Advice to your non-Parent

[ZeroSumGames]

The boards have been very helpful for me as I have come to understand my experiences with my stbxBPDw, my dysfunctional roles as partner and parent, and decision to leave.  I have read non-Parents say that leaving was the best decision they made for themselves and kids.  I have read experiences of children of BPD parents later experiencing and processing feelings of resentment toward their non-BPD parent for not protecting them or enabling the behavior out of their own fear.  I want help on how to best support S6 and S8 and protect them.  I won't be there for them in the moment anymore, but a lot of the issues and dysregulations were between stbx and me in front of them.  I hope that removing me removes some of the household conflict at stbx's home and that I can create calm and stability in mine.  We have 50/50 custody and that is custom where we are.  stbx is high functioning and primarily emotionally needy and emotionally/verbally manipulative.  My questions are to the children of BPD parents:

1.  What do you wish your non-BPD parent would have done?

2.  If your parents divorced, what do you wish your non-BPD parent hadn't done during or after the divorce?

3.  What did your non-BPD parent do that most helped you?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Congratulations on your decisions and in prioritizing your children mental and emotional health in all this. In our societies, where grown children too often masquerade as adults, too often the real children are left to themselves. Your sons are lucky to have a parent that cares for them, and is aware.

I have a BPD mother whom my father separated from when I was three years old... For me;

1.  What do you wish your non-BPD parent would have done?

I wished my father would have listened to his therapist, but this will come back in Question #2.

Above all, I wished he would have realized that I was a young kid, and then a young teenager, that felt incredibly lonely. I wished he would have educated himself on my mother's illness and just how important he was to me, and I wished he would have given me actual tools to deal with my mother's caracter instead of this rule he upheld : "We don't talk about your mother in this house. What happens at your mother's house, stay at your mother's house." I ended up feeling even more lonely, because no one would listen to the unfairness I was confronted to as a very young child, no one guiding me through it and validating my feelings. He didn't want to hear about her, and she was always talking against him. I was confused, angry and abandoned without a parent to confide in.

2.  If your parents divorced, what do you wish your non-BPD parent hadn't done during or after the divorce?

My father focused on his girlfriends. He had a new girlfriend every year, most of them unhealthy. When a girlfriend came into our house, we were asked to move to the sides. I felt deeply abandoned by him again.

I am not saying your shouldn't date, but make sure to prioritize your children first and foremost while they are young. In the teenage years, it is less of an issue, but there is a healthy way to go about it. A healthy girlfriend will get it.

My father is the only one that made me feel safe and the only one that gave me happy memories... All of them happened within a few months, the months when he didn't have a girlfriend.

I get it, he felt lonely too. But he never saw the responsibility he had toward his own children. He trusted that we would find our own way, and that it didn't matter.

I remember crying my heart out after he canceled our father and daughter day to please his girlfriend. I won. He came. But why did I even have to cry in the first place? Made me feel he didn't truly want to spend time with me. We had ONE father/daughter day per summer. Only the one, and it meant the world to me.

I wished he would have realized just how important my safe relationship with him was to me, especially since I wasn't securely attached to my BPD mother, on account of her emotional instability.

Also, he assumed my mother treated us ok, that she was maternal enough and closed his eyes on the changes in behavior I started exhibiting. I couldn't talk about it, remember? Ended up severely abused sexually, physically and emotionally at my mother's house and he kept sending me there... I was angry at him for very long. He should have kept a close eye on the situation and keep me out of there as soon as I started having night terror and asking to sleep with him. He didn't. Assumed my mother was safe. He needed his time without his children to date...

A person's with BPD is rarely completely safe to be around for young children. Assume she is not safe, even if she is, andpay attentions to your children. Sometimes it is not them, sometimes it's the boyfriend. My brother was beaten up by one of my BPD mothers boyfriend... Again : dad closed his eyes. Did nothing. He had a duty to protect us.

As the same parent: you have a duty to protect them by paying attention and keeping the communication channel open.

3.  What did your non-BPD parent do that most helped you?

Music classes, buying me art supplies. He showed me a way to express my emotions through art and music. I composed a lot as a teenager, sad, depressive music, but I was getting it out. I wrote, I drew, I painted. He encouraged me to get it out through art and it helped tremendously.

