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[Depression = 72% of members]

BPD, NPD, ADHD, PDA

It's a melting pot.  I don't know what she has.  At the end of the day, I doubt it makes a difference in my situation.

Yesterday morning she texted that we shouldn't bring dinner over as planned because she had another mini-stroke.  No spelling mistakes.

I am so used to hearing about her health problems and complaints and blow-by-blows where she's cried "wolf!" so many times, I almost dismissed it.  That's how conditioned I've become to her telling me she's had another ministroke or some other problem.  She calls everything a major crisis, and self-diagnoses all the time.

I called her.  Then she said it was chest pain.  So H and I and S27 jumped in the car and drove over there.  Once there, she started to get up off the couch to go to the bathroom.  Upon standing up she had severe chest pain going to her back, sweats, and nausea so I called the ambulance.  After a bunch of tests and a day in emerg she was diagnosed with angina.  Her pain abated before she was in the ambulance to leave the house, and never came back the rest of the day.  She was telling everyone she had a heart attack, and lying in emerg in exteme waif mode.  

I had spoken privately to the doctor and explained the dynamic to him.  I gave a few examples, and included that I have been seeing T for 10 years with suggestions that it sounded like BPD. I said that I was was telling them this so that I wouldn't be put in a position of being asked if I could care for her at discharge in mom's presence  because I couldn't provide her home care after care for the reasons explained. He listened.

About mid-afternoon in emerg mom started telling the staff she was ready to go home.The place was packed to the rafters.  She wasn't getting attention, and was feeling fine.

She had to show them she was able to go to the bathroom on her own with her walker because she lived independently, and they told her they couldn't discharge her if she couldn't do this. All afternoon she was asking for the bedpan.  She was suddenly able to go to the bathroom with her walker.  So she was discharged.  All her tests had come back negative, so the only explanation was angina.

We took her home, settled her in her chair with a cup of soup and some crackers, her meds, told her we were glad she was feeling better, and after a 9 hour day, went home.

During the time in emerg she told me to put her bedpan in place.  I told her to use her call button.  

At 5:30pm after a day in emerg, we told her we were going home to get a quick bite to eat.  She looked at us and then said "one of you can stay with me and one of you can go home".  I looked at her and said we were going to go take a break and we would be back in an hour.  She looked at me in utter disbelief..."you're leaving me here alone?" was the look.

Upon discharge, the doctor took 5-10 min to talk to her about accepting home care.  He told her she needed to eat humble pie.  Despite his good patient bedside manner, use of humour, and his skill and intelligence, she outmaneuvered him, and he knew she was no closer to accepting home care than before he started the conversation with her.  Then he told her she was stubborn and asked her if accepting home care would be helpful to her family.  She is in the "system" but has a history of cancelling her home care.

She can't see (macular degeneration).  She can't hear.  She has mini strokes and heart problems.  She's had 2 hip, 1 knee and back surgery.  She has vertigo.  She has Parkinson's.  She has osteoporosis.  She's weak and has a history of falls and broken bones.  She has stomach problems.  Now she has angina. That's just the physical stuff.  She has trouble toileting.  She hasn't used a bathtub in several years, and she eats hot dogs and instant food, and recycles food that friends bring her (mild eating disorder/body image lifelong issues).  

A year ago, a RAI assessment determined she did not qualify for assisted living. One done 2 years earlier said she did.

A referral to see a geriatrician, has not resulted in an appointment in over 6 months.  

In the lead up to Christmas her depressive personality was in high gear, and every time one of us saw her, she said how lonely she was.  

She has declined assisted living every time it has been offered to her (when she qualified), and more recently, she defiantly told H she was "NEVER going to 'look' at it". A nurse from long term care who did a home visit in November, told her that mom would be a very good fit, and would probably enjoy being around other people, while enjoying the freedom to live life as she wants.  Mom said no.

This morning S27 asked if "I had called grandma" yet today.  H looked at me and tried to be helpful by saying "we could do it together".  My reply:  "I have to go have a shower".

