Need advice

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Our apartment is not too big and my home life revolves around our relationship. Maybe I have to slowly build up a network of hobbies at home. Not having much to do for myself leaves me feeling trapped when considering "shutting down conversations". I can clean, cook, play with the boys, read, but she's following me around and constantly engages in conversation. Sometimes she tires and leaves for the bed.

The hardest part of shutting down conversations is that she will only pick up another tool from her manipulation box. She can approach the subject from angles I'm not prepared for.


She wants me to write an email to the pre school teachers and explain the situation. That could be relevant because the situation might affect S6s time at pre school. Of course she would want to read it. Is there any way I can write a short and informative email without it being weird? And without mentioning that W is out of line.


Before that, she wanted me to write to my ex and tell her to leave us alone (without any previous contact or any problems having emerged yet). She spoke about how she will not say hi to her or smile to her ever.


I don't think this is fear of abandonment. Yesterday, she went on and on about how I'm a liar for not telling her this the first day I suspected it. Before that, she wondered why I didn't think it through before I told her. It's more a fear of humiliation.

[15years]

Our apartment is not too big and my home life revolves around our relationship. Maybe I have to slowly build up a network of hobbies at home. Not having much to do for myself leaves me feeling trapped when considering "shutting down conversations". I can clean, cook, play with the boys, read, but she's following me around and constantly engages in conversation. Sometimes she tires and leaves for the bed.

The hardest part of shutting down conversations is that she will only pick up another tool from her manipulation box. She can approach the subject from angles I'm not prepared for.


She wants me to write an email to the pre school teachers and explain the situation. That could be relevant because the situation might affect S6s time at pre school. Of course she would want to read it. Is there any way I can write a short and informative email without it being weird? And without mentioning that W is out of line.


Before that, she wanted me to write to my ex and tell her to leave us alone (without any previous contact or any problems having emerged yet). She spoke about how she will not say hi to her or smile to her ever.


I don't think this is fear of abandonment. Yesterday, she went on and on about how I'm a liar for not telling her this the first day I suspected it. Before that, she wondered why I didn't think it through before I told her. It's more a fear of humiliation.

[Notwendy]

That's completely out of line IMHO.

If I was in the special education teacher's situation, and the child of the boy I had a teen love interest in was my student, it would be no big deal as this is history. We were kids. We are not kids now.

Now, if I got an email from him or his wife, or one went to the school about it being an issue, I would think he and his wife were crazy. It would actually scare me that they brought this stuff up as I'd think they were going to be crazy stalkers or something like that. That teacher would not be able to work with your child- as she'd need to stay far away from all of you to avoid false accusations.

I'd also be upset because such an email might make the school question my integrity. They might believe that there was something going on and this would impact my professionalism and even my job. The school might fire me to avoid any trouble,

What your wife wants you to do could result in a lot of harm to this person whose only mistake was having a teen crush on you. It's vindictive and it's crazy.

This teacher doesn't deserve this. This is your family's problem. You don't get to enroll your kid in this school and harass the teacher like this. IMHO, you need to withdraw your child as it's pretty clear your wife intends to make this teacher's life miserable.

[Notwendy]

Also, to reiterate what Forever Dad said- taking your child out of the school only solves this one problem and it spares the teacher from your wife's feelings,  but it won't solve your wife's fixation on any love interest you ever had or any hint you might be looking at a woman- even if it's on TV or a picture.

Your child starting school is a transition into a much larger pool of what your wife might see as "potential threats". While she's fixated on this one teacher at the moment, she also worries that other mothers might "chat you up" and also will refuse to speak or make eye contact to any threat at school.

I am looking at this from the perspective of a mom who was involved in my kids' schools as a volunteer. Sometimes we did interact with the fathers over school projects, events, sports teams and even the fathers of my kids' friends. Thank goodness none of their wives made unfounded assumptions and refused to look or speak to me or sent emails to the school. The result would more likely be that the mothers will avoid you and not allow their kids to play with your kids to avoid dealing with people who act like that.

While your kids were too young to attend school- school age opens up a lot more opportunities for interactions with kids, parents, and school staff. Your wife had more control over the kids environments before they were old enough to go to school. Even if you moved to avoid any ex gf's there's still possibly pretty teachers and pretty mothers out there.

