Setting limits with my BPD mother

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi guys, I joined a long time ago but never posted, and it's now time to ask for some advice. I am so relieved this forum exists, thanks all for being here. Just by signing up to BPD Australia I got on a list to be a part of 12 week programme (Family Connections) to support family members of those with BPD.  It was so helpful, learning validation skills and understanding things better. However even though it was only a few years ago I seem to have forgotten a lot of the skills and need to brush up. I've read walking on eggshells many years ago and have just ordered the Essential Family Guide and Understanding the Borderline Mother so I have some great reading ahead

Mum has actually been amazing for the last few years, she has been receiving some excellent counselling (I can tell by her behaviour, not because she tells me) and even though it's all hush hush and she doesn't really talk about it I'm sure she is getting DBT as I can hear the phrases her therapist is feeding her as they are very kind, healthy, balanced phrases she wouldn't normally use.

So my sister and I were lulled into a false sense of security and then last year I'm not sure what the trigger was, something to do with lockdown, lack of being able to see her therapist and turning 70 and she was back to the terrible anger, outbursts and unpredictability and attacking anyone close to her or close to us.

I have had times of being able to be there to support her mostly over the phone when she calls looking for a listening ear. But last week she came to a special event for grandparents day at the kids school and had a lovely time and then a few days later called me enraged about how angry she was with me. The attacks were very personal and hurtful so I couldn't listen to them and hung up on her. A few days later I tried to call her to see if she was ok and she was still raging so again I hung up. I want to avoid her when she's like that as even though she feels better once she's vented, I am broken. She has no idea the damage it does to our relationship. It also makes me cranky and stressed and I need to be fit to be a good parent/partner and just happy in myself. I also don't want to be absent/hardhearted towards her, I love her, I just don't want to be abused anymore.

I am looking at going to family therapy with my sister and mum (she has agreed to talk the three of us) and hope that a facilitator will help us create some boundaries. I can see it crushing my sister too who has taken on a lot of the role of listening to her over the last few years while I needed a bit of a break from it.

So I'm wondering how to let her know I love her but without taking any abuse, because I'm very close to cutting her off (only because I feel so vulnerable), which I don't want to do as I've always wanted her to be involved with the grandkids but she has now crossed a line by agreeing to a sleepover and then taking it away and I won't let her play games with them. She also threatened to say something nasty to them, I hung up before I could hear what it was, but I now don't think I trust her with the sleepover.

Any advice/thoughts appreciated x

[Rhubarb]

Hi guys, I joined a long time ago but never posted, and it's now time to ask for some advice. I am so relieved this forum exists, thanks all for being here. Just by signing up to BPD Australia I got on a list to be a part of 12 week programme (Family Connections) to support family members of those with BPD.  It was so helpful, learning validation skills and understanding things better. However even though it was only a few years ago I seem to have forgotten a lot of the skills and need to brush up. I've read walking on eggshells many years ago and have just ordered the Essential Family Guide and Understanding the Borderline Mother so I have some great reading ahead

Mum has actually been amazing for the last few years, she has been receiving some excellent counselling (I can tell by her behaviour, not because she tells me) and even though it's all hush hush and she doesn't really talk about it I'm sure she is getting DBT as I can hear the phrases her therapist is feeding her as they are very kind, healthy, balanced phrases she wouldn't normally use.

So my sister and I were lulled into a false sense of security and then last year I'm not sure what the trigger was, something to do with lockdown, lack of being able to see her therapist and turning 70 and she was back to the terrible anger, outbursts and unpredictability and attacking anyone close to her or close to us.

I have had times of being able to be there to support her mostly over the phone when she calls looking for a listening ear. But last week she came to a special event for grandparents day at the kids school and had a lovely time and then a few days later called me enraged about how angry she was with me. The attacks were very personal and hurtful so I couldn't listen to them and hung up on her. A few days later I tried to call her to see if she was ok and she was still raging so again I hung up. I want to avoid her when she's like that as even though she feels better once she's vented, I am broken. She has no idea the damage it does to our relationship. It also makes me cranky and stressed and I need to be fit to be a good parent/partner and just happy in myself. I also don't want to be absent/hardhearted towards her, I love her, I just don't want to be abused anymore.

I am looking at going to family therapy with my sister and mum (she has agreed to talk the three of us) and hope that a facilitator will help us create some boundaries. I can see it crushing my sister too who has taken on a lot of the role of listening to her over the last few years while I needed a bit of a break from it.

So I'm wondering how to let her know I love her but without taking any abuse, because I'm very close to cutting her off (only because I feel so vulnerable), which I don't want to do as I've always wanted her to be involved with the grandkids but she has now crossed a line by agreeing to a sleepover and then taking it away and I won't let her play games with them. She also threatened to say something nasty to them, I hung up before I could hear what it was, but I now don't think I trust her with the sleepover.

Any advice/thoughts appreciated x

[Channing]

Hello, and welcome to the board. I am so sorry you have endured these abusive tirades. A lot of people here struggle with the same issue you are facing: how do we maintain a connection with a person with BPD while maintaining safe boundaries for ourselves? The nature of the illness seems to preclude that.

