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How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
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Topic: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity? (Read 1090 times)
15years
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How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
on:
June 05, 2022, 02:37:01 PM »
Hi, I'm thinking a lot about my guilt and shame and was thinking about this.
When does the line someone draw regarding infidelity become controlling of someone's sexuality or personality?
Is it okay to forbid these activities and consider them cheating:
- flirting with others
- fantasizing about others
- checking out someone you think is attractive
- looking at porn
- reading erotic stories
- dancing with someone you're attracted to
- watching certain movies or tv-series with sexual content
I know there are religious, political and cultural differences but how harsh can you be without it being too controlling?
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #1 on:
June 05, 2022, 05:07:25 PM »
Some of these behaviors cross the line of social appropriateness. Flirting with an attractive person (in front of your significant other) seems to be a definite no-no for most people. It sends a mixed signal to the other party and can be extremely invalidating to your partner.
Should you do that when alone? It could be construed as harmless fun, or it could be misinterpreted as meaningful to the other individual. Some people might feel OK doing this, while for others it would be a violation of their commitment.
In addition, even if one is alone, it’s possible to be observed by people the two of you know and even if it’s an innocent flirtation, it might not be perceived that way.
Many of the other things on your list are done in privacy and your partner wouldn’t be aware of them unless you shared that information. For some relationships, viewing porn might cross an ethical line; for others it might be no big deal.
If you know your partner has moral qualms about porn, and you don’t, that puts you into an ethical dilemma. Do you confess that you are watching? Do you watch and keep it secret? Or do you choose not to watch, even though you’d like to do so?
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“The Four Agreements 1. Be impeccable with your word. 2. Don’t take anything personally. 3. Don’t make assumptions. 4. Always do your best. ” ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
15years
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #2 on:
June 06, 2022, 07:17:09 AM »
One might view any positive feelings happening between two persons who share a mutual attraction as flirting. To avoid flirting, you'd have to avoid that person completely.
You really can find almost any answer you want to hear on the internet. The most usual answer would be, respect your partner and be discrete. I like that.
A Christian website I read last year said that reading erotic stories is damaging for the sex life and the marriage. I guess any opinion is justified. When does it become abusive?
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Notwendy
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #3 on:
June 06, 2022, 07:35:36 AM »
What is cheating? this makes me think of the Bill Clinton comment " I didn't have sex with that woman" and technically breaking it down, there wasn't the actual how are babies made method of sex, and the argument was if what he did with Monica technically qualified as sex.
I think instead of looking at sex and cheating in context of what the body parts are doing, it may be better to look at them in terms of their effect on the relationship and your own values.
I think it comes down to your own boundaries and boundaries reflect our values. One value that is in all major religions- and a part of being considerate is the Golden Rule. It is stated in religions in two ways: treat others the way you wish to be treated and if you wouldn't like something done to you, don't do it to others.
Living according to our own values determines our own sense of self and is a part of self esteem. This is about developing a solid sense of self- to know your actions are aligned with your own values. Someone else accusing you of something doesn't change that. If you, yourself, define what cheating is, and act accordingly, then an accusation doesn't change that.
This needs to shift from your wife "forbidding" certain activities to you determining your own actions because you choose to. You are not a child. Your wife isn't your boss.
We also need to separate thought from action. Nobody controls your thoughts. Sometimes you can't control your thoughts. Being married doesn't change our human nature. If we see someone who we think is attractive, we notice that. It's how we are wired. Being true to our values means we don't act on it if we have made a pledge to a partner to be faithful. If we can accept that about ourselves, we then have to accept that about others. Movie stars are stars because they are attractive. If we notice them while watching a show, it's human nature. Reality is we never met them. This isn't cheating.
So let's examine your list, not along the lines of is it cheating but is it according to your values?
-
flirting with others
I think it's inconsiderate. It's humiliating to see your partner do this in a social event. I think it also gives the wrong impression. Personally, if someone flirts with me and they are in a committed relationship, I think it's gross. I don't flirt because, I am married and not interested in that. That's my value. Why do people flirt, it's probably an ego boost, but if you are grounded in your own sense of self, you don't need that.
