Advice for reestablishing contact?

[Clouds46]

Considering reestablishing (some) contact with BPD mom.  It's been a few years of NC.  I have a child she doesn't know.  She has never stopped violating express boundaries or playing the victim, and has never taken any real accountability for her actions that led to the estrangement in the first place.  I think I've finally accepted that she'll never apologize or own anything she's put me through, and will probably never change.  That being said, a part of me wants to be the bigger person and not be NC for the rest of our lives.

I'm really not sure how to go about this and I have a lot of concerns.  I think ideally a distant, arms-length relationship in which we have contact only a few times a year would be best, but I expect her not to accept this.  I'd like to think I have more fortitude to deal with her constant backlash to my boundary setting now, but I'm not sure how it will go.  I do think I've grown over the last few years, but I have PTSD from her abuse and her behavior is very triggering for me.  I'm afraid of being totally overrun by her again.  I'm of course also concerned about the implications for my child.  I will never leave them alone together or anything, but I'm wondering if it will be harder to set boundaries/potentially go NC again if my child is involved.  I'm not sure how to even broach things with her again-- every time I try to write something I get overwhelmed, trying to summarize the issues of the past (there are so many, and so much trauma) and some basic standards I'd need in the present.  I hope reestablishing contact would not be a huge mistake.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!

[pursuingJoy]

Clouds46, I went back through your previous messages to fill myself in on a little of your story. How's your little one doing?

It sounds like you are still communicating with your mom, is that right? Does she live near you?

As far as how to broach the subject, it's best to keep it simple. Explanations muddy the water and reasoning for boundaries will probably cause conflict. "Mom, I'd like for my child to meet you. Would you like to meet for brunch on Tuesday at ____." Doesn't have to be more complicated than that. I'm not sure I would go into why or how often or what you want it to look like, because that doesn't depend on her. You control that. If she pushes, "I'd really like for our visits to be positive, so let's take it slow. How about next month at ____?"

If it doesn't work out or things go south immediately, again, you control what happens next.

We'll support whatever decision you feel you need to make. I think you're brave.

[livednlearned]

a part of me wants to be the bigger person and not be NC for the rest of our lives.

Does it feel safer if you look at this as, "I'm working towards having a safe relationship with my mother?"

I'm just wondering if the instinct to reconnect with your mother is coming from a place of doing what is genuinely best for you, or if it's driven by obligation or guilt coming from people who don't know?

You have your young child, a husband who loves and supports you, friends here who understand, and as you wrote, you've grown a lot and can accept that your mother won't change who she is, or give you what she wants.

I guess the next question is whether you feel safe reconnecting with her? Since you know she doesn't acknowledge your boundaries, what does safety look like in that context?

When I initiated contact with my father, I made sure it was on my terms -- we met in a busy environment, it was a short visit, we were in a public setting. I tested the water and then checked to see how I was doing.

Like pursuingJoy mentioned, I kept the conversation light. It helped set that first visit up for success. And while my feelings got hurt (my father largely ignored me), it was conflict-free and I was able to work through hurt and anger relatively quickly with my husband's help.

I also worked in advance with a therapist who did some role-playing with me so I could sort of go into the situation with my eyes wide open. I tended to feel so flooded when it came to my family, and had a habit of walking into lion's dens with no protection.

For example, I knew that if my father humiliated me or berated me in front of my husband, I would end the visit. I even calculated how much our dinners cost with tip so I could leave cash on the table 

[Couscous]

Partly due to feelings of guilt, and partly due to having had a healing fantasy about my mother being a better grandmother than mother, I tried the whole grandmother thing with my mother, and so far it hasn’t worked out too well. The situation with my mother was confusing because she’s not overtly abusive, but she has a history of having meltdowns even in public places — in front of my children, even when they were babies and toddlers.

Because of that my husband and I have recently reached the conclusion that since we are as parents, in our view, obliged to protect our children from stuff like this, we have suspended visits for the indefinite future. I also became aware of how triggered I would get, and how many days it would take for me to recover even after a ‘nice’ chat on the phone, so I decided I needed to take a complete hiatus from the relationship. She still sends me emails me regularly and I feel OK about sending her a bone and I reply politely and briefly.

