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Author Topic: Lying by Omission to Avoid Fights  (Read 945 times)
Buddy Joe
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« on: September 20, 2022, 09:21:44 PM »

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Am I the only one? I struggle to process my thoughts first before I express it to my pwBPD. It usually gets misunderstood and gets lost in translation. I meant to say this one thing and she understands it in such a way that is bewildering to me. Like, "where did you get that?" or "that wasn't my point and yet your take on it is the complete opposite." And since it's so farfetched, her retort would be that I can't force her to have the same POV as mine, sure that's a given. But what if her POV isn't totally aligned and out of this world? We end up fighting more.

Instead of being honest or frank with her about it, I sugarcoat things or omit certain things just to not cause a fight. She tells me that lying by omission is still lying. True and I do it to keep the peace. She tells me that she rather fights about it than kick it under the rug or not be totally truthful about things.

I did try that before and it didn't work and it just backfires on me. Problem is when I try it her way, we still end up fighting and I just get blamed and invalidated. If I share with her that I felt offended or I was hurt, she gives me a ton of reasons or excuses, thus invalidating whatever I told her. But when she does something similar that she gets pissed about, it should be fine or okay. Like I can't get mad. #doublestandards

I can't help but feel that whatever angle I choose, I'd still be in the wrong no matter what.
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Sluggo
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2022, 10:48:18 PM »

IM so sorry you are going through this.  It is hard because if I am not sharing my  authentic self, then I cannot be loved for who I am authentically.  It is a relationship
whose foundation is being built on quicksand where I can not be 'me' 

Sluggo. 
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2022, 11:00:52 PM »

IM so sorry you are going through this.  It is hard because if I am not sharing my  authentic self, then I cannot be loved for who I am authentically.  It is a relationship
whose foundation is being built on quicksand where I can not be 'me' 

Sluggo. 

My girlfriend tells me that she values trust very much that's why she doesn't approve of my habit of lying by omission even if I mean well to avoid escalating the fights. It just doesn't sit well with me that she expects me to be open to her but the moment I open my mouth, it all goes down south from there. So I rather keep quiet instead. Worst part is when she starts sharing something with me, she labels me as selfish and insensitive for trying to understand her double standard mindset. Most often than not I wonder if she's aware or not. I think she is because she believes she needs a selfless partner or a unicorn one at that. Someone so special and unique. She even said that maybe she needs a partner who also has a mental illness, perhaps it could work her.
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SinisterComplex
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 01:22:03 AM »

So Joe, my dear buddy...yes having a little fun with a pun ;-)

I understand where your thinking is at. Yes it is frustrating. However, instead of lying which in the end will just end up causing more confrontations later on it is better to still be honest, but do so in a firm and indifferent way. This will take you some time to get used to, but it is an effective way to diffuse situations and stop her from escalating it into an emotionally charged blowout. Keep in mind she will always seek to have an emotional blowout. Why? For control purposes. It is always a cat and mouse game...there is never a down time even when you think so.

You are the only one who has the power to make change here. She cannot and most likely will not. So, lead her how you want the relationship to go. You are still walking on egg shells and worried about being right or wrong. This is the wrong mind set to have. When I mention being firm and indifferent that means you focus on yourself not being tied to a particular outcome in any given situation. This is called outcome independence. Ultimately you will be happy and stable regardless of the outcome. A prime example...the couple fight over what to have for supper. Instead of asking hey what do you want to do tell her hey this is what I am hungry for and this what I am doing. If you are not interested then figure out what you want. I gather this would certainly be different territory for you.

If you do try to adopt what I am preaching here it will certainly seem awkward to you at first. I would naturally expect you to hit stumbling blocks, but stick to your guns and focus on being consistent. Strive to not let your emotions pinball from one end of the spectrum to the other. In time it will bear fruit and will become natural to you.

Please continue to vent and share as much as you like. Additionally, feel free to ask as many questions as you need to. Be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2022, 03:52:46 AM »

So Joe, my dear buddy...yes having a little fun with a pun ;-)

I understand where your thinking is at. Yes it is frustrating. However, instead of lying which in the end will just end up causing more confrontations later on it is better to still be honest, but do so in a firm and indifferent way. This will take you some time to get used to, but it is an effective way to diffuse situations and stop her from escalating it into an emotionally charged blowout. Keep in mind she will always seek to have an emotional blowout. Why? For control purposes. It is always a cat and mouse game...there is never a down time even when you think so.

