Is this an apology?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Help me out here, friends. Am I wrong in feeling like this is not a true apology? I don't want to let my hurt feelings cloud my perception if she is truly trying to apologize, but this doesn't feel real to me:

"It truly breaks my heart that something happened that caused you to believe that I didn't think you were/ are enough. If I did or said anything that gave you that message, I am deeply sorry. I honestly have no idea where I failed so miserably. If I said anything that made it sound that way, I am deeply sorry. I can't imagine what.  I'm sorry that you felt that way, and that my attempts to help you through gave you a wrong message about yourself."

This is from a message from my uBPD mom this morning. We are technically in a period of low-to-no contact (my idea) and this is the first I've heard from her in a while. These "apologies" are just excerpts from a longer message, and of course comes on the tail of a long series of accusations and gaslighting over the past few months.

These apologies still feel invalidating and like gaslighting to me. The "I'm sorry but also I can't think of anything I did wrong so you must have misunderstood me" tactic.

Thanks for helping me process this.

[WalkbyFaith]

Help me out here, friends. Am I wrong in feeling like this is not a true apology? I don't want to let my hurt feelings cloud my perception if she is truly trying to apologize, but this doesn't feel real to me:

"It truly breaks my heart that something happened that caused you to believe that I didn't think you were/ are enough. If I did or said anything that gave you that message, I am deeply sorry. I honestly have no idea where I failed so miserably. If I said anything that made it sound that way, I am deeply sorry. I can't imagine what.  I'm sorry that you felt that way, and that my attempts to help you through gave you a wrong message about yourself."

This is from a message from my uBPD mom this morning. We are technically in a period of low-to-no contact (my idea) and this is the first I've heard from her in a while. These "apologies" are just excerpts from a longer message, and of course comes on the tail of a long series of accusations and gaslighting over the past few months.

These apologies still feel invalidating and like gaslighting to me. The "I'm sorry but also I can't think of anything I did wrong so you must have misunderstood me" tactic.

Thanks for helping me process this.

[Riv3rW0lf]

WalkbyFaith,

I will speak for myself, from my understanding of BPD and why I think those are genuine apologies.

BPD fear, above all, abandonment, the loss of those they love around them, loneliness. They are very hard to work with because of their incapacity to take responsibility for their emotions and even choices, and because they discharge those emotions on us... My mother's main emotion was rage, and I was the main receiver of it. It's not that she doesn't love me, it's not that she is not proud of me... The reason our relationship is so strained is because I am a constant remainder of her shortcomings. She does love me, but she cannot express it without blame, because the truth is she blames herself and she projects those blame on me because she just cannot bear it: it hurts too much.

I am not even making excuses for her because in the end : it doesn't change anything. My trauma, all my traumas, all the abuse from my childhood, are just too much right now to carry and I cannot manage her... My brother can. You know. He always gives her back her blame and is unscathed from her relentless attacks. He worked a lot on himself and he sees the disorder and he acts accordingly.

BPD can be managed when they seek help, or when they are truly confronted in losing those they love. They sometimes hit rock bottom and will, for a moment, be sorry and genuine about it... But, the attacks and accusations won't stop... Those are not mutually exclusive.

I would take it as a genuine apologies. As some validation, some recognition that she does love you. But I do not think she sees you more, nor that things would change between you if you were to get back in touch on a frequent basis... If only because: it is a PD. She won't be able to keep herself from reverting to her old tools. And as her daughter, it is possible that like me, you just carry too many traumas to manage this disorder...

But it doesn't mean that you will not, someday, be able to manage it, and have a relationship with her that is "good enough".

[zachira]

What is important here is how you feel about your mother's words. You know your history with her. It can help to remember that actions speak louder than words ever will.

[Turkish]

Taken by itself, it looks like an apology to me. I'd validate what she says (exact words) if you feel like discussing, not all the other things.

[GaGrl]

This may be the "best" you can expect to get.

My husband was married to his ex -- uBPD/NPD -- for over 30 years, living separately for the last ten years due to her serial infidelities, and the only "apology" he ever received was the question, "Can you ever forgive me?" No acknowledgement of hurt or wrongdoings for 30+ years, just an ask for forgiveness.

Personally, I think any apology that begins with "I'm sorry if YOU..." indicates a fundamental inability to accept responsibility for the act(s) that necessitated the apology. I would be looking for an apo!off that started " I am sorry I...".

Again, you may never get that.

If you accept the words, wait and see which actions follow.