Also he sent me to self help seminar, gave me spiritual books to read (the alchemist, the Ande prophety...). He talked about God, religion, life, gave a sense to my abuse in a way, a way forward... It wasn't for nothing, things could change for the better. He taught me about my inner power. Don't underestimate the importance of spiritual guidance and education, especially for teenagers that were abused as children.

 I hope this helps.

[ZeroSumGames]

Thank you so much for the reply.  It was one of your messages about how art helped you process your feelings that made me want to ask others. 

Above all, I wished he would have realized that I was a young kid, and then a young teenager, that felt incredibly lonely. I wished he would have educated himself on my mother's illness and just how important he was to me, and I wished he would have given me actual tools to deal with my mother's caracter instead of this rule he upheld : "We don't talk about your mother in this house. What happens at your mother's house, stay at your mother's house." I ended up feeling even more lonely, because no one would listen to the unfairness I was confronted to as a very young child, no one guiding me through it and validating my feelings. He didn't want to hear about her, and she was always talking against him. I was confused, angry and abandoned without a parent to confide in.

It sounds very lonely and isolating.  We parents are given seemingly contradictory advice about co-parenting and staying out of the other parent's business.  That advice probably is appropriate in most families, but much like guidance from marriage counselors, it doesn't really work in our situations.  There is some good advice in the parenting sections about how to address the behavior without alienating the other parent.  This seems to be a tricky area to navigate and one that changes as they get older.  I try to validate, I will continue and I will work to get better at it for them.

Also, he assumed my mother treated us ok, that she was maternal enough and closed his eyes on the changes in behavior I started exhibiting. I couldn't talk about it, remember? Ended up severely abused sexually, physically and emotionally at my mother's house and he kept sending me there... I was angry at him for very long. He should have kept a close eye on the situation and keep me out of there as soon as I started having night terror and asking to sleep with him. He didn't. Assumed my mother was safe. He needed his time without his children to date...

A person's with BPD is rarely completely safe to be around for young children. Assume she is not safe, even if she is, andpay attentions to your children. Sometimes it is not them, sometimes it's the boyfriend. My brother was beaten up by one of my BPD mothers boyfriend... Again : dad closed his eyes. Did nothing. He had a duty to protect us.

As the same parent: you have a duty to protect them by paying attention and keeping the communication channel open.

Thank you.  This is what I need to hear and be reminded of.  They still need protection even though I won't be there in the moment.  That sounds awful to have gone through and you and others who share these experiences are brave. 

Also he sent me to self help seminar, gave me spiritual books to read (the alchemist, the Ande prophety...). He talked about God, religion, life, gave a sense to my abuse in a way, a way forward... It wasn't for nothing, things could change for the better. He taught me about my inner power. Don't underestimate the importance of spiritual guidance and education, especially for teenagers that were abused as children. 

They are in therapy now and I retained the ability to keep them there.  I am grateful for that. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

You seem like a caring father, they are lucky to have you, aware and mindful.

One last thing to keep in mind is that... I don't think it possible for them to never unleash anger on you...

For example, my father often "complains" about how I didn't want to hear his side of the story but I would listen to my mother. And I explained him recently that I didn't want to listen to my mother talking behind his back either, but she gave me no choice. My father was safe to express anger at, and so I did. Often, I expressed ALL of it on him. Told him many very hurtful things.

My mother would fill my head, I was filled with negative emotions, and I am not proud to say I used him as my punching bag more often than not, because he was safe (this is as a young adult, before then I kept to myself).He didn't fight back, he didn't hurt me, he upheld his boundaries and stayed present at best he could. He had changed a lot by then, did a lot of self work and had a new wife, who is an amazing, truthful and attentive person.

Be prepared to see the "bad sides" of your children... They will need to express it at some point, and because BPD mothers are rarely safe, it is possible they unleash it on you, using what they learned from her.

But remember too that they will grow into adults, and life has a way to heal us, to help us see things clearly with time. And they will turn around, especially if you have been a safe, healthy parent that loved them. Trust them.

[Notwendy]

It's hard to imagine the road not taken. I think there would have been an entirely different set of circumstances had my parents divorced. My father stayed with my BPD mother. I also think I would have had different answers to your questions at different ages as children perceive their parents' relationship differently at different ages.