For what it’s worth my, T told me that his mother’s mother probably qualified for several psychiatric diagnoses, and he has never met her. He had no misgivings about it whatsoever, and he believes strongly that parents are under no obligation whatsoever to allow their children to have contact with disordered grandparents.

I may or may not resume low contact some day, when I am truly capable of being the bigger person, but I am in no particular hurry and it’s basically at the very bottom of my list of priorities. Because her interest in my children is solely due to her viewing them as future allies and Rescuers, I just don’t see the need for my kids to have contact with her. Maybe we’ll call her briefly on her birthday and Christmas, but for now at least, that will be about it.

[Clouds46]

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses.

@pursuingJoy, the little one is doing so well, thank goodness.  Happy and confident and I hope that never changes.  I give mind every day to being a different kind of mom. 

My mother does live near me, though we have not been in communication this year.  We had only very limited communication last year when I tried to reassert certain boundaries as conditions for reconnecting (which she ignored).  And thank you, I think your advice to start small is wise.  It feels a little counterintuitive for me to reestablish a relationship without addressing past issues the way you would in a normal relationship, but of course I know trying to do that with my mother results in no acknowledgements and just attacks on me.

@livenlearned, I think I'm not sure, but in honesty it's probably a combination.  I think I wonder if there is a world in which my family and I could benefit from "the good" aspects of her in small doses while maintaining enough control to shut things down when the toxicity inevitably resurfaces.  There's definitely also though some FOG I always feel, and an element of exhaustion from the triangulation with my enmeshed sibling and dealing with the judgment of others who don't know the truth.  My mother tells others that she's angry with me because I'm hurting her with the estrangement (so she can still be the victim and villainize me, without acknowledging why the estrangement happened in the first place and persists).  Of course that is not my goal (I'm really just trying to stop hurting myself), but I still wonder if there is another way to minimize the damage to us both (maybe not).

It's hard to say what safety would look like when she still doesn't acknowledge boundaries (one reason why my husband questions the point of reconnecting), but probably a version of what you describe-- maintaining the power to shut things down when she oversteps.  I think part of my fear is that I don't feel I've been able to do that successfully in the past, and I feel like I'd be taking a bit of a leap of faith to see if I could handle things better now (as I'm a few years older, have gone through a lot of therapy, have had space from her for a few years, and I'm a mother myself now).  My husband definitely supports me emotionally, he claims he would also stand up to her in the future but it's hard to see that happening as he has always tended to try to be the nice guy and not rock the boat with people (my mother has definitely bullied me in front of him in the past).  I think your approach/perspective on meeting with your dad was great and I commend your bravery!  What is your relationship with him like now?

@Couscous, thanks so much for sharing your experience.  I'm really sorry you're dealing with this but you are making the right decision to put your mental health and children first.  It was brave of you to try.  Unfortunately the events you describe are pretty much what I fear and expect about reconnecting with my mother (who also has a history of public meltdowns).  I definitely relate to being knocked off my game for a few days after being triggered by my mother's patterns.  I like to think that if I do decide to try reconnecting, I could make the same decision you've made if things don't go well.  I am wondering how your kids have handled reducing contact with her after trying the grandmother thing?  That is one big concern of mine.  My mother loves babies but I know it's just a matter of time before she'd try "recruiting" my children against me and the rest of the family (the way she did with me against my father and other family when I was a child), and I'm worried about my ability to pull back once that cat is out of the bag.   

Thanks so much all. 

[Couscous]

I am wondering how your kids have handled reducing contact with her after trying the grandmother thing?  That is one big concern of mine.  My mother loves babies but I know it's just a matter of time before she'd try "recruiting" my children against me and the rest of the family (the way she did with me against my father and other family when I was a child), and I'm worried about my ability to pull back once that cat is out of the bag.   

Pulling back has been a major challenge for me, but what has made it easier was finally being able to no longer deny that my mother doesn't actually love my kids, (something she demonstrated numerous times) which eradicated any remaining guilt I had. My 7 yo son is very aware that there is tension in my relationship with my mother, and so far he hasn't asked any questions...but I may need to have an official chat with him about it. I didn't know about BPD until about two years ago, but if I could have a do-over, I would have attempted at keeping her at arm's length from the get-go, such as occasional brief visits in public places, and maybe quick calls on birthdays and Christmas. Because I have pulled back after having had more extensive contact she's using the opportunity to play the victim, and as such I have had to distance myself from everyone in my family who are siding with her. But I think this would have happened no matter what, as I do not think she would have tolerated an arm's length relationship. Sadly it's usually all or nothing when it comes to enmeshed families... 

