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Author Topic: NC : Dreaming of a dark storm followed by a triggering phone call  (Read 1118 times)
Riv3rW0lf
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« on: August 11, 2022, 05:39:27 PM »

All of you : I missed you those past few days. I am glad to see the board up and running again.

Just in time, to be honest.

Background.
My brother's girlfriend left him. It was bound to happen. She was in a previously abusive relationship, my brother is also a bit of a mess, the ex (who is also the father of both her girls) wasn't able to let go and an old friend of my brother. My brother is easily triggered and a diagnosed bipolar, possibly BPD, I am still on the fence about this one... All this to say : we saw it coming my father, my husband and I. My father was supportive of him. I stayed clear of it.

Now, the breakup, essentially, was taken very hard. Enough for my father to called me to discuss how scared he was that my brother might end it. He wasn't coming out of his house anymore and my father was worried. So I told him I heard his worries, and I understood them, that I could listen to him, but that in all truth, I found it incredibly triggering and I needed to stay out of it.

The reason is simple: my brother or mother in a hole was always what would bring me back into the fold, trying to help them, only to end up a persecutor because I would end up trying to separate them for the good of my brother. My mother and him are very enmeshed. She doesn't help him, she saves him and I could always see she did more wrongs than good for him. So I often stood between them, arguing that she should stop enabling him and instead leave him live his life so that he can grow, become an adult and become truly independent. To trust him. Now I understand better the dynamic so I steered clear of it this time, and only sent a specific song to my brother, that I knew he would get the meaning of : that I loved him and was there for him. He never wrote back and I left it that way.

My dream
Yesterday I had this crazy dream about a very dark storm over the city my brother lives in. I was on my way there via train, when my phone rang. On the other side: my stepfather was telling me I was an egoist, that everything was my fault, that my mother was in pain, while my mother was screaming in the background that she hated me. I woke up a bit phased.

I came here to share it, and the site acted up again... so I ended up texting my father about it.

The revelation
So my father called me and gave me a update on my brother. He is not living for a few days with my mother and my stepfather... And my brother told my father that my mother had breast cancer, but that he wouldn't tell me. My father said he felt he had to tell me...

My first reaction
Is this even true?

The timing is just... Plus, she did that before: told me she had breast cancer while I was in the middle of my exam session while in university. It ended up being nothing at all... Just a scream for attention.

My father told me my brother doesn't answer him anymore. My mother finally triangulated him against my father again and likely against me. It feels like without me to balance him (because I steered clear of my brother), he just falls right back behind her. And I think the fact that I am no contact with my mother... my brother just has to save her. I knew this would happen. His girlfriend provided a buffer of happiness, protecting my father and I from my BPD mother. Now that he feels abandoned, he is back into her dress and it is over... I doubt he will come out of it, to be honest. I think the wedging has reached his peak: because I chose not to fight anymore, that it wasn't worth it...

The fact my brother didn't want to tell me about our BPD mother's possible breast cancer struck me like some kind of punishment. My husband told me : " your brother is mentally ill. He might not want to hurt you, it might just be that he is hurt himself and doesn't want to put himself between your mother and you. He just follows blindly." And I thought... but she knows. She told me countless time that "your brother tells everything we tell him to everyone"... so she told him, probably told him not to tell me, knowing quite well he would pass the message along to our father, who would likely tell me : she knew it would eventually reach me...

I feel like I cannot trust she truly has a breast cancer until my older brother confirms it. But I don't want to check in with him... I think I would wait for him to contact me, and I cannot imagine that he wouldn't... It would be highly contradictory to his character.

I feel that in a healthy family : he would have to tell me. And I somehow have to believe that all the work he does as a life coach made him healthier. That he knows the right thing to do is to tell me: to give me a choice. I can remain no contact, but I should know, right? The consequences of my decision?

What now?
It brought a feeling of fatality to my decision of being no contact. I do not wish to talk to her again. In truth : I believe she made it up. The thing is: if she didn't... if this time, it is true... Will I be able to live with myself for believing she lied? It's not like she gave me much choice, lying to me constantly, manipulating reality to suit her own needs.. I simply don't trust her.

