Rejecting Guilt as I set Boundaries

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I have been experiencing guilt the last few days, as once again, I have forged new boundaries. I am trying to “reject” my guilt as I know that I really shouldn’t feel guilty.  So why do I?

My sister wBPD with whom I share Co-mTrustee duties with has been uncooperative and highly manipulative recently; it’s worse than ever with no end in sight. She wants to be included in decision making but she refuses to agree to anything, even the most basic things or she agrees, and then changes her mind and says she didn’t give me permission to do X or she won’t give permission to let my mother continue to live where she lives. The last 5 months after I hired an attorney to protect myself and my mother have been constant raging distorted emails and text rants, most of which I don’t respond to. I have needed to stay engaged at some level to get her to cooperate and sign some essential trust documents as Co-Trustee. But I am setting boundaries in a way I haven’t previously and it seems like she is in a continuous extinction burst that won’t settle.

I realize that much of my guilt comes from my early FOO socialization in which I was taught to take care of and protect my little sister, and to keep her happy. I was expected to be responsible and grown up while she was spoiled and my parents always sought to keep her happy. So when I violate that internal standard, and she rages against me, I sometimes start to believe what she says, even though my rational brain knows otherwise.  I have been forgiving and extremely kind to her in the face of toxic and frequent verbal abuse. It’s not OK. 

When I was on vacation, I decided not to answer her texts and emails unless they were positive. It took a while but at a certain point she became supercilious and conciliatory, so I re-enraged only to be manipulated with lies again. The trust attorney who wrote the trust documents got ensnared in it as my sister manipulated both of us until we compared notes. Ultimately I decided to minimally engage with her until she returned the signed documents. She signed them but then refused to send them, then she said she would send them but didn’t, when I asked where they were she said she was sending them and then she didn’t. She keeps wanting to have trustee meetings to talk about how we will collaborate but refused to do the one thing I can’t do without her which is return the signed documents.

It’s hard to take all the toxic negativity without beginning to believe it, to not second guess myself and think I am the bad/ mean manipulative one, when I set and enforce boundaries. She is a master at saying things that reinforce my guilty conscience. When I’m say no or put reasonable boundaries or conditions to her requests, even when I see them for what they are manipulative and unreasonable, I still feel guilty and like I am not living up to my parents expectations. When I don’t allow her to manipulate me and I push back, I feel guilty. 

I am proud of myself for standing up to her, for seeing her and for enduring what it takes to protect my mother. I want desperately to go no contact, but I can’t.  So I have to endure this, survive it, live through it and remain strong in my values. I don’t fear her, I don’t feel any obligation to her, it’s just the guilt. I have to endure it, recognize it and reject It. It comes from me and my internal maps. My husband thinks it is laughable and highly flawed, but he gets that it is part of who I am and also a part of me I am trying to let go of. Yesterday, my mom told me three simple things: stop trying to make other people happy, stop trying so hard and most importantly,  take care of yourself. Even with her dementia and limited ability to communicate she still knows what I need to hear.

My constant boundary of “ yes I want to work with you, but you need to work with me, so, do the one thing that needs to be done and sign and return the signed documents” finally worked. For context, she received the documents( simple update to trust reflecting my fathers death ,which we had missed) in May, and she refused to sign them. Since they were delinquent already, I finally gave her a deadline of 9/15 to return them and then later agreed to an extension to 9/30. On 9/28, she asked to set up a meeting to discuss our roles, and I said, after you send the documents. Her response, “I will send them tomorrow”.   On Wednesday, 10/5, she told me she might be coming in town on Saturday( yesterday) but she wasn’t sure. I started feeling the dread. Then on Friday, she confirmed she was coming and wanted to meet. No mentions of the documents. I reached out to see if the attorney had received the documents and she had not so I told her we would need to wait to meet until the attorney confirmed signed document receipt. Her response was “BTW, I sent the documents”.  I got text bombed all day: “I don’t believe you when you say will work with me”, “why does the attorney think we have conflict, what did you tell her”, “ you are hiding behind the lawyers and the mail” and more.  Later on Friday, the trust attorney let me know that she had received the documents via an overnight fed ex delivery.  She sent the documents so I should feel like this is an important positive milestone but I don’t. I feel like it has been a costly, emotional and financial journey that makes no logical sense.

