of responsibility for meeting others' needs to the exclusion of acknowledging one's own.
3. Anxiety and boundary distortions relative to intimacy and separation.
4. Enmeshment in relationships with personality disordered, chemically dependent, other co‐dependent, or impulse‐disordered individuals.Three or more of the following:

Excessive reliance on denial, Constriction of emotions (with or without dramatic outbursts), Depression, Hypervigilance, Compulsions, Anxiety, Substance use disorder, Has been (or is) the victim of recurrent physical or sexual abuse, Stress-related medical illnesses, Has remained in a primary relationship with a person who continues to recreationally use drugs for at least two years without seeking outside help.

As I read through your posts (and many others), I certainly see some of these tendencies in your writings. I would agree with your first statement (top of my post)  - your partner wasn't attracted (or aware of this) when meeting you. These tendencies, however, were, in-part, what held the relationship together (prolonged it) as compared to others who might have excited earlier.

And I'll wrap that back around... many of us would have departed earlier too had we not been in a vulnerable state to begin with.

[thankful person]

I believe that I’ve always had codependent relationships, but that I have become much more emotionally healthy this past year, with the support of the bpd family and reading many books about the subject.

When I started doing this work to improve my relationship, I interpreted much of the advice on here and in the books as, “act as an normal/emotionally healthy person would…”

It has made me realise that if I had not had such low self worth when I entered into this relationship, I would never have got myself into such severe problems such as where I felt I had to ask permission to have a shower and the answer was usually no, etc.etc.

So it has made me wonder, if an emotionally healthy person fell in love with a pwbpd… and had much self respect and stood up for themselves, maybe validating others comes naturally to some people… and realising there’s no point in arguing with some people… could it be that such a person would fit perfectly with a pwbpd, and also have a calming effect on the pwbpd?

I have suggested on here though, that the first couple of years with my wife were the most tumultuous, and I’m not sure whether the skills I’ve learnt recently would have worked so successfully when we had just met, and she was younger, and extremely mentally unwell compared to recent years. It could be that pwbpd behave worse for the first couple of years while you are undertaking the “caretaker training” as to whether you’re enough of a mug to stay in the relationship and go to ridiculous ends to please them…

[Notwendy]

I think co-dependency is a difficult term to understand. I also think the use of "dependent" is confusing as many people in a relationship with someone with BPD are in a caretaking position, either materially or emotionally or both and it would seem the pwBPD is the "dependent" one. It's the partner who is financially independent, managing household tasks.

I think it's better to consider the term as emotionally co-dependent- being overly focused on the pwBPD's feelings and being reactive to them, to the point of being neglectful of one's own feelings and needs. It may also include similar meaning to being dependent on drugs or alcohol- the inability to "quit" this pattern. ( the dynamics, not necessarily the relationship but the partner's behavior in the relationship).

I can't recall the exact book on this topic but there were some interesting points.  Why we attract someone, or are attracted to someone is not entirely conscious and is influenced by many things, including our family or origins. One interesting part was the focus on boundaries. While we might find someone attractive- and be initially attracted to them, if there's a mismatch of boundaries, there will be a sense of discomfort. The relationship would not continue for long.

So one could reason that a person who has emotionally healthy boundaries will feel uncomfortable dating someone with BPD, and for the person with BPD, the dynamics won't "fit".

I would guess that for those in a long term relationship with someone with BPD, there was that sense at first, but as Skip said, the partner was in an emotionally vulnerable point, and/or the dynamic somehow "fit" for them ( matched the co-dependent traits) which enabled the relationship to continue.

One very interesting part of the chapter was that boundaries could be weak or too strong. If someone's boundaries are too strong- then a person who respects boundaries will sense this, and keep a distance while a person who disregards boundaries won't. So if someone is too defensive, then they may only match up with people who don't respect boundaries.

When we talk about boundaries, it's not about the other person. Boundaries are our sense of self- what is us, what isn't us, what is the other person. Someone who is co-dependent has poorly defined boundaries.

So agreed- a person might find a pwBPD to be attractive, but for the relationship to become a long term one, it's likely the partner has co-dependent traits.





 

[hands down]

I believe that I’ve always had codependent relationships, but that I have become much more emotionally healthy this past year, with the support of the bpd family and reading many books about the subject.

When I started doing this work to improve my relationship, I interpreted much of the advice on here and in the books as, “act as an normal/emotionally healthy person would…”

It has made me realise that if I had not had such low self worth when I entered into this relationship, I would never have got myself into such severe problems such as where I felt I had to ask permission to have a shower and the answer was usually no, etc.etc.