Support would be welcome... I contacted my therapist to resume meeting with him. I realize this opened up another box about ... you know ... death, illness and whatnot.

I am not even sure how I feel about all this. I have literally NO IDEA. I felt a bit depressed earlier, but ended up spending time with my children, with my mother, cooked diner, gave them their bath... I didn't snap, I wasn't impatient... I felt okay. The depression didn't last very long. I still don't want to contact her... it's like it changes nothing somehow... Who am I?

How should I feel?

The fact I don't believe her says a lot more about me and our relationship than about her. I am aware of that. Are we strangers? Am I truly done with her?

I feel sad now... and confused.

I was always on my father's side... My brother was always on my mother's side. My brother and I always loved each other... But I finally exited the relationship because of my mother abuse. My brother chose to remain with my mother, like he did when we were young. I cannot help him anymore. This is his decision in the end... Our family was and will always be divided. We don't have a family. We have two sides of a war that has been ongoing since our parent's separation... My father tried his best to stay neutral despite her constant attacks, and he lost his son to this war. I feel incredibly sad for my father, his life was influenced by her, despite their separation, she was the reason of his sorrow and still is to this day... It is incredible the havoc she created in his life out of shear resentment... And now I see : it will be the same for me.

She will never forgive me. She would take me back only to make me pay later on... My own mother. This is crazy making.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 05:47:49 PM by Riv3rW0lf » Logged
Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2022, 06:02:49 PM »

Found an important typo : my brother is NOW living with her and my stepfather.

And I spent time with my daughter, not my mother... Strange lapsus.
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Couscous
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2022, 06:29:08 PM »

Hi Riverwolf  With affection (click to insert in post)

All of this sounds suspiciously like same major countermoves on the part of your mother and brother in order to pull you back into the drama, and it’s so predictable.

Even if the diagnosis is true, your mother is not going to be on her deathbed just yet. There’s still lots of time.

Sending the song to your brother was the perfect thing to do.

I really think that everything is actually OK right now, and whatever the future may hold, I have no doubt that you will have the strength to get through it. Right now little Riverwolf is safe.

Sending you lots of hugs.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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lm1109
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2022, 08:50:29 AM »

Hi Riv3rwolf! I am so sorry you're experiencing such a crazy making situation... I understand the feeling well. About a month after I went NC with my parents I received a text from my Mom that said: "Your Dad and Nephew have COVID!" I contacted my nephew and he was sick(flu like symptoms) but had never even tested for Covid and was feeling better. I chose not to contact her or my Dad. My parents have falsely said they had it on multiple occasions and had negative tests. Once my Mom called me up at night crying and screaming to me that her will was in her safe and that she wasn't sure she would live through the night...and her test came back negative.

 It was a hard decision to not contact my Dad but I do not want updated on their lives at this point in my life and I know that it was meant to guilt me. Not reaching out is not who I am...with every friend/family we knew that caught it..I offered to drop off groceries, etc. But unfortunately I can't be there for my parents...I know this from 34 years of experience of TRYING to "be there" for my parents. It's sad but true.

The timing is just... Plus, she did that before: told me she had breast cancer while I was in the middle of my exam session while in university. It ended up being nothing at all... Just a scream for attention.


I agree that the timing is suspicious... especially since she has done this before! I think you're right to wait and see if your brother contacts you..and as Couscous said...either way there is still time.

I understand the conflicted feelings and feelings of guilt...however...she created the dynamic and wedge with her illness. You have done nothing wrong by protecting yourself and it's not wrong to continue to choose to protect yourself regardless of what is going on in her life. If you find out that it's true... then you still have a choice as to what role you are willing and/or able to play in that  journey.

Sending you SO much support Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2022, 12:45:40 PM »

Hi Riverwolf  With affection (click to insert in post)

All of this sounds suspiciously like same major countermoves on the part of your mother and brother in order to pull you back into the drama, and it’s so predictable.

