Just annoying

[pursuingJoy]

H is running a long race with a few of my cousins late October. I was planning to go and play soccer mom, hold their stuff and take photos. He asked me last night if it was ok if his mom came too. I suspect he told her about it and already invited her.

The race takes about 3 hrs. You can see the runners once or twice, and that's if you're willing to walk a half mile across rough terrain to get to the point where you can see them.

I'm annoyed that neither of them have thought through the practical pieces of a 78 year old with major balance issues who refuses to use a cane on a race course with port-a-potties and rough terrain, and no shelter if there's bad weather. It's cold in October.

I'm annoyed he's asking me to babysit. I run these mud runs, and I love to walk around and admire the runners' tenacity. I run these too, and I've seen amputees and people in wheelchairs and people trying so hard to do their best. I'm the rando who runs and cheers and claps for strangers. I'm excited my cousins are running, too, and I'll want to go and catch them at every point I can. She won't be able to stand the entire time, and I have zero desire to haul chairs into the course and stay seated with my MIL, in awkwardness at best, her misery and snark at worst.

I'm annoyed he even asked. Technically I didn't clarify a boundary around situations like this, but how is this even common sense? After all we've been through, how is it a good idea for me to be alone with her for that long?

I would invite his daughter and fiance to come but they'll be on their honeymoon.

I thought about recommending that she arrive closer to the finish time, but she would have to have someone pick her up and walk her through the parking fields to the location. I'm not volunteering, I want to watch my husband and cousins run.

My only other thought is to point out some of the practical observations above, and to suggest that she come to a shorter race we're running next April, one I'm running in too.

Maybe this will all fizzle and she won't come. I'm not sure she wants to. From what I know about her, she wants to be included but it's all about her. I think he wants his mom to come and participate in his life and support him.

And guilt. And sadness. Because if I bent over backwards, I could do all of the things and make this happen for the two of them. I don't want to, not in the least.

[livednlearned]

pj, I feel guilty how validated I feel when you write about these kinds of scenarios. Annoyance would fall short of the true feelings I have when SD25 is tacked onto events without H considering my experience.

I know you'll find good language and a way to make things work so you aren't babysitting. I expect there is frustration in knowing you have to even think about how you'll respond. Maybe MIL can join SD on her honeymoon 

I'm a week away from friend's wedding in the town I lived in for 20 years. It's been two years since I've been there and I can't wait to see friends. My BPD stepdaughter, who once lived there, was invited by H to join us and I'm embarrassed to admit I've lost sleep over it.

I managed to find a solution that hits all the criteria for how I navigate these issues, but what was supposed to be a trip for me to see my friend get married became a trip to reunite H's kids under one roof, for a big chunk of our trip.

Families! 

Are you planning to see if things fizzle?

I admit that a solution to my own issue came from the heavens on the wings of luck. Our original Airbnb was no longer available to rent, so we ended up renting two airbnb condos located side by side. Maybe something similar will occur for you. 

I do find that asking H common sense questions paced apart, or making suggestions that solve my stuff without discussing things head on -- those two things can get me close to something workable.

It's aggravating being the ones navigating these issues.
 

[GaGrl]

I agree with lnl -- common sense questions about logistics should get your H and you close to a place of agreement on how to handle this. Just don't get backed into a corner!

The day you describe physically sounds miserable. Add three hours of MIL and I would be chewing off my arm.

[Woolspinner2000]

Any chance that there'll be media coverage, especially of the finish line, so she could participate from her warm home?

 
Wools

[kells76]

He asked me last night if it was ok if his mom came too.

I'm annoyed he's asking me to babysit.

Just to make sure I'm tracking... did he specifically ask you to take care of MIL?

I ask because if he's literally "only" asking "can Mom come too", I could picture saying something like:

"Babe, I have no problem with your mom being at the event, and I'm confident you can find a care attendant to be with her the whole time"

Kind of depends how direct he was and what he really meant by "can Mom come too" -- if there was some implicit stuff below the surface.