So it has made me wonder, if an emotionally healthy person fell in love with a pwbpd… and had much self respect and stood up for themselves, maybe validating others comes naturally to some people… and realising there’s no point in arguing with some people… could it be that such a person would fit perfectly with a pwbpd, and also have a calming effect on the pwbpd?

I have suggested on here though, that the first couple of years with my wife were the most tumultuous, and I’m not sure whether the skills I’ve learnt recently would have worked so successfully when we had just met, and she was younger, and extremely mentally unwell compared to recent years. It could be that pwbpd behave worse for the first couple of years while you are undertaking the “caretaker training” as to whether you’re enough of a mug to stay in the relationship and go to ridiculous ends to please them…

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

For context with me, I’ve had what I believe to be 3 BPD experiences. The last ended after 4-5 months. She just up and left. She had attempted to make the relationship heavy and pull me emotionally and I did not allow it this time. The more I would hold firm and rooted in presence and boundaries - the more I could see it consuming her. Until she didn’t come home one night then told my friends, me and family “I feared I could never make him happy and the last few weeks confirmed that,” “he is the love of my life and I will love him forever but can’t make him happy so I need to move on”.

So we basically jumped straight to discard, but I do see that I was coerced into living together and proposing to marry her. While I didn’t let the dynamics get haywire, I did in fact still fall for the glorification.  Id like to think that somewhere it was a bit like “hey this is how the romantic stories go” but the truth probably lies somewhere closer to the “okay after these last tough relationships, it’s relieving to have someone just jump in and trust me”. Of which, was exactly the cycle repeating itself.

My point here is that, I believe that me being empathetic was what we bonded over, and the more she attached the more I held appropriate boundaries.  It didn’t make the discard hurt any less but it definitely made the relationship much different while it existed.

That said, dating since, I do NOW think it would be awkward to meet someone that told me after the first date “wow I feel like I have arrived and am having an out of body experience”.

So to your point, maybe I’m learning more subconsciously than I realize.  Who knows ;)

[hands down]

As a follow up - to bring it together a bit more. For my path I think the personal development and learning took this path.

1: I married a BPD very young and never saw or knew that the dynamics were not “what everyone just dealt with”. Because it was a young attachment it just seemed normal, and we never really had the glorification phase, it just existed in devaluation for 17 years of marriage

2: then I got love bombed for the first time and realized there is something more out there.  That love bombing by the 2nd BPD ended in the similar devaluation cycle, so I dig deep to ensure I saw, honored and respected the boundaries of a healthy relationship.

3: While I used my development quite well, I still turned a blind eye to what a healthy attachment looked like from day one, I jumped into the river day one and rode the ride. While I didn’t let it take me down to the rapids, I also didn’t see it for what it was initially and fell for the allure of magic love.

4: as I date now, I’m less concerned about managing the boundaries down river (while I still will), I’m much more open to looking for partners that have the path of “entering” into connection as opposed to being engulfed by it.  Like I said before, the last relationship started with these words after the first date “I feel like I have arrived”. At the time it felt magical, now, I’m quite certain I’d take a step back if I ever see something like this and ask myself…. That’s a little strange isn’t it? After 3 hours at dinner, for someone to “arrive”.  My response now would likely lean more to… this is interesting.

[Notwendy]

I think age makes a difference. If someone is very young, and/or if this is a first relationship, they may be unaware of what is acceptable or not in a relationship or they may also not have fully formed their own personal boundaries.

Young age probably fits into Skip's category of more vulnerable.

[Skip]

I’m much more open to looking for partners that have the path of “entering” into connection as opposed to being engulfed by it...

One of the risks of using our own experience as a psychological model (or three people who experienced a similar bad relationship) is our inherent bias. When we do that we often think if we avoid the red flags from the prior relationships, we will be on the path to a healthy relationship. I don't think this acually works.

Sure, its better to find a partner who is not cutting themselves or attempting to jump out a window - suicidal - but these are not predictors of a healthy relationship. These just reduce the likelihood of a disastrous relationship.

We need much more than that to have a healthy relationship.

The first part of that is we need a model of a healthy relationship and what our role in it is. If we have been in multiple bad relationships, we probably need scrape our thinking, ways and approaches and rebuild, rethink who we are.and rethink what we want in a relationship. We most likely need to do some work on ourselves.

If we have superficial values, wants, or a moderate to low emotional IQ... a solid partner is going to pass us by. Or we won't know them when we see them. Or both.