Even if the diagnosis is true, your mother is not going to be on her deathbed just yet. There’s still lots of time.

Sending the song to your brother was the perfect thing to do.

I really think that everything is actually OK right now, and whatever the future may hold, I have no doubt that you will have the strength to get through it. Right now little Riverwolf is safe.

Sending you lots of hugs.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Couscous, thank you. I am grateful for the validation. I felt responsible for my brother for so long, it feels good not to be meddling anymore with all of the drama, but I do feel a bit of guilt, seeing how he went right back to live with her... All those years I spent trying to help him, not save him, but help him reach independance, stirring him toward emotional responsibility, healing... And at 38 years old : he is living with her again. and somehow I feel like I failed him, even though he was never my responsibility.

Another part of me feels good that I successfully am keeping out, that I didn't take the bait.

But then, I do discover myself right now and how cold I can be toward her... And it makes me doubt myself somehow... I don't think I am a cold person. I like to think of myself as someone caring. But when my father told me that... The depression was about the abuse, was about how my brother didn't want to tell me, how he lived with her.. it wasn't about her and her breast cancer.

I will be brutally honest: part of me can't wait for her to die. what kind of person does that make me? ... I feel like a terrible person, but I heard, at least, that it is not uncommon for adult daughters of borderline mothers.. which is why I dare write it down here. I am aware of how terrible this sounds...
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2022, 12:51:11 PM »


I understand the conflicted feelings and feelings of guilt...however...she created the dynamic and wedge with her illness. You have done nothing wrong by protecting yourself and it's not wrong to continue to choose to protect yourself regardless of what is going on in her life. If you find out that it's true... then you still have a choice as to what role you are willing and/or able to play in that  journey.


Thank you Im1109,

I just realized the guilt is more confusion than anything else, as I am slowly uncovering just how little I actually care about my BPD mother. Right now anyway. I feel cold... But I wonder now if this isn't just numbness hiding rage and depression again. I am not sure if I disconnected from the emotional turmoil, or if I truly care so little.

I guess I am "emotionally illerate"? Is there word in English what I could use for that?
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khibomsis
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2022, 01:26:27 PM »

Right on cue, River3Wolf and lm1109:
https://pagesix.com/2022/08/10/jennette-mccurdy-defends-titling-memoir-im-glad-my-mom-died/

I feel your suffering. The FOG lies deep. When my uNBPD mom lay in her final illness, I tried to make my peace with the fact that she was going to be as ornery in her passing as she was in life. She was going to leave me dissatisfied with myself. It tore me apart. Even in the manner of her going, she was trying to control me. It was a lot. I tried to sort it out in therapy but the fact is I am still glad mom died. At least she is not suffering anymore.

If you think about repetition compulsion: the stories they tell through their actions, then abuse is a pretty horrific story.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2022, 10:42:03 PM »

Excerpt
I just realized the guilt is more confusion than anything else, as I am slowly uncovering just how little I actually care about my BPD mother

Riv3rWOlf you  awe me with your depth and self awareness. Our dreams have a way of bringing us a greater sense of awareness. You aren’t emotionally illiterate at all. You are experiencing complex, conflicting and confusing emotions. What’s do you think your dream is telling you?

Excerpt
Is this even true?
My sister wBPD distorts , exaggerates, and says things that are flat at not true. Like you, I can’t trust anything she says as most things fall in that continuum. I no longer think of it as lies, but her projections. Projections of her fears and anxieties. I used to think of her as highly manipulative, but not so much anymore. People w/BPD are so caught up in their own emotions, their own pain, that they can’t really see the difference between reality and their distortions. I doubt your mother has breast cancer, but she might. You have no reason to believe her. But if she does, you also have no reason to feel guilty about not believing her, because she hasn’t been trust worthy with you. She created the dynamic not you. 

Excerpt
Another part of me feels good that I successfully am keeping out, that I didn't take the bait.