 

Really?  This woman chooses to live independently, accepts the associated risks, treats me and others (including her friends) like her slaves, is non compliant, irrational, incorrigible, and after I've spent a day with her in emerg and she's discharged, I'm supposed to want to check on her the next day? I mean I get it - most people would want to check on someone that had experienced angina the first time - but mine isn't a normal mother.  I needed my space today.

I am a prisoner.  She is my ball and chain.  People call me when she doesn't answer her phone because they are worried about her.  People make me responsible for her decision to live alone with all the risks that entails.  I'm frustrated.

I couldn't sleep last night.  

My H was relieved it wasn't a real heart attack.  I was conflicted because if it was a real heart attack, she might not be able to live independently anymore.

Being responsible for her is a nightmare.  I can't even imagine what it's like for her with all her ailments, and loneliness in that house by herself.  But its her choice.  I don't know how she does it.  Looking at her, the situation is pathetic.  

At the end of the day, do labels matter?  She isn't diagnosed.  She would never be cooperative enough to be diagnosed.  So what difference does a label make in this situation?

I'm struggling with resentment.  The only reason I work now (I was retired) is to set a boundary and not be available at her beck and call. But I don't want to work any more.  I want to enjoy my retirement.

I'm worn out and feel like BPD is a sentence to death by a thousand cuts.

Having a bad day.

[Methuen]

BPD, NPD, ADHD, PDA

It's a melting pot.  I don't know what she has.  At the end of the day, I doubt it makes a difference in my situation.

Yesterday morning she texted that we shouldn't bring dinner over as planned because she had another mini-stroke.  No spelling mistakes.

I am so used to hearing about her health problems and complaints and blow-by-blows where she's cried "wolf!" so many times, I almost dismissed it.  That's how conditioned I've become to her telling me she's had another ministroke or some other problem.  She calls everything a major crisis, and self-diagnoses all the time.

I called her.  Then she said it was chest pain.  So H and I and S27 jumped in the car and drove over there.  Once there, she started to get up off the couch to go to the bathroom.  Upon standing up she had severe chest pain going to her back, sweats, and nausea so I called the ambulance.  After a bunch of tests and a day in emerg she was diagnosed with angina.  Her pain abated before she was in the ambulance to leave the house, and never came back the rest of the day.  She was telling everyone she had a heart attack, and lying in emerg in exteme waif mode.  

I had spoken privately to the doctor and explained the dynamic to him.  I gave a few examples, and included that I have been seeing T for 10 years with suggestions that it sounded like BPD. I said that I was was telling them this so that I wouldn't be put in a position of being asked if I could care for her at discharge in mom's presence  because I couldn't provide her home care after care for the reasons explained. He listened.

About mid-afternoon in emerg mom started telling the staff she was ready to go home.The place was packed to the rafters.  She wasn't getting attention, and was feeling fine.

She had to show them she was able to go to the bathroom on her own with her walker because she lived independently, and they told her they couldn't discharge her if she couldn't do this. All afternoon she was asking for the bedpan.  She was suddenly able to go to the bathroom with her walker.  So she was discharged.  All her tests had come back negative, so the only explanation was angina.

We took her home, settled her in her chair with a cup of soup and some crackers, her meds, told her we were glad she was feeling better, and after a 9 hour day, went home.

During the time in emerg she told me to put her bedpan in place.  I told her to use her call button.  

At 5:30pm after a day in emerg, we told her we were going home to get a quick bite to eat.  She looked at us and then said "one of you can stay with me and one of you can go home".  I looked at her and said we were going to go take a break and we would be back in an hour.  She looked at me in utter disbelief..."you're leaving me here alone?" was the look.

Upon discharge, the doctor took 5-10 min to talk to her about accepting home care.  He told her she needed to eat humble pie.  Despite his good patient bedside manner, use of humour, and his skill and intelligence, she outmaneuvered him, and he knew she was no closer to accepting home care than before he started the conversation with her.  Then he told her she was stubborn and asked her if accepting home care would be helpful to her family.  She is in the "system" but has a history of cancelling her home care.