[Methuen]

I'm a wee bit disappointed in myself to admit   that I am feeling a bit of camaraderie with you all on this board because we all struggle with numerous multiple repetitive annoying behaviors from our pwBPD or their enablers.  There is no exit strategy from their inconsiderate or maladaptive behaviors, other than NC or death.  That we sometimes reach the end of our rope is not unreasonable, or unexpected, and I think we can forgive ourselves if we occasionally slip up and don't give the "ideal" response to these behaviors.  Having said that, I am sorry you have to go through this PJ.  Again.

The day you describe physically sounds miserable. Add three hours of MIL and I would be chewing off my arm.

This evoked a belly laugh from me.  Thank you for that GaGrl.

I know you'll find good language and a way to make things work so you aren't babysitting. I expect there is frustration in knowing you have to even think about how you'll respond...I do find that asking H common sense questions paced apart, or making suggestions that solve my stuff without discussing things head on -- those two things can get me close to something workable.

  I also recently found myself telling a young adult staying in my house that "I have needs too". The individual didn't know what to say.  It's like they hadn't thought of that.  Sometimes I wonder if we are trained to be such "people pleasers" (as well as already having it in our own value system to be helpful and kind to others) that our intimate relationships feel entitled to have us deal with their difficult problems for them (without our needs being considered) because we have set precedents for doing these things in the past. Even once. Just thinking out loud, and probably not applicable to your situation PJ, but thinking out loud helps me to process my stuff.

Any chance that there'll be media coverage, especially of the finish line, so she could participate from her warm home?

 

"Babe, I have no problem with your mom being at the event, and I'm confident you can find a care attendant to be with her the whole time"

To that you could add that you will be running around across fields and rough terrain and it wouldn't be good for her to be alone for the afternoon.  And doesn't she dislike port-a-potties?  Will it be cold for her in October?  Especially if it's raining?  

He asked me last night if it was ok if his mom came too.

When he asked this, I'm guessing it took you off guard.  What did you say in response in that moment?

[pursuingJoy]

The race is this coming Saturday. I'll keep y'all posted and let you know how it goes. Know you'll be with me and I'll be crafting an update post in my head as the day unfolds

I was very clear with H, on 3 occasions and until he started getting annoyed, that I planned to take my good camera and run around the course to get photos. I asked what he had planned for MIL, and he said he would find her a chair to sit in. I asked if he'd communicated with her about port-a-potties, the cold, her balance on rough terrain, and that I'd be running around the course and didn't want MIL to think I was ignoring her. He assured me he had and that I was completely free to run and do my own thing. Time to let them take responsibility from here.

Maybe MIL can join SD on her honeymoon  

ha!  lnl, how I have missed you! I wish I could have stuffed y'all in my pocket to witness the wedding. Super lovely and fun, and exactly what SD wanted but there were layers. SD's mother and grandmother stole the family dysfunction award, at one point bridesmaids were throwing a football around the reception hall and too many drunk people were handling sparklers.  

I'm a week away from friend's wedding in the town I lived in for 20 years. It's been two years since I've been there and I can't wait to see friends. My BPD stepdaughter, who once lived there, was invited by H to join us and I'm embarrassed to admit I've lost sleep over it.

I managed to find a solution that hits all the criteria for how I navigate these issues, but what was supposed to be a trip for me to see my friend get married became a trip to reunite H's kids under one roof, for a big chunk of our trip.

How did this go? I bet the two side by side airbnb's helped some? I hope they did. It's hardly fair though. I would be sad if my trip was co-opted that way.

It's aggravating being the ones navigating these issues.

This. It's not like my husband doesn't know how I feel. In fairness, he does better at communicating plans than he used to. I'm tired of anticipating and trying to sustain my own joy and peace in the midst of their dysfunction.

Add three hours of MIL and I would be chewing off my arm.

omg this had me rolling

Kind of depends how direct he was and what he really meant by "can Mom come too" -- if there was some implicit stuff below the surface.