Yes, you should feel fantastic about that. It’s must be really hard to witness and watch this continued divide within your family, but your brother has to make his own choices and live with them. You are making the right choices for you. I applaud you for staying out of the triangle despite how deeply ingrained the patterns are in your family.  Keep choosing you and what is right for you.  I love Kristen Neffs work on self compassion and go back to it in moments like this. Good stuff if you have time google her or watch one of her u tube videos. I have read her book on self compassion several times and have found it to be healing and cathartic.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2022, 06:13:51 AM »

You aren’t emotionally illiterate at all. You are experiencing complex, conflicting and confusing emotions.

Thank you Mommydoc. This helped more than you know. I was starting to think all the work I put in to reconnect to myself didn't work, considering I feel numb... But it isn't exactly numbness... Maybe this is what being emotionally disconnected from her feels like. All the emotions seem a bit muted. There is a bit of pain, but no anger... and no real need to jump in to save her. I am mostly amazed at how things are unfolding. And I am not scared anymore... Like I now know she will never be able to hurt me as much as she did in the past.  

What’s do you think your dream is telling you?

I read about the storm and it seems to fit my situation well... I think I just knew, when my father told me that my brother and his girlfriend had separated, that our relationship would become increasingly turbulent because of my mother's manipulation. It wasn't just a storm, it was a feeling of impending doom. So I think I just know this is the end of my relationship with my brother.

I think this:


My sister wBPD distorts , exaggerates, and says things that are flat at not true. Like you, I can’t trust anything she says as most things fall in that continuum. I no longer think of it as lies, but her projections. Projections of her fears and anxieties. I used to think of her as highly manipulative, but not so much anymore. People w/BPD are so caught up in their own emotions, their own pain, that they can’t really see the difference between reality and their distortions.


And this:


If you think about repetition compulsion: the stories they tell through their actions, then abuse is a pretty horrific story.


Go incredibly well together. Thank you both for reminding me... I didn't feel true anger toward her, but no compassion either. This unlocks the door to compassion. You are both right.

Truly, if it isn't true (which deep down I think it isn't), it tells the story of her abuse, through her fears, her anxiety. I have a choice; I can either see it as a bait, or for what it possibly actually is: her need to feel abandoned in sickness. She is using our estrangement to relive her abandonment from her parents.

Abuse is a horrific story, you are right, Khimbosis.

And if she does have breast cancer... Well... I won't be there I guess. I will continue grieving her, and the mother I never had. For I truly believe now that this woman was not a mother to me... And I feel more responsibility toward my children, protecting them and my family, than I do being there for someone who can't reciprocate love.

I get that she is in pain... but I will trust her into the loving arms of the universe. I simply do not have the strength to be there for her.
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khibomsis
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2022, 11:29:01 AM »

Riv3rWolf, that's exactly it. You are right. And you deserve better than to relive forever the shadows of your grandparents. Your mom will relive that story as often as she needs to. You don't have to. Were she in her right mind, she would want you to take care of the best part of her: yourself and the grandchildren.
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2022, 12:33:44 PM »

Were she in her right mind, she would want you to take care of the best part of her: yourself and the grandchildren.

Thank you so very much for those words. I needed to read exactly that.
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lm1109
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2022, 02:05:32 PM »

I guess I am "emotionally illerate"? Is there word in English what I could use for that?

Riv3rWOlf you  awe me with your depth and self awareness. Our dreams have a way of bringing us a greater sense of awareness. You aren’t emotionally illiterate at all. You are experiencing complex, conflicting and confusing emotions.

I totally agree with Mommydoc here! For me..I believe the thing that trips me up is an inherent belief that I am wrong for feeling grief, sadness, and disappointment and I sometimes blame myself for it and also belittle my healing progress over it. In reality we are having human reactions to living in extreme mental illness and abusive environments. I'm reaching(still a work in progress) for acceptance of my situation and radical acceptance of myself. In my recovery group someone commented that we would never yell or berate a baby while learning to walk...yet as we learn...for the first time...how to walk in a healthy direction we berate ourselves for not knowing how. Most of us were never taught how because our disordered parents were incapable of teaching us how because they don't know how. We are walking uncharted territory and we need to be proud of how much we actually know, proud of our ability to love, and proud of our ability to keep walking even though it's painful. The grief and pain of it all(especially after going NC) is SO complex and it comes in waves. But... Im beginning to understand that the pain doesn't make us emotionally illiterate...in fact it makes us understand emotions on a much deeper level than those who have never walked through fire!