She can't see (macular degeneration).  She can't hear.  She has mini strokes and heart problems.  She's had 2 hip, 1 knee and back surgery.  She has vertigo.  She has Parkinson's.  She has osteoporosis.  She's weak and has a history of falls and broken bones.  She has stomach problems.  Now she has angina. That's just the physical stuff.  She has trouble toileting.  She hasn't used a bathtub in several years, and she eats hot dogs and instant food, and recycles food that friends bring her (mild eating disorder/body image lifelong issues).  

A year ago, a RAI assessment determined she did not qualify for assisted living. One done 2 years earlier said she did.

A referral to see a geriatrician, has not resulted in an appointment in over 6 months.  

In the lead up to Christmas her depressive personality was in high gear, and every time one of us saw her, she said how lonely she was.  

She has declined assisted living every time it has been offered to her (when she qualified), and more recently, she defiantly told H she was "NEVER going to 'look' at it". A nurse from long term care who did a home visit in November, told her that mom would be a very good fit, and would probably enjoy being around other people, while enjoying the freedom to live life as she wants.  Mom said no.

This morning S27 asked if "I had called grandma" yet today.  H looked at me and tried to be helpful by saying "we could do it together".  My reply:  "I have to go have a shower".

 

Really?  This woman chooses to live independently, accepts the associated risks, treats me and others (including her friends) like her slaves, is non compliant, irrational, incorrigible, and after I've spent a day with her in emerg and she's discharged, I'm supposed to want to check on her the next day? I mean I get it - most people would want to check on someone that had experienced angina the first time - but mine isn't a normal mother.  I needed my space today.

I am a prisoner.  She is my ball and chain.  People call me when she doesn't answer her phone because they are worried about her.  People make me responsible for her decision to live alone with all the risks that entails.  I'm frustrated.

I couldn't sleep last night.  

My H was relieved it wasn't a real heart attack.  I was conflicted because if it was a real heart attack, she might not be able to live independently anymore.

Being responsible for her is a nightmare.  I can't even imagine what it's like for her with all her ailments, and loneliness in that house by herself.  But its her choice.  I don't know how she does it.  Looking at her, the situation is pathetic.  

At the end of the day, do labels matter?  She isn't diagnosed.  She would never be cooperative enough to be diagnosed.  So what difference does a label make in this situation?

I'm struggling with resentment.  The only reason I work now (I was retired) is to set a boundary and not be available at her beck and call. But I don't want to work any more.  I want to enjoy my retirement.

I'm worn out and feel like BPD is a sentence to death by a thousand cuts.

Having a bad day.

[Turkish]

That's so much to deal with...

From my experience, labels became irrelevant after a certain point though the skilled care facility was able to medicate my mom enough to stop attacking them and other patients. I don't think they were aware of the diagnoses since it was from a different county.

It's between where you are now and where she is likely to end up (against her will) which is hardest.

I've thought about sealing a letter for my kids not to feel guilty for letting me go if I ever become like this.

[Riv3rW0lf]

 

An impossible situation to be in... She is more than stubborn! Our system truly is ill adapted to elderly people with a history of mental illness, and families, you, are left alone carrying this enormous weight only a handful of people can understand...

Methuen... I can imagine your resentment, and I understand it. You've been robbed from your childhood, and she continues robbing you of a well deserved retirement.

I wonder what, if anything, would make it possible for you to not work, to be retired, and not have to be available to her 24h/7..the emotional ties are so very strong that I understand this must feel impossible... At the same time, you truly deserve to live your life. It's yours.

...

I don't know what would help, what words to say. But I wanted to say that I read your post, that I get it, and that I am sending you lots of thoughts and support.

[zachira]

I don't really know what to say except change is coming that will end your mother being able to live alone, and it certainly can't come soon enough with all that your mother puts you through. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[Couscous]

This morning S27 asked if "I had called grandma" yet today.  H looked at me and tried to be helpful by saying "we could do it together".

And why couldn’t one of them call her?

Any chance you could spend the rest of the winter in Arizona?