[Turkish]

There's definitely an "all about me" vibe to the apology interspersed with a real apology which may be hard to parse, especially given the history.

My mom said, "I sure the best that I could!" Not an apology, but maybe the best that she could do.

My ex:  "sorry for all my wrongdoings!" And "I never should have left you!" A Christmas card a few years ago, "sorry that I was so selfish that I couldn't participate in your happiness." All about her. Why not a normal Christmas card? Merry Christmas?

PwBPD are emotionally stunted, and often unable to focus on others rather than their own emotions and pain. I'd take any apology and validate it while accepting it for what it is. I wasn't going to get anymore out of my mother or my ex, but at least there were blades of grass in deserts.

[wantyousafe]

It's very easy to say "I'm sorry". In fact, it's become the favourite hobby of politicians and corporations caught with their pants down.But do they mean it and more to the point, what are they going to do about it?
A true apology accepts that the person was in error and includes a promise to not repeat the error.
Your mother's apology does neither, it's a convoluted way of saying "I'm sorry you feel that way".
But as Gagirl said: that's probably the best you are going to get because it's the best they can do.
Good luck.

[Mommydoc]

It sounds like a sincere apology and it is clear she cares about you. She seems to empathize with how you feel and acknowledges it, which is way beyond most pwBPD.  At the same time, it also sounds like she doesn’t really get or understand her contribution or take responsibility for her actions. If she has BPD, she may not be capable of that and this may be as good as it gets. She is unlikely to change her behavior.

Most people, with or without BPD, don’t know how to apologize. My husband doesn’t have BPD but has never mastered good apologies, despite me giving endless feedback and trying to model it with our kids.

When I reflect on my relationship with my sibling wBPD, part of our impasse is me refusing to take responsibility for things she blames me for. I empathize with how she feels but don’t agree with her distorted version of events or to some of her (in my mind unreasonable)expectations. It will always limit our relationship and I accept that.

You  have to ask yourself, what you want from this relationship and if she is capable of that. If not, you may have to decide where you want the relationship to go. Can you have a more “limited relationship” and be OK with that?  Prioritize  your own healing.

[Notwendy]

I think it might be the best they can do. I think apologies cause them deep shame. Now, one could question the motive for the apology.

It's interesting that making amends is part of the 12 steps. This is also an aspect of several religions- there's a way to confess and/or say sorry. I think a reason for this is to address shame, a way to clear the slate, and repair a relationship. We all mess up sometimes, and this is a way to fix that.

But one aspect of the 12 steps is to avoid harming others by an apology. It's actually be willing to make amends if it won't harm another person or yourself. Revealing some information can be harmful. Also doing it to relieve your own guilt and dump that on the other person doesn't help.

I have rarely heard an apology from BPD mom. She has alluded to "I didn't handle things well when you were a teen" maybe one or two times. I really think that's the best she can do emotionally.

The other one would be a bit humorous if not for how upset I was over the situation. After Dad died she instructed her family members to not speak to me. I reached out to them and one must have felt sorry for me and told me what she did. To protect that person, I didn't tell her who it was. But later when she expected us to all be friendly again I was angry at her and told her I knew what she did. She denied it. Then one day she said "I think I might have said something, or maybe not, but it might be possible".

These are her apologies. This isn't an excuse for the behavior, but a realization that this is the best she can do and accept it as that.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I also wanted to add that an apology does not have to lead, automatically, to forgiveness...

I had to make peace with that recently when my mother, for the very first time in my life, also apologized. She wasn't taking full responsibility for her actions and words, but for the first time, she showed anxiety to the effect she could lose me, and she told me she preferred me with my flaws than not at all. When I wrote her she was still blaming me in another message she sent, she wrote this is not what she wanted to do, that she was actually trying to explain why she thought things had turned so bad, etc. I won't go in the details of those letters again, but she was showing genuine pain about the loss of our relationship, and she was almost ready to carry some of the blame, but not alone. She said that she regretted not making better choices when we were young, amongst others.

And I went no contact following this apology.

Not to hurt her, not as a revenge... I went no contact out of self-compassion for myself and a deep need to heal, to regain my power, to give her back her blame and to stop carrying her shame.

Because despite the apology, she still has the disorder, and she was still asking me to take blame for things I did not even do. And I could not.

So I did not forgive her. Because I am not ready to forgive her.

An apology should never be made to get forgiveness from someone else. It is made to make peace with ourselves. And like Notwendy said, in some cases, it is even better to not apologize directly and to leave a person be... Emotional detachement is sometimes as good as it gets, no love, but at least, no hate either.  