So after the lawyer reached out, I texted her that I would meet her as requested at 5 pm on Saturday at my moms as she had originally suggested, but I had dinner plans. She didn’t respond until after she arrived, at which point she said she was running late and she knew I had dinner plans. I said no worries and said let’s figure out a time tomorrow. This morning she simply texted that she was going to my mom’s this morning, I offered that this morning would be best for meeting as I am helping my son move, offering to meet before she went up before she went. Then she told me she was already there so I said I would meet her after church services, between 11-12. I was just about to go, at 11:20 am, when she texted me,  “I left for a couple hours.” I immediately answered do you want to meet up somewhere now. No answer. I waited for an hour and she finally answers “no, I have lunch plans, and I will be back at 1:30” . We had already left to help my son. I don’t intend to adjust my schedule for her any further

She knows I committed to help my son today. I was talking with my husband and feeling frustrated and trying to justify blowing her off at his point, when I realized the ridiculous dance, that I just participated and how I fell for all of it. She really doesn’t want to see me, she just wants to say she tried and wants to blame me for it not happening. In retrospect, she has been planning this trip for moths as she previously told my housekeeper she was coming on 10/8 before going to a conference for work. I am not going to make myself available the rest of today.

[Mommydoc]

I have been experiencing guilt the last few days, as once again, I have forged new boundaries. I am trying to “reject” my guilt as I know that I really shouldn’t feel guilty.  So why do I?

My sister wBPD with whom I share Co-mTrustee duties with has been uncooperative and highly manipulative recently; it’s worse than ever with no end in sight. She wants to be included in decision making but she refuses to agree to anything, even the most basic things or she agrees, and then changes her mind and says she didn’t give me permission to do X or she won’t give permission to let my mother continue to live where she lives. The last 5 months after I hired an attorney to protect myself and my mother have been constant raging distorted emails and text rants, most of which I don’t respond to. I have needed to stay engaged at some level to get her to cooperate and sign some essential trust documents as Co-Trustee. But I am setting boundaries in a way I haven’t previously and it seems like she is in a continuous extinction burst that won’t settle.

I realize that much of my guilt comes from my early FOO socialization in which I was taught to take care of and protect my little sister, and to keep her happy. I was expected to be responsible and grown up while she was spoiled and my parents always sought to keep her happy. So when I violate that internal standard, and she rages against me, I sometimes start to believe what she says, even though my rational brain knows otherwise.  I have been forgiving and extremely kind to her in the face of toxic and frequent verbal abuse. It’s not OK. 

When I was on vacation, I decided not to answer her texts and emails unless they were positive. It took a while but at a certain point she became supercilious and conciliatory, so I re-enraged only to be manipulated with lies again. The trust attorney who wrote the trust documents got ensnared in it as my sister manipulated both of us until we compared notes. Ultimately I decided to minimally engage with her until she returned the signed documents. She signed them but then refused to send them, then she said she would send them but didn’t, when I asked where they were she said she was sending them and then she didn’t. She keeps wanting to have trustee meetings to talk about how we will collaborate but refused to do the one thing I can’t do without her which is return the signed documents.

It’s hard to take all the toxic negativity without beginning to believe it, to not second guess myself and think I am the bad/ mean manipulative one, when I set and enforce boundaries. She is a master at saying things that reinforce my guilty conscience. When I’m say no or put reasonable boundaries or conditions to her requests, even when I see them for what they are manipulative and unreasonable, I still feel guilty and like I am not living up to my parents expectations. When I don’t allow her to manipulate me and I push back, I feel guilty. 

I am proud of myself for standing up to her, for seeing her and for enduring what it takes to protect my mother. I want desperately to go no contact, but I can’t.  So I have to endure this, survive it, live through it and remain strong in my values. I don’t fear her, I don’t feel any obligation to her, it’s just the guilt. I have to endure it, recognize it and reject It. It comes from me and my internal maps. My husband thinks it is laughable and highly flawed, but he gets that it is part of who I am and also a part of me I am trying to let go of. Yesterday, my mom told me three simple things: stop trying to make other people happy, stop trying so hard and most importantly,  take care of yourself. Even with her dementia and limited ability to communicate she still knows what I need to hear.

My constant boundary of “ yes I want to work with you, but you need to work with me, so, do the one thing that needs to be done and sign and return the signed documents” finally worked. For context, she received the documents( simple update to trust reflecting my fathers death ,which we had missed) in May, and she refused to sign them. Since they were delinquent already, I finally gave her a deadline of 9/15 to return them and then later agreed to an extension to 9/30. On 9/28, she asked to set up a meeting to discuss our roles, and I said, after you send the documents. Her response, “I will send them tomorrow”.   On Wednesday, 10/5, she told me she might be coming in town on Saturday( yesterday) but she wasn’t sure. I started feeling the dread. Then on Friday, she confirmed she was coming and wanted to meet. No mentions of the documents. I reached out to see if the attorney had received the documents and she had not so I told her we would need to wait to meet until the attorney confirmed signed document receipt. Her response was “BTW, I sent the documents”.  I got text bombed all day: “I don’t believe you when you say will work with me”, “why does the attorney think we have conflict, what did you tell her”, “ you are hiding behind the lawyers and the mail” and more.  Later on Friday, the trust attorney let me know that she had received the documents via an overnight fed ex delivery.  She sent the documents so I should feel like this is an important positive milestone but I don’t. I feel like it has been a costly, emotional and financial journey that makes no logical sense.

