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Author Topic: extinction burst?  (Read 252 times)
StartingHealing
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« on: June 21, 2022, 11:35:59 AM »

Hello y'all,

Wondering about extinction burst length of duration?  I think that it's going on longer than previous because I'm not kowtowing to her and am standing up for myself some. 

Would like to hear from others on this please.

Thanks
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StartingHealing
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 02:04:53 PM »

Hello y'all,

Wondering about extinction burst length of duration?  I think that it's going on longer than previous because I'm not kowtowing to her and am standing up for myself some. 

Would like to hear from others on this please.

Thanks

I have also realized that she is attempting to "punish" me by attempting to go as uncommunicating as possible.
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PeteWitsend
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 02:47:59 PM »

I don't know what your home dynamic is like, in terms of personal space, and whether there are kids there. 

But whenever the silent treatment started, I learned almost to enjoy it.  Like I'd refuse to play along and let her stew, and just go do what I wanted to do after our D was asleep... go read, play video games, watch a movie, whatever!  It was better than having to sit and hear about all the reasons she couldn't be happy with me.

After a few days of that, when she'd see I was fully withdrawn that she's want to talk and apologize with the caveat that I also had to bear some of the blame for whatever. 

Then everything would be okay for a couple days, until her disordered emotional responses to things set her off about something and she'd pick a fight, and then follow it up with another week of silent treatment.
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 04:49:42 PM »


But whenever the silent treatment started, I learned almost to enjoy it.  Like I'd refuse to play along and let her stew, and just go do what I wanted to do after our D was asleep... go read, play video games, watch a movie, whatever!  It was better than having to sit and hear about all the reasons she couldn't be happy with me.


Yes! I also found this process quite enjoyable at times. Because I was building up my self-confidence and learning about self-care with the support of the good folk on here. Something clicked within me as people kept repeating, “her feelings don’t have to be your feelings…”

I realised that, though I was often upset or angered by my wife’s words and behaviour.. I still had the choice. I could do what I’d always done.. get upset, “I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to upset you.. please talk to me, please forgive me, please love me… actually I know I said about that new boundary but we can renegotiate it a little… etc etc”

Or I could…  Way to go! (click to insert in post) say very little and walk away. The added bonus was that I would use my time alone to feel stronger and more confident by doing things my wife didn’t like me doing like playing the piano. And of course another bonus was that going for a walk or playing the piano was so good for my mental health. Breathe deeply. Get some fresh air. Remember how I used to love being outside or playing the piano, these things calm me.

Honestly her behaviours went on and on. But I learnt how to deal with it better. The more I “left” her on such occasions, the better she started behaving and treating me. I turned a corner after about 8 months of advice from bpd family, when I realised my wife had actually become easier to deal with as a person (purely in response to the skills I had learnt here.)

 A turning point for me when I knew things were getting better, was on my daughter’s birthday when my wife berated me for spending too long FaceTiming my parents. “You could have just had daughter open one present on FaceTime.. now we don’t have time to go swimming and the day is ruined” (rather than 3 presents or whatever). “Could have” is still one of my wife’s much used expressions.. But whilst it used to incite a full blown row JADE in full force from me… I wasn’t sure how to respond on my daughter’s birthday. I said, “mmm” thoughtfully, making confident eye contact with her. I was astounded when she let it go. From then on things have been easier. My whole story is on here if you’re interested.
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StartingHealing
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2022, 08:13:52 AM »

I don't know what your home dynamic is like, in terms of personal space, and whether there are kids there. 


No kids under 18, had one that moved back in due to the fallout of the pandemic, he's getting back on his feet.  Him and I have had many conversations concerning his mother.  He has expressed how much he appreciates having me in his life. (I came into his life when he was 13) 

With what I know now,  I'm trying to give him the information so he can start the healing process for himself.  The expression of the personality disorder in his mother, (my spouse)  has messed with him.  Seemingly in deeper ways than with me.