Khibomsis, It's so interesting that you linked this. I am almost completely through this memoir and I absolutely loved it! I didn't buy it for the title...Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I stumbled upon Jeanette McCurdy's podcast through a different one that I listen to and related to a lot of the elements in her journey..abuse from a mom, emotionally absent father, eating disorders, etc. I actually found this podcast episode with a psychologist named Lea Waters called Toxic Mothers. This interview blew me away...the psychologist doesn't label her mother BPD but I related to her story more than anyone else I've ever heard and got SO much out of it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJm-BidDzqM&t=4632s

There seems to be a little less pain when I just simply see my parents for what they are, without feeling shame, and accepting that unfortunately they are extremely mentally ill. They do not wish to change... and I have no control over their wishes. And this one I struggle with... but also accepting that I should not feel guilty for surviving and growing. Im not sure if everyone else will relate to this psychologists story as personally as I did...but it's definitely worth a listen...it's a great interview and she gives a lot of valuable advice throughout! 



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khibomsis
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2022, 04:03:43 PM »

Ah, lm1109, you are growth itself. I still ponder how it is possible to have such crazy parents and not feel shame, after all they are a part of me. You inspire me.
Will watch the podcast with pleasure.
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2022, 07:43:26 AM »

I still ponder how it is possible to have such crazy parents and not feel shame, after all they are a part of me.
Thanks Khibomsis  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
This is a good question to ponder. I think I carried THEIR shame for so long that I reached a rock bottom with it and I'm now willing to surrender it(of course it's a constant work in progress). The shame was never mine to carry in the first place. That's what abusers do...transfer their shame onto others and as children we had no choice but to take it...as adults we do have a choice.

I'm sure there is still shame in me after a lifetime of carrying sick peoples shame...but...the shame is no longer keeping me quiet like it once did...it no longer has complete power over me.

I understand what you mean that they are a part of you. For me... I try to reframe it and remember THAT IS a part of me and that's why I can never stop healing and taking my own personal inventory! I'm cut from that cloth and I see where not healing and growing can lead! I want more for myself and kids!
When I acknowledge the severity of illness I can acknowledge my progress while also reminding myself that this self work is a forever journey!

Brene Brown has amazing books and talks about shame and releasing it! With affection (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2022, 08:22:56 AM »

Wow, lm1109, what a brilliant reframing! It gives me so much comfort to think of things that way.
You are absolutely right, a batch of my nephews and nieces are approaching puberty, the youngest still dysregulates regularly (has done so since a baby) and most of my emotional energy goes into thinking about how to support them. CoVID hasn't helped and I am really wondering if it isn't time to start them in family therapy. For sure the least I can do is model some sort of sanity.
Riv3rWolf, I hope you don't think we hijacked your thread?
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2022, 12:40:17 PM »

Riv3rWolf, I hope you don't think we hijacked your thread?
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Of course not, this is what a thread is for. I am always interested to see new discussions spark and we all beneficiate from each other's insights and experience. All discussions seem closely related on this board.

I've also thought a lot about the parts of me that are my mother... And recently I realized that I did carry her shame. A lot. As a result, I started hating those parts that are hers... The way I move sometimes, the way I talk. I would hear her through what I say, and I would hate it. Recently it changed.

I think this is why going over the anger to reach compassion seemed necessary for me. Now that I feel a bit more compassion toward my mother, now that I understand and see her illness, I can heal those parts within me that are hers, and learn to love them too.