And so, I decided that despite her apology, I could not forgive her and I don't owe her anything... I only owe myself a chance to heal, right now.

I spent my whole life worrying about her, carrying her shame, trying to mitigate her pain, often to the cost of my own well-being. And today, I am turning my attention inward... And I realized that I had never forgiven her, and I don't want to. Today, I am trying to forgive myself and make peace with who I am, with my past. If this healing process leads to forgiveness of her actions, I might let her know... But I will not force myself to forgive her before I am truly ready, because this would be invalidating my little RiverWolf, and I have done enough of that in this lifetime.

But at least, the fact she partly apologized, I know, will help me heal. Because now, I see the disorder, and I see that, in a twisted way, she is a victim of her own brain, day after day, and part of me feel compassion for her... It will make things easier, and who knows... Maybe someday, I will be emotionally detached enough to contact her again and, like my brother, give her back her blame and not enmesh myself with her disorder. This is, however, not possible right now...

And truthfully it might never be either, considering she will be outraged that she didn't see her grandchildren grow... I don't think there is a coming back from that, but then... It is what it is! And I own my decision.
 

[zachira]

WalkbyFaith,
What could your mother have said and done for an apology by her to be healing for you?

[Notwendy]

I think there's a difference between forgiveness and "forgetting" but not holding a resentment.

I don't feel I need an apology from my mother. Considering her emotional state, I think it would be too much for her. I think what she said is the best she could do.

However, I also just can't pretend her behaviors don't exist because they continue. She doesn't tell the truth, so I can not believe her. It's not just that she lied in the past and won't apologize. It's that she continues to lie and I can't trust her.

It's not that she has been emotionally and verbally abusive in the past, it's that she continues to do that.

My emotional distance from her is due to how she behaves now. While that doesn't excuse her past behaviors, I don't need an apology to assess the situation as it is today.

[beatricex]

walkbyfaith,
I don't trust her words either.  If it were me and I had confronted my Mom (I have never done this), I would likely reply:

"Mom, sorry not sorry you don't get it.  Your apology is not feeling geniune to me, and that's the real issue between us."

short, sweet and it pretty much sums up your decision to go No/Low contact.  She's not getting YOU.  Isn't this the crux of the biscuit with our Moms?  They have never gotten us, never will.
 
b

[livednlearned]

I wrong in feeling like this is not a true apology?

WalkbyFaith, it seems like the root of the question is about whether you feel you can trust your own feelings.

What do you feel is true here?

[WalkbyFaith]

Whew. Your words have given me a lot to think about and some more self-reflection to do.

You all may be right, that this variation of an apology may be the best I could expect from her. I don't think I have ever in my life received an apology from her (for anything) that wasn't surrounded by explanations and excuses for whatever the behavior was. What I want is a real apology that simply acknowledges how much she has hurt me, without trying to explain it away. I don't think I'll ever get that.

Part of her message that I didn't include above, was that after all these apologies, she blames my teenaged "hormone problems" for causing me to misinterpret things she said to me. **face palm**

Mommydoc: You  have to ask yourself, what you want from this relationship and if she is capable of that.

That's the tricky part. Like I said in my first message, these "apologies" come after literal PAGES of gaslighting and false accusations. She can't really expect me to take her apology seriously after she has just thrown all that crap at me? This is why I went low/no contact, because I can't handle her anymore right now. Drama, accusations, telling me what an awful person I have become, gaslighting and refuting everything I say...then a message full of apologies, followed with the whole hormone comment, and ending with, "I'm concerned about you and I'm praying for you."  I just can't.

But this is where I wanted your all's perspectives because I knew mine was colored by my hurt. So I appreciate your thoughts.

[WalkbyFaith]

Tried to edit my last reply but can't for some reason...
I just wanted to clarify that this message of apologies was NOT apologizing for the ugly messages she'd sent previously, accusations, etc, but just in response to my statement that I'd always felt I couldn't be enough to please her. So the gaslighting and accusation still stands, with this apology alongside it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

In all honesty, if the whole message icluded the "praying for you" and the hormone comment, I might have said it wasn't genuine either.  

[Mommydoc]

So the gaslighting and accusation still stands, with this apology alongside it.

I want to validate you are doing the right thing. Your instincts are good, keep trusting yourself.