He hadn't thought through logistics, he was putting out feelers because he didn't want me to get upset if his mom came.

He wants his mom there to watch him run and be proud of him. He tells me stories of how she was the most supportive sports parent ever when he was young. It's hard to picture, honestly. I don't hear any interest in him, his running or his career other than what it benefits her to know. Conversations are always about her. I'm pretty curious to see this play out.

Any chance that there'll be media coverage, especially of the finish line, so she could participate from her warm home?

 
Wools

Unfortunately no media coverage. I'll take the hug though.

I also recently found myself telling a young adult staying in my house that "I have needs too". The individual didn't know what to say.  It's like they hadn't thought of that.  Sometimes I wonder if we are trained to be such "people pleasers" (as well as already having it in our own value system to be helpful and kind to others) that our intimate relationships feel entitled to have us deal with their difficult problems for them (without our needs being considered) because we have set precedents for doing these things in the past. Even once. Just thinking out loud, and probably not applicable to your situation PJ, but thinking out loud helps me to process my stuff.

It absolutely applies. And think about the message you're sending to that young adult, who may find themselves in your shoes in the future. I didn't take full ownership of my needs until I watched my mom take ownership of hers. It's really wonderful to see people older than me enjoy life and claim their space. I'm intentional about the example I set for my kids and nieces and nephews.

I'm there to watch, cheer, support, take photos and carry stuff. The only reason I enjoy these races is because I use my time the way I want to.

To that you could add that you will be running around across fields and rough terrain and it wouldn't be good for her to be alone for the afternoon.  And doesn't she dislike port-a-potties?  Will it be cold for her in October?  Especially if it's raining?  

Exactly what I asked him. Honestly she's not one to go out of her comfort zone. I wouldn't be surprised if she canceled.

Oh heavens. I just had a thought. She will want to bring her medicated anxiety-ridden dog, the reason she broke her ankle and wrist. Can you imagine? We need to head that one off.

Last Thanksgiving MIL was fine all day, but later told H I was mean and ignored her. He came back to me, upset, and asked why I ignored his mom. Sigh. I know how to handle it. It's just exhausting to have to.

Y'all are the best. Thanks for being here.

pj

[GaGrl]

If an entire holiday with MIL resulted in nothing more than a complaint of being ignored, I'd count that as a win.

[Notwendy]

Just mention porta potty. That might be a deal breaker.

I don't think I'm high maintenance but I can't stand them. I hope they have improved since I was a kid but we had them at summer camp and they were so gross.  


I think I'd rather sneak off into the woods to go  

[pursuingJoy]

If an entire holiday with MIL resulted in nothing more than a complaint of being ignored, I'd count that as a win.

Ah, perspective. You're so right. Count my blessings. 

I think I'd rather sneak off into the woods to go 

Saaame NW! They are improved, for sure, but the woods are still pretty attractive.    H claims to have shared all of this with his mom. She's responsible for her choices from here.

[pursuingJoy]

MIL didn't come, y'all.     H was a little sad but turned his energy to enjoying the race with my cousins, people we both enjoy. We all had fun.

MIL was invited to our house for Thanksgiving day, then decided not to come.

MIL asked H to take her to the beach this winter, he said yes and blocked off the time on his work calendar. MIL then backed out and decided not to go.

She doesn't actually WANT to do all the things. She's just set off by perceived rejection.

[Riv3rW0lf]

She doesn't actually WANT to do all the things. She's just set off by perceived rejection.

When there is no abandonment, pwBPD will imagine abandonment and create it for themselves.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy the race without the drama  !  

[zachira]

Glad you were able to enjoy the race without your MIL. Is it possible MIL has the habit of making impossible demands on her son when many of the demands she makes aren't things she can do with him now, as she does not have the energy and capacity to be as active as before?

[Methuen]

It seems you're onto something PJ.

Maybe she wants the attention from saying she will do all these things?  After all, it means other people will have to do planning and work to accommodate her.  That makes her a focus, and she can make demands etc etc.  It creates work for people, and sometimes that leads to conversations and drama.  