It's one thing for you to choose to allow your wife to act out on her jealousies when it only affects you,  but this new stage for your kids could extend her behavior to harassing others- and enlisting you to do it for you.

[ForeverDad]

Trying to straddle the Boundary Line by appeasing will only make things worse.  Appeasing your spouse in this way would be "completely out of line".  The more you look for ways to walk on eggshells the more you'll get lost in the weeds and miss the big picture.

In some cases we can try to seek a middle ground.  But as Notwendy pointed out, there are potential ramifications, huge negative ones, when it involves other people.

[On_the_Fence]

I think you need to rip off the bandaid.  Tell your wife the truth, get ahead of the issue, and reassure her that you have no lingering feelings for this teacher and that you will maintain appropriate boundaries with her.  That is your side of the street.  Whatever your wife does in response you can't control and you are not responsible for.  You can't live the rest of your life dancing around BPD worried about your wife's reactions every time there is a triggering situation.  I did that for 20 years and became very unhappy.  

Also, do what is best for your child.  If being in that school in that school is what is best for your child and your "ex" works there then your wife will need to learn to accept the situation.  I apologize if I am blunt, but your story reminded me of so many experiences I have had with my wife and I reached my max dancing around, never sure where I stood, and always feeling responsible for triggering outbursts.  After 20 years I've decided not to live like that anymore.

[coolspring]

I can understand your concern, in these situations either way you handle it could be wrong. I feel your anxiety about causing a blow up. While recuperating from a severe head injury, my HwBPD  ( age 70) took all of my old photo albums out of storage for me to look at to give me something quiet to occupy my time.Some are from 40-50 years ago and contain family photos that included my ex-husband. When I went to bed that night my husband started looking thru the albums. He then started raging, slamming things, turning the TV to the highest volume. Now mind you I was supposed to be in a calm quiet environment due to my injury. When I opened the bedroom door to ask him to be quiet, I saw that the albums were thrown all over the floor.He then started screaming how I have been fawning over my ex all of our married life of 39 years!

[Cat Familiar]

These types of issues are going to repeat over and over as long as you give them any weight. Even considering writing a letter is affirming that there’s something worth considering.

NO

It’s total nonsense. And as long as you support it, by even considering there’s any validity there, she will feel that she’s right and want you to do outlandish things that will make you, her, and by extension, you children LOOK INSANE.

You’ve got to cut this out. No more validating the invalid. Otherwise your children will become weird outliers in school and have lingering issues throughout their lives.

[Manic Miner]

Agree with others. This could potentially ruin the teacher (your ex) and make you and your children look like the family of Crazinaries. Don't do it.

[I Am Redeemed]

I don't think this is fear of abandonment. Yesterday, she went on and on about how I'm a liar for not telling her this the first day I suspected it. Before that, she wondered why I didn't think it through before I told her. It's more a fear of humiliation.

I think it's a product of enmeshment, and I will explain why.

I have the unique perspective of both being in a relationship with someone who was psychotically jealous and made ridiculous demands such as your wife does, as well as being the person who was as jealous as your wife is at one time in my life.

When I was much younger, I had many emotional problems that I now know came from undiagnosed CPTSD. I used to have extreme reactions exactly as your wife does- trying to control any and every aspect of my partner's life that involved the possibility of an attraction to another woman. It was a very deep seated psychological issue that stemmed from a very black and white view of a perfect, ideal love. It was a complete fantasy that stemmed from childhood trauma and it involved the idea that true love meant that any and all romantic interests before the current relationship were mistakes, invalid, and must be obliterated in order for the "true love" to actually be "true". It was very much an indication that my idea of romantic love was two people who were enmeshed, and there was no room for any attraction to anyone else- it was unbearable to me because my inner traumatized child was running the show.

This behavior continued through my twenties. In my thirties, I began to mature enough to realize that it was not normal, yet I could still not find a way to stop the emotional pain associated with it. Finally, in my forties, after trauma therapy, I was able to get a handle on it. I am not currently in a relationship now. However, I still think these irrational thoughts would surface if I was- I cannot control them, no matter how illogical, but the difference is that I recognize them for what they are and use the tools I have learned in trauma therapy to resolve them. They are my inner child still acting from a place of pain, but I am the adult who has learned to resolve them and not make them my partner's responsibility.

