Looking for people who can relate

[Jane13]

I have been looking for in-person support groups for a year and they just don’t exist where I live, so I’ve signed up here. After a 20+ year marriage I finally stumbled on information about personality disorders, and suddenly my whole life made sense. Three years ago I took the brave step to separate from my spouse and enjoyed a year or two of feeling so incredibly happy. However after you understand PDs you can’t unsee reality…I realized about a year ago my young adult daughter was showing the same BP traits as her dad…lack of a clear identity, manipulation, emotional blackmail. Through Covid, I caved to her demands more than I should have. Last year, I finally started setting some boundaries, and she cut me off completely. She has moved to a new city and won’t tell me her address. When I declined to send her money last year she said I was lucky she wasn’t homeless and doing sex work. (Even tho she has a university education her dad and I paid for)…Friends often say this is just a phase but I think it’s more than that. It’s hard to talk to people who don’t understand personality disorders. I have been seeing a therapist for 2 years so I have someone great to talk to…I just thought it might be nice to post here. It’s hard not being able to talk to my daughter’s dad about it.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[brokenmama]

Jane, I can relate.  I have both a son and daughter who I most recently believe have BPD.  My son brought it to my attention and self diagnosed so we're in the process of confirming that and proceeding accordingly. My daughter doesn't have a clue that she has some of these traits. Mental illness is in my ex-husbands family as well.  I am semi-estranged from my daughter but she never fails to call me in crisis.  My son has struggled with drug addiction for about 10 years but is currently, solidly in recovery (for about 5 years). BPD is kind of the aftermath from all of that.  It explains why he got into it in the first place.  But HOLY COW!  What revelations!  I'm struggling with it...parental guilt, etc. but I too am in therapy to help me cope.  I am learning about appropriate boundaries which is very hard because I am most certainly a former enabler...I learned about that through the addiction process.  If I'd known being a parent was going to be so very difficult this way, I don't think I would have ever had kids.  Don't get me wrong...I love my children to the depths of my soul.  But it has been so hard. I just long for this to be more manageable. It is very stressful right now.  My husband is not really understanding all of this so I'm kind of alone in coping with it. Its good to talk to someone who might be in the same place.  Wendy

[Jane13]

Hi Wendy, thanks for your kind and empathetic reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you have a difficult relationship with both of your children. I can't imagine what it's like to see your child addicted to drugs and so unhappy. I know that my daughter uses drugs but I don't think she has an addiction...yet...but I could be wrong about that. And I can relate to you regarding the parental guilt...When I started seeing BPD traits in my daughter, I beat myself up, wondering "What if I'd left her dad when she was a child and remarried someone who was a better role model?" So many questions that I can never answer. Her father was in the military and was away from home for most of the first three years of her life. 20 years ago we didn't know what a tragic effect that could have on a child. There were so many resources we didn't have on this topic. I'd never even heard of BPD or NPD back then.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Sorry you're going through this. Addiction is another layer on top of BPD that makes it difficult to pinpoint where problems are coming from.

Also - it's probably not the 3 years away that pushed her toward BPD traits. Children often grow up without one or both parents and also without BPD. More likely it's the way her father acted when he WAS around that gave her a model for some of these things. But that's not as important now as what you're doing - focusing on the future and working on coping tools.

You're on the right track - hang in there.

[brokenmama]

I am sorry your daughter moved to another city and hasn't even told you where she is living.  I can't imagine how that must hurt although sometimes their being away is good for both.  Truly, our kids need to learn how to manage on their own and likewise, I think we need some distance just to keep our sanity.  Through my daughters on again, off again estrangement I found this website rejectedparents.net.  They are a community of parents who have been estranged from their children for a variety of reasons.  There is a forum there just like this one where parents post their concerns.  It has been an encouragement to me.  I share it in case it is something you may benefit from.  A lot of the parents there are struggling with the senseless logic their kids are using to define them as toxic and justify walking away.  The website owner has written a book called Done with the Crying (Sheri MacGregor) and it too is very helpful.

I'm in the process of reading Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randi Kreger and Paul Mason.  Have you read that?  It is so good! Its helping me to evaluate where I'm at emotionally with all of this and it is revelational. I have so much to learn.  She talks about the 3 C's and the 3 G's; I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. Get off their back, get out of their way and get on with your own life. Such great advice!  

Both books encourage parents to get on with their lives and live their best life despite the problems of our children.  I'm learning what that means.  Most certainly its what I need to do.

I look forward to hearing what you have learned and how you are coping.  I wish you well!

Wendy

[Jane13]

Hi Wendy, thanks for your encouraging reply. I always appreciate book recommendations, bc I'm a huge reader. It turns out I've read both of the books you mentioned, and they were both really helpful. I recently read the Eggshells book for the second time and the workbook as well. Another book I've found really useful is "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents." Books on BPD have been a lifesaver, and I feel like I've learned better communication skills from them - I just haven't had a chance to try them out yet in person!