But at the end of the day, like you say, she doesn't actually want to do these things.  Could it be that she just likes whatever she gets from making other people do things for her?

 

[livednlearned]

MIL didn't come, y'all.    

Well there goes my popcorn.  

It's interesting reading your update. I did some self-examination when there was no drama during SD25's visit, almost like with your MIL, it felt like a no-show (of sorts). After all the ruminating and preparing I did, things kind of went pfffft.

Do you think that your awareness of triangulation and setting boundaries is part of MIL standing down? Like there aren't fireworks so she focuses on level 1 shenanigans instead of level 2?

[Turkish]

MIL didn't come, y'all.     H was a little sad but turned his energy to enjoying the race with my cousins, people we both enjoy. We all had fun.

MIL was invited to our house for Thanksgiving day, then decided not to come.

MIL asked H to take her to the beach this winter, he said yes and blocked off the time on his work calendar. MIL then backed out and decided not to go.

She doesn't actually WANT to do all the things. She's just set off by perceived rejection.

She's desperately seeking love while being driven by the internal pwBPD script, "my feelings don't matter; therefore, i don't matter and am unworthy of being loved." I'd say that she does want to do these things, but that her internal self-loathing leads to sabotage. Such emotional dynamics are frustrating beyond belief. These dysfunctional behaviors are a self-defeating survival mechanism.

What is the survival? Being validated that she matters, and negative attention is dysfunctionally validating, even if she sets up the script, driven by her self-loathing which has nothing to do with you or her son.

[pursuingJoy]

When there is no abandonment, pwBPD will imagine abandonment and create it for themselves.

This.

Well there goes my popcorn.  

Hahahahaaaa! Right? I was so ready. Come on, let me use my ninja skilz.

Possible that it's self-sabotage, or standing down in the wake of boundaries, or the gratification of making impossible demands. All viable. What I do know is that she is hard to manage when she feels excluded. Including her *when appropriate* is a way to keep her calm.

The *when appropriate* can be a landmine. H and I were on our very first 4-5 day vacation for our anniversary. H, who calls his mom every morning at 6:30, never called his mom once, just ghosted her. At one point during this trip my sibling family reunion came up. H says, "Great, I'll invite mom too."

Huh?  

We got in a huge fight, condensed version. Me: your mom isn't coming to my sibling family reunion. Him: you're so cold, why can't you understand what it's like to be alone? Me: nope.

Looking back, he ghosted her because he knew she'd be upset she wasn't invited to vacation with us. Compound that with zero calls. I'm thinking he wanted to offer her an invitation to my family reunion to pacify her.  

As much as their bond is maladaptive and codependent, he's also spent a lifetime learning her triggers. It's worth observing, and I can add to it if I'm smart. If I could go back, I'd say, "Nope to sibling family reunion, but I look forward to seeing her at (insert other appropriate gathering)." Tips for next time.

Being validated that she matters, and negative attention is dysfunctionally validating, even if she sets up the script, driven by her self-loathing which has nothing to do with you or her son.

Good reminder that it has nothing to do with us. Not taking her (and his) behavior personally is huge.

[pursuingJoy]

Looking back, he ghosted her because he knew she'd be upset she wasn't invited to vacation with us.

Regarding ^ here's what's weird. I don't think she would have come. On some level, I think she knows that it's weird to accompany your son and his wife on their anniversary vacation. I think she just wanted an invitation.

I'm trying to process why it would feel so yucky to invite her even if I know she likely wouldn't come.

[Notwendy]

BPD mother has always disliked my father's family. It was mutual but they managed to be polite around her out of respect for my father and so she was always included in family get togethers. But it's obvious she dislikes them. I assumed once he passed away they'd have little to do with each other.

After my father passed away, my mother's family was alienated from us, but my father's family remained close to us. I spent a lot of time with them as a kid and so grew up close to my cousins on that side, and eventually our kids became close as well. We planned a family reunion as we all wanted to get together. We didn't invite BPD mother. Why would we? She dislikes them.