On the flipside, I had a couple of partners do the same things to me on a very violent and dangerous scale and it was terrifying. Controlling, demanding that I do ridiculous things to make sure that I cut off any and all male friends whether I had any romantic involvement (ever) or not.

I agree with Cat that entertaining this as an issue is validating the invalid, even though, as I said, I once was a person who was as emotionally disturbed over this kind of thing as your wife is. It is her issue to sort out. You are not responsible for bolstering her fantasy that ideal love means the complete rejection of any and all members of the opposite sex in order to solidify the idealized bond between you two.

Do NOT write the letter. Do NOT even entertain it as an appropriate action for the "situation". There IS no situation;  it exists only in her mind and it is complete insanity for her to expect you to address something that literally no rational adult would consider as an issue. It's another way of letting her control you.

That being said, if she has already been physically violent over this "issue", you need to put your energy into a safety plan. She does not get to physically hurt you because she cannot stand that you were attracted to a girl when you were 14 years old. You need to address that issue, because that really is a problem- you cannot live your life in fear of being attacked every time she demands that you split any other woman black and put her on a pedestal. Do you see that she is unable to recognize gray areas? It is possible to have had romantic attraction to a person years ago AND love and be attracted to your wife in the present. She can't see that. She cannot accept neutral feelings about former love interests. There can only be "I hate that person now, they are ugly" instead of "I have no interest in that person while still wishing them no harm".

[Notwendy]

Thank you I Am Redeemed for your story and insight on how this must feel. I am glad you overcame your feelings of jealousy. The "black and white" choices don't leave any room for other feelings that are non-threatening to a relationship such as sentimentality. I think feeling shame for caring about someone long in the past is also a rejection of a part of you but that is not one's own feeling. It is enmeshment when a partner blames you for your jealousy.

I think many of us here struggle with lack of self love. One needs to reclaim love for self now and love for self in the past and not allow someone else to shame us for who we are - now or who were were then.

It's also something our own kids get curious about in time. What were you like as a child, as a teen. They will begin to have their own feelings about someone else and ask you what it was like when you were a teen. Of course we don't share TMI with kids but we need to be able to connect with their feelings. If we feel shame for our own experiences, we risk shaming our kids too.

[15years]

I felt for a moment that an email to the other teachers would have been appropriate considering the alternatives. Your replies here was a much needed reality check. I fell for the urgency for a moment, AGAIN.

reassure her that you have no lingering feelings for this teacher and that you will maintain appropriate boundaries with her.

Shortly after writing my last post and reading the first couple of replies, I guarded myself up with this suggestion from On_the_Fence in mind. But she made it easy for me and dropped the email idea all on her own. I think she wouldn't have wanted to start drama at pre-school as it would have caused her great anxiety and shame. The email idea was just one in a chain of many disordered responses.

Now she's at a stage of calmly sharing her thoughts and feelings. For example she told me: "Am I right when I feel that all your previous girlfriends have been 'simple minded', as opposed to me who is intelligent. And you're not attracted to simple minded people?" - It's ridiculous. Any suggestions how to handle this when she's not angry? Changing the subject might work when she has delivered her message and received her validation, but not before that.

I think it's a product of enmeshment, and I will explain why.

...

That being said, if she has already been physically violent over this "issue", you need to put your energy into a safety plan. She does not get to physically hurt you because she cannot stand that you were attracted to a girl when you were 14 years old. You need to address that issue, because that really is a problem- you cannot live your life in fear of being attacked every time she demands that you split any other woman black and put her on a pedestal. Do you see that she is unable to recognize gray areas? It is possible to have had romantic attraction to a person years ago AND love and be attracted to your wife in the present. She can't see that. She cannot accept neutral feelings about former love interests.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. This is exactly the problem. In the moment it might seem silly to "refuse" to paint someone black to make her feel better, but somehow it seems important to be true to oneself too. And I understand that it works like a drug to her.

Do you think I should address this with her or do you mean I should address it in myself somehow? Could she at all be susceptible to change this thought pattern on my initiative?

[15years]

These types of issues are going to repeat over and over as long as you give them any weight. Even considering writing a letter is affirming that there’s something worth considering.

NO

It’s total nonsense. And as long as you support it, by even considering there’s any validity there, she will feel that she’s right and want you to do outlandish things that will make you, her, and by extension, you children LOOK INSANE.