I have tried (1) suggesting various neutral modifications to the relationship like less phone time or spending time together doing "positive" things; (2) setting a firm boundary like "I will not answer the phone during work hours unless there is a true emergency"; (3) trying to explain to my relative why the outbursts and rages are hurtful to me and asking that my relative see a therapist.

All of these have resulted in explosions of rage, accusations and long periods of estrangement. The only thing that has truly "worked" for me is to truly give up on the notion of having an emotionally healthy reciprocal relationship. The best advice I received was to view phone time as  "therapeutic" for my BPD relative and to only give her the phone time I am willing to give without resentment. Then, I let her talk about her favorite subjects, express interest in what she is saying,  and when the time is up, I  politely excuse myself. I do not discuss anything that is personal to me, including my feelings or opinions. If I do that, the information is later trotted out to hurt or humiliate me. 

[Rhubarb]

Thank you Channing,
That feels really familiar, that whatever you share (personal info/feelings) is later used against you. I like the advice of only giving phone time when I can really be present for her and am not trying to get something out of it myself. It will probably mean I answer less calls, but maybe be less resentful too which would be good for both of us. More acceptance, less frustration at how I know things actually are.

I appreciate your thoughts, you seem to know it all too well! Do you mind if I ask how old were you when you became aware of your relative's condition?

Rhubarb x

[Channing]

Hi Rhubarb, I think I became aware of my mother's condition about ten or fifteen years ago. A therapist I was seeing pointed out that the behavior that I described fit the DSM description of BPD. I also have a sister who has BPD and NPD behaviors. Dealing with them is challenging and I have received very helpful support on this board.

[Riv3rW0lf]

So I'm wondering how to let her know I love her but without taking any abuse, because I'm very close to cutting her off (only because I feel so vulnerable), which I don't want to do as I've always wanted her to be involved with the grandkids but she has now crossed a line by agreeing to a sleepover and then taking it away and I won't let her play games with them. She also threatened to say something nasty to them, I hung up before I could hear what it was, but I now don't think I trust her with the sleepover.

Hi Rhubarb,

I think you do well to protect your children. They are vulnerable, and you are responsible for them right now. You know too much about your mother's illness and how it can affect people to let her take it out on them and I think it goes to show you care for them and are the parent you yourself never had.

My BPD mother loves my children, and since they are still so young, mostly the dysfunction would come out as being awfully clingy, crying when she saw them telling them how much she missed them, then she would basically compete for love against me and wedge them against me, saying things like :"I would but your mother doesn't want me to." Before even consulting with me first... In my case, I cut contact. It was just too triggering for me and like you, I really felt I needed to heal, to be the best parent I can be for them, and my BPD mother made me anxious, stressed to a point where my H knew when I had been talking with her, and when drama was about to start...

I want to recognize your love and empathy for her, I can see how you want to make it work... I don't know how to help you and so mostly wanted to extend support for you. It is hard having a BPD mother, and is even harder when they become grandmother. I don't know for you, but I became the main vilain for my BPD mother when I had my children. And it takes strength and lots of boundaries. I know some people here did not, for example, let their BPD mother spend time with their children without supervision, which sounds like a necessary boundary in my experience... To protect them.

I also offered family therapy with my BPD mother, and she ended up saying no. That because I am the one that left, that I should be the one coming back, and that she won't go to therapy. I think she is scared of going, of being told she is borderline, that she has responsibilities in the current state of our relationship.

It's just... Puzzling to navigate all this... But I think your guts are right: protecting your children and being the best parent you can be for them is paramount to break the abuse cycle... And you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting to be a good parent to your kiddos...

 

[Rhubarb]

Well, that was just the nicest message of support that I think I really needed, thank you Riv3rW0lf!

[Couscous]

Hi Rhubarb, I’m not sure if you’ve tried an arm’s length relationship with your mother, and visiting with her mainly in public places, but that could be an alternative to cutting her off. Sadly, BPD mothers normally do not have the capacity for being good grandmothers and in most cases should not have unsupervised visits with one’s children, which is something we adult children usually have to grieve. Sending you hugs. 

[Rhubarb]

Thanks @Couscous, that would be my preference, to find a way to stay connected in a safe way, as I don't really want to cut her off, I just reached my limit.

My sister has been in touch with her and she's actually looked into us seeing a therapist together though it will be a few months until the first appointment. That's a great step in any case. My question for the therapist will be mostly around whether there is a way to let her know she's 'doing that thing' that has crossed the line (when she calls upset) that is more effective than hanging up. I mean, hanging up is effective in that it's protective, but feels rude and uncaring, but it's possible she can't hear anything in that moment. From experience, the longer on the phone, the more barbs she throws, so best to get out quickly.

She has been very good with the kids while they've been very young (young children have no judegement- which is a real trigger for BPD, even perceived judgement where there is none) but now we are clueing in to the fact that she might be spouting some awful stuff with them as they get older and she realises she can influence them, so yes I think unfortunately I won't be able to leave the kids with her.