[Notwendy]

Oh my goodness Methuen,

I have an idea. I don't know if it would appeal to you but your mother gets a lot of secondary gain by calling you to come in an emergency. Even if it is a real one.

One example of this is when my father had surgery. I had already made two trips to go help out and I was exhausted at this point. My kids were still at home and I had also paid someone to care for them at the time. They weren't little but needed someone to pick up from school, fix meals, drive to activities. I was glad to do this for my father and wanted to be there for him, but it was running into neglect for myself and the kids.

The day after I got back home from a visit, my mother calls me to tell me my father is very ill and might be dying. I don't think twice and jump in the car and rush to see him.

Dad is ill but not dying thankfully. The surgical wound is infected. The home nurse knew about it and was on her way to see him and she had already arranged for him to go back to the hospital to get admitted for antibiotics.

So here's the other side of "going to help Dad". My parents loved it as it met their needs. But I was exhausted and they didn't care. It wasn't enough. Every time I went, the moment I got back, they wanted more. What about my kids? Didn't my parents think I needed to be with them? I don't think they thought about that. They liked my being there as it served them and that is all they cared about.

Now, what was I providing for them? Dad didn't really need me for him. He was in the hospital most of the time where he was being taken care of. His needs were medical. I could do none of that for him. He had the surgeon, the nurses, his primary doctor, and they had all of that covered. What did he need me for?

To deal with BPD mother for him. To provide her caretaking/enabling and all this while, being alone with her in the house, her abusive behavior ramped up. She felt better, Dad felt better. How did I feel? That wasn't their concern. I will give Dad a pass as he was too sick to be concerned, but BPD mother saw me as a source of getting her needs met and she knew how to get me there.

I looked back at other "crises" she called me for and saw a similar pattern. Yes, my father was ill, but his medical needs were being met and she'd lie or exaggerate the situation to get me there. She was not going to stop doing this. It worked for her. I had to stop and sadly, that meant my parents perceived me as the cruel daughter who wasn't there for Dad.

BPD mother also "cries wolf" and there was one time where she called and a bit later, her doctor called. But realistically- what was it that we could have even done? If someone is having a medical issue, they need a medical team. How would the outcome have been different if instead of going over there, you called 911. Maybe it would have been a false alarm, maybe not, but that's up to the ER to decide. Your mother's medical needs were being met.  Same for when I ran to see my Dad. The nurse took care of his needs.

You did what you feel is the right thing to do by going to see your mother but that also put you in the drama pit with her and reinforced her behavior.

I have also spent hours in the ER with my mother, each time, feeling somehow resentful. Why? Because we are trying to be helpful but we also being used, used emotionally. A loving parent would have some concern for their child. They'd have some sense of limits. Your mother doesn't and neither does mine. All your time, all your resources, none of it's enough for them. You are the one who has to have boundaries.

It's not a comfortable place to be the "horrible daughter who isn't there for mother at this time".

[madeline7]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have been and to some degree are still in this cycle. When I was at my wits end, I had a conversation with my Mom's PCP using code terms like dysregulated since she is not diagnosed, and he told me the family might need to wait for "discovery", meaning she would have to somehow fail on her own, end up in the hospital where it would be decided she could no longer live on her own. All the rescuing we were doing was just delaying the inevitable and wearing me and my siblings out. She is finally in Assisted Living and wearing out the caregivers. I'm still dealing with the fallout, but to a lesser degree. She will fall, staff will call 911, then refuse help when the paramedics arrive (she can do this as she has capacity and if it appears she hasn't broken anything the paramedics will not engage with her when she is in a rage). THEN she will call me or my siblings and ask us to take her to the hospital. Of course we say no, but still, how manipulative is that? Not to mention how embarrassed and concerned we are that someone who really needs a paramedic is possibly being delayed because they are dealing with her
Right now she has COVID and is refusing hydration, having her blood pressure and oxygen levels monitored, she will only allow her temperature to be taken. It "appears" she has a mild case, but they have ordered Paxlovid to take extra precautions since they really can't fully assess her case due to her non compliance, and of course this has resulted in unnecessary multiple phone calls with staff and family. It's exhausting but better now that she is under the care of a facility. Personally, I think if she were very sick, or fell and broke bones, she would be compliant. And I also think she has times when she can be charming with the staff. Right now she is refusing our calls, a silent treatment mode to "punish us". Last phone call to me she raged why did I move away and leave her there to die. Bottom line (for me anyway) is placement helps, but the challenges remain. BPD, or whatever label you give her, is hard.