Thank you also for recommending the online forum for estranged parents. I remember looking into that forum about six months ago, but I never posted there. I have seen Reddit articles making fun of that forum, saying it's full of abusive parents who are in denial about what they did. There may be some, but I think many are just parents like us in their 50s, 60s and 70s who are baffled that the culture has shifted to such an extreme that what was once considered "annoying" behavior is cited as a reason to cut off all contact. I wrote to my own daughter that I'd just like to have an adult friendship with her, not to give advice, etc., and she replied that there was nothing about me that would make her want to be my friend! That was tough to hear, because I didn't sense that kind of intense animosity from her until the pandemic, when she started using social media much more often.

I am really fortunate to have a handful of very close friends of many different ages, some much younger and some much older. I hope that you also have a good network of friends who provide companionship and encouragement even if they can't relate to your specific situation.

[brokenmama]

Thank you as well for the book recommendation!  I am soaking up most everything I can to understand this.  I didn't realize the Eggshells book had a workbook.  I'll have to check into that! 

I hadn't seen the reports on the estrangement site at all.  I have encountered some individuals I believe were rationalizing the reasons for estrangement and sadly there will be those.  But most are, as you mentioned, people who have honestly done their best in raising their children only to be estranged for a variety of reasons.  Society is trending in parental toxicity...so much so that even good parents are being labeled as such.  In my instance, I can see now how mental illness has played its part in my relationships with my children.  I think two of my 4 have BPD issues and those are the ones who have put distance there.  Quite honestly, coming to understanding about BPD, I'm learning how my responses to them might be triggering, etc.  I have so much to learn...

I hope your days are going well!

[Jane13]

You are so right when you say things are trending toward “parental toxicity.” I really am trying to take responsibility for the things I got wrong, as we all do make mistakes. I’m also trying to recognize how things I said in the past may have been invalidating to my BPDd so that I can stop doing that in the future.

[Tanager]

It is indeed important to own up to our mistakes. My husband has been an involved, supportive and loving father - always there for his kids. He loves to have fun with his family. Yet he could also be harsh and critical at times - not a good fit for an ultra-sensitive child. As a mother I was nurturing and supportive.  Yet because my husband was so decisive and strong I realized I deferred to him too much and allowed him to be too harsh at times.

So parental mistakes were made, and we have apologized for them.  I don't feel we were abusive, but my daughter does. She also believes some horrendous things that never happened that break my heart. 

My own mother lived through poverty, abandonment and abuse as a child. Yet she herself was a loving mother.  She has been my role model.  She wasn't perfect but knowing she did the best she could is enough.  I think we all can look back on our childhoods and complain.  We could probably find instances of "toxic parenting."

[Galadriel]

I can relate to so much of what you have shared here in your post and replies. I am estranged from my daughter. During covid she submerged herself into social media and met a man online. This escalated her behaviors and things got very bad. I didn't cut her off, she cut me off and moved out of state to be with him. Now I observe on social media how she is doing the same things she was doing while living with me - not maintaining a job, no friends, except now she has this man she met online to depend on for however long it lasts. She quit a good job in her new state, gets into conflicts with people online, or posts in forums where others are posting about their "narcissistic parents," or not wanting to work for a living.

I waded through guilt about not leaving her father sooner and I blamed myself for far too much. Now I see that I did my best with the tools I had. I apologized for every mistake, but nothing was ever enough.  I left her father and got a domestic violence restraining order against him for 5 years, which consisted of a hearing she testified in, but now she includes me, a survivor, as a "narcissist". She knows the truth, but there is nothing I can do. Of course the man she's involved with had a girlfriend who contacted my daughter and tried to warn her that he was a "narcissist." We live in strange times for sure.

My family and my ex's family are rife with mental health issues, so while I hate this, I have to accept that her diagnosis is correct. She didn't accept it or want therapy. I was willing to undergo more therapy. I went for almost 2 years. I even offered  to get myself evaluated for personality disorders to prove to her I was willing to do whatever it took to have a healthy relationship with her. Estrangement hurts, but there is a sad peace to it because I am safe from her abuse. I still hope for the future and wish my daughter the best, but its very sad. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Jane13]

Galadriel, thanks for your kind reply and for sharing your story. I'm sorry you went through so much trauma with her father. It must be hard to see the things your daughter is posting on social media while being cut off from a real relationship. (My daughter has blocked me from her social media so I don't really have a window into her life that way). With regard to estrangement, you are right that there is also a "sad peace" to it. I hope the symptoms your daughter and mine are experiencing eventually subside. Until then, they might have to learn a lot of painful life lessons along the way.

Interestingly, my leaving her dad appears to be the best thing that has ever happened to him. Without me as a caretaker and enabler, he's been forced to take responsibility for himself. He went to a therapist to get help with the anger issues. He got a better job, bought a house, got physically fit, found hobbies, and made authentic friends for the first time in his life. According to my other child, he has learned how to manage his emotions and no longer tries to dominate conversations. These changes are encouraging and I'm pleased for him.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders