Has your final discard been different than previous ones?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi!
I was wondering if your final discard was different than previous discards in your r/s with BPDs. Mine was.

So all the first discards (I can't even tell how many of them there was over almost 2 years of r/s) were accompanied by terrible anger, name calling, blame etc. He would either: pack his stuff and left, pack his stuff and then tried to talk, pack his stuff but I would stop him. Sometimes he would let me stop him, sometimes he would leave anyway but then next day when I called him he would come back (to be honest I felt so embarrassed in my neighbourhood because for sure they must of seen him coming in and out with all his stuff so many times ...also with his huge screen TV <facepalm>).
Usually when he was coming back I had to first apologise him for I dont know what really... usually for "provoking him to call me names and fight with me". When I apologised first then he would also apologise.
There was one discard when I left him in peace for over a week. Then I called him to ask when he is gonna take his stuff from my house (we have had a fight being abroad and he left to stay with his family while I stayed with mine and I have called him day before coming back home). He answered the phone being so nice and polite, asking how my family was (after fighting with my mom, telling her it's her fault we have broken up), being "glad to hear me" etc. Obviously we ended up being together again after coming back home.

Last discard was different tho. He was very upset and I could see how stressed he is but he remained calm towards me. He was acting quite politely, trying to be fair. And when he was leaving I didn't hear "f*** off", or "f*** you" as usual but "bye then, you take care of yourself". It was really, really odd seeing him rather depressed than angry.
Day after he left we have had our last "proper" conversation which turned into a blame game which apparently he didn't want but I have provoked him to that (obviously!) and he was saying odd things. First he was trying to blame me for our last fight (but not in a very bad way) when I didn't take this (because it wasn't how it really was) he started the blame game also talking about stuff that happened ages ago, making some stupid comments about me etc. I said I want to finish this conversation and asked him when is he gonna collect some belongings he left behind, he then would continue with "I had to change my entire life just like that" I said "it was your decision" he replied "you didn't protest" etc he said he cant imagine life with me and we don't match and he was a slave in my house (ridiculous). I was only.replying with "when are you gonna come to get the rest of your stuff?" (I have asked this question about 15 times as he wouldn't stop texting about being a victim in this whole r/s). He would then change the direction again and say things like "if you would try to talk to me, we could work it out but you didn't care!" Etc.
When I now think about it, it seems that he tried to recycle me just straight after the discard but I didn't let him. And this is really making me feel better about myself and the entire situation. I thought "maybe it's my ego" but now I think "no! It was me fighting for myself".

How about your discards? Was there always the same pattern? Did you feel relief when you realised it's the final one?

[imstillhere89]

Hi!
I was wondering if your final discard was different than previous discards in your r/s with BPDs. Mine was.

So all the first discards (I can't even tell how many of them there was over almost 2 years of r/s) were accompanied by terrible anger, name calling, blame etc. He would either: pack his stuff and left, pack his stuff and then tried to talk, pack his stuff but I would stop him. Sometimes he would let me stop him, sometimes he would leave anyway but then next day when I called him he would come back (to be honest I felt so embarrassed in my neighbourhood because for sure they must of seen him coming in and out with all his stuff so many times ...also with his huge screen TV <facepalm>).
Usually when he was coming back I had to first apologise him for I dont know what really... usually for "provoking him to call me names and fight with me". When I apologised first then he would also apologise.
There was one discard when I left him in peace for over a week. Then I called him to ask when he is gonna take his stuff from my house (we have had a fight being abroad and he left to stay with his family while I stayed with mine and I have called him day before coming back home). He answered the phone being so nice and polite, asking how my family was (after fighting with my mom, telling her it's her fault we have broken up), being "glad to hear me" etc. Obviously we ended up being together again after coming back home.

Last discard was different tho. He was very upset and I could see how stressed he is but he remained calm towards me. He was acting quite politely, trying to be fair. And when he was leaving I didn't hear "f*** off", or "f*** you" as usual but "bye then, you take care of yourself". It was really, really odd seeing him rather depressed than angry.
Day after he left we have had our last "proper" conversation which turned into a blame game which apparently he didn't want but I have provoked him to that (obviously!) and he was saying odd things. First he was trying to blame me for our last fight (but not in a very bad way) when I didn't take this (because it wasn't how it really was) he started the blame game also talking about stuff that happened ages ago, making some stupid comments about me etc. I said I want to finish this conversation and asked him when is he gonna collect some belongings he left behind, he then would continue with "I had to change my entire life just like that" I said "it was your decision" he replied "you didn't protest" etc he said he cant imagine life with me and we don't match and he was a slave in my house (ridiculous). I was only.replying with "when are you gonna come to get the rest of your stuff?" (I have asked this question about 15 times as he wouldn't stop texting about being a victim in this whole r/s). He would then change the direction again and say things like "if you would try to talk to me, we could work it out but you didn't care!" Etc.
When I now think about it, it seems that he tried to recycle me just straight after the discard but I didn't let him. And this is really making me feel better about myself and the entire situation. I thought "maybe it's my ego" but now I think "no! It was me fighting for myself".

