How To Feel

[cleotokos]

So at 70+ years old my dad and s-mom were facing divorce. She had brought her 40+ year old daughter (and her daughter) to live with them. My s-sister assaulted my dad. He threatened to call police and she took s-mom and moved out. She denied assaulting him and claimed him mentioning police was abusive to her.  (Taking s-mom was to help her pay the bills on a place of her own. Everything was about money). This was all part of a larger scheme by s-sister to get s-mom to sell her apartment so s-sister could get her hands on the money. My dad and I saw it coming a mile away but s-mom would not listen. They took nearly everything out of the apartment. I had to get my dad a chair and a lamp for the living room.

My dad was in a bad state, seemed mentally confused. I half wondered if they had been drugging him. I had not had much contact with my dad in recent years because s-mom is jealous and controlling. Any relationship with him needs to be through her or she starts drama. This has been since I was 4. She needs to know she is in full control of him. He was feeling suicidal and I was going to visit him, texting him every day, taking him to the doctor and the lawyer. Stepsister was pushing stepmother to sell the apartment asap with a promise to give him half. Yeah, right. They were trying to boot this elderly man with health problems out as soon as possible. He hired a lawyer, we knew if the money became difficult to get stepsister would abort the plan. It worked.

So that was February, just in the last few weeks stepmother has moved back in. Oh forgot to mention she had been convincing me my dad has dementia and was being abusive towards her. She also told him he had dementia and that his doctor told her that. When he asked his doctor he said absolutely not. Now that I’ve been speaking regularly to my dad he obviously does not have dementia. She was able to convince me because I had so little contact with him. She told me she witnessed the alleged assault and it never happened, he just mistook stepsister reaching for something. My dad has a completely different story and s-mother wasn’t there. I’ve seen her make up lies for her daughter before.

So my dad said stepsister is not allowed at the apartment. Obviously. Stepmother is retaliating with a blanket rule of “no family” allowed at the apartment. Truth is she thinks everything her daughter does is ok and hates the fact that I do not make the same poor choices as stepsister. It’s always been this way and many times I’ve been made to share the consequences of stepsisters behavior. I was supposed to take my dad to a surgery which he asked me to do and now he’s decided to take transit. He did not say s-mother had a problem with me taking him but based on history that’s my conclusion.

Although this has went precisely as I expected, I’m still pissed. Stepmother wants to drive a wedge between my dad and I as she has always done and he lets her as he always has. It hurts. She abandoned him and I was there to help (he truly had nobody else) and he can’t even stand up for me. At this point I feel like I don’t want him in my life! What now, she’ll convince him he is weak with illnesses and dementia while I watch from the sidelines? I have no interest in being a part of their drama triangle. He’s just going to get older and sicker while I can’t help. They seem to have resolved things if you can call it that. Great. If it didn’t mean he had to accept her somehow believing I’m guilty of something, simply for not being her psychopathic daughter it might be workable for me.

[livednlearned]

I would feel pissed too, cleotokos. What a mess to have to clean up, only to be marginalized again. Ugh.  

This is probably the thing I struggle most with my family of origin, too.

How much do we engage, knowing they will consistently make choices that put the more disordered person first?

I guess it comes down to the degree to which you feel comfortable being on the so-called margins.

Have you had conversations with your dad about what's happening, and if so, how did those conversations go?

My parents (80s) think that giving my disordered uBPD brother whatever he wants will appease him and make things easier for everyone, except of course this never happens. He just wants more. He becomes an even bigger bully. Nothing I have ever said changed the way my parents deal with him. If anything, I just get hurt.

I used to think uBPD brother was the problem in our family but now I see it's a system and each person plays a role. My mom is the person who is most vulnerable and fragile but I realize now she wants to see what happens when I stand up for her so she can pat herself on the back for making the right decision to not speak up herself. Meanwhile, I end up taking the bullets and she watches from the sidelines with popcorn.

Are you looking for ways to outmaneuver your step mother, or is it more about going through a cooling off period as you become side lined yet again? Or, I guess another alternative is learning to have a relationship with your dad on an as-needed basis.

I'm kind of resigning myself to the fact that if my dad dies first, my mother will probably be harmed by uBPD brother, and there won't be much I can do. Those systems and roles are so deep and entrenched. It isn't for lack of wanting to help, it's more about what I can realistically do.

Do you have a sense of this for your own situation? A sense of what you can realistically do, given that your dad is not able willing to stand up for himself?

[cleotokos]

I think I’m looking at how I can have a relationship with my dad on an as-needed basis. There is a history of triangulation and I’m not interested in that at all. I wonder if I am ready to tell him “see you later, call me if you get into trouble again”. If I have any sort of relationship with him that doesn’t involve her, she will accuse me of talking negatively about her behind her back. While my dad is happy to pass that message onto me, when I ask him why she thinks that he says “you two need to work it out, I’m not going to be put in the middle”. I will NOT go through that any more. I’ve had conversations with her where she has agreed not to use my dad as a go between but she then does it again. And accuses me of doing the same! I can get no info from him about why she might think I’m asking him to relay any kind of message to her. We don’t even talk about her at all. She can’t imagine my relationship with him is not about her.

