No Contact and Death

[Riv3rW0lf]

Looking for thoughts here... I think the reason why I vaccillate so much right now with my no contact decision has to do with the very likely scenario that my stepfather dies within the next year or two.

When I left my mother's house the last time after a crisis that led me to realize she had BPD, my stepfather was there as I was packing. He didn't cry, he wasn't mad. He understood. He confided that my mother almost led him to commit suicide and that he vowed to himself not to embark on any other conflicts she would bring in and that he loved us (my children and me), no matter what. He hugged my daughter, he kissed my son, he hugged me and he left. And I knew, deep within, this was likely the last time I would see him. Just a gut feeling.

He is very sick, at 15% lung capacity, hernias and just so many health problems... He doesn't have that much longer, I just know.

And that led me to think about when he does die, or even if my mother dies.

I have written on here already about how I "killed my mother" figuratively. And I did, I think. I am still grieving our relationship. But what about my stepfather, whom I love? Should I call him while my mother is at work? I fear he will have changed, that he will tell me how bad I was... I am actually quite certain he would do that. So I cannot call him.

I guess I am looking for insights from your stories, if you have had those kind of thoughts and what you have concluded.

When and if the person you are no contact with die, what then? And what about if a close family member you share with this person die? What then?

[Notwendy]

Should I call him while my mother is at work? I fear he will have changed, that he will tell me how bad I was... I am actually quite certain he would do that. So I cannot call him.


I felt this way too and yes, Dad had changed and did this. It takes a lot of emotional strength to stand up to your mother and your father doesn't have that now.

Also, part of his journey includes anger. He can't get angry at your mother. Some of what he says is displaced anger. This doesn't mean it's not hurtful to you. It was a horrible experience.

But still, I called him. Why? Because I had hope. Hope that maybe it would go well, and for me, I could not stop having hope as long as it was possible.

And, because I cared about him. I called him to keep that possibility open, and showed him that I loved him.

And because, I know I tried, no matter what my parents thought of me and I think knowing that brings some peace - because I also made mistakes. I didn't know all about BPD dynamics then and reacted in ways I would not have done so now. But ultimately, I didn't stop caring about my father even if I could not see him as much as I wished to. Like you, I couldn't deal with BPD mom.

If I called and BPD mother was home, then she'd listen in on our phone calls. Sometimes she'd start talking on the extension and Dad would hang up. If you can call your SD when she's not there, that would be best.

And, importantly- even if you are not able to make contact, you do feel love for him.

[zachira]

You will never know if you missed out on chances to have some conversations with your stepfather before he dies that mean so much to you and your stepfather, unless you call him when your mother is at work.

[HappyChappy]

I had similar but was so ill myself I had no choice but to go NC. Mum would always answer the phone and say he was out (when he wasn't) and she was always at home.

She made a huge play about how distraught and disappointed "your father is " and how "no one will ever forgive me". But everyone seemed to understand, so it was just her F.O.G. She called when Dad was in hospital so I did get the chance to re-connect before he died. But like your Dad, mine totally understood why I went no contact, absolutely no hard feelings, he just wanted a quiet life so did exactly as she demanded.

My BPD would monitor all the phone calls (listening in on an extension) and never worked. But if you can call your step Dad without her knowing, what concerns you ? My Dad did say he wanted me to call mum, but he also was pleased to hear from me.

[Riv3rW0lf]

My BPD would monitor all the phone calls (listening in on an extension) and never worked. But if you can call your step Dad without her knowing, what concerns you ? My Dad did say he wanted me to call mum, but he also was pleased to hear from me.

I'm not sure... I feel scared somehow. Not of him but of being rejected maybe...

[Notwendy]

I understand that. At the last few visits, he would rage at me. I didn't want to remember him like that. Also the whole situation of the dynamics was stressful and there was only so much I could handle. I visited rarely and only when my husband could come with me, because I could not handle the drive or being alone with my parents.  

I don't think Dad understood and BPD mother has said horrible things to me about not visiting as much as they thought I should, but they had no clue about what personal situations I was dealing with or how much their behavior affected me. BPD mother was able to paint me black to him, and to others.