You are the only one who has the power to make change here. She cannot and most likely will not. So, lead her how you want the relationship to go. You are still walking on egg shells and worried about being right or wrong. This is the wrong mind set to have. When I mention being firm and indifferent that means you focus on yourself not being tied to a particular outcome in any given situation. This is called outcome independence. Ultimately you will be happy and stable regardless of the outcome. A prime example...the couple fight over what to have for supper. Instead of asking hey what do you want to do tell her hey this is what I am hungry for and this what I am doing. If you are not interested then figure out what you want. I gather this would certainly be different territory for you.

If you do try to adopt what I am preaching here it will certainly seem awkward to you at first. I would naturally expect you to hit stumbling blocks, but stick to your guns and focus on being consistent. Strive to not let your emotions pinball from one end of the spectrum to the other. In time it will bear fruit and will become natural to you.

Please continue to vent and share as much as you like. Additionally, feel free to ask as many questions as you need to. Be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Hey, Sinister! Your advice was a bit Complex. See what I did there?  Way to go! (click to insert in post)
Kidding aside I appreciate your detailed response to my post. Thank you for making time.  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I ended up feeling hopeless at one point because either way she will have an episode and lash out. If I tell her the truth without sugarcoating anything, she thinks I'm attacking her. When I try and listen and minimize talking, she still feels like I don't listen and don't understand her.

Even with choosing a restaurant, it just came to the point that when she doesn't know where to eat, I give her 2 cuisines that's closest to her heart. I know that the cuisines I like are not her thing and she ends up pissed before, during and after dinner if I chose American or fried foods. My mitigation there would be giving her options and making her think those are my choices when in fact those are really her preferences. I'm not a picky eater so either way I got used to it.

She despises this one co-worker of mine because she feels as if that girl likes me. Even if she didn't see anything or read anything to solidify her assumptions, I just kept my distance to keep the peace. And yet, she would attend gatherings knowing her ex-boyfriend is there. They belong in the same group. She would just tell me for all the men she slept with and this one guy she entered a relationship with, they are all crap and she doesn't give any importance to them. It's all just sex and there are no emotional attachment. That's why I shouldn't be worried. But here we are, she makes a fuss about me associating myself with that colleague whom I didn't have a past with.
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Sluggo
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 11:37:41 AM »

Joe,

Can you see a pathway of communication for you and her?  Will this communication dance be something you can maneuver for long term without losing your voice?

Sluggo
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 03:27:16 PM »

Hi there - Just joined today. Currently going through this myself and yes, this is something I really struggle with. I don't have any advice to give, but just wanted to show up here and say that you're not alone here. Looking forward to discovering more things as I go.
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2022, 01:12:40 AM »

Joe,

Can you see a pathway of communication for you and her?  Will this communication dance be something you can maneuver for long term without losing your voice?

Sluggo

Hi, Sluggo!

The only solution I believe that would work in order to minimize our disagreement and overboard arguments would be to just extend my patience and choose to understand her illness. If she has double standards, I’ve read in other sources that most often than not they can’t control it. You do one thing that would trigger or irks her but then given the same scenario and it happens vice versa, you can’t use it as a comparison or use it as a defense. Since she has BPD and I’m Non, our thought process will always have huge differences. For 4 years now all I’ve been questioning is why she has double standards. All she ever told me that’s why she needs a special person who’s selfless and sees the illness in an objective manner. Don’t get me wrong for a time I really believed that she uses her illness to her advantage. When I hear her talk about she seems aware of it and yet she can’t control it. I guess that’s the disorder.

I just have to wait for her to improve with the help of DBT and couples therapy.

In terms of losing my voice, that’s why I seeked help from a therapist who can guide me to better understand my girlfriend. I have a list of questions hahaha
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2022, 01:16:43 AM »

Hi there - Just joined today. Currently going through this myself and yes, this is something I really struggle with. I don't have any advice to give, but just wanted to show up here and say that you're not alone here. Looking forward to discovering more things as I go.

Welcome to the forum, Ergonomics!  Way to go! (click to insert in post) You’ve made such an amazing step for joining this community. It’s so wonderful how strangers would give you their time of day just to share their experiences and give solid advices that can improve your relationships and for you to also make time for yourself. Losing yourself in the mix is real. That was my reason why I joined this forum and to also understand my partner.