Truth is I think he tries to guess at what other people are feeling and thinking, but relays that as if it’s a fact instead of a guess. For example I tried to help stepmother resolve a strata issue (strata is kind of like Canadian HOA). Once I realized she’d lied about my dad being assaulted and having dementia and several other things, I stopped helping her with that. He says to me “stepmother thinks strata issue is your fault” which makes absolutely no sense, because that was an issue caused by stepsister that I was helping her write letters to her strata to resolve. How could anyone logically think the issue was my fault? It has me doubting she said anything of the sort, and thinking he is probably guessing at her feelings. There was another occasion years ago where he told me stepsisters husband was mad at me, and it just didn’t make sense that he would be so I disregarded that. I can’t believe he’s doing this intentionally, if I have to guess I think as a child he probably had to predict what his abusive parents were thinking and feeling a lot. However I’m not sure he’s very good at it. Always believing that others are upset for nonsense reasons. He’s afraid of people being displeased and sees it where it isn’t.

The daddy’s girl thread resonated with me, he had me convinced he was a victim of both my mother and stepmother, and while he was, I’ve seen him be extremely self absorbed as well. I thought he was my only “normal” parent and realizing the ways he’s failed me has been painful. Having my own kids now I can’t imagine allowing anyone to interfere in my relationship with them. Nobody comes before them! I don’t understand how it can be any other way.

[Notwendy]

From my own experience with my father in a similar situation with my BPD mother, I think it's best to not say anything. "See you later- call me" idea for me became the unforgivable statement that my parents used to justify turning against me.

When Dad first got ill, I tried to help with the finances. I also was honest with his doctor about BPD mother as I was concerned she would not be able to take care of him. After BPD mother told people I "forced her to go to the bank and put my name on her accounts" and Dad told me to not discuss her with his doctor, I asked him to designate someone else to help them as clearly, they didn't trust me to do the right thing.

My parents got furious. My mother's fall back if she was angry at me was to remind me of this "failing" in their opinion ( or her opinion, as what Dad thought made no difference- she took precedence ).

By the time Dad passed away, she, or both of them ( I have no idea ) disowned me.

In retrospect, I don't know if things would have turned out any differently had I simply said nothing and not reacted to these accusations. I didn't know much about BPD family dynamics then, and so their behavior felt hurtful and I reacted to it. Now I know it had nothing to do with me and more about her disorder and my father's enabling and the dynamics between them.

Nobody has the right to tell you how to feel. It's understandable to be feeling all kinds of feelings over this situation. Maybe the best thing I could advise you to do is be non reactive to them. It's not you, it's them. Stay in contact with your father on a neutral basis. If he calls you and asks you to help him, help if you can.

It's hard to watch this. I even called social services to see if there was any way to intervene with how BPD mother was treating my father but they said as long as he was legally competent, I could not intervene without his agreement. He'd have never agreed.

I agree, now that I have my own kids, I would go all Momma Bear to protect them. Nobody comes before them to me either. The best way to explain my father's behavior is the co-dependency addiction model. Someone can love their family and still be so addicted to alcohol they can't resist it. Still they are responsible for their behavior. Whatever you feel about it should not be invalidated. It is hurtful.

[Couscous]

Hmmm, so your father seems to enjoy stirring the pot. He’s playing a psychological game called, “Let’s you and him fight”. It’s interesting how he tries to cover his tracks when he tells you things your step-mother says and then claims that he wants to stay out of it. This is how he covertly gets back at your step-mother and step-sister. In terms of Karpman triangle dynamics, in these instances he is acting as persecutor of your step-mother and step-sister.

How has he been doing as a grandfather?

[Notwendy]

The way the triangle played out in my family was that if BPD mother got angry at me- then Dad would step in to "rescue" her against me.

I can see how the dynamic could work to set me up to "get back at her" but I also think the next step- to be able to step in as rescuer was the role that was the more emotionally rewarding.

I also don't think this behavior was consciously done. I don't think he actually planned it out and I don't think he even was aware of it. I think it was driven emotionally by the dynamics between my parents.

This dynamic played out in so many ways. Dad would come to us to ask us to do something we didn't want to do but say "Mother says we need to do this" or if I asked for something he'd say "Mother doesn't want you to have this" which would result in me being angry at her, and him as having to go along with her. When he was older, there were situations where I stepped in as rescuer to him from her. Both these situations directed my anger at her, and hers at me and when there was conflict between me and BPD mother, Dad would align with her and then get angry at me.