My mother was not all bad and I am trying to separate the illness from the love... She cooked diner every nights for us. She hated every minutes of it, she would rage while doing it. It was a heavy burden and to her : we were never doing enough...now, I focus on the "cooking every night for us" despite it being highly stressful for her. She still somehow managed to do it. And she is the reason I learned to cook this early. I had to to appease her and it served me right. I see her a lot through my cooking... And I like to believe that me, cooking with love for my children, is the perfect mix of my mother and father together, and that by doing so, I am healing my mother too.

So now, I can bake desserts she used to make and feel love toward her... She would do it with strings attached, she was expecting us to react a certain way, to be extremely grateful, it didn't feel out of love, yet there was love... I kept the loving dessert and took out the parts of the memory that are the illness... In a way, this is my way to honor her, and to share her legacy with my children...

Another exemple is she would have me cook with her, and berate me the whole time. I wasn't fast enough, I didn't do anything right, she would make sure the batter was all gone so I couldn't get a spoon or a lick to taste it like all children love to do... I took out the rage of it, and now I bake with my daughter and I let her do everything, and we work "as a team", and there is always time to lick the bowl. Sometimes we do it without any recipes and she just pours sugar and flour in, so that there isn't any "rules" and she is the one experimenting and it works because she saw me do it countless times! I try to keep it light and for fun...

All this to say: I kept the habit, and took out the illness. I am doing, with my daughter, what my mother was trying to do with me... It is a tragedy, in a sense, for her too, that she was never able to do it without rage. I'm sure she was going for a loving baking session but could never achieve it..

Now everytime I hear her through myself and get triggered with hate, I try to take a moment... What does this specific sentence carry? Sometimes I can pinpoint why I found it disturbing. And I try to heal it.

I cannot heal my mother, and she is abusive and dangerous to be around because she still projects all the shame outward and ask us to carry her emotional load, which trigger my trauma... And away from her, it feels like I can finally heal my memories of her and integrate them to my psyche without hate. 

I'm sorry, I don't think I know about your nephews and nieces Khimbosis, are they your sister's children? Did she inherit your mother's traits?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 12:54:23 PM by Riv3rW0lf » Logged
khibomsis
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2022, 03:30:16 PM »

Yo, Riv3rWolf, that was deep. The images of you and your daughter are so sweet  Way to go! (click to insert in post) Way to go! (click to insert in post) Way to go! (click to insert in post)
Am going to try the same reframing, and around cooking too. Went through a time in my thirties when the fact that I looked like my mother drove me crazy. Now in my late fifties I am beginning to resemble my grandmother more, which is a relief. Yet how sad to be so connected to PTSD that the mere sight of your face in a mirror will trigger your daughter.

Yes, this is my younger siblings children whom I co-parent. Sibling the sanest of all of us, which is probably not saying much  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) The youngest has been waking up at night and screaming at times, so much so that the other siblings do not want to share a room. Over the years as we began to realize that it is way beyond normal baby crying or toddler defiance it really made me understand about the genetic aspect of BPD. This is a child who had everything we could offer in terms of affection, boundaries, love hugs, routine and structure, especially once an older cousin was diagnosed BPD at 15. Limited but regular exposure to uNBPD grandma once a year, who spoilt them with presents and certainly was much calmer than she was when we were children. By the time this child was born we had been doing it for ten years and were pretty organized (as much as one could ever be with mom). The child does great at school, good at sports and very popular socially, usually a sweet affectionate child. They have had no trauma in their life bar three weeks in NICU and CoVID, which is admittedly a lot.  We felt that one symptom out of 9 was not enough to require therapy. But at 11 it is starting to affect the social life, we have to refuse sleepovers for instance.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 03:38:53 PM by khibomsis » Logged

 
Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2022, 05:14:20 PM »

Yet how sad to be so connected to PTSD that the mere sight of your face in a mirror will trigger your daughter.

Yep, I hear you there ! I don't look at all like my mother physically, and I see it as a blessing. Seeing how I can get triggered when I speak like her, I can completely imagine being triggered looking at myself in the mirror and seeing her face ! I am glad you are doing better... Making peace with our mothers truly is a lifelong journey.