-
fantasizing about others
This is a thought. It's not really possible to control your thinking. If you see an attractive person- you may fantasize about them. I think it's a question of how much and why? Constant fantasizing is an escape. If it's an obsession, it could be troublesome. I think you are the one to determine if this is taking away from your relationship- because you aren't present in the reality of the moment, or just a brief "she's hot" thought. But for someone else to "forbid" your thoughts, that's not possible. In addition, your thoughts are private. You don't have to share them.
-
checking out someone you think is attractive
Again, it depends. If you are staring obviously, to the point where your partner is uncomfortable, that is inconsiderate. I think everyone notices if someone is attractive. I can tell that my H notices an attractive actress on TV- and vice versa. Sometimes I joke about it. But it's not a threat to the marriage. If it's a real life person, I'd avoid conspicuously checking them out - it's inconsiderate.
-
looking at porn
This is a big issue. And, I think it's a consensual thing. For some couples, they feel porn enhances their relationship. The key is though- it's consensual.
The problem with porn is that, it's not reality- a relationship with a human being isn't the same as porn, and porn can be addictive due to the excitement aspect. All forms of addiction do the same thing: promote exciting chemicals in the brain that create and addiction function due to how they work. All forms of addiction serve as an escape from uncomfortable feelings or situations. All forms of addiction harm intimate relationships.
Like any addiction, if someone is addicted to porn, they feel empty and restless when not watching porn. A real life partner can not live up to the effects or images of porn. Real relationships are more complicated. A human partner isn't always available or interested in some activities shown in porn. So this can lead to dissatisfaction with your human partner.
If you are invested in a partnership, it's important to be honest about this. Also know yourself. Some people can have one drink at a party and not have any issues with it. Others are alcoholics and if they have a drink, they can't handle it and are lying to themselves. Same with any addiction. My own personal feeling is that if someone wants to be happy in their relationship with someone else they should avoid porn but since porn is easily accessible, it needs to be your choice.
- reading erotic stories
Again, like fantasizing- it's the extent. Makes me think of those romance novels with phrases like ripped bodices. Why was 50 shades of grey so popular? I don't think reading one is amoral but again, it's what is going on with the person that would make the problematic or not.
- dancing with someone you're attracted to
No, I think this is out of line and in poor taste. Whether or not it is technically cheating, it's hurtful to your partner.
- watching certain movies or tv-series with sexual content
I think all movies and TV shows not rated G have some sexual content. Most of the time, if it's a show I haven't seen, I don't know all the scenes in it or what to expect, so it's not really a controlled situation or completely predictable. Unless you want to watch only cartoons for children, your selection will probably have sexual content. Again, what to watch together is consensual.
Importantly- you need to be sure of your own values and actions. When a partner has distorted thinking, anything can lead to a false accusation- such as the example you posted about buying something with a picture of a pretty lady on the box or saying something you did before you were dating her is cheating. You can not control her thinking or feeling. In the face of accusations, you need to believe you are solid in your own actions or values. This confidence is a result of your own actions. If you have been flirting, dancing, watching a lot of porn, just stop. Not for her, but for you and your own self esteem. Once you are certain of who you are, her accusations will not register with you.
If I tell you that you are a pink elephant- would you wonder about that? Can my telling you that turn you into one? You are certain you are not a pink elephant. Be that certain about your values and actions.
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Notwendy
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #4 on:
June 06, 2022, 07:46:10 AM »
You mentioned reading a Christian website about reading novels. While most religions have common principles, there are some differences in religious stances on sex and also probably variations in how strictly people adhere to those stances.
I think, more importantly- you need to act according to your own values. If you are not religious yourself, then the rules on a strict religious website may not fit you well. If your value system aligns with a specific religion and denomination- follow that one. You need to be true to yourself.
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15years
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #5 on:
June 06, 2022, 08:02:36 AM »
Quote from: Notwendy on June 06, 2022, 07:46:10 AM
You need to be true to yourself.
Good point.
The examples mentioned was not all personal, just of the top of my head, for a general discussion.
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Notwendy
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Re: How harsh is okay when it comes to defining infidelity?
«
Reply #6 on:
June 06, 2022, 08:28:43 AM »
I think they are common situations for many people.
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