Do you also tell white lies/lie by omission to prevent arguments or for it not to escalate?
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SinisterComplex
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2022, 03:12:57 AM »

Hey, Sinister! Your advice was a bit Complex. See what I did there?  Way to go! (click to insert in post)
Kidding aside I appreciate your detailed response to my post. Thank you for making time.  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I ended up feeling hopeless at one point because either way she will have an episode and lash out. If I tell her the truth without sugarcoating anything, she thinks I'm attacking her. When I try and listen and minimize talking, she still feels like I don't listen and don't understand her.

Even with choosing a restaurant, it just came to the point that when she doesn't know where to eat, I give her 2 cuisines that's closest to her heart. I know that the cuisines I like are not her thing and she ends up pissed before, during and after dinner if I chose American or fried foods. My mitigation there would be giving her options and making her think those are my choices when in fact those are really her preferences. I'm not a picky eater so either way I got used to it.

She despises this one co-worker of mine because she feels as if that girl likes me. Even if she didn't see anything or read anything to solidify her assumptions, I just kept my distance to keep the peace. And yet, she would attend gatherings knowing her ex-boyfriend is there. They belong in the same group. She would just tell me for all the men she slept with and this one guy she entered a relationship with, they are all crap and she doesn't give any importance to them. It's all just sex and there are no emotional attachment. That's why I shouldn't be worried. But here we are, she makes a fuss about me associating myself with that colleague whom I didn't have a past with.

Glad you took the humor well. It is done by design with me. We have to keep it light because if you take life too seriously you will never make it out alive or if you are not laughing you are not living.  Smiling (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Way to go! (click to insert in post) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) But I digress...

Now to be serious...

You are experiencing very common behaviors associated with BPD from your partner. The most important thing for you to realize is that you are not alone because well you are on this board...we all get it and we have all been there. If you are interested in learning more in-depth feel free to peruse my posts or definitely check out our tools section here...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

I am purposely leaving it up to you how much information you want to take in.

Of course, I just want you to feel welcome and to continue to engage here to help you along in your journey. If you have specific questions you would like my insight on fire away. Either myself or the team are around and we do keep a watchful eye here because we are fam here...its all about lifting each other up and finding a way to succeed together.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-
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waverider
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 04:33:46 AM »

It is hard, logic and reality play no part.  She is going to have her drama regardless of what you do. If you try to agree to keep the peace you will feel like you are selling yourself out, and she will probably keep pushing until there is conflict.

All you can do is stick to your truth, dont try to sell it or convince her. Then disengage if things are going downhill. The aim is not to get sucked in as much as possible. I know this is hard because what pwBPD want more than anything is validation, which means you agreeing with what she is thinking. However, it is never enough, so if you feed this the goal just gets moved, because they also want conflict so that they can pass "blame" for something or other on to you as they also crave victimhood. As you can see 2 conflicting goals, hence you can't get stuck in that place
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PeteWitsend
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2022, 12:18:26 PM »

Just to add, b/c I struggled with this in my relationship w/a pwBPD, particularly around getting dragged down into the proverbial "mud" when they would stretch the truth to pick huge arguments and then stand their ground that whatever else, they were not "lying."

Lying isn't just overtly lying or lying by omission.  Broaden the definition here to include behaving dishonestly.

This includes other things they do, like stretching the truth, assuming their feelings are facts, assuming they know another's motivation for doing or saying something, or having an emotionally exaggerated or inconsistent reaction to something you do or don't do.

So while the advice here on this site to not JADE, and not argue ad nauseum is 100% true, I say this part so you don't trouble yourself after the fact about whether they were lying or not, like I once did.  They are being dishonest either way, even if they are technically telling the truth (or claiming they are)
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waverider
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2022, 07:30:02 AM »

Quote from: PeteWitsend


So while the advice here on this site to not JADE, and not argue ad nauseum is 100% true, I say this part so you don't trouble yourself after the fact about whether they were lying or not, like I once did.  They are being dishonest either way, even if they are technically telling the truth (or claiming they are)

The most toxic kind of lies are those that are structured around truth quotes but with twisted context. These can be both difficult to counter and to let go without reacting
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 06:25:28 PM by waverider » Logged

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PeteWitsend
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2022, 10:14:17 AM »

...
The most toxic kind of lies are those that are structured around truth quotes but with twisted context. These can be both difficult to counter and to let go without reacting

Right.  And that's where not JADEing & letting them lead you down a path comes into play.

I'd analogize it to a spider spinning a web, or someone setting a trap.  You need to recognize the signs of their behavior for what it is, and then refuse to enter into the trap. 