We did feel badly about telling her we were going on a trip. We felt we should tell her. All the cousins on both sides of the family are on social media, someone was probably going to post something about it. We didn't want that to get back to her and felt it would be very hurtful if she found out about it and we didn't tell her. We also knew it would be hurtful to her that we planned a trip to see them, and not her, but we have also gone to see her more than we have Dad's family as they live farther away.

Yet, we have the right to visit them if we want to and so we told her. She was furious. We imagined she'd be angry because we were visiting them and not her, but one of the things she said she was angry about is that she should have been invited. I doubt she would have gone to visit people she didn't like but it was so odd that she expected that she'd be invited to see people who knew she didn't like them.

Like who invites someone to visit when both of you dislike each other and it's obvious?

Why does it feel yukky to invite your MIL when you know she won't come? Because it's disingenuous. It's a lie. You don't want her to come and inviting her isn't according to your feelings. Whenever we do that, we feel yukky.

[pursuingJoy]

I doubt she would have gone to visit people she didn't like but it was so odd that she expected that she'd be invited to see people who knew she didn't like them.

Like who invites someone to visit when both of you dislike each other and it's obvious?

The expectations are something else, really. I feel like most of us have picked up social cues and conventions to follow, but somehow pwBPD miss the cues or something?

And then of course they're looking for ways to affirm that they've been rejected, which is exhausting to non's. At least it is to me.

Why does it feel yukky to invite your MIL when you know she won't come? Because it's disingenuous. It's a lie. You don't want her to come and inviting her isn't according to your feelings. Whenever we do that, we feel yukky.

For sure, I've felt disingenuous at times. For me, inviting her on our anniversary trip feels yucky in the same way as it did when she walked in on me peeing, and she walked into my bedroom unannounced with my underwear from the dryer, and when she found the picture of her son as a teen wearing shorts and spreading his legs so you could see some hair, and she left the pic at the top of the pile of photos, kept mentioning it and pointing it out. And when they kiss on the mouth. It feels gross.

Btw, she now wants to come for Thanksgiving. I have no idea what changed her mind.

And the apartment building that she has been railing against for a year and desperately looking for an alternative apartment in the area? She decided to move into a different apartment in the same complex. Even my H just shook his head and said, "I don't know, babe. I don't know."

[Riv3rW0lf]

And when they kiss on the mouth. It feels gross.

Do they STILL do that? It doesn't just feel gross, it is gross. I don't even kiss my 18months old son on the mouth. Doesn't feel right. My mouth is for H, that's me though. I know some parents do, but at some point, it usually stops? I remember kissing my BPD mother on the mouth, and I remember the exact moment I stopped because it felt disgusting, I was around 9yo.

It happened once when I was dating a guy that was in a covert incestuous relationship with his mother. She was drunk on new year's eve, and kissed him on the mouth while he was trying to move away. Then looked at me and said : "what?" I was so disgusted, and from our talk in the car afterward, I know he was too.

Is your H comfortable with that?

[pursuingJoy]

Yes they still do it, and H is comfortable with it. His dad and brother passed away 15 and 25 years ago, respectively, before I knew H. H says that they also kissed his dad on the mouth, that it was normal in their family. He insists it's not sexual, and it isn't a lingering kiss...just a solid peck. (Ugh even typing that grosses me out ) She kisses me on the cheek when she's not mad at me.

No one else in their extended family does it. I would understand if it was cultural, but it's not.

I have to look away when they say hello and goodbye, and I don't kiss him until he's brushed his teeth. I can't change him but I can take care of myself

[Riv3rW0lf]

I have to look away when they say hello and goodbye, and I don't kiss him until he's brushed his teeth. I can't change him but I can take care of myself

Yes, I don't think I would ever get used to that if MIL kissed my H on the mouth ! I wonder what it is about it that makes my skin crawls... it just does.