You’ve got to cut this out. No more validating the invalid. Otherwise your children will become weird outliers in school and have lingering issues throughout their lives.

You're right, peoples minds are not designed to comprehend all the underlying factors when something seems weird. People assume things. My children's reputation and life could be affected even if they themselves would be totally normal.

[Notwendy]

It is possible to have had romantic attraction to a person years ago AND love and be attracted to your wife in the present. She can't see that. She cannot accept neutral feelings about former love interests. There can only be "I hate that person now, they are ugly" instead of "I have no interest in that person while still wishing them no harm".

It was a very deep seated psychological issue that stemmed from a very black and white view of a perfect, ideal love. It was a complete fantasy that stemmed from childhood trauma and it involved the idea that true love meant that any and all romantic interests before the current relationship were mistakes, invalid, and must be obliterated in order for the "true love" to actually be "true"

I think this statement from I am redeemed helps explain your wife saying things like "all your other gf;s were simple minded but I am intelligent".

While you ask how to respond to this, it's hard to have any control over irrational thinking. It may be time to just not engage in discussing this at all- and answer like "honey, I am with you now, I don't want to discuss the past" and a safety plan if she reacts violently.

[kells76]

This stood out to me:

I fell for the urgency for a moment

*******

she made it easy for me and dropped the email idea all on her own.

What you did (or didn't do) at the part marked ******* seems pretty important.

...

I'm with Notwendy here:

It may be time to just not engage in discussing this at all- and answer like "honey, I am with you now, I don't want to discuss the past" and a safety plan if she reacts violently.

I think I've said this before and I'll repeat myself: has it ever helped anything for you to engage with her about your past relationships? Was there finally a time where, after "just one more" discussion with her about your previous interests, she said "Whew, now I feel relief and can close the book on this"?

Would things really be "worse" in your relationship now if you had a firm boundary of saying what Notwendy suggested? (Or, a variation: "Babe, this sounds important to you. I will discuss it only in counseling if you truly want to bring it up. Otherwise, I have nothing more to say")

As others have said, engaging with her paranoia -- even to try to explain that she has nothing to worry about -- only "proves" to her that there's "something there".

There will likely be an "extinction burst" if you choose to stop engaging with her demands for you to talk about your past. If you can prepare for that, it would not surprise me if after she stops getting the engagement she wants via that channel, things die down (at least there).

[15years]

Hi all,

This issue popped up again in a dramatic, almost theatrical way yesterday.


All the kids' parents were invited to the pre-school yesterday, a way for them to show their world to their parents. We both went, but W was skeptical because she feels I suffocate her at social events, leaving her invisible socially. So, she was in a bad mood from the start, also because she feels I am too friendly with other moms. I commented to one mom the other day, that our boys have become good friends, she responded that her boy would be interested in meeting my boy outside of pre-school too. I responded positively to this but didn't switch numbers or anything like that. I told my wife about it of course, which made her very angry.

So, she was in a bad mood, but trying to be happy for S6. We were sitting in a sofa at pre-school looking at our sons sketches and different assignments in a folder, when I suddenly heard that the special-ed teacher, my so called ex, was in the room, it seems she has an office upstairs in the same building. I focused on acting like I hadn't noticed her, hoping that she wouldn't notice me, which worked, and a minute later she was gone. My wife had noticed too and was probably equally stressed, but for different reasons of course. She was whispering to me and sounded unstable, but we continued the visit quite normally. Before leaving, my son insisted that he wanted to show me the space upstairs, where they are allowed to go sometimes and play. I didn't meet the special ed teacher eye to eye, but I noticed that she was there, and my wife noticed too. W was walking up behind me hissing to me: "don't say hi to that ". I was so stressed I couldn't focus on my son, and S2 was becoming angry so I told S6 that we have to go now, and I went downstairs. As we were exiting the building, the special ed teacher came down too but we escaped her by a few seconds, and I thought that this stressful event was now over.

I was mostly fearing social humiliation this whole time of course. Any trouble with W could be dealt with later.