[Notwendy]

The teenage hormone comment reminded me about how my mother attributed my having boundaries with her to me being "hormonally unbalanced" at menopause. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

In her own letter of apologies, my mother mentioned her life was very good when I was 12 years old, she was training and happy and she added: "while RiverWolf was being bullied and intimidated at school. She changed friends, it was her decision." Sounded like some sort of competition: "I was well while she had issues! "

I remember smiling a bit at the irony of it. If my daughter was bullied at school, I would help her, not blame it on "her choice to switch friends". And above all, I don't think I could feel happy knowing my daughter had been sexually assaulted at school. So weird how they think!

A 12 years old is expected to carry all the responsibility for their action, but not them... Nope !

[Methuen]

WalkbyFaith, I haven't read this whole thread.  I've only read your first post in the thread, so I have no idea what others have said.

But I'm interested in the topic, because my mother has never even attempted an apology with me.  The closest she ever came was delivering fresh baked buns to my house.  She can't cook or bake any more because she is too old and decrepit.  In my life, I've never heard anything resembling an "I'm sorry" at any level.  She simply doesn't have the capacity.  I used to want one.  But with T and this board, I got over that.  No point wanting what I can never have.

Having said that, you're wondering if this apology by your mother is genuine.  The first sentence appears genuine, but from there, my take is that she pulls back the apology the more she writes.

These are the parts that I think are suspect and perhaps disingenuous:

I honestly have no idea where I failed so miserably.

Really?  Then maybe she needs to listen to you more.  Or maybe she needs to reflect more. Or empathize more.  Or all of the above.

If I said anything that made it sound that way, I am deeply sorry. I can't imagine what.

OK that last part is really troubling.  It seems like a person with an ego problem would say the last part.  I have never heard an apology that includes the words "I can't imagine what I did wrong".

I'm sorry that you felt that way, and that my attempts to help you through gave you a wrong message about yourself."

So here is where it really devolves, because now she is blaming you.  I'm sorry YOU felt that way (i.e. she did nothing wrong) instead of "I'm so sorry I hurt you".  "my attempts to help you through gave you a wrong message about yourself"   What is that?  Doesn't sound like an apology to me...sounds like she's blaming you.  Somehow, you caused your own wrong message (thoughts?) about yourself.

Just my opinion.  

The other test of whether this is a real apology, is "did it make you feel better or worse after reading it?"

Genuine apologies are clear.  There is sincere contrition on the part of the person giving the apology.  And they also explain what they did wrong that hurt you. There is sincere "sorry emotion" in their words.  And most importantly, you feel better afterwards.

If it made you feel worse, I can understand that.  It sounds invalidating to me, but that's just my opinion, and I'm only one person.  It also sounds to me like it was written by someone who thinks very highly of herself.

Since you were asking, I'm guessing something about it bothered you.

Where there's smoke, there may be fire.  Trust the little voice at the back of your head that is saying "this doesn't feel right".

Just my thoughts.  

[Riv3rW0lf]

I am thinking those are genuine apologies for people with BPD.

[Methuen]

I am thinking those are genuine apologies for people with BPD.

This is a great distinction.  I was looking at it from face value, and just analyzing it for being genuine.  My bad.  To her credit, she made an attempt.  This is something.  If she’s BPD, it will take a lot of effort on her part to change her thinking and behavior. 

Perhaps this is a start.

[Riv3rW0lf]

This is a great distinction.  I was looking at it from face value, and just analyzing it for being genuine.  My bad.  To her credit, she made an attempt.  This is something.  If she’s BPD, it will take a lot of effort on her part to change her thinking and behavior.  

Perhaps this is a start.

I just wanted to say your analysis of it was great, and I agreed with you.

I especially agree with the test, to look at how an apology makes us feel... Does it make us feel better, or worst? This is a great way to think about it... Because it says more about ourselves than the BPD making the excuse, really.. it enables us to stay within ourselves and our truth too...

Instead of wondering : are those genuine, or not? What did she mean? Which put us outside of ourselves, overanalysing someone else's thinking, and come with a loss of power... Asking : how do I feel in the face of this apology? It gives us back our power, it makes it about ourselves, our truth...

The problem I see with having been raised with a Borderline parent is we always question our truth, our feelings, which is both a powerful self awareness skill and a curse.. But in the end, being ready or not for forgiveness is not a matter of facts or bias, it is a matter of feeling ready for it or not, and it cannot be forced.

If an apology makes us feel bad, if we feel attacked by it, then we should validate ourselves, recognize that maybe we are not ready to get back in touch and forgive...