So after the lawyer reached out, I texted her that I would meet her as requested at 5 pm on Saturday at my moms as she had originally suggested, but I had dinner plans. She didn’t respond until after she arrived, at which point she said she was running late and she knew I had dinner plans. I said no worries and said let’s figure out a time tomorrow. This morning she simply texted that she was going to my mom’s this morning, I offered that this morning would be best for meeting as I am helping my son move, offering to meet before she went up before she went. Then she told me she was already there so I said I would meet her after church services, between 11-12. I was just about to go, at 11:20 am, when she texted me,  “I left for a couple hours.” I immediately answered do you want to meet up somewhere now. No answer. I waited for an hour and she finally answers “no, I have lunch plans, and I will be back at 1:30” . We had already left to help my son. I don’t intend to adjust my schedule for her any further

She knows I committed to help my son today. I was talking with my husband and feeling frustrated and trying to justify blowing her off at his point, when I realized the ridiculous dance, that I just participated and how I fell for all of it. She really doesn’t want to see me, she just wants to say she tried and wants to blame me for it not happening. In retrospect, she has been planning this trip for moths as she previously told my housekeeper she was coming on 10/8 before going to a conference for work. I am not going to make myself available the rest of today.

[zachira]

I am having a hard time finding the words to respond to you. As I read all your sister is putting you through, I can't help but think that underneath all the guilt you are feeling perhaps you are feeling really sad about the loss of your sister and how badly she is treating you. Sometimes it can help to identify the underlying feelings beneath a feeling that is overwhelming in the moment. I finally got to the point with my own sister in that it came down to my sister's attorney dealing with my attorney, and I had no contact with her. My sister repeatedly sent letters through her attorney and I did not respond to any of them. You are the only one who knows what makes sense in terms of the level and kinds of contact you decide to have with your sister. It must be very difficult because your mother is still living, and probably the last thing you want is to see your mother upset because you and your sister are not getting along, though you have made every effort to be fair to your sister.
'

[livednlearned]

Mommydoc, you've been raised to do the right thing with the wrong person.

Your sister has been working to keep you in a one-down position your whole life, using the code your parents passed on against you, to keep you in a headlock.

I found the book In Sheep's Clothing to be the only resource that really helped me reset the narrative and see more fully what's happening with people who are covertly aggressive. In particular, it helped me reframe the behaviors of my stepdaughter as ruthless.

Your sister's primary motive may not be money, or what's best for your mom, or wanting a collaborative, cooperative relationships with you. It might just be that she wants to dominate you. Full stop.

The guiltier you feel, the easier it is for her to dominate you.

My stepdaughter exploited my guilt. Once I realized that, I looked at my guilt as a vulnerability she was exploiting.

It doesn't mean I don't feel it, but I'm learning to invert what it means when she's involved.

I remember a line in the book along the lines of, "aggressive people are always looking for an excuse to go to war."

Guilt is like giving your opponent a document of all your weaknesses 

[Notwendy]

Mommydoc, I can relate to your feelings. I also was raised with the expectation to please my mother. At one point, I think there was also an expectation that I'd take charge of her care after my father passed away and I wanted to help. Trying to "help" during his illness changed that on my part. Like your sister, my BPD mother refused to cooperate with me and became even more verbally and emotionally abusive when I tried to help.

It's as if trying to pin her down on anything is like trying to grab a greased piglet. She wriggles out of every possible commitment- even if the attempt is to help her. She will ask us to come help her get her financial papers in order, but if we try, she won't answer questions, won't allow us to have even basic information that we might need to help her. If you ask her a question, she either gets angry, won't answer, or lies.

I am sure you are familiar with "oppositional defiant disorder" and while I don't think my mother actually has this, it seems she's more like the toddler who says no to everything as a way to maintain control. Like your sister, I don't think the motivation is to be hurtful, I think the main goal is control. Toddlers have tantrums but they don't have the same rights as adults. My BPD mother is a legal adult who can act like a toddler, and it seems your sister can too.

It's almost impossible to get my mother to commit to a scheduled event. She even refused at the last minute to attend a get together for her that I arranged and she was the guest of honor. She eventually agreed to attend, but by that time, I was so demoralized. She just can't help herself.

She says she wants to live closer to me. That has been discussed and it's not an option. I can't help her as she won't let me and it's an abusive situation. My friends have done this with their parents but it's been a mutually cooperative situation- like you have with your mother. What mine wants is to be in total control and for people to obey her without saying anything back. She is uncooperative with her health care team too. She doesn't cooperate with anyone.  It's impossible to work cooperatively with this situation.