But my wife had other plans, because she was very angry. She wanted me to confirm that it was the right person, sort of identify her. I told her no I won't do that and asked her to follow me and the boys to the car. She didn't but showed up at the car when I had buckled up the boys, but she still insisted that I identify the special ed teacher, I again told her no. She told me that she won't enter the car before I do, but I ignored her. The special ed teacher was finishing work and walked off, so my wife went after her, practically stalking her. It was dark and rainy; I didn't know where they went but drove around the block looking for them. At last, I found my wife, she entered the car and told me "I told her off", seemingly proud but shaken/high. I didn't ask for any details, but apparently, she approached the special ed teacher when she was sitting down in her car. She had criticized her for showing up unwanted downstairs when the parents where there, but she didn't explain who she was, and the s. e. teacher had repeated several times that she didn't know who she was. At least she didn't say any nasty things about her looks or anything like that.

W insisted she did the right thing, because she is a natural diva and people should learn that, and nobody should "f#ck with her".

[Notwendy]

It would be interesting to know what the special ed teacher thought of that. Possibly she was quite shook up and reported it. At the least, she probably thinks your wife is crazy to go off to her like that.

What do you think ?

[Cat Familiar]

Agree with Notwendy. Wouldn’t be surprised if police show up at your door one day if this behavior repeats itself.

[I Am Redeemed]

This is the kind of behavior that gets people banned from places and gets restraining orders put on them.

[15years]

Apparently, she also told her to "leave my family alone!". Which is totally off because we have not heard anything from her in these three months, my son has never even mentioned her to us although he has participated in different tests that she has supervised. So, no direct communication with us yet, and no close relationship with our kid either it seems. Sounds ideal in these circumstances, right? Well now she surely will observe my son more closely, knowing his mother is this weird.

I wonder if I should do something about this or stay out of it.

I don't think people here involve the Police that easily. Even if it is uncomfortable, it's not illegal to confront someone you don't know.
I think they could possibly report it just to have it on record if more things happen, but at this point, nothing would be done about it.

I have a feeling this special ed teacher is a little insecure herself, my feeling is that she will not do anything about it more than seek support from friends.


The humiliation for me is the worst thing. And if it affects my children.


And I'm also aware that things are getting worse, so there are more to come surely.


Hadn't thought about this, but she has a tendency to confront people, but mostly on text message. She thinks all people are so flawed and everyone disappoints her. I told her yesterday that she sounds like one of those people who say that they only like animals, which made her laugh.

[Notwendy]

While I understand your first concern is for you and your family, what about the teacher whose only mistake was to have ever dated you a long time ago?

All she was doing was her job. She didn't even speak to you. It's parent night at school and out of the blue your wife accosts her like that? This was completely uncalled for and inappropriate on her part.

She may not involve authorities but surely she spoke to a supervisor. False accusations like this are not to be taken lightly.

Your wife has taken this "old girlfriend" think way too far, with you, and everyone else. It's one thing if you want to put up with her abusing you over that, but now she's done it to someone else.

IMHO, your part is to decide what to do about your own relationship. This action is on your wife. I don't know what the consequences are for something like this, or if there's any, but this is her behavior.

[15years]

What would you do in my situation?

I do feel sorry for the teacher - I have thought about contacting her and explaining, but that feels too risky, and possibly not even appropriate.

Also, it would feed directly into my wife's belief that I have sympathy for everyone but her.


What I think I really should do...
1. separate
2. divorce
3. have no responsibility for my wife's behavior.

[Notwendy]

Honestly, as a female, I see it from the teacher's perspective. I would say absolutely do not contact her. Any further contact from your wife or you would only frighten her more. If I were in her situation, any contact would prompt me to contact authorities.

Your wife has put her in a precarious situation. It's her job to work with the children at that school. With your wife's false accusation, she may not be able to do this, or enter your children's classroom without jeopardizing her job. Your wife potentially could cause this teacher professional harm. She's worked hard to gain her degree to work with children with learning issues. And now your wife has put this in peril for her own feelings that have nothing to do with this teacher.

This teacher very likely doesn't want contact with you or your family and may need to bring a supervisor with her when she does work with your child's class for her own protection professionally.

As to your marriage, that's up to you.

[babyducks]

From my perspective the chance that the teacher didn't report this to someone is virtually nil.

With the heightened levels of security concerns every where but especially around schools caring for vulnerable children I would suspect she is mandated to report to her supervisor or management.

I would also guess that some of this was picked up on security cameras somewhere.

My two cents is you can't fix this.   And that you shouldn't protect your wife from any consequences of her harassing behavior.