Don't make the mistake of assuming when they ambush you with some crazy question or get angry over whether you did or didn't do something for the reason they're claiming, you can discuss it as you would with a "normal person."  Just put your hand up, "no, not discussing this now, we can talk when you've calmed down" (or however you want to handle such things), and move on.  Let them say whatever they want, but don't help them build their "web" by thinking if you agree with something (whether it's true or not), or apologize you're going to reach a more peaceful or stable outcome. 

I fell into that trap once, earlier in my relationship with BPDxw, where we went somewhere and one of my ex-GFs was there, and one of her friends made a bit of a scene.  I didn't initially admit it was my ex-GF, b/c BPDxw was always so unhinged around the topic of exes, I figured she'd claim I picked that bar because I knew my ex would be there, along with a bunch of other nonsense, and I didn't want to "go there" so I just said they were some girls who knew me from college.

Well, when the truth eventually came out, BPDxw branded me a "liar" and said I could never be trusted, and bla bla bla, and my behavior justified her going through all my things, etc.  I eventually had to face all this down and refuse to keep going along with it, but it made a much bigger fight. 

I should've just said, yeah, my ex- was there, no I didn't know she would be there, and refuse to address any nonsense BPDxw dreamed up about what that meant, or whether she could trust me or not. 
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2022, 02:56:51 AM »

You are experiencing very common behaviors associated with BPD from your partner. The most important thing for you to realize is that you are not alone because well you are on this board...we all get it and we have all been there. If you are interested in learning more in-depth feel free to peruse my posts or definitely check out our tools section here...

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. It's one of the things I really look forward to when I express my thoughts and feelings in this forum. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me and for also shedding some light and giving me another perspective.  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Of course, I just want you to feel welcome and to continue to engage here to help you along in your journey. If you have specific questions you would like my insight on fire away. Either myself or the team are around and we do keep a watchful eye here because we are fam here...its all about lifting each other up and finding a way to succeed together.

Thank you for sharing the link. I've started reading more about it today.  Smiling (click to insert in post) Thank you again for your time, SC! Happy weekend!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2022, 03:09:00 AM »

It is hard, logic and reality play no part.  She is going to have her drama regardless of what you do. If you try to agree to keep the peace you will feel like you are selling yourself out, and she will probably keep pushing until there is conflict.

Hi, Waverider!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) Thank you for dropping by and sharing your thoughts.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

This is exactly what I am afraid of. I am having difficulty figuring out if there is really a best way to validate her feelings without selling myself out.

She even told me that one time I got so drunk, I fell asleep on her bed. I don't know how long I was already asleep but she tried waking me up because she was having an anxiety attack. She told me the next day that I was being violent with her. When she woke me up, I held her too tight and even kicked her in the stomach. I was in awe when she told me all these things because I cannot remember anything from what happened the night before.

For the many times I got drunk after a party, I just vomit or blackout (deep sleep). Even when there were times I needed to be move because I was so drunk, I did not become violent at all. So it's so hard to believe her most especially when she would accuse me of saying something I know I didn't say. We had a couples therapy session one time, and she said something that I said, our therapist just told her that I didn't say whatever she was pertaining to. That's scary, man.

All you can do is stick to your truth, dont try to sell it or convince her. Then disengage if things are going downhill. The aim is not to get sucked in as much as possible. I know this is hard because what pwBPD want more than anything is validation, which means you agreeing with what she is thinking. However, it is never enough, so if you feed this the goal just gets moved, because they also want conflict so that they can pass "blame" for something or other on to you as they also crave victimhood. As you can see 2 conflicting goals, hence you can't get stuck in that place

When I questioned what she said that was she sure that happened, she got offended and said she wasn't making it up. Another time we drank with her family, I got drunk and went up to sleep. She tried waking me up AGAIN! And she said that I "pushed" her away while I was lying down. She got so pissed because her 2 kids saw it. They are 7 and 8. My partner tends to be overly dramatic, so if that happened most likely I was just making a gesture to not wake me up.

I asked the eldest one the next day after she opened up about it, the son just told me that I didn't push her. It's just how my partner interpreted it or chose to see it. This makes me question again the first time she accused me that I hit her. I would never.

But when I acknowledged whatever it is she was telling me was like agreeing with her that I am capable of being violent. She even pegged it as domestic violence and compared me with her exes. That was the worst experience she had with someone. EVER. While at the same time she shared with me that her ex-partners would strangle her or push her against the wall, sober or not. AND THAT'S NOT ME. But I'm still seen as the worse?

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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2022, 03:15:33 AM »

particularly around getting dragged down into the proverbial "mud" when they would stretch the truth to pick huge arguments and then stand their ground that whatever else, they were not "lying."