[lm1109]

But I think this would have happened no matter what, as I do not think she would have tolerated an arm's length relationship. Sadly it's usually all or nothing when it comes to enmeshed families... 

This really hit home for me. It's so true...I tried keeping an arms length relationship for YEARS and it was just impossible...like beating my head against the wall...all or nothing is the perfect way to explain it!

Hi Clouds46,

I know what you're going through...I've questioned wether NC forever is the right thing or not as well. For me... I do believe it is. Of course...everyone's situation is different...but as I just wrote...my Mom rejected ALL boundaries with me. I didn't really allow her alone with my children...but she still found ways to cross boundaries with them as well. If given the opportunity she would have triangulated them against me... I know this based on things she did right in front of me...like undermining me in front of my kids. She also talked badly about me and everyone else and began trying to compare my kids and point out little personality things that she could judge. For example, one day my son(age 7) told my Mom a story about a dog he saw surfing on a surfboard at the Beach that we were vacationing at and then laughed at the end of the story and told her he was just kidding. Later, my Mom brought it up and told me that "I better watch that one" because he is a "good liar" like his Grandfather. No matter how hard I tried she twisted everything and even an arms length relationship was unhealthy for me and my family. If I could go back I wouldn't have continued trying...I wish that I had accepted sooner that she was just as incapable of being a loving grandparent as she was incapable of being a loving Mother.

Again..this is just my situation and yours may be different...but I would highly recommend doing an honest pros and cons list or weighing your options with a therapist before opening yourself or children back up. It's a tough situation to be in and I feel for you!

Sending you support

[Clouds46]

These comments were really helpful.  @lm1109, the experience you've described is unfortunately so foreseeable to me in my own life.  I'm really sorry for what you and your kids went through but I'm glad to hear you are in a place of acceptance with the situation.

My update is just that, after deliberating and somewhat agonizing over the decision, I decided not to reach out to her for the time being.  There were a lot of reasons.  I asked myself a lot of questions, including whether having her in our lives in any capacity would be a net positive for my child and myself, and I couldn't say yes.  I tried envisioning different scenarios of what our relationship would look like if I reached out again and tried setting certain boundaries, and each one was still toxic.  Asking her to respect boundaries at this point almost feels like a joke, because I know it is a totally futile exercise.  I still feel really upset and triggered by things she is doing in the present, and I realized it would not be healthy to bring that further into my life.  I still hope to reach a point one day where I will not be as affected by her actions and may be able to manage the relationship more objectively, but I am just not there.

NC is really hard, but unfortunately it has been better than the alternative in my case (I have felt like the healthiest version of myself these past few years) and I'm sure in many of yours.  For me there is a lot of lingering sadness and guilt but also so much relief.  There will likely be other times I will consider reaching out again, but will just end up right back here with the same realizations.  Just sending my support to everyone who relates.

[Riv3rW0lf]

NC is really hard, but unfortunately it has been better than the alternative in my case (I have felt like the healthiest version of myself these past few years) and I'm sure in many of yours.  For me there is a lot of lingering sadness and guilt but also so much relief.  There will likely be other times I will consider reaching out again, but will just end up right back here with the same realizations.  Just sending my support to everyone who relates.

Thank you for coming here to share your challenges and journey, it certainly helps me feel less lonely in this decision. I relate, very much.

 

[2of3]

Sounds like you made a decision you feel safe with.   Just to let you know that when I was a young mom I decided to give my parents an opportunity to be grandparents. Some good came of it, but eventually we had to break it off. Most days I wish I had cut them off the day I gave birth.

[zachira]

I hope if you reestablish contact with your mother it will be because this is something you need that you do not do it for her. What would be some safe ways to visit with your mother? Would it work to only see her when she is around people that she has to be on her best behaviors with or is that not a possibility at all?

[Imatter33]

Thank you clouds. I haven’t been by the board in some time. All of your thoughts felt like reading my own and I applaud you for writing it all down and sharing with us.
NC Is sometimes so hard, and other times really really great.

I understand you.

Hugs.