How about your discards? Was there always the same pattern? Did you feel relief when you realised it's the final one?

[succinite]

Yes!  

I have to chuckle a little when I read that he "moved out" with his big television in the most dramatic way possible. For us it was always the XBOX. When she packed the XBOX, I knew there would be trouble again.
Or hanging up and taking down photos like crazy.

I think one "rule" is, the more shame they accumulate during a discard episode, the more likely they are to come back. The more violent the argument, the more shame the more likely they are to come back.

I once distinguished that my ex basically had like three personalities or at least personality states. The loser, the lover and the narcissist.
They usually respond to a devaluation episode with massive self-blame aka their loser personality. This one again seeks reconciliation by arousing pity or guilt. Sometimes with threats of suicide or large-scale apologies (engagement proposals at the most inopportune moments etc.) If you accept it, there will be a smooth transition from loser to lover. And after shorter and shorter episodes from lover to narcissist once they are too sure of you.

I think the recycling would go on forever and as a result, even if you've been dumped by them, you're eventually in a position to pull through with that breakup.
At the moment they realize you saw through them, they just skip the lover phase and behave narcissistic towards you. They then just apply the loser scam to someone else who is already sitting on the substitutes' bench.

A final final devaluation will never happen insofar as it is ALWAYS more practical to have someone in reserve for the future in case the next white knight can no longer be manipulated by the loser scam.

For me personally, I knew it was over when:

- I made an effort to have her pick up her belongings.
- I tried to get us to give each other's door keys.
- I stopped responding when she wrote me some weird trivial sh*t weekly.
- I blocked her number and told her I couldn't continue the contact.
- I broke up with the part of our circle of friends, which she used constantly to reach out.
- I pretended not to see her on the street in front of my appartement, because I know full well that otherwise round 3 will follow in this crazy game.

[succinite]

He was very upset and I could see how stressed he is but he remained calm towards me. He was acting quite politely, trying to be fair. And when he was leaving I didn't hear "f*** off", or "f*** you" as usual but "bye then, you take care of yourself". It was really, really odd seeing him rather depressed than angry.


In your case, he broke up with you in narcissist mode: it was all your fault, you provoked him in the first place, bla bla. In narcissist mode the can appear very calm because they feel superior.
When that didn't lead to the desired goal (you buckling again), he went loser mode.

"if you would try to talk to me, we could work it out but you didn't care!" aka "I will always be abandoned", "poor me". They used to blackmail you by committing suicide, but now they know it's not getting them anywhere. They are at their wits end.
This to me was a hidden recycling attempt. When neither works, they usually withdraw, completely traumatized by the fact that their manipulations no longer work. This is what we call "the final discard". But I don't think it's final.
From time to time there will be to be hidden attempts and pings in which you will be approached by loser personality or narcissist personality.


In response to your question:
Mine went full narcissist at first. "It was all your fault!", "You always try to control me", "you always look for arguments", "you provoke me 24/7", "you demand too much".
Then on the narcissist-loser spectrum, she slowly slipped more and more towards the loser:
- "Why do you always have to be so damn persistent? I tried to talk to you but you never want to listen."
- "I've made mistakes myself but not as much as you."
- "I cried all night thinking about you. It hurts so much."
- "I made the biggest mistake of my life. I'm a terrible person. You're the love of my life and I was wrong."
And then when I changed my behaviour and didn't allow her to manipulate me back in she went back to full narcissist: "F*ck off. I was just being drunk." "You're seeing everything in black and white", "I never wanted to marry you anyway"  

[Tupla Sport]

In your case, he broke up with you in narcissist mode: it was all your fault, you provoked him in the first place, bla bla. In narcissist mode the can appear very calm because they feel superior.
When that didn't lead to the desired goal (you buckling again), he went loser mode.

This narc mode is what rattled me about my final breakup. She seemed so calm, content and even empathetic. She said the reason she had come to the conclusion was that we were simply unhappy together. Not a hint of a mention of her BPD antics ruining both of our lives. I still feel weird about her wording, over a month later.

It got weirder and sort of made more sense on the other hand when I learnt she was seeing my friend during our ill-defined break. She was super elated to latch on to someone new and her initial breakup cue was very casual. "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to contact you about it."

[imstillhere89]

Succinate, everything you say makes so much sense! This is how it worked with us during our breakups. If his "acting like a victim" didn't work, he tried to get me back by force, if that didn't work he would try to convince me how wonderful we have been and could be together, then if that didn't work he would use threats towards me (never suicide threats).


 "F*ck off. I was just being drunk." "You're seeing everything in black and white", "I never wanted to marry you anyway"  

Oh so you were the one seeing everything in black and white? Lol

In our last messages after the final discard he said a lot but the funniest thing was "somebody having anger issues supposed to do something about it" ..of course he meant me! I just laughed!

[succinite]

This narc mode is what rattled me about my final breakup. She seemed so calm, content and even empathetic. She said the reason she had come to the conclusion was that we were simply unhappy together. Not a hint of a mention of her BPD antics ruining both of our lives. I still feel weird about her wording, over a month later.