My parents stayed together through a long marriage into their elder years. My father is now deceased. The topic of divorce came up between them many times during their arguments and the drama dynamics between them was typical for what is seen here on the board. As young kids, this was scary. Children don't really understand why their parents would do this. By the time we were teens, we were thinking "just do it already". We would not have blamed my father for leaving if that is what he chose to do. I still had a limited understanding of their relationship. I perceived my mother as the main issue and my father as a victim of her behavior. Now I know it is more complicated than that.

What did Dad do that was most helpful? He was a parent to us. BPD mother is severely BPD and the "task of parenting" was not something she did much of, if any. So much of parenting is a series of small things that emotionally healthy parents do without much thought- take kids to school, help with homework, show up for school plays and sports, take us out to do fun things.

IMHO, the best thing my father did for us, and for our mother,  was to get us away from her at times. It seemed like almost every weekend we did fun things with Dad. BPD mother didn't come along. I realize now that Dad was probably getting us out of the house away from her. Being severely BPD, just being a normal kid doing silly kid things would likely upset her, so getting us away kept us safe and also gave her some space as well because I think she needed it. We went to parks, the zoo, movies, and favorite places to eat with Dad. We could also stay with his family sometime.

If my parents had separated when I was a teen, I would have requested to live with him.

So why didn't he leave? The idea that BPD mother was the sole problem was not entirely accurate. Dad was co-dependent. I didn't understand his part in it until I had to work on my own co-dependency as an adult. Being co-dependent was the role model of "normal" that I grew up with so I didn't fully understand it. Once I did, I was able to see their relationship in a different way, and this included understanding why he both protected us in some ways but also didn't stand up for us, why he aligned with BPD mother and why he allowed her to be abusive to us, and to him. I have empathy for his situation. I also wish better for him, but he also felt responsible for my severely BPD mother. I didn't realize the extent of her impairment. I think in some ways, he knew that we kids would be able to manage as adults but she can't, and so he chose her needs first.

Your kids will see a different path. By standing up for yourself, you are showing them how to do this and also that they are permitted to do this. You are giving them a safe space free from the drama between you and your mother. However, something led you to choose to have a relationship with someone with BPD. Probably the best thing you can do for your children is to look at your own role in this and why you chose this. People worry about the effects of a BPD parent on children, but co-dependent behaviors are modeled to them too. IMHO- the best thing you can do for your children is to work on your part in this, role model a different way- how to have emotionally healthy boundaries.
 

[ZeroSumGames]

My mother would fill my head, I was filled with negative emotions, and I am not proud to say I used him as my punching bag more often than not, because he was safe (this is as a young adult, before then I kept to myself).He didn't fight back, he didn't hurt me, he upheld his boundaries and stayed present at best he could. He had changed a lot by then, did a lot of self work and had a new wife, who is an amazing, truthful and attentive person.

Be prepared to see the "bad sides" of your children... They will need to express it at some point, and because BPD mothers are rarely safe, it is possible they unleash it on you, using what they learned from her.

While you aren't proud of taking it out on him, it sounds like he understood what was going on by then.  It can be hard to sit and hear hurtful words, and it sounds like he modeled boundaries and caring for you, by then.  It sounds like it took him a while to get there and you understandably have resentment toward him.

Your had to choose between holding it in or letting it out on your father.  Did he try and fix it for you, rescuer behavior, or did he give you the space to express it?

But remember too that they will grow into adults, and life has a way to heal us, to help us see things clearly with time. And they will turn around, especially if you have been a safe, healthy parent that loved them. Trust them.

My therapist told me that they would figure it out eventually.  When I asked when, he said about 21.  It felt like a punch to the stomach, but parenting is a long game. 

[ZeroSumGames]

My parents stayed together through a long marriage into their elder years. My father is now deceased. The topic of divorce came up between them many times during their arguments and the drama dynamics between them was typical for what is seen here on the board. As young kids, this was scary. Children don't really understand why their parents would do this.

I wish you hadn't experienced that much like I wish my kids had not.  Their mother would bring up divorce during arguments in front of the kids a couple times a year.  It was awful and I it took a while to understand that it was emotional manipulation. 

So why didn't he leave? The idea that BPD mother was the sole problem was not entirely accurate. Dad was co-dependent. I didn't understand his part in it until I had to work on my own co-dependency as an adult. Being co-dependent was the role model of "normal" that I grew up with so I didn't fully understand it. Once I did, I was able to see their relationship in a different way, and this included understanding why he both protected us in some ways but also didn't stand up for us, why he aligned with BPD mother and why he allowed her to be abusive to us, and to him. I have empathy for his situation. I also wish better for him, but he also felt responsible for my severely BPD mother. I didn't realize the extent of her impairment. I think in some ways, he knew that we kids would be able to manage as adults but she can't, and so he chose her needs first.

Yes.  This contains two of my major realizations over the past two years.  Therapy rather quickly pointed out my co-dependent behavior and it was delivered in a way that felt like it was so obvious, but I was clueless.  After I began working on that, I realized that I had been and was teaching the kids the same behavior.  In concert, we were trying to manage their mothers emotions.  I was trying to create calm, and had no real influence or business trying to manage her emotions.  I shouldn't have been doing that and the kids absolutely shouldn't have to caretake an adult.  Their mother still wants them to caretake her.  I just try and point out when it seems like they are more concerned with another person's feelings and that other people's feelings are their feelings and not the kids responsibility. 

I don't know your father or his experience, but it sounds similar to mine.  If he were co-dependent he could have been choosing her needs to manage his own feelings and attempting to make it better for you.  I can't say it worked for me or the kids, but it is a drama triangle dance.   

However, something led you to choose to have a relationship with someone with BPD. Probably the best thing you can do for your children is to look at your own role in this and why you chose this. People worry about the effects of a BPD parent on children, but co-dependent behaviors are modeled to them too. IMHO- the best thing you can do for your children is to work on your part in this, role model a different way- how to have emotionally healthy boundaries.

In looking back, I think co-dependent behavior was modeled in my FOO and my father was a rescuer.  So I have to push against a desire to rescue others and take care of their feelings.  It took this failed relationship, couples therapy and personal therapy to teach me how misguided that was and that I needed to be caring for and listening to myself.  I am grateful to have learned it.   Ignorance was not bliss.

[Notwendy]

By working on co-dependency, you are breaking the cycle. This was a big motivator for me. I agree that Dad's co-dependent behavior and enabling was him managing his own discomfort. I don't blame him for the role modeling at the time, as I don't think he was aware of it.  Little was known at the time about BPD or co-dependency. I think he believed that he was helping BPD mother and that we should also help her by being emotional caretaker. What is different now is that the information is available.

Even as a kid, I decided I would not act like BPD mother to my own children. Co dependency was brought to my attention when it was causing issues in my relationships- and so I also wanted to model different behavior to my own kids.

I understand what he was facing because, as an adult, I began to have boundaries with BPD mother and her reaction was difficult to experience. One thing that prompted me to make changes was that my kids were getting older and she was beginning to enlist them as emotional caretakers for her. I did not want to allow her to do this with my kids.

Even if the relationships are different, the Karpman triangle dynamics seem to be common to families where there is a disordered person. I really commend you for the work you are doing to change this pattern for yourself and your own children. While you can't change what they experienced before this, you are changing what you role model for them now and from here on.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Your had to choose between holding it in or letting it out on your father.  Did he try and fix it for you, rescuer behavior, or did he give you the space to express it?

He gave me space.

My father modeled growing self-awareness, growing emotional responsibility and authenticity. He believes his role as a father was to make us independant, and he would be there when we truly needed it (ish).

It is hard to describe... My father lead by exemple, in a way. He has projects, he has a life of his own, and he assumed we would get there too at some point. I say he didn't guide me, but then I feel like I am lying, because he gave me tools by sending me to those self help classes and via those books.

He never told me how I should be feeling, or invalidate me : he just never asked and didn't listen. On a certain level, he knew I was hurt, but he would walk away and help me indirectly via books, art and therapy.

On my end, it felt like if I wanted to have a relationship with my father, I had to be "perfect". It's not that he didn't care that I was hurt, it's that he didn't even know how to help himself, so how could he have helped us, directly that is? So when I was hurt, he'd step away, making me feel, unwillingly, like my negative emotions weren't welcome. I know today this is not what was going on, but this is how it came accross. I would have liked him to hug me when my best friend ran away, despite my look of not wanting to.. I showed strength and anger to hide my pain, and he would walk away from me instead of standing BY me.

He gave me space, but mainly because there was no alternative. My father's personality, in itself, is a bit schizoid. He is in his head. He is hard to connect to on an emotional level, because he shut down many years ago when he lost his family in a car crash.

He gave me space, but I am still unsure if it was a healthy space, or just because that's who he is?

Today, he is healthier than he has ever been, and if I need support, he can give it to me. Today, he listens, and today, he can give compassion and empathy, and kind words of support. This is alien to me, because this is something he just wasn't able to do when I was a teenager.

It was a detached space, when was I needed was a loving, connected space, it that makes sense? He just didn't know how to achieve it back then. Now he knows though, and I am grateful that he is modelling it for me now, as I became a mother myself. Truth be told, in the end : I am now the one breaking the cycle... I think he had been showing me the way all along.


Thank you so much for your questions and this thread... I've been processing a lot of things regarding my father those past few weeks and this is a tremendous help to be able to write it out... It is a bit cathartic to be talking to a father going through what my father went through, and to be able to express it. Hopefully it helps you as much as it helps me. You are helping me understand things on a much deeper level, just by having started this thread and asking those questions.

[Riv3rW0lf]

There was a lot of typos in my last message. I meant to say, I am NOT the one breaking the cycle, he did by showing me the way.

Also wanted to add that no parent is perfect and as adults, we can recognize when our parents were good enough. I can say what I needed back then, say what he could have done better, but in the end: he was perfectly imperfect, and he helped me get where I am right now.

Which you will also do for your sons because : you are awake. In the end, maybe this is all we need to be for them...not perfect, but aware.

[Couscous]

I wish my father would have emotionally divorced my mother rather than just legally.

I wish he would have got into therapy and enmeshment and codependency recovery.

I wish that he would have got a life and had his emotional needs met either through his second wife or friends rather than enmeshing with us kids. He married a cold, extremely emotionally avoidant woman who, as he recently explained to me, he was drawn to for that exact reason due to all the hysterics and neediness of my mother.

Your boys are very lucky to have a father like you.

[zachira]

My mother had BPD. I wish my father had gone to therapy for himself and learned how to be a better parent. My aunt did help me, when she talked with my father about how he put my golden sister on a pedestal and how I needed some attention. After that, dad really went out of his way to spend special one on one time with me The one incident that stands out in my mind, is one day when I had been fighting with mom, dad came to my room and told me he had tried to get mom to get help for her problems, and she refused. He said there is nothing I can do. I wish he would have gotten therapy for me. I was a very immature teenager compared to my peers. For mom, every normal act of her children of becoming a separate person from her and maturing was a threat to her. She came to my first job as a waitress, got me to wait on her, then called the boss over and told him what a terrible job I was doing (which I wasn't). The boss looked sad and uncomfortable, never said anything to me about mom's complaints about my work. Mom did not want any of her children to get married. She was terrible to all boyfriends and girlfriends of her children. Only my sister married, and mom treated her son-in-law like dirt even though he bent over backwards doing kind things for her when she was alive.
You are a caring father. Learning everything you can to be the best father you can to your children when your children's wellbeing is constantly challenged by their mother's BPD behaviors shows that you are able to put your children's wellbeing first. You may want to have your children in therapy from time to time, so no stone is left unturned.

[Notwendy]

A common wish of all these responses is- I wish my father had taken care of his own needs. Of course, kids have needs- but as they say on an airplane- put your oxygen mask on first. If the parent isn't taking care of their needs, it's hard to meet children's needs.

But kids don't stay at home, we grow up and leave. At this point, we don't need a parent like children do, but we still want a relationship with our parents- on an adult level. We care for their well being too.

Dad  put BPD mother's needs first, to the point where he didn't consider himself. Their relationship looked very difficult from the outside. Just like we sometimes wished for a loving stable mother when we were kids, I also felt sad for him that he didn't have a loving, stable, wife.

To be the best possible Dad- you need to be your best self and that includes taking care of you.

[ZeroSumGames]

Thank you so much for your questions and this thread... I've been processing a lot of things regarding my father those past few weeks and this is a tremendous help to be able to write it out... It is a bit cathartic to be talking to a father going through what my father went through, and to be able to express it. Hopefully it helps you as much as it helps me. You are helping me understand things on a much deeper level, just by having started this thread and asking those questions.

Thank you for responding.  It is helping me and I hope I can use it to help them.  I also find it cathartic and almost like talking to adult versions of them.  I want to help them and I really wish they didn't have to experience the BPD behavior.  The behavior isn't going away, so we will all have to go through it together.  It isn't fair to them and this will be their childhood and lives.  As they become adults, I hope that I have taught them boundaries, empathy, compassion, and to care for themselves.  It is up to me to walk the walk and show them the way. 