I didn't question these dynamics. I don't think he was even aware of these behaviors either. They were the "normal" I grew up with my FOO.

[Mommydoc]

I am pissed for you. Horrible situation and it feels like an emotional rollercoaster. We have all been there.

It sounds like the triangle shifted a couple of times, you became your fathers rescuer and she was his persecutor but now that they have reconciled those roles have reversed again. You clearly love your father. He has chosen your stepmother and you can’t rescue him from himself and their disordered dynamics. Though it may not be intentional, he is choosing to be part of the dysfunction. I understand your emotional need for a “quick exit” as I am experiencing the same thing. My recommendation is to step to the sidelines but don’t exit. Stay in contact with your dad via text, and keep it light and supportive, but don’t re-enter the triangle. You can offer to meet him at his doctors office, to run errands for him, or offer neutral non judgmental support. That might look like something in between the very low contact you had prior to the step- sister assault,  and frequent contact you had following. Adjust accordingly while keeping yourself safe.  I am glad your father called the police and filed a report as if there are additional occurrences the prior report establishes a pattern.  Staying low enough contact to assure your awareness of any real threat to his physical safety is worthwhile, without allowing yourself to  get sucked into their drama. Again, your father has chosen this and the risks associated with situation. You can choose not to be part of it, recognizing that it likely won’t go well for them. Take care of yourself in this!

[Riv3rW0lf]

Stepmother (persecutor) wants to drive a wedge between my dad (savior) and I (victim) as she has always done and he lets her as he always has. It hurts.

She (persecutor) abandoned him (victim) and I (savior)  was there to help (he truly had nobody else) and he (persecutor) can’t even stand up for me (victim). At this point I feel like I don’t want him in my life!

Hi cleotokos, this last paragraph really stood out to me. I identified the actors on the triangle as I see them, based on your narrative... What I see is you wanting to find solutions, you wanting to help your father, but in doing so, it seems you became an active member of the drama triangle, even if this is rarely our objective... There comes a point when we all need to face our own powerlessness, for our own well being. This radical acceptance helps to find our own balance back, to emotionally disconnect, and to step out of the drama triangle... Until the next round we get triggered !  

One thing that really helped me is to think of myself as a cumulation of "parts". It helps in decreasing my identification to my role on the triangle. Whenever I feel sad, it helps to say : "part of me is sad", instead of "I am sad", which kind of make me feel like a victim looking for a persecutor (which is a habit I learned early on). If it is only part of me though, then I can more easily call another part of me to reassure myself and help me through... Hopefully it makes sense. Got it from the book C-PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, really helped a lot. This method also helped me identify my inner healthy parent, and it helps me in staying connected or to reconnect to it more efficiently.

I hear you, it hurts to feel abandoned by our parent. I also felt abandoned many times by my father through my life, when he chose his girlfriends, often abusive ones. I can relate. The only safe way I found to heal myself, however, is emotional distance and reparenting myself.

Sending you support

[cleotokos]

I have had a real hard time figuring out the triangle. I guess because it is ever-shifting. I don’t react when my dad gives me “messages” from my stepmother. I used to react by becoming upset because I didn’t understand what he was telling me. It has never resulted in me confronting my stepmother in any way, but it has driven she and I apart. In recent years I’ve come to decide his “messages” are baseless and to be ignored. There was one time I asked to sit down with the two of them so he could tell me she said X when she was present to say whether she did or not (and so I could say I never said Y to my dad and never asked him to say Y to stepmother to see what they had to say - who came up with the idea I said Y?). Both refused. So, I felt like both knew this is all a sham but don’t want to have to face up to whichever one of them is making it up because then they’d have to deal with that within their relationship.

As a grandfather he’s insufficient. I thought he would be better but he’s fairly disinterested. He doesn’t call my niece on her birthday or Christmas or at any other time. As a couple they’ve gotten her gifts (it’s all my stepmother) but it’s dependent on how my relationship is with my stepmother is at the moment (yes I’m aware that’s fully bonkers). I have been the only way they have a relationship with her since my brother is not in her life. They never attempted to contact her grandparents on her mother’s side, who she lives with (her mother passed). I debate a lot as to whether to even bring her to see them since they make so little effort and don’t really seem to care. He’s not that different with my kids, who are a few years younger. It was 2 or 3 months after my daughter was born before he came to see her (my second - my first he came to the hospital). He lives not far from us. He blames my stepmother for his lack of relationship with my niece but he leaves her to make a relationship with niece for the both of them. I’ve come to observe that she does a lot for him in life, and he’s always used me to vent about her. He thinks she’s a terrible person but has been unable to separate from her for 40 years now. Writing that out I realize this sounds like how my husband views me (says I am awful yet won’t leave) and that I feel like I do way too much for him and he takes advantage.. I thought he was the polar opposite of my dad when we met.