Have a smallerish house, but have a fairly large back yard, and there are many locations that are close, (5 min drive time) Library, multi-generational center, parks, city pools.  It's not like we are in a 300 sq ft apartment. Have 1 dog.  He's the bestest.
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 08:52:31 AM »

Yes! I also found this process quite enjoyable at times. Because I was building up my self-confidence and learning about self-care with the support of the good folk on here. Something clicked within me as people kept repeating, “her feelings don’t have to be your feelings…”

I realised that, though I was often upset or angered by my wife’s words and behaviour.. I still had the choice. I could do what I’d always done.. get upset, “I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to upset you.. please talk to me, please forgive me, please love me… actually I know I said about that new boundary but we can renegotiate it a little… etc etc”

Or I could…  Way to go! (click to insert in post) say very little and walk away. The added bonus was that I would use my time alone to feel stronger and more confident by doing things my wife didn’t like me doing like playing the piano. And of course another bonus was that going for a walk or playing the piano was so good for my mental health. Breathe deeply. Get some fresh air. Remember how I used to love being outside or playing the piano, these things calm me.

Honestly her behaviours went on and on. But I learnt how to deal with it better. The more I “left” her on such occasions, the better she started behaving and treating me. I turned a corner after about 8 months of advice from bpd family, when I realised my wife had actually become easier to deal with as a person (purely in response to the skills I had learnt here.)

 A turning point for me when I knew things were getting better, was on my daughter’s birthday when my wife berated me for spending too long FaceTiming my parents. “You could have just had daughter open one present on FaceTime.. now we don’t have time to go swimming and the day is ruined” (rather than 3 presents or whatever). “Could have” is still one of my wife’s much used expressions.. But whilst it used to incite a full blown row JADE in full force from me… I wasn’t sure how to respond on my daughter’s birthday. I said, “mmm” thoughtfully, making confident eye contact with her. I was astounded when she let it go. From then on things have been easier. My whole story is on here if you’re interested.

You are correct.  Her feelings don't have to be my feelings.  Thank you thankful, I know that you had a tough go of it with your spouse.  Where you are at the moment is a very hopeful thing.

 I'm conflicted.  I mean, WwBPD does have a mental issue, and my responses to her behaviors haven't been the best up till maybe a few months ago.  At the same time, I ended up becoming enmeshed in her "stuff"  to a point where I was losing doing things that I enjoyed.  Which it appears fed into her dysregulation, and so here I am attempting to put myself back into some kind of shape.  Not for her, but for me. I don't know how all of this is going to work out.  I mean, it appears that she has a black hole that she is attempting to fill. 

Now she is at least talking / texting in a friendly manner.   Will see what happens.  I still love her but at the same time I need to love myself first, right?
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 05:14:43 PM »

You are correct.  Her feelings don't have to be my feelings.  Thank you thankful, I know that you had a tough go of it with your spouse.  Where you are at the moment is a very hopeful thing.

 I'm conflicted.  I mean, WwBPD does have a mental issue, and my responses to her behaviors haven't been the best up till maybe a few months ago.  At the same time, I ended up becoming enmeshed in her "stuff"  to a point where I was losing doing things that I enjoyed.  Which it appears fed into her dysregulation, and so here I am attempting to put myself back into some kind of shape.  Not for her, but for me. I don't know how all of this is going to work out.  I mean, it appears that she has a black hole that she is attempting to fill. 

Now she is at least talking / texting in a friendly manner.   Will see what happens.  I still love her but at the same time I need to love myself first, right?

I was also in a mess when I first met my wife. I had always suffered with low self esteem and low self respect. But my self hated hit an all time high when I left my ex for her. He was devastated and I felt I could never be happy because I didn’t deserve it. I couldn’t discuss these huge feelings with my wife, or anyone really because I didn’t want anyone to know maybe I regretted what I got myself into with her. And shortly after I cut off contact with many people due to wife’s jealousy anyway.

So loving myself is hard as ever, but as I mentioned before I try to talk to myself like a small child and I like the term “looking after myself”. The people at bpd family helped tremendously in getting my confidence up. With my wife and all these things I was forbidden to do, I managed to gain the confidence to do them… Video calling my parents was not exactly banned, but she would always react in anger afterwards for some random unrelated reason, so it never felt like a good time so I never did it. At first when my wife got angry, I’d be all over the place in my head trying to think, “what have I learnt? What am I supposed to say?” But the fact that I paused and said nothing seemed to be validating in itself. That is why I often just say, “mmm”. Like on daughter’s birthday, as I looked at her and said “mmm”, I was thinking to myself, “aha. You have no power over me. Because I KNOW that I have the right to video call my parents whenever I want for as long as I want. And I’m not going to argue or apologise about it.” This was the opposite of when I used to say things to my mum like, “I can’t video call on daughter’s birthday because we are too busy”, even though these feelings and decisions were my wife’s and not mine.