[ZeroSumGames]

I wish my father would have emotionally divorced my mother rather than just legally.

He remained emotionally stuck even after the divorce?  Or are you saying, you wish he would have emotionally divorced and stayed married and been around all the time?

I wish he would have got into therapy and enmeshment and codependency recovery.

I wish that he would have got a life and had his emotional needs met either through his second wife or friends rather than enmeshing with us kids.

I worry about this because caretaking is part of the family dynamic.  I don't want them to feel like they need to take care of my emotional needs and I need to make sure I let them know that I will take care of myself and that it isn't their responsibility. 

[ZeroSumGames]

My mother had BPD. I wish my father had gone to therapy for himself and learned how to be a better parent. My aunt did help me, when she talked with my father about how he put my golden sister on a pedestal and how I needed some attention. After that, dad really went out of his way to spend special one on one time with me

Any suggestions on how he could have been a better parent to you?

The one incident that stands out in my mind, is one day when I had been fighting with mom, dad came to my room and told me he had tried to get mom to get help for her problems, and she refused. He said there is nothing I can do. I wish he would have gotten therapy for me. 

I wish you didn't have to experience those fights.  They are awful and confusing, and watching your own children be gaslit is unreal.  It makes me so angry. 

I have seen therapy be experienced as threatening by uBPDm.  She certainly didn't like me going because of the changes in how we interacted the boundaries I began putting up.  In our state, both parents have to agree to send their child to therapy.  So if they were married and it sounds like they remained married during your childhood and possibly to this day, she may not have allowed it.  Perhaps that wasn't the case because your father didn't go to therapy himself either.  There is some stigma and shame attached to therapy in the world.  I make sure they know that I go to therapy and that it is a healthy thing I do to care for myself. 

[ZeroSumGames]

Dad  put BPD mother's needs first, to the point where he didn't consider himself. Their relationship looked very difficult from the outside. Just like we sometimes wished for a loving stable mother when we were kids, I also felt sad for him that he didn't have a loving, stable, wife.

To be the best possible Dad- you need to be your best self and that includes taking care of you.

This was our family dynamic and it was difficult.  I was in hopeful denial that it would eventually get better.  Unfortunately that didn't happen no matter how hard I tried and taking care of me means divorce.  It is awful both ways and it feels like choosing between two bad experiences for the kids. 

[Notwendy]

It is awful both ways and it feels like choosing between two bad experiences for the kids.

Yes, there are difficulties with either decision. I wouldn't suggest someone only meet their needs and not the kids' too, otherwise it would be far worse for the kids but if you can get as much time as possible with the kids, that would be good for them.

What we grew up with is in the past. What is more recent for me is my parents' elder years and one of the hardest things for me to see was BPD mother being verbally and emotionally abusive to my elderly father. After all he did for her- support and enable her for all these years, I felt he didn't deserve this but BPD mother is severely BPD and his efforts didn't change this for her. My naive attempts to intervene on his behalf fit right on to the Karpman triangle. He "rescued" BPD mother and got angry at me.

Dad seemed to have given up himself for the relationship. You know that codependency can cause someone to lose themselves in a relationship and once you do that, your kids lose you too.

A decision for you is a decision for your kids.

We don't tell posters to stay or leave, but I hope that whatever a person decides the non holds on to who they are . If divorce is the best way for you to do that, and you can still be supportive to your kids and look out for them, then know you did the best you could in a difficult situation. BPD is a spectrum disorder. Some perhaps can best work things out staying together, others can not and wish to divorce. Each situation is unique. There isn't only one best choice for all.

[Riv3rW0lf]

It is awful both ways and it feels like choosing between two bad experiences for the kids. 

I will be brutally honest here : I am glad my father left my mother. It is the reason I am healthy today. As "emotionally immature" as my father was, he wasn't abusive, he was safe and the 50/50 custody gave me a much needed respite. I never dreamed that they would get back together, I never hoped they would get along. I knew my my mother all too well for it.

As a teen, the second he offered to take me full time : I was in. I never even questioned it or hesitated. I knew, deep within, he was healthy and she wasn't. She made my life hell. He gave me space to be myself.