Things like strength/perspective, compassion, patience, and values (independent values and agreed upon relationship values) are better building blocks. Maturity and emotional IQ are important.  These are deep fundamental constructs that take some time to evaluate - and we need to take the time - but the first clues are to look at how someone has managed their life up to the time we met them (and vice versa).

[Skip]

Young age probably fits into Skip's category of more vulnerable.

Most of our members are 40+.

The common vulnerabilities are:

bad breakup divorce death of a loved one lost job or financial catastrophe

[hands down]

I think age makes a difference. If someone is very young, and/or if this is a first relationship, they may be unaware of what is acceptable or not in a relationship or they may also not have fully formed their own personal boundaries.

Young age probably fits into Skip's category of more vulnerable.

I wouldn’t talk you out of that perspective.

 In addition, I was hyper religious, and the two responses I got from friends and mentors were

1: how much are you reading your Bible
2: every relationship is tough, the lord has called you to serve your wife and be patient, gentle, understanding and caring with her like god has called us.

So… yah. There were several ingredients in the stew

[hands down]

but the first clues are to look at how someone has managed their life up to the time we met them (and vice versa).

While I would love to use this model, my encounter(s) has been very covert and/or invisible BPD. While several stores on here are very apparent that someone has made a mess of their life and their family dynamics… other than the number of long term friends, the partners I’ve had communicated a life that seemed full of order, success and “self worth” (my last claimed to have been in therapy for 10 years) so I had gone by the picture that was painted.  A bit like a shiny sales sheet if you will

I’ve since looked for “integrity over time” as a yard stick. Do they do the things they tell you that make them who they are, how do they talk about others (past and present), how do they handle emotions in difficult circumstances.  These to me have seemed to be pretty telling, coupled with slowing the relationship down enough to observe them has allowed me to get a fairly decent picture of the person I’m with

[FirstSteps]

The idea of being vulnerable is a real light bulb moment for me.  I am over 40 now but was in my mid-20s when I first met my uBPDw and then in my early 30s when we became a couple.  

5 minutes after we met she said to me "I feel like I've known you forever".  And I responded enthusiastically that I felt the same.

Ugh.  Not so pretty in retrospect.

I also was very vulnerable when we became a couple - it was not one thing but more my general life situation.  Series of bad relationships, job dissatisfaction, general loneliness.  I absolutely felt the weird boundaries and still plowed forward - desperate to be "home."

Ugh again.

But it's a powerful insight.  And explains why I've been involved with a mix of people with borderline traits but also with people without them.  Thank you for all this Skip!

[lenfan]

This topic is very interesting and I tend to agree with Hands original point. Even though they are not the same thing, there is some overlap, so I prefer to think of myself as an "Empath" rather than a "Co-dependent."  "Empath" sounds almost mystical and Zenlike. That's cool. "Co-dependent" makes me feel like a clingy, needy loser. Who needs that? 

Also, with regard to attracting or being attracted to BPD partners, they make themselves pretty darn attractive with the charm,  love-bombing and idealization, so I don't think you have to be an empath and/or co-dependent to get drawn in. But, having those tendencies can make you an easier target and then things can go downhill fast, especially if you are young or vulnerable or uniformed as to all these dynamics.

It seems like this discussion leads us to the whole "chicken or the egg" question.  Did one person's mental illness cause or exacerbate another person's mental illness with all the stress and gaslighting? Or, did one person's mental illness lead them to into an unhealthy partner in the first place. Either way, I think what is important is to try and recognize your own vulnerabilities and work on  them as best you can. Also, I think it's important not to get to caught up in labeling yourself, if it does not help you feel better.   

[Skip]

This topic is very interesting and I tend to agree with Hands original point. Even though they are not the same thing, there is some overlap, so I prefer to think of myself as an "Empath" rather than a "Co-dependent."  "Empath" sounds almost mystical and Zenlike. That's cool. "Co-dependent" makes me feel like a clingy, needy loser. Who needs that? 

It's an interesting statement.

If you look at the most clinical definition of these non-clinical terms, the co-dependent is the stronger, patient, more supportive individual. One balance this person is more cerebral than emotional, or at least can stay stable in the face of emotion.

An empath is a highly emotional profile and is often associated with BPD.  On balance this person is more emotional than cerebral and can be unstable in the face of challenges that normally wouldn't destabilize others.