[15years]

Honestly, as a female, I see it from the teacher's perspective. I would say absolutely do not contact her. Any further contact from your wife or you would only frighten her more. If I were in her situation, any contact would prompt me to contact authorities.

Your wife has put her in a precarious situation. It's her job to work with the children at that school. With your wife's false accusation, she may not be able to do this, or enter your children's classroom without jeopardizing her job. Your wife potentially could cause this teacher professional harm. She's worked hard to gain her degree to work with children with learning issues. And now your wife has put this in peril for her own feelings that have nothing to do with this teacher.

This teacher very likely doesn't want contact with you or your family and may need to bring a supervisor with her when she does work with your child's class for her own protection professionally.

As to your marriage, that's up to you.

I can see what you mean about that. So there's really nothing I can do then? I don't see what I would have done differently either, if anything I did everything to prevent it. I'm glad I wasn't present or shamefully lurking nearby.

She's proud of what she did, and the episode ended me being painted black. She needs us to have the teacher as our common enemy and she is forcing herself into thinking I am on her side, although I have not given any indication that I am.


On a side note, she quite honestly shared her feelings yesterday about the sadness/terror she feels about life getting bigger and bigger. She misses her childhood when the world was smaller. Me having ex-girlfriends makes life feel frightening, wide and threatening. My boys having social lives of their own is probably threatening too. Me leaving her even worse. I think I have to learn to be aware that this vulnerable side of her exists simultaneously as the scary one.

Reminds me of the Waif-Queen-Witch theory.
Reminds me of the Billie Eilish-video "Hostage".

[15years]

From my perspective the chance that the teacher didn't report this to someone is virtually nil.

With the heightened levels of security concerns every where but especially around schools caring for vulnerable children I would suspect she is mandated to report to her supervisor or management.

I would also guess that some of this was picked up on security cameras somewhere.

My two cents is you can't fix this.   And that you shouldn't protect your wife from any consequences of her harassing behavior.

Knowing the local culture of my area, I would assume that she should report it to her supervisor, but that they won't do much about it other than have it written down in case things escalate. I have a session with my T at the DV-center next Tuesday, I will ask her what she thinks. I'm not sure security cameras are such a big thing here, I think you need very legitimate reasons for accessing footage. This wasn't a crime although it was inappropriate. The ball is more in the hands of the teacher, she is in the role of the professional and is expected to deal with this professionally, which means reporting it to her supervisor I guess.

How she will handle the continued professional relationship with my son is my biggest concern.


If anything, it would be a relief if there were consequences for my wife, but I suspect that not much will happen.

[Notwendy]

What your wife did isn't illegal in the US either. If she were to continue to threaten the teacher, the teacher could get a restraining order, for her own protection. That itself isn't a criminal accusation unless your wife were to violate that.

With a few exceptions, no professional can provide services for a child without parental permission. If your wife told this teacher to stay away from you and your family, she can't work with your child. Also the teacher can decide to protect herself and request to not work with your child to avoid any false accusation. If your child qualifies for special ed services, the school would need to assign someone else to provide it. My best guess is that the teacher could not have a professional relationship with your child at this point, although it would be no fault of hers. Schools here take parent complaints seriously and err on the side of caution, for their own protection.

If your tendency has been to protect your wife, I'd stay out of this or you too are a part of this behavior. She probably won't face legal repercussions but I think she's shown a side of her that the school will pay attention to.

[ForeverDad]

I have nothing more to add to the others' observations.  Your spouse went too far.  There will be repercussions, the extent is what's unclear.

What I think I really should do...
1. separate
2. divorce
3. have no responsibility for my wife's behavior.

"What I think I really should do..."  You've been on the fence for a long time.  Sadly, the typical pattern is it gets worse.  Probably it will literally blow up somehow, somewhere, sometime.  We know it, we can sense it looming.  You you know it too, and can sense it too.  Will you get in front of it or will you let it fester as it plays out before your eyes?

"Separation" in itself is not a solution, you're still connected to someone with serious mental health issues.  But as the start of a divorce process, it lets the court as The Authority make Orders that serve as a Boundary that she won't listen to from you.

"Divorce" is almost certainly a foregone conclusion.  The question is When.  Will you be dragged there unprepared, or will you Accept the risks now and take actions (plan and prepare wisely) before that option becomes moot?