This is what I am working on these days anyway : staying within myself, and not trying to read minds and make excuses for others... Recognizing they have their truth, and I have mine, and mine is the only one I have control over in the end...  

[Riv3rW0lf]

My emotional distance from her is due to how she behaves now. While that doesn't excuse her past behaviors, I don't need an apology to assess the situation as it is today.

For me, if my mother, today, changed and became "normal": no blame, no split, love and acceptance, empathy, listening skills... If she became, today, the mother I had always needed, dreamed of and wanted : I still couldn't trust her.

Because of our past and the fact I have absolutely not made peace with it yet.

There is a very strong dissonance between my feelings when I am with her, and how she is acting. Even on good terms, I feel anxious, stressed, to the point where I will have frequent nosebleed because of the increase in my heartbeats.

Rationally, I know I could manage her behaviors. But instinctively, I can't.

And until I have healed those traumas, I will not be able to see my mother as she is today, BPD or not.

Basically, I see her as a dynamite stick, when for everyone else, my brother included, she is a wet firecracker.

And the only way for me to heal from it is to finally get to know myself and assert myself in this world, which can only be done away from her.

[livednlearned]

What would it mean if it were a genuine apology?

Apology or not, I do not trust the pwBPD in my life. This distrust is not driven by anger, it's just a fact. My needs will never come before theirs, if my needs are even recognized. My feelings are secondary, if they are acknowledged at all.

With the pwBPD in my life, an apology is primarily something that's useful in the moment, intended to get something they need for themselves. It's a means to an end. It doesn't feel sincere because that would require self-awareness and an ability to sit with shame.

However, it's interesting that your mom did take time to write things down. My non-BPD parents can't even do that.

In a self-absorbed, self-centered way, I would take your mom's note as a sign that yes, you do matter to her. This is the best she can do to change whatever status quo she doesn't like (low or no contact).

But I wouldn't expect the apology will change how she behaves. And in her own way she is telling the truth as she sees it: it's probably your fault that you feel hurt.

That's why I don't place trust in people with BPD.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Apology or not, I do not trust the pwBPD in my life. This distrust is not driven by anger, it's just a fact.

I've been doing a lot of introspection about "anger" these days, as an emotion, how it is perceived by others, by society, by myself.

And so, this jumped at me, and I am curious to know why you felt the need to specify "this distrust is not driver by anger"?

What would it imply, for you, if it was? Would it become a bad thing? Just looking for more food for my thoughts here.

I guess I am changing the subject in a way, but then, it a broader sense, I feel it is still related to apologies and forgiveness

[livednlearned]

I am curious to know why you felt the need to specify "this distrust is not driver by anger"?

What would it imply, for you, if it was? Would it become a bad thing?

I guess I see the two as separate. I can feel distrust with no anger and distrust with anger. Neither are bad nor good.

I have a complicated relationship with anger that tends to be more FOO-ish.

I've had to learn to separate anger from distrust.

Separating anger from distrust allows me to see things a bit more clearly. When they go together I feel like my judgment suffers. Or things can take more effort to work through, if that makes sense?

[Riv3rW0lf]

I guess I see the two as separate. I can feel distrust with no anger and distrust with anger. Neither are bad nor good.

I have a complicated relationship with anger that tends to be more FOO-ish.

I've had to learn to separate anger from distrust.

Separating anger from distrust allows me to see things a bit more clearly. When they go together I feel like my judgment suffers. Or things can take more effort to work through, if that makes sense?

Yes it does, and you have given me some more to think about. Thank you

[WalkbyFaith]

Guess I haven't visited the board in a few days, lots to catch up on.

Methuen: I have never heard an apology that includes the words "I can't imagine what I did wrong".

I appreciate your analysis of my mom's message. While I just have general feelings of "yuck," it is helpful to have someone else point out the specifics of why it feels that way. It's hard to separate my feelings enough to analyze that way.

Riverwolf: Even on good terms, I feel anxious, stressed, to the point where I will have frequent nosebleed because of the increase in my heartbeats.

Yes! My physical reaction is breaking out in hives. So strange how the body responds to our emotional state.

Riverwolf: If she became, today, the mother I had always needed, dreamed of and wanted : I still couldn't trust her.

livednlearned: Apology or not, I do not trust the pwBPD in my life.

This resonates a lot. Because there's been plenty of "apologies" and good intentions, but still no earning of trust. And because the apologies are usually like this one, they don't feel real.