He did reject me. I don't think I feared calling him before that because, I never imagined he'd do that and emotionally I was in pieces after that.  My H offered to drive me to go to the hospital where he was. I was too upset to drive. I didn't think he'd want to see me but accepted my H's offer. Dad was in a coma by the time we got there. I am grateful to have been able to have some time alone with him before BPD mother and her FOO came later. This gave me the chance to speak to him without her hearing it or interrupting me. Once my mother and her FOO arrived, I didn't feel I belonged there and so we left. Dad passed away soon after that. I didn't plan to attend the funeral because, I didn't think he'd want me there. However, my kids wanted to go, and so I went for them.

This is not how I wanted things to turn out. I understand your fear of being rejected. But here's the thing- had I not tried to make contact, I would not have known how it turned out. I also don't believe he, himself, really rejected me because I think he was responding to what my mother said to him.

You can decide if you can manage your SD's reaction but no matter how he reacts to you, you will know you tried because you don't really know what could happen.

[HappyChappy]

I'm not sure... I feel scared somehow. Not of him but of being rejected maybe...

That's understandable, I felt the same. But I'm glad I did reconnect. Why wouldn't your stepfather like to know you love him ? The closer to death you come, the more you want to reconcile. Even if he is difficult - you'll know you did your best. Never forget a BPD encourages us not to talk between ourselves, and encourages false beliefs, and unnecessary fear. But what do you or your stepfather have to lose ?

[Notwendy]

I agree with Happy Chappy. He may reject you but he may not. It's on the chance that he may not that I think it is worth trying. You don't know unless you try.

No matter what he says- he still hears what you have to say to him. I hope my father could hear me, even if at that point he could not reply. And, importantly,  you will know you tried.

Although it didn't turn out the way I wished, I know, on my part, I cared about my dad. I also believe at some point, he cared about me. Our relationship is the sum of years, not a part of all of them.

Even though I don't think his behavior was the "real him" and I have forgiven him for it ( don't hold resentment for him- I wish him peace ), I also felt anger at times. How could he have done that? I learned more about relationships with a severely BPD person, what drove his behaviors? I saw he was co-dependent when I had to deal with my own co-dependency. He was human. Humans are not perfect.

This was a difficult time for him. He was dealing with a lot. BPD mother's behaviors were escalating. I had to keep a distance for my own well being and to be able to care for my own children. I didn't always do or say the best thing at the time. Maybe he didn't either.

I hope your step father is thrilled to hear from you. If he isn't- it's not due to you, but him reacting to difficult circumstances.

[todayistheday]

I have not gone 'no contact' with my h-BPD mother for that reason.  I do minimize it, however.  If she outlives my Dad, then no contact may begin.

My sweet Dad, who has been her scapegoat for over 60 years still lives under the same roof.  She threatened suicide when he tried to divorce her in the 1980s, but she hates him.  He's pretty much delegated to the Bonus room in their huge, 4 bedroom house - that has both formal areas and family areas.

His having a cell phone is the key in my maintaining relationship with him.  I talk to him on his cell several times a week. Mom is aware and does not like it.  He said that she does not know how much we talk.  He tells her that we are talk about our common hobby which has a group of friends and activities to go with it (which we do).  She won't use her cell phone, so if I have to talk to her, I use house phone.  To talk to him, I use his cell phone.  I have become his confidante because I am about the only person he has a relationship with now.

Edited to add: They are both in their 80s and starting to show their ages.  They are in a lot better conditions than most people their ages. The Covid cut-off (she totally isolated herself and him for almost a year) took it's toll on them.  I know that they would be slowing down at this age anyway, but I think that the isolation accelerated it. 

[podsnapG]

This is an interesting thread, and an issue that must be on the minds of NC people, especially during Covid. I’m NC with my brother and uBPD SIL. We are in our 60’s now, so I think about what I would do should he (or I) become gravely ill. Like you all, if I could have time alone with my brother, I could tell him I love him, at least. She would not let him be alone with me, and he wouldn’t either, as he’s completely on board with her. What NotWendy said about displaced anger applies here. He’d probably be so deeply angry that it wouldn’t help his health! (Or mine.)

Another part of this topic: have you thought about if you were dying — would you want to see your disordered family members? I would not. It seems so heartless, but I think I’d have a panic attack. I’m writing a new POA for healthcare decisions, so my brother and SIL will not be enlisted to make decisions for me. I have no kids, so it’s my husband and a trusted cousin. Death is so final. This is a difficult topic! Another brother of mine recently passed, who had long term drug addiction. I was not in contact with him for many years. I do have regrets now that I didn’t talk to him once in a while, even though he was difficult to reach. Todayistheday, I would try to call your Stepdad when your mom is out, if that will ease your heart.