You mention that you fed into your wife’s dysregulation. I absolutely feel this too. So when I responded as a sane not enmeshed person, confident to be me and not apologise for things just because she wasn’t happy with them… it has actually made her become more sane. I spent all these years trying to change her. But then since I changed me, she actually has changed in response. I look back now and I can’t believe what a mess we were in with me not being allowed to take photos of my children or send them to my mum. It was my mum’s devastation over this that set me on the right path to change things. Like many people I take photos of my children nearly every day now, and share them with my mum whenever I want.. And I’m so happy about it.  Way to go! (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2022, 08:13:36 PM »

Thank you Thankful Person. 

My self esteem, while it's not the best currently, it's better than it has been in a while.  There was a time, maybe 15 years or so ago that her over the top emotionality against me, had broken me down to a point where I didn't care what I looked like when I would go out.  I just flat did not care. At the time I felt that I was just the fixit man.  She still claims that I am not "engaged" in reality and that I have lots of filters to push everything through.   I wonder why that is??

Well, it's still an ongoing thing.  She says that she is actively looking for someone else to jump to.  Has 10 men that want her supposedly. (online)  I can not control her so I'm not attempting to but it appears in her mind that indicates that I don't care enough to try to do .... Something?  If I get upset then that proves X but not what she is claiming to want which is "connection" to me. 

At the moment, I wish she would find some other sucker. 

I'm proud of myself, I didn't respond in a emotionally charged way with the yelling at me that she usually does when her emotions boil over.

Rules for me but not for thee is still in full effect.  I was talking to a family member, part of my support crew, and I was in the neighborhood and was finishing up the call on the side of the road in a pull off area and she drove up from seeing a "friend".  She got upset seeing me on the phone. 

First words out of her mouth when I got to the house was a demand for who I was talking to.  I told her and that he called me and then she launched into a thing.  Well, the dog needed his play time with me so I went outside.  And she had gotten on my butt previously, many times, because to her, I could be "real" with the family member that called but couldn't be "real" to her.  That was a hour long lecture... each time.   You are this, you are that, you are broken.. (repeating pattern here)

I really don't think that she has any concept of what she does to others around her.  The controlling nature, the shaming, the belittling, the gaslighting, the creative editing of memories to fit into the emotional context that she feels at the moment, not to mention some attempted bullying, and if sh-t isn't done exactly her way.. Here comes a lecture.  You are this, you are that, you think this way, you believe that,   Hm, maybe part of this is why people don't open themselves up to you?  I know, I'm being a bit snarky with that. 

About 30 minutes later, back in from playing with my doggy

More of the same verbal salad.  It was quite clear that she was upset due to me having a phone call in a manner that seemed to her that I was "keeping" it from her.  Like she's not doing the same thing with social media, text messages and the like.  Rules for thee not for me.

I do understand very much how sex is important in a relationship.  But damn it,  when her satisfaction is 100% my responsibility,  When it doesn't matter what happened last time, when certain positions are out of the question because of physical limitations, when I have been shamed because she didn't get satisfaction, and then add in the emotional sh-t on top of that..

The sexual confidence I have left is very very low.  And then the question is do I want to do something that very likely will end with a lecture, or complaints about how it could have been better for her, or ?????  Since according to her all I need is a place.  Women need a reason. 

At the moment, I do not want to have sex with her.  Maybe, perhaps, if the funny, flirty, fun part would come out?  Even when that part came out, after the session, immediate clean up.  No cuddle, no basking in the afterglow, even when using condoms, immediate clean up. There were many times I felt like the male android in the movie A.I. I was an carbon based object.

Meanwhile, I'm keeping my cool, because her emotions don't have to be my emotions.  I'm still feeling my emotions, the anger, the pain, the sense of betrayal from her not having enough space for me to be me.  If that makes any sense? And that was my fault for not standing up for myself at those times.  How do I forgive myself for throwing myself under the bus?

