Does not JADEing work too well?

[EZEarache]

So it has been much more than a year since I first posted on this site and moved out of my living situation. Since then things have gradually improved in terms of co-parenting and communication with my exGFwBPD. I have been carefully working on not JADEing, BIFFs, and managing my reactions.

What I have noticed is these practices are spilling over into other areas of my personal life, lately. I am using these tools to avoid conflict at all costs. In several situations I'm left ruminating, should I have stood my ground more firmly, there and engaged in a little Justification, Arguing, Defending or Explaining. It's stating to make me feel like a doormat.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[kells76]

Good question, and relatable. I notice myself often not giving explanations to my DH about why I don't want to do something, when it may actually help him if I explain (he's not the PD one, it's his kids' mom who has BPD traits).

In what types of situations do you notice yourself not explaining things, or not making an argument, etc, when you look back and think "maybe I should have"? Work situations? Shopping/retail? Hiring contractors? Family? Other?

[Cat Familiar]

That sounds more like weak boundaries than attributable to not JADEing.

JADEing makes me feel lower in status, while not JADEing and having a steely expression (when needed), I’m thinking, “Just try me,  -hole.”

That said, there are times when an explanation is warranted. But I don’t see any need for justifying, arguing, or defending—unless you’re defending a position in a debate and not *being defensive*.

[EZEarache]

In what types of situations do you notice yourself not explaining things, or not making an argument, etc, when you look back and think "maybe I should have"? Work situations? Shopping/retail? Hiring contractors? Family? Other?

For work I'm a manager, so the decisions I make are generally final. They might be questioned, but then there will be a good bit of JADEing. I have to in this case, it's my job and worth the turmoil.

However, in my personal life, it's a whole different story. One recent example would be in regard to a Shopping/Retail experience I had. I made a large furniture purchase. What I received was in fact what I ordered at the store. However, I was somewhat misinformed by the sales person. I don't think they really knew what they were doing or should have advised me better, anyway. Specifically I ordered a box spring, but the mattress didn't really need a box spring, because it was designed for a platform bed. It would have been better with a bunky board which would have been cheaper. Rather than go back to the store and challenge the sales person, with a Justification on why I should get a refund; or arguing that what I received was their mistake; or defending my decision to make a purchase; or explain my point of view, I'm just dealing with what I received and will probably have to spend more money to correct the issue down the line.

Then there have been two other examples involving bands I used to play with. In one case, I'm getting screwed out of credit and royalties for a CD in my opinion. The culprit in this case may or may not be full blown NPD, but in retrospect, she sure had a lot of the f#$@in' traits. Rather than stir up anymore drama in my life, I'm just bowing to her wishes.

In the other example I basically got kicked out of another band after people were talking about me behind my back regarding recordings I never was given the opportunity to hear. Their were extenuating circumstances that deserved consideration. Again, rather than stir up anymore drama, I'm just walking away. 

In all of these cases, I decided I really don't need anymore conflict in my life and chose not to JADE my point of view. I'd rather avoid the conflict and go on with my day no matter what the cost is to me.

That sounds more like weak boundaries than attributable to not JADEing.

Then I guess I'm using JADE incorrectly. It's been a great way for me to keep in mind when interacting with my exwBPD. Any time I find myself falling into the trap of Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining my position with her, I just stop. Shake my head, and remind myself it'll just end in blame shifting and gaslighting.

[ForeverDad]

I believe a mix of responses can be appropriate.  For example, you may need to stand up for your boundaries by JADE but in another instance realize it would lead to endless bickering and denial on something less important or even trivial.

Rereading that, I see that whether the issue is important is a factor in the decision on how to handle the matter.

[Turkish]

To boil it down, it sounds like you're averse to engaging in or triggering conflict.

[zondolit]

Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes, I have. First, I have noticed how not JADEing with my uBPD husband is ever so helpful. It has made a huge difference. And my ability to not JADE with him has gotten better/easier over time.

However, in many other situations, when not dealing with a personality disorder, it seems justification and explanation are helpful and it would be weird not to employ them. (We can agree that being defensive is never helpful.) For instance, a best practice in teaching is to explain to students what you are doing and why. And in almost every work decision/suggestion I make, I include a rationale, or justification: here's why I think you should make this change. I do this with my children too: "here's why we limit screen time to X hours/week" rather than just "here's your screen time limit."

Recently, without my knowledge, my mother-in-law (who is likely NPD/BPD) reached out to several of my extended family members to complain about my large family gathering we scheduled (in February) for this summer and which coincides with an anniversary celebration she is planning. My family contacted me and I explained to them that this was the first I'd heard of the anniversary celebration, and that I didn't even know if my husband knew about it: if he did, he'd said nothing to me. My explanation was very helpful to my family. They then advised me to say the same thing to my MIL thinking this would clear things up. But I told them I didn't think my MIL would be helped by any explanation, clarification of dates, or who told who what will help because what she is doing is not about logic or facts but about the hurt and lack of control she feels.

[EZEarache]

To boil it down, it sounds like you're averse to engaging in or triggering conflict.

Correct, I always have been. These days even more so. Doesn't seem like it is that common for most people on this board. I guess I'll just have to get over it.

[Cat Familiar]

I was averse to engaging in conflict too, and as a result of that, felt like a doormat.

Now I’ve got some skills I didn’t previously have. I can observe more quickly when things are starting to go off the rails, and adjust my strategy. This works about 90% of the time.

Because I’m not hanging on to a bunch of unexpressed anger, I can easily moderate my response when I do engage in conflict.

And I’ve learned that if I don’t treat myself with respect, other people won’t either.

[Turkish]

Quote from: Turkish on May 06, 2022, 11:06:03 PM

To boil it down, it sounds like you're averse to engaging in or triggering conflict.

Correct, I always have been. These days even more so. Doesn't seem like it is that common for most people on this board. I guess I'll just have to get over it.

No,  that's me,  too  

It's taken me a few decades in my adult life to wade against my instincts learned in childhood as survival back then.