[khibomsis]

Thank you for that Skip! When I started dating my SO I was coming out of a divorce, my dad died three months later, and I was struggling financially. The perfect storm. You helped me feel much more compassion for my then self.
I have grown from it, and we are still together just with boundaries. It has been a journey.

[Notwendy]

"Co-dependent" makes me feel like a clingy, needy loser.

I think people have reservations about how the term sounds. But it doesn't mean that. One example is my father who was successful in his career, earned all the income in the family, and quite functional in life skills. BPD mother is quite impaired in daily function, regulating emotions and is dependent on others to do things for her.

Yet, my father was also very co-dependent. How is that?


It has to do with focus. BPD mother was the focus of the entire family and our actions/decisions revolved around her.

A person could be anything but clingy and dependent, yet where's the focus of their emotional attention? Are they walking on eggshells? Enabling? Appeasing? Giving up aspects of what is important to them in order to avoid conflict?

That's the state of co-dependency. I think there could be a better term for that but it is what it means.

I also learned some of these behaviors, even though I also am not clingy person. Once someone pointed them out to me, I could work on them.  

It's not a critical label. It's meant to help someone identify behaviors that aren't working for them and so learn new ones that do.

An empath is highly sensitive to other people's emotions, but do they do these other things?

[hands down]

An empath is highly sensitive to other people's emotions, but do they do these other things?

I see it a bit different

Empathy is the intuition, the “being in tune”, the awareness of another’s emotional state

Co-dependency et al: is what one does with the intuition

[Notwendy]

I don't think codependent traits are negative ones. Having empathy, doing caring things, these are desirable traits. It's the extent that a person who is codependent does them, and the motivation.

Extent- a co-dependent person is selfless to the point of losing themselves. Empathy for another person becomes overfocusing. They are reactive to the other person more than they take action. For instance they may want to do something but they won't- and will do what the other person wants them to do instead. They base their actions on the other person's feelings and moods.

This overfocus on the other person leads to ( or is because of) weak boundaries. A boundary is knowing what is you, what is the other person, and you don't know what is you if you've lost sense of who you are.

The actions of a co-dependent person can be identical to the actions of someone doing a nice thing because they authentically want to. Co dependent people say yes when they really mean no but are afraid to say what they mean. Eventually they begin to feel resentment.

The motivation is different. "I will do this tasks for you because I want to do this nice thing" is different from " I will do this task for you because you will be angry if I don't and I am afraid of you being angry at me".

And how you feel. When we are genuinely empathetic, we aren't unhappy. We don't feel resentful. We aren't acting out of fear.

If someone feel happy and fulfilled by what they are doing, they probably aren't being co-dependent. Unhappy and resentful? It's something to consider.

[Skip]

I see it a bit different

That may be true for you, but it's probably not a broad truth.  

The problem with non-clinical terms like empath is that there are hundreds of home-brew definitions so its hard to say what it really means.  A clinical term like BPD has a consensus definition and a large body of clinical study behind it.  Co-dependent (Timmons definition) has a body of work behind it. It was floated for inclusion in the DSM, had per review and revisions but ultimately didn't make the cut. But if you google empath there are no edu websites, no pop-medicine sites like Mayo or WedMd, not even Wikipedia providing a definition. There is another term, Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) that has a little more  work behind it.  

The Myers Briggs personality profile may be helpful. Its based on Carl Jung's personality work and there is a lot of research behind that. The personality type, INFJ, lines ups to these ideas like loose ideas lime empath or HSP.
https://www.16personalities.com/infj-personality

Looking at our members, about 15% fit this profile. INFJ is normally 1% of the population.

What is most common amonst our menbers is the "intuition" trait.
https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/sensing-or-intuition.htm


Click phtoto enlarge

[2020]

Is it not simply unconditional love?

[keepitup]

The way I see it, unconditional love implies that you love the person for who they are. You know their qualities and their faults and accept them. They may not be perfect, but you love them anyway.

However, it does not mean that you accept everything they throw at you because of your love for them. With co-dependency, I think that you accept ''unacceptable'' behaviors because you are scared of your loved one's reaction, scared of losing them, etc. Which is different from unconditional love in my opinion.

[FirstSteps]

That's a crazy stat about INFJs!  I happen to be one, and when we had this conversation within a large group at work, there was only one other.  It truly felt like a different kind of 1%  

So 15% in this community really says something.  Yet another way I feel a little less alone from being here.

It's also not the easiest road in general as a personality type - if you buy into Meyers-Briggs.  There is much debate around Meyers-Briggs, and there are many reasons to dismiss it.  But I think it works, at the very least, in letting you respond and react to your results and think about who you are.