Somehow my brother decided to stay with our BPD mother full time, she succeeded in triangulating him against our father and truth be told : he is a mess today. He is just now starting to talk to my father again and low and behold, it seems to help him.

My mother is toxic. I wish I could say it differently, I wish I could say she was good to us, but mostly, she was toxic, because ANY good she did was always held against us later on and used to guiltripping us, until there wasn't any good left.

I made it because of my father's example and safe haven... As cold as it felt sometimes in his house, it was a safe cold, not a dangerous warmth like at my mother's house.

Between one abusive household, and two households (one abusive, and one healthy, even healthy-ish), I will take the two households every time.

And what feels like an insurmontable mountain right now, someday you will look back on,thinking : this is my journey, and I've made it to a peaceful place.

My father did, and I believe you will too. But she won't make it easy for you. My father still tells me sometimes (now that I know she is BPD and discussed it with him) that co-parenting with her was hell. He still has nightmares about it. There is no right or wrong way to go about it, as long as you find yourself and model what being a healthy individual is to your sons.

[ZeroSumGames]

We don't tell posters to stay or leave, but I hope that whatever a person decides the non holds on to who they are . If divorce is the best way for you to do that, and you can still be supportive to your kids and look out for them, then know you did the best you could in a difficult situation. BPD is a spectrum disorder. Some perhaps can best work things out staying together, others can not and wish to divorce. Each situation is unique. There isn't only one best choice for all.

I agree.  I made the comment less about my decision, which I am at peace with.  What I want to communicate is that it is a dilemma for your non parent, once they understand what is going on.  Your parents may have stayed together, separated, divorced or found a creative solution.  Your non parent was likely very focused on making the best decision for you, and somewhere down the line the best decision for themselves. 

[Couscous]

He remained emotionally stuck even after the divorce?  Or are you saying, you wish he would have emotionally divorced and stayed married and been around all the time?

He never severed the trauma bond — it took them 6 years to even get divorced after he moved out, and at one point there was even talk about them getting back together. He still makes excuses for her, and is still rescuing her, to this day. They are in frequent contact probably because interacting with her makes him feel OK about himself and boosts his self-esteem. 

I was very glad that he moved out. He was so much less stressed and it was really nice to no longer have to witness all the fighting. They seemed to be on good terms and there were no co-parenting issues that I ever was aware of, possibly because she was so wrapped up in a addictive love affair with a married man, which occupied all of her attention.

[Notwendy]

Your non parent was likely very focused on making the best decision for you, and somewhere down the line the best decision for themselves.

No, Dad's decisions were based on what is the best for my BPD mother. In many ways - the decision was also the best for us kids too, but the primary reason was her. As we got older, we sometimes asked him why he didn't divorce her. He didn't triangulate and discuss her in a bad way with us, but the issues were obvious and at some time we got old enough to ask him why he put up with it. She is emotionally and verbally abusive. During her rages, she'd trash the house. He still tried to minimize it and act as if it was normal, but it's hard to hide one of her rages and the resulting mess. Eventually, we'd ask, but we didn't know the extent of her mental illness. BPD wasn't a known entity at the time.

His reply- custody at that time almost always went to the mother. BPD mother could pull herself together in public. She'd be her charming self, and get custody of us- for the image. But she wasn't interested in being a mother and it would have been a bad outcome for us if this happened.

But we got older, left home, and Dad stayed. Since I didn't see the issues at home once I left, it appeared to me that perhaps things had gotten better between them. This is in part because, when I was a teen, she blamed her rages and the issues between them on me. Once I went to college, I assumed they were happy once I left home. What I didn't realize was how much Dad was enabling her and caretaking her to maintain some illusion of her being functional.

It was during my teen years that it became more evident that Dad's main focus was on my mother's needs. When we were little, Dad stayed around during her rages, more likely to keep us safe, but she's a small woman and by our teens, we were taller and faster than she was and physical harm was not a concern. Physical abuse wasn't usual for her, but one thing I learned is that it isn't safe to leave a young child with her. I knew then, that if I had kids one day, she'd not ever be alone with them. Once we were older though, Dad did leave during her rages, and we saw all of it. I don't post the details, but it was not something for kids to see.

We were enlisted as caretakers for her. By my teens, I was useful around the house. But also, Dad could leave because we were there. When we were small, if he needed to go somewhere, we had sitters. That seemed odd to me since my peers were cared for by their mothers in that era. I know now that the sitters were both there for us-- and for her  due to her dysregulations.