The youngest has been waking up at night and screaming at times, so much so that the other siblings do not want to share a room. Over the years as we began to realize that it is way beyond normal baby crying or toddler defiance it really made me understand about the genetic aspect of BPD.

I hear you... My daughter is 4 so I am trying to keep my cool, but now that I had a second child who is completely different, I see that she is ... Different?

She is so scared of being alone, even though she has never been alone. She never slept right, so I coslep with her for four years almost, until she told me she wanted to try sleeping alone. She used to get those night terrors and wake up whining and crying deep cries at night. And she was very hard to calm down. And I mean... When it happens every night, parents also don't get in their best behaviors. We start wondering if we are not unwillingly encouraging them, and we just don't know how to react abynore. She doesn't wake up anymore, or at least not as often, but she still does sometimes.

She has very deep emotions, every time she wakes up, it is a meltdown and I have no idea why, nor how to calm her. Being there and holding her doesn't help so now I tell her I am there if she needs me and when she gets her emotions under control... But it stresses me out... I know she is four, but this is way beyond anything I've seen around me and with my son. She only started playing by herself recently...by comparison my son has always been fine playing with his toys in parallel, as long as I am in the room... Not her. She never liked that my attention was on something else so we got there very gradually.. 

I am hoping having a loving and stable home will keep her from developing BPD, but I can see she is "at risk". And I don't want to cover her too much either, as this also wouldn't help. It is a puzzle.

I think this might be what HSP in children is like... Do you think your nephew is HSP?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 05:22:15 PM by Riv3rW0lf » Logged
khibomsis
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2022, 09:11:42 PM »

No dear, I wish I could say I did but I believe this to be dysregulations symptomatic of BPD caused by inheriting whatever brain chemistry is involved in this disease. What worked for us was making sure there was regularity, like going to bed at the same time each day, making sure they get enough sleep, etc. Holding the child while they calm down.  A cup of chamomile tea or other herbal tranquilizer at night. Now that the child is older we are teaching meditation techniques and yoga, although that probably should have started much younger. I tell myself we are building resilience skills.

2-4 is a difficult age, period. If you are stressed out there is no harm in taking your daughter to a child therapist and getting a professional opinion. Putting in place support systems would take a lot of stress off you.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2022, 10:03:15 AM »

What worked for us was making sure there was regularity, like going to bed at the same time each day, making sure they get enough sleep, etc. Holding the child while they calm down.  A cup of chamomile tea or other herbal tranquilizer at night. Now that the child is older we are teaching meditation techniques and yoga, although that probably should have started much younger. I tell myself we are building resilience skills.

This sounds like a very mindful and healthy approach. He is lucky you are aware of the risks and taking preventive steps to help him develop healthy tools !

As for my daughter, I am monitoring how she is maturing... Many things have resorbed so I am hopeful that the staying with her for four years worked in decreasing her innate anxiety levels. She is now very out there... I also taught her to breath through her emotions, supported her through a lot of tantrums before I realized my presence was somehow making it worst. I think she is slowly getting all of it under control. My stepmother who is a therapist doesn't see any red flags, and my own therapist mentioned it might have had to do with her alertness and self awareness level, after looking at some drawings she made... like she was lacking the emotional maturity to process all she could process cognitively.  

I am hopeful she will get there, but I remain on my guard, especially considering the trauma running through my family blood.

In all honesty, I find it incredibly humbling to see her grow... She has been teaching me about my own emotions as much as I seem to be teaching her ! She is connected to her innate sense of fairness, she hasn't been tainted by trauma and life yet... She taught me about anger when she asked me questions about it recently... She asked my if I still loved her when I was angry. I was left a bit phased. She said : "I love you when I am happy, I love you when I am sad, but I don't love you when I am angry mommy." It was humbling to hear her say that. I feel like my job as her mother is to keep her connected to this self-awareness that she already has.

Writing this, I can now see there is no way she can develop BPD without trauma... Too much awareness. It helped to write about it.
 Thank you khimbosis for bringing the conversation there.

I do hope things improve with your nephew. It sounds like he is well supported by you and your sister.
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