"Have no responsibility" won't work, not long term, as long as the marriage is there to egg your spouse on... and you're connected to her.  This isn't going to end here.  If you take no action to stop (or at least address) this slow motion train wreck, from one perspective you'll be complicit in impacting a professional's life, perhaps forcing this issue to be addressed by the school and limiting what help your children can receive there.

And just distance from someone in your long ago past isn't a realistic solution.  What if you have to stop talking to the female cashier at the checkout lane lest your spouse get upset?  What if it's the female staff at the bank?  What if... You get my drift.  Any female that smiles at you may face your spouse's ire.

Back in the final years of my failed marriage, I faced that too.  My then-spouse got terribly upset when a young woman in the congregation in all innocence leaned over, probably greeting a child, and she raged and accused me of looking down her modest dress.  Then on the road stopping at a light she raged because I was looking at a (much older) woman crossing the street.  The distressing reality?  It. Doesn't. End.

Of course, even divorce is not a complete remedy, there will still be incidents.  But (1) it separates you from complicit responsibility and (2) it does permit the court to set some Boundaries of behavior (in the form of orders) that she won't obey from you.  Parenting will still be fraught with conflict but it ought to be better than the way things are now.

[15years]

This might sound absurd but I'm aware of it and I'm keeping an open mind, I think it's so easy to be biased.

What if the teacher came up with a fake work matter to visit parents' night just to show up, being curious and hoping to get energy from an interaction with me? Does that change anything? I assume she has all the parents contact details including my name, and she seem like the kind of person who wouldn't easily forget a name of a crush even if it's way back in the past. I wouldn't either. I wouldn't judge her for being tempted to show up or even showing up, because even if it would have been a little unprofessional, I think it's totally human.

Whatever the case, my wife's behavior was unnecessary, I'm just saying I wonder if I or anyone else is in a position to judge her behavior.

An alternative view of the episode:
1. Teacher shows up out of curiosity, no way she doesn't know her teenage love interest has a child in this pre-school.
2. My wife is expected to be nice and tolerate this although there are ulterior motives, which is to get some emotional reaction/interaction with me. My wife being generally sensitive to social situations, notices this.
3. W can't stand on the side and simply tolerate this kind of behavior and decides that she isn't a coward or a pushover and confronts the teacher who is trying to get energy from her husband.
4. The teacher is lying to her when she says she doesn't know who she is. It's not impossible that she would want to get attention from an old crush and would want to impress me having made a career for herself or impress me with her looks. I know I wouldn't mind impressing her myself. If my wife wouldn't have been there, I probably would have wanted her to be a little impressed by me too, I can't lie about that.



I know it's an overreaction, but still. You all know the somewhat dated but maybe still relevant cliché of a women who is flirting with a married man and acts innocent when confronted. Who am I to take the side of the other woman in this case? My wife not trusting me would of course be an issue here, but I can't judge her for that either. For better or worse, I am an easy-to-impress kind of man even if I don't show it extrovertly and most wives wouldn't appreciate that in a husband. However, it's also a quality to easily like people, soI don't judge myself for it.

I have been quite successful at staying neutral and have even managed to make her understand why I personally think it's more effective to be polite whatever motive others have. But this is based on my personality, and a quality of mine, a way to feel empowered. If politeness makes my wife feel weak, what options does she have in a situation where someone is flirting with her husband? Being direct and honest makes her feel empowered, so what would you have suggested she would do?


My conclusion now is that I do understand everyone in this situation, there are varying personalities at play here. My wife shouldn't have picked a fight with the teacher because of the professional nature of the relationship, and I hope this doesn't affect the children. But knowing my wife, the option to let it go would have fueled her anger.



I'm not naive, I know this specific incident might be one in a chain of incidents and looking back, this might be a turning point for the worse. Also, I have been listening to this all weekend and the more I listen the more I start seeing her view clearer than mine, which is a standard development in our debates.

[Notwendy]

Did your wife come up with this theory that the teacher showed up on purpose because of you or did you come up with it?

[15years]

Did your wife come up with this theory that the teacher showed up on purpose because of you or did you come up with it?

My wife did of course But it could still be the case. My wife's behavior was affected by her disorder, that's clear. But what if she's correct in her reading of the situation? I think she could be.