[Notwendy]

If one considers that being raised in a family with dysfunction is a contributor to marrying a dysfunctional partner, it doesn't surprise me that being intuitive is a more frequent trait.

Being intuitive as a child is a survival skill. We learned to tune into subtle changes that are clues to how people are feeling.

When BPD mom is triggered, there's a bit more color to her face, her gaze is different. We learned to sense her mood quickly. It's a learned skill.

It may be why a pwBPD is more comfortable with an intuitive person- sensing their mood and not rocking the boat.

Unconditional love is not the same as tolerating all behaviors and having no limits or boundaries and always trying to do what makes them happy. We love our kids unconditionally and so we act in their best interest, even if they may not like it. If a child wants to eat candy for dinner, we don't let them do that. They may pitch a fit but we don't give them what they want because, it's not healthy for them and we want the best for them. So if we love our partners unconditionally, why would we enable behaviors that aren't good for them?

It's not unconditional love to enable your partner or family member to mistreat you or behave poorly.

[2020]

If we accepted their behaviour, none of us would be here. We are really struggling at at the end of our tether when many of us find bpdfamily. I am certainly not happy with the way things are going in my world.

The problem I have is broadly speaking, I do not subscribe to the AA model, of which codependency is a major component.

I am not without fault. I am sure I have to share some blame being in relationship. I just find that labelling myself as having some kind of an illness is not helpful. And no, codependency is not in the DSM.

[Skip]

I just find that labeling myself as having some kind of an illness is not helpful.

When it comes to labeling, we might be victims of our own immaturity.

Many of us miss the point of why clinicians attach a labels to a personality struggles. The label was developed to help us diagnose a problem so that we can find solutions for it and grow.

Your car has leaking water pump, you call it what it is, find the fix for it, implement that fix. You don't say labeling is unhelpful and continue to drive with water leaking out. You don't proclaim it to be a alignment problem because that is less expensive and easier to find parts.

So why the hangup on labeling our own issues?

Part of that is that we have bought into the amateur Internet psychologists use of labels - a character slam. We have it here, too.

Part if it is blaming the problem on our partner and considering our contribution to the dysfunction to be minor or even their fault.

If anyone is struggling like the members here do (like I did) there is something wrong. Find it. It won't be easy but you can. Fix it. It takes time but you can do it.

If I was co-dependent (Timmon's definition) I would grab that in a minute. I would do the work - not just blindly reach for something.  Co-dependent behavior is learned behavior and it can be unlearned. Better life for those who do.

If I have a narcissistic wound, I would grab that in a minute, too. If was able to convincingly whittle it down to that, I would be thankful. It's a tougher fix, but one can learen how to manage through it better the next time.

I tried several of these things on and it took a while to find the issue (2 years of questioning, exploring, mindfulness). A lot of people told me what that thought I wanted to here (you're healthy and strong) -  but I found the broken cog and worked on it, and I have lived a much more satisfying life because of it.

We didn't end up here because we loved unconditionally or were otherwise "too good to be true".  Truthfully, I thought that too, early on, so I get it. But to those who transformed some aspect of their life in this process (and there have been many here over the years who have), it was a journey well worth taking.

[2020]

Thanks Skip for being the voice of reason and for guiding us. There are many ways of looking at this. I must confess, right now I am hurt and angry and the future looks pretty bleak. I will need to look at the way I conduct myself; in the past, present, and moving into the future. These relationships are very, very difficult to navigate and make sense of. Part of what makes us and this site special, is the variety of approaches and advice we share. I am indeed grateful to be here.

[Notwendy]

Skip has said it very well. A "label" is not a criticism but a way to get help for what is interfering with your happiness.

If you went to the doctor with a sore throat and the doctor said "you have strep throat" and wrote a prescription for medicine, that would not be a personal criticism. You'd more likely be glad to know how to recover from the sore throat.

To take the analogy further, sometimes the medicine tastes bad. You don't like it, but you take it anyway because you want to recover from the sore throat.

I also was angry at first when a counselor suggested I work on co-dependency. I wasn't the one behaving poorly in my opinion. It isn't pleasant to have certain behaviors pointed out but they help to know what to work on.

People with co-dependent behaviors are generally high functioning. Their employers don't mind that they may over function. Their disordered family members benefit from the co-dependent's over functioning. It's that these behaviors to excess lead to emotional burnout, and resentment. You don't work on them for the goal of changing someone else. It's for you if you feel the need to.