Yet, there's guilt. She's elderly, has some health needs, and she's alone. In an ideal situation, if she could think rationally, she could sell her house ( if there's anything left in it after the home equity loan) and combined with her income, be situated in continuing care community where she'd have social interactions, meals, health care.

But she's disordered, uncooperative, and would not cooperate with the staff no matter where she is, and she's unhappy and there's nothing anyone can do about it because she remains in charge no matter what.

It's control. Your sister is willing to destroy her relationship with you because of her need to be in control.

[Mommydoc]

Somehow the ridiculousness of this last week has helped dissipate the guilt. I am trying to think of my guilt as an article of clothing that doesn’t fit me anymore; I can give it away or throw it away recognizing it may have served a purpose but no longer is serving me. Helping my son move, spending time with his roommate and girlfriend was hot and tiring,  but also fun and the perfect distraction. We never connected… and I stopped trying after my post. A few more cryptic posts from her came in, letting me know she was available again, but I said I was busy helping my son. She should be on a plane as we speak. 

I remember a line in the book along the lines of, "aggressive people are always looking for an excuse to go to war."

I need to read this book, as I think this nails my sister’s personality. I didn’t really see it when we were younger, but recall at my wedding being shocked when we were unhappy about a minor thing at the hotel and I said it wasn’t a big deal, but she said, “watch me take care of it”; she went up to the front desk and started slowly raising her voice. She told me “never call to complain, always go down to the front desk and raise your voice, as they don’t want other customers to witness someone upset”. It was a stupid thing but it was about her asserting herself and getting what she wanted in that moment, it had nothing to do with my needs as the bride.

My mother always says her strength is “negotiating”, but now having witnessed  her interactions with my BPD lens awareness,  I realize  she is constantly trying to exploit other peoples vulnerability or weaknesses. I have seen it with the property managers nd my moms’ health care team, an the facility team. She is always trying to “catch people” and makes little things into big things, all the while trying to be charming, and in the spot light.

She has this thing with relatives and my parents family friends that she wants to be the “communicator”… I am pretty passive and let her play that role, it seems to serve everyone well. Interestingly, she has somehow latched on to one of my neighbors ( who used to live next door to and were very close to my parents when they lived down the street). He texted me yesterday to let me know she was pressuring them to come visit yesterday and he felt uncomfortable. She had actually told my housekeeper that she should keep me from talking to him because she had a closer relationship with him. LOL, she has met him once or twice. Poor guy.

Thanks for your insights Zachira. I really considered the idea that maybe the underlying feeling was one of hurt or sadness. I don’t think so… I think I have come to expect this behavior from her, I was mostly angry at myself that she successfully manipulated me. 

you've been raised to do the right thing with the wrong person.

LNL comment struck me. I feel trapped by my legal role and Told my husband, if he treated me like this I would divorce him, if a friend treated me like this, I would walk away. I just can’t and so am do have some resentment towards my parents for the way they set things up, but at the same time, I don’t think any of us could have foreseen how this has all played out., so I can be frustrated about it, but cant really blame them.

NW, it is simply about control. And with your mother and my sister, realistically they have chosen control over the relationship. They will never be satisfied unfortunately. Honestly, I don’t feel like there is any relationship with my sister left, and I am not even sad about it. I am sad that I don’t have a clear sense of when I will get to walk away completely.

[Notwendy]

Told my husband, if he treated me like this I would divorce him, if a friend treated me like this, I would walk away. I just can’t and so am do have some resentment towards my parents for the way they set things up, but at the same time, I don’t think any of us could have foreseen how this has all played out., so I can be frustrated about it, but cant really blame them.

NW, it is simply about control. And with your mother and my sister, realistically they have chosen control over the relationship. They will never be satisfied unfortunately. Honestly, I don’t feel like there is any relationship with my sister left.


I understand. When my father passed away, I had the chance to walk away as BPD mother had (temporarily) disowned me. I didn't because, for me, I didn't feel it was OK to discard the relationship, even when she apparently felt she could.

While I don't want  a close relationship with my mother, when her nurse coordinator calls me and reports any issues she may have, I find myself getting teary. I don't like that she's alone like that. But it's due to her own doing and she treats me cruelly when I visit. I don't know how she feels about me or if she feels any affection at all. I know she'd prefer I do her bidding but she doesn't seem to be concerned about what the consequences of her behavior are to anyone else.

I think it comes down to our values, not their investment or non investment in the relationship. I you don't feel it's OK to walk away from it, then it is what it is. But this has to also consider our relationship to ourselves. While I don't feel it is OK to not have any relationship with my mother, I also don't think it's OK to allow her to be abusive to me and so I have to take steps to not allow this to happen.