It wasn't until their elder years that I got the full picture of what was going on. Dad began to have some health issues and so I spent more time with them with the intent of helping out. With Dad in the hospital, I was home alone with BPD mother for an extended period of time and saw just how severe her mental health problems were.

I understand what a dilemma my father had with his choices. In the early years of his marriage, I don't think he knew all he was dealing with. Since BPD mother could pull it together at times, I think he truly believed that there was a way to treat her. She has had  psychiatric care, but she's resistant to it because she herself, doesn't accept that she needs it and so won't work with them but he didn't know that then. I know he loved her and was committed to finding help for her.

I think at some point though, he must have realized that she can not function on her own, at all and was genuinely worried for her. I think once we kids grew up, it became easier for him to just focus on her, and so he did. I think co-dependency was habitual for him but he was also a responsible person, and would not have left her to fend for herself. I think though, if he had divorced her, she probably would have remarried. Surely there was more going on between them that we are not aware of.

My relationship with him was contingent on being useful to BPD mother. I complied with that- because of my relationship with him. I had also become a co-dependent people pleaser. I wanted his approval so much, and complied out of fear of losing that.

But when my kids got old enough to be useful to her and she began to enlist them as caretakers I knew I had to have boundaries on that. I hoped Dad would understand but because this caused conflict with her, he didn't. To him, BPD mother's needs were paramount. It was only her, and always her needs that came first for him.

I have empathy for him. I think he was dealing with a very difficult situation at a time where there was no information on BPD and a lack of mental health resources to help with it. I think he did the best he could with it. I would not have blamed him if he chose to divorce her though at some point- if that was the decision he wanted to make- but I think he didn't want to do that.

[zachira]

It is very difficult for the non-BPD parent to know completely how unsafe it is for the children to be left alone with the BPD parent. My mother had terrible things to say about my father (mostly all undeserved) and would talk behind his back how she had been thinking of divorcing him (I am sure he never knew she was thinking of divorcing him.). I would say do everything you can to have your children's mother spend as little time as possible alone with your children. My father was very generous in paying for outside help to do nearly all the work around the house and many hours of babysitting with local teenage girls (all of which meant there was often another adult in the home when dad was at work). I now realize my mother was a lot like Notwendy's mother in that she really wasn't capable of taking care of her children, the house, or having a job. My siblings and I went to summer camp every year. Mom also drove her children to all kinds of after school activities, and mom complained how burdersome it was to have to drive us there and pick us up. Dad often said he could not understand why mom complained so much about being so tired when she did not do much. (He said this more in a tone of bewilderment and not to put her down. I think her terrible depression, anxiety, and insomnia were part of why she was so grouchy and exhausted.) Many members on PSI have talked about how their mothers were relieved to have less childcare responsiblities (though would not say it as they would never voluntarily give up having any control over their children, because it would mean feeling abandonned), as taking care of children really ovewhelmed them along with nearly everything else involved in being a mature responsible caring adult.

[Notwendy]

My mother had terrible things to say about my father (mostly all undeserved) and would talk behind his back how she had been thinking of divorcing him (I am sure he never knew she was thinking of divorcing him.).

My father was very generous in paying for outside help to do nearly all the work around the house and many hours of babysitting with local teenage girls (all of which meant there was often another adult in the home when dad was at work). I now realize my mother was a lot like Notwendy's mother in that she really wasn't capable of taking care of her children, the house, or having a job.

Many members on PSI have talked about how their mothers were relieved to have less childcare responsiblities (though would not say it as they would never voluntarily give up having any control over their children), as taking care of children really overwhelmed them along with nearly everything else involved in being a mature responsible caring adult.

This is the same situation with us. BPD mother would take me aside to complain about my father, talked about divorce. The complaints were TMI too, completely inappropriate ones.

This was another reason I made sure my kids were not ever alone with her, even as teens as she'd try to take them aside to confide in them- against me- and who knows what else but there was no way I'd let her do this with them.

As kids, we used to resent the sitters. Most mothers didn't work outside the home and my friends' mothers didn't have sitters. We wanted a "mommy" to take care of us too, but now I am grateful someone took care of us.

For the non parent out there who assumes the BPD spouse will take care of the kids when they are not home- be sure that spouse is even capable of that. It makes sense to expect what other parent can do, but it may be different when that parent has BPD.