I realized once again that I am funny, kind, smart, patient, loyal, like doing for those I love, a capable person, decently looking, can be a leader but not domineering, usually open to negotiations, thoughtful, and a romantic.
 But that person got beat almost to death.

I would get a flower on the way home from work, just because, or I would make it a point to go to the store to get her a favorite ice cream. We did picnics, eating out, going to different parks, playing on the swings, date nights, she would bring me lunch at work occasionally,  we would talk for hours, Even when things got tight $ wise I still figured something out.  A note that I wrote that I would stash somewhere so she would find it later, a hand made card,  working OT to get some extra so we could just take a drive somewhere.  but then the flower wasn't enough, the ice cream was making her fat, picnics had bugs, and over and over again. 

She did let it slip that she had a lunch with a guy today.  You know, I do not wish the hell I have been through on anybody.  But they are adults and if they so choose to then by all means.  She also mentioned that she was working on getting a "date" for tonight.

She says that she wants to "communicate" but then, if its not in line with whatever expectation she had / has .. 

 She expressed today that I should have been sharing my innermost thoughts / feelings with her and also that I should know everything to do to keep his wife happy.  I don't think she has ever been happy.  Truly happy.  She's a lot like her mother in that way. 

Yep, no responsibility there at all.  Which is typical for her.  All the authority but no responsibility.   

I admit that I am not blameless in this. But damn, I was flying blind.  I had no idea of what to do, what not to do, and I sure didn't know about having a strong social network or the tools, or anything.  All I knew about mental illness was "person strange stay away"   

It's been 25 years since we first got together.  And it's only been recently that I have figured out that while I have my issues, I'm a really good guy that is in a relationship with a emotionally dysregulated person.   

As I type this, I'm in the office, while she is out on the couch working her phone attempting to get what she claims she never got from me.

Had a really good conversation with stepson last night while she was out on a "date".  He indicated that his mother has been some version of this as far back as he can remember.  Also that it's getting worse.  That is really really concerning.  You know?  From multiple angles.  Firstly, I sensed but did not recognize that. Then if she is getting more severe?
IDK.  I flat don't know any more.  Like now what?  Very Very conflicted. 

Thanks for letting me express myself here, my thanks to the people here.

Peace
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2022, 04:19:52 PM »

Starting healing,
I know that you have been doing so much learning and your attitude has changed with understanding you are not the problem and that is good. I wonder if your wife is going through menopause or if her bpd reactions are getting worse for hormonal reasons. My wife was at her absolute worst in the first few months after our first was born, and whilst pregnant with our second. She still isn’t happy with me in many ways apparently. Especially the sex. Even though I’m not a man, I feel like every time I try something I’ve been highly criticised for it in the past and my wife also has physical issues and pain. And I’d rather just avoid it tbh even though she is calmer and we’re on better terms it is still hard to regain any confidence. I’m glad you are building a god relationship with her son and I expect that it’s helping him a lot. I am so determined to help my children, they are still so little but when they’re older there will be questions why Mummy got so angry and shouted etc. I’m also glad you have your dog. We have a dog, he is my wife’s dog really but he became closer to me after the babies arrived and she is jealous of that. I love him so much though, aren’t dogs great!
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2022, 10:06:47 PM »

Thankful Person,   Going to be a long one.

Yes, she's in menopause.  It's been over a year since we had attempted to have sex.  I started to initiate and was denied.    As a guy, ... I find myself shaking my head over how much her emotional dysregulation has affected me.  Seriously, my reactions to her behavior on the one hand was totally normal for someone that had no clue but it appears that those reactions fed into her "data bank" of supposed wounds that I had done to her. 

I've been close to death on several occasions.  Maybe even did kick the bucket and came back.  Don't know for sure on that.  But that did shift me into being a person that is pretty easy going.  Is it really serious? Like life/death,   serious injury,   broken bones,   then is it going to matter in 5 years?   That seemingly fed into her hurt locker as well.  Right now it seems like every single freaking thing that I did, EVER,  since when we got together went directly into her hurt locker.

She's still deep into her emotional storm.  Even after she has stated that she's looking for a replacement for me.. or at least sex,  she's still here.  Wonder what that is all about?   I don't know.  I'm not certain on how this is going to buff out but I do know that no matter the result, I'll be ok.   

I have found myself thinking about how not having to deal with the seemingly ever present conflict would be really nice.   The conflict .. didn't seem to matter, it was always something.  A person, a place, a phone call, ????? would set her off and I'm supposed to not notice and feel sexually attracted to her in that moment?

I know that according to her, I'm the person that didn't attempt to "push" the issue as far as sex earlier in our relationship, but this is also coming from someone that has also claimed that she was sexually assaulted as a teen.  And I'm supposed to over look that and like be more sexually aggressive?  Like what? 

But she is the one that has no responsibility for anything. 

Found this
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

and it's really scary on how accurate this is for my situation. 

"Love - the Vulnerable Seducer Phase
She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire."

"Love - the Clinger Phase
Her intense interest in you will subtly transform over time. She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her."

"Love - the Hater Phase
To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

  Back and forth between the hater phase and the clinger phase. for many many years. No rhythm or reason that I could see at the time.

Yeah, same old complaints from her.  She felt the need to express herself in text and verbally again this day.  She has got herself some support from people who are into the mermaid thing.  Damnedest thing, she can talk to anyone about us but heaven help me if I wanted to talk to somebody.. About anything.  Shaming language, guilt, asking questions but doesn't want an answer because I'm a false person, and supposedly I have all kinds of addictions. 

I do not do so good with interpersonal conflict.  I really don't.  Not going to physical action is difficult for me.   

She did admit that I was a good husband in all areas except for the bedroom. 

Here is a question for anybody on this board.  Is going to sleep facing your partner a sign that you are in love with them?  This isn't a cuddle thing.  And facing away from your partner means that you don't love them?  Like huh?

Yeah, according to her, I wasn't there for the kids, I wasn't there for this, that, the other damn thing, but strangely enough, the kids don't really like her, but they are cool with me.  Like holidays, we would start decorating but then ... outburst, lecture, etc. etc.  And she wonders why we backed off and let her lead it. 

I admit that I did engage in behaviors that gave me relief from her outbursts over the years.  Again, I was flying blind.

If things go the way it looks like, she may find a new supply to jump to.  Which at the moment, would be really nice. 

I am surprised how weary I am. 

Peace
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2022, 10:02:56 AM »

I did some things today for myself.  I'm proud that I did it.  I took action to reconnect to people that I had withdrawn from. 

It's nuts how the fear, obligation, guilt, got worked into my brain. 

Seriously, I was afraid of WwBPD reactions if she found out that I had called these people...  Who did provide some confirmation on WwBPD having what she has. 

I'm PROUD.  I was scared but did it anyway! 

YEA! ME!!
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2022, 06:05:34 PM »

We definitely went through those phases too. The piano is a good analogy actually because my wife went from loving me playing the piano to being indifferent to me playing the piano to hating me play the piano and one song I wrote for her she has always refused to hear it.

My wife seriously spoke about finding new sex partners for a long time but she never actually did it…  I do understand your feeling that maybe life would be so much easier if you weren’t with her.

Anyway big Congratulations for getting in touch with those people!! What I found made it easier actually, was the good folk on here teaching me that I didn’t have to ask permission from my wife for anything. I’m still watching how I say things. Because there are times when does still feel appropriate to ask your partner questions, “is it a good time for me to have a shower?” for example, reason being we are always looking after our little ones but I tend to say it more like, “I’m going to have a shower today, is now a good time or would later be better?” It’s scary how detached we become from a “normal” person’s reality and don’t know what’s normal anymore. That’s why it’s helps to maintain contact with others.

But about the permission thing, once I started breaking rules without asking permission, it became so much easier.. No more, “is it ok to call my mum?/is it ok to photograph the baby?/can I send this pic to mum?/is it ok if I have a shower now?” These 4 were my biggest concerns because the answer was always no. I  was “allowed” to shower or call mum when wife said. I was NEVER allowed to take baby pics or send them to my mother (but I would ask permission anyway…) I was NEVER allowed to play the piano so didn’t even bother asking about that. Once I stopped asking permission my wife eventually stopped challenging me on these things. Sometimes she didn’t even find out, but I’m sure she knew when I sent pics to mum cos she looks at my phone sometimes. My heart would beat so fast when I sent those pictures. But once I told her I would be sending pictures, apart from the several months she wanted a divorce over it, she never tried to tell me I shouldn’t do it.

Yes when we shared a bed I was often accused of not loving her due to not facing her. I have had shoulder surgery and suffer pain in both shoulders but the operated on one I can lay on more comfortably. My wife didn’t want me on the same side of the bed I was on with my ex, wtf. Which meant most of the time I was in pain if I faced her. So I would endure the pain but it isn’t possible to sleep like that. I’m having a few years off this issue while the babies sleep with her. I like having my own bed tbh. Her dog sleeps on the bed with me haha.
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2022, 11:22:37 PM »

Thankful Person,

Did some more 'me' stuff today.  Had lunch with my daughter. 

I don't know how this is all going to buff out but I was informed that wBPD has a guy that is flying out here to meet her.  Next week supposedly.  Going to spend a week with him and his kids at a hotel.  He is a widower.  Of course she's in full "fun, flirty, sexy mode" with him.  Which from what I know of her history is her typical pattern.  She was never without a male companion for very long.  At the moment, I really hope that she moves forward with that guy and follows what she has said that she is going to do.  Leave, and I'll stay in the house.  She's demanding a stipend / maintenance (monthly) and then she gets her share of the $ after selling the house.  Of course this will have to be done legally.

Perhaps I will grieve the ending of this relationship later on but at this time, I feel a lot more free than I have in a very very long time.  That is worth sleeping on the couch for.

She states that this person is healing her heart from all the neglect that I had done over the years.  I tried the best I could. After a certain point I just couldn't push past the potential of more shaming, rage, gaslighting, to be sexually intimate with her. 

  I wish that we both find happiness. 

The laundry list of how "damaged" I am, how I made her "crazy" , how I need help, how I'm the broken one, how I couldn't get out of my own pain to see her pain and take action so I could remove her pain from her...
(meanwhile, when I did go to a therapist, hypnotherapist, or something else, it was a "thing" for her.) Even when I talked to her about it, there was the whole "why can't you talk to me about X? I'm your WIFE, etc. etc. etc"  I would stick it out to the extent I could but after 30 / 45 days of unrelenting pressure from her, (Including keeping me from sleeping) I would cave in.
 
Oh yeah and how I will never find another gal as good as her.  After being through this experience, you bet I'm not going to find another like her. 

Been really really puzzling over some things,  and I think that I figured some of it out. 

Mind you that this is my attempt to decode verbal salad and I'm sure that I'm missing some large chunks.

The biggest thing I gathered was what I had suspected for a long time.  She has a need to control everything.  In her thinking it probably has the best intentions but when it gets to a point where there are arguments over something like toothbrush direction in the container (they lay flat) that is in the drawer?  And she would organize, and then organize and then re-organize.  OCD? IDK.  It would get to a point where she couldn't remember where she put stuff.  And then someone was the a$$hole that moved her stuff. 

Now extend that out to every. single. thing.  Music, food, clothes, shoes, tv shows, books, movies, people, jobs, cars, everything that didn't "fit" into her pre-determined vision of what X is supposed to be, then she would bend her rage and manipulating, gaslighting, etc. to attempt to force me into that <ideal>

It appears that in this ideal, a husband has to be XYZ.  It appears that it's also one directional.   And it seems to be that her ideal is some sort of concept from a romantic comedy movie plus some romance novels thrown in.

It felt like I couldn't be my own person.  To her I couldn't have my own thoughts, feelings, likes, dislikes, hobbies, emotions, friends, family because of this inflexible frame work that she had constructed and if any behavior went outside that framework then she would bring the pain.  Oh did I mention that she over thinks the living crap out of everything.  Plus she's got a touch of paranoia. 

During lunch with my daughter, she discussed on how to my daughter, wBPD didn't have BPD but that she is Narcissistic. But agreed that it's also 100% victim mode.  I can see that.

  My thanks to all the people here.  I do appreciate it.  I am thankful that I was able to express my feelings here to people that understand.
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