I replied above to Waverider regarding a situation I've experienced with her forcing the truth that I hit her after waking me up when I was dead drunk. That was such a difficult pill to swallow or rather acknowledge because I am not capable of doing the things she accused me for.

So while the advice here on this site to not JADE, and not argue ad nauseum is 100% true, I say this part so you don't trouble yourself after the fact about whether they were lying or not, like I once did.  They are being dishonest either way, even if they are technically telling the truth (or claiming they are)

When things enter this point, how do you choose to be objective about the situation? When clearly it is made up or stretching the truth. Since we have to validate their feelings.
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Buddy Joe
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2022, 03:19:33 AM »

I'd analogize it to a spider spinning a web, or someone setting a trap.  You need to recognize the signs of their behavior for what it is, and then refuse to enter into the trap. 

I will keep this in mind. I have to anticipate if this conversation I will be having with her is a trap to further be in the right state of mind when dealing with the accusations.

I fell into that trap once, earlier in my relationship with BPDxw, where we went somewhere and one of my ex-GFs was there, and one of her friends made a bit of a scene.  I didn't initially admit it was my ex-GF, b/c BPDxw was always so unhinged around the topic of exes, I figured she'd claim I picked that bar because I knew my ex would be there, along with a bunch of other nonsense, and I didn't want to "go there" so I just said they were some girls who knew me from college.

Well, when the truth eventually came out, BPDxw branded me a "liar" and said I could never be trusted, and bla bla bla, and my behavior justified her going through all my things, etc.  I eventually had to face all this down and refuse to keep going along with it, but it made a much bigger fight. 

I should've just said, yeah, my ex- was there, no I didn't know she would be there, and refuse to address any nonsense BPDxw dreamed up about what that meant, or whether she could trust me or not. 

I can completely empathize with you on this. She dislikes a specific person from my company that I am teammates with. We had a training during the weekend and it was mandatory, I barely spoke to her because my girlfriend is uncomfortable when I associate myself with her. I decided not to tell her that she was there. She eventually asked if she did attend the training as well. I told her, yes. Then that's where everything escalated that I was lying by omission regardless if I was trying to avoid a fight.
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2022, 06:35:17 PM »

TBH Buddy Joe, I would advise not getting drunk around pwBPD, I gave up drink altogether, as we all lose our sensitivities and our fuses can be shorter than normal with a couple of drinks, it is too easily to lay down triggers and then respond in a less than ideal way. Its just too big a minefield and you need your wits about you at all times
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2022, 01:58:21 AM »

TBH Buddy Joe, I would advise not getting drunk around pwBPD, I gave up drink altogether, as we all lose our sensitivities and our fuses can be shorter than normal with a couple of drinks, it is too easily to lay down triggers and then respond in a less than ideal way. Its just too big a minefield and you need your wits about you at all times

I will take this advice of yours. You're right that it's best if I don't drink when I'm with my pwBPD. It's just incredibly sad because we used to have so much fun at the start. Only when things got deeper and our relationship got longer was the time we had multiple issues already. And that shows when either of us gets drunk, since we release all inhibitions. "In vino veritas."  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)
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Sluggo
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced 4 yrs/ separated 6 / Married 18 yrs
Posts: 596



« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2022, 06:29:40 PM »

Excerpt
, I would advise not getting drunk around pwBPD, I gave up drink altogether, as we all lose our sensitivities and our fuses can be shorter than normal with a couple of drinks, it is too easily to lay down triggers and then respond in a less than ideal way.

Agree with waverider on the short fuse and also possible accusations that can result from having alcohol in the house.  When my ex-wife tried to accuse me of something and present it to my children that I was an alcoholic I threw every ounce of liquor away at our house.  I was not going to be accused or put myself in a vulnerable situation. I am glad I did that as she called the police several times and are married if I had been drinking that would have been a mess. 

Sluggo
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Buddy Joe
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What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Living together
Posts: 68


« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2022, 09:52:46 PM »

I was not going to be accused or put myself in a vulnerable situation. I am glad I did that as she called the police several times and are married if I had been drinking that would have been a mess. 

I have utmost respect for you for just quitting it altogether. This is something I haven't done. There shouldn't be alcohol in the house. If she can't quit it then I'd rather not be around. I've picked her up twice already from a night out wherein she brought her car and got so drunk, incapable of driving. I booked a cab going to her in wee hours of the night to pick her up and drive her car home.  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) But I never got mad at her for that, I'm sure she didn't want to get drunk as well.
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