It got weirder and sort of made more sense on the other hand when I learnt she was seeing my friend during our ill-defined break. She was super elated to latch on to someone new and her initial breakup cue was very casual. "Oh yeah, I've been meaning to contact you about it."

Yes because you've tolerated their emotional outbursts, clingyness for months, years and then they turn tables and make it seem like you are the emotionally unstable one. But you aren't. She's just applying the same old pattern to a new person and you're in the spares store.

I also know this casual behavior. It was the reason I cut off all contact even though I miss her. After 2 years of on-off relationship, I can't handle "Hey hey, what's up?" messages.
While they may make it seem like it's normal, it's completely abnormal to pretend everything is easygoing after such an emotionally turbulent relationship and after a break up in general.

Succinate, everything you say makes so much sense! This is how it worked with us during our breakups. If his "acting like a victim" didn't work, he tried to get me back by force, if that didn't work he would try to convince me how wonderful we have been and could be together, then if that didn't work he would use threats towards me (never suicide threats).

Oh so you were the one seeing everything in black and white? Lol

In our last messages after the final discard he said a lot but the funniest thing was "somebody having anger issues supposed to do something about it" ..of course he meant me! I just laughed!

Exactly. I'm seeing everything in black and white because I said I can't just form a friendship after 2 years of on-off drama. She - she told me quite calmly - is willing to take a middle path and not lose me completely. She doesn't want to just cut me out of her life, but the relationship has been toxic (no sh*t!).
When I said that I didn't want to lose her either, but that after what felt like 10 breakups, we should finally realize that a friendship between us has always led back to the relationship, she said "It would be different this time... I' ve met a new social worker, you know" (I am one...).   As if she only dated me because I'm a social worker. WTF

When I said that it doesn't work that way, that I don't want to hear her stories about her dating escapades with other women and I finally needed final clarity about whether we're a couple or not in order to calm down and move on, I was accused of thinking in black and white. Because I either see us as a couple or as nothing at all.  

Hahaha, yeah right, you can't regulate your emotions. Funny how they want to see symptoms of borderline in everyone else but never in themselves.

[imstillhere89]

Yes because you've tolerated their emotional outbursts, clingyness for months, years and then they turn tables and make it seem like you are the emotionally unstable one. But you aren't. She's just applying the same old pattern to a new person and you're in the spares store.

I also know this casual behavior. It was the reason I cut off all contact even though I miss her. After 2 years of on-off relationship, I can't handle "Hey hey, what's up?" messages.
While they may make it seem like it's normal, it's completely abnormal to pretend everything is easygoing after such an emotionally turbulent relationship and after a break up in general.

Exactly. I'm seeing everything in black and white because I said I can't just form a friendship after 2 years of on-off drama. She - she told me quite calmly - is willing to take a middle path and not lose me completely. She doesn't want to just cut me out of her life, but the relationship has been toxic (no sh*t!).
When I said that I didn't want to lose her either, but that after what felt like 10 breakups, we should finally realize that a friendship between us has always led back to the relationship, she said "It would be different this time... I' ve met a new social worker, you know" (I am one...).  As if she only dated me because I'm a social worker. WTF

When I said that it doesn't work that way, that I don't want to hear her stories about her dating escapades with other women and I finally needed final clarity about whether we're a couple or not in order to calm down and move on, I was accused of thinking in black and white. Because I either see us as a couple or as nothing at all. 

Hahaha, yeah right, you can't regulate your emotions. Funny how they want to see symptoms of borderline in everyone else but never in themselves.

Sounds so familiar...
First thing I have noticed about him (before he started his true shi*show) was thinking black&white. About basically everything in his life (relationships, other people, politics, religion etc). In the beginning of our r/s he would admit there is something wrong with him and he needs help..he even started counselling but quit after 3 meetings... funny because after his 1 session I have asked how did it go and he said: "it was really good. In the beginning of the meeting I told him (T) that there was nothing wrong in my childhood, I had quite normal life and the reason why I am seeking help is because I have got anger issues and I make decisions up on my emotions which I regret later"
That actually makes me think now if there is a possibility he knew there is something really wrong with him and he didn't want T to find out...
Later on in our fights he stopped saying that he is the one with problem. Then I was the one with problem and I needed help. I was the unstable one. And at some point he was right. Cos his behaviour made me really unstable. I don't think he ever realised it was caused by him. And there are things I regret now. Maybe if I behaved differently...

My ex would never try to get in touch with me if he would be even talking to someone else. We have never been separated long enough to make some other connections. He was always back the next day or max few days later and he was always really depressed when we were arguing. And so happy when I apologised enough for him to come back <facepalm>.
But the fact that he was faithful to me gives me hope that if he now is with somebody else or will be anytime soon - he won't bother me anymore. Because I'm not ready for any contact. If he would now beg me to come back there is a high chance that I would break, even tho I know that would be equal to another heartbreak and another brainwash plus high possibility of losing my friends and family (as I don't think they would ever understand and forgive me if I went back after helping me to crawl back up from the deepest hole I ever fell into)