[Notwendy]

It's interesting because, it's my mother's care team who began with code words with me, I think because they weren't sure if I knew what BPD was. They would allude to "your mother's illness, mental illness" so I was the one to break the ice and say "we've suspected BPD for a long time" to which they agreed.

My mother has refused assisted living and I doubt she would go unless the situation is forced. I won't participate in that discussion with her. Just like the "crying wolf", she has several times said she's ready, gets the family and her health care team involved, schedules a meeting and them, doesn't follow through. I have learned that this is another attention seeking situation and something she won't give up, because she likes the attention and has no intention of following through with it.

Her home health team is like a revolving door of new people in and out because nobody can handle being with her for long due. They usually quit or she fires them if they don't comply with her exactly.

[zachira]

What Madeline7 and Notwendy have shared really sounds a lot like the challenges with my aunt who had some BPD traits. My cousin was furious with her mother when she claimed to be in distress at a Fourth of July celebration and the paramedics were called. The emergency room physicians could not find anything wrong with her. My aunt would regularly schedule medical appointments on days her daughter was working so she would have to take time off. I once volunteered to take my aunt to one of her medical appointments and noticed how she just ate up all the attention she received. She later tried to con me into cooking dinner for her, and I did not respond to her suggestion knowing that there would be many more unreasonable requests after that.

[Notwendy]

Methuen, one last resort option is to put the state in charge of your mother. This was actually brought up to me as a last resort by one of my mother's home health coordinators. BPD mother had just gotten everyone ready to have another assisted living and finances discussion and then "changed her mind" about including me and lied about it. So I won't get involved with this again, by my choice. She even brought it up the other day "let's discuss what you want as I am considering assisted living. I think you would like the silver" to which I went radio silent. I will not discuss that topic.

I was able to get my concerns answered about her finances by the nurse coordinator who has seen some of that information. I don't know exactly what she has but it's enough that if the bank takes her house, she will be able to find an assisted living that meets her needs. Not all her wants, but I doubt any place would do that. But she'd have her basic needs met, and that matters to me. I told the nurse that this information helps because, while I am not obligated to support her, having my mother homeless would bother me and I am glad to not worry about that.

What she said next is something nobody has ever said to me before. "Your mother has been selfish, you can look out for yourself too". She even said the state could take custody of my mother too if I wanted to do that. I don't wish to do that and hope it doesn't come to that. However, she isn't cooperative with anybody, not me, not her health care team, and if it came to where things had to be state ordered for her, if it's in her best interest - I guess that is an option.

[Turkish]

What she said next is something nobody has ever said to me before. "Your mother has been selfish, you can look out for yourself too". She even said the state could take custody of my mother too if I wanted to do that. I don't wish to do that and hope it doesn't come to that. However, she isn't cooperative with anybody, not me, not her health care team, and if it came to where things had to be state ordered for her, if it's in her best interest - I guess that is an option.

Yeah, that's an option though I still feel kind of guilty about it. The upside is that she was taken care of and she couldn't fight the system like she fought me.

[Couscous]

She even brought it up the other day "let's discuss what you want as I am considering assisted living. I think you would like the silver" to which I went radio silent. I will not discuss that topic.

My suspicion that when you go radio silent she will think she has "won" because she knows that she got to you. The issue with that is that she will keep playing this little game as long as she is getting the payoff she is wanting, which is not much fun for you.

[Notwendy]

Yes, she plays to win but her payoff is a discussion and that would be the bigger payoff for her. There really is no way for her to not win any discussion, she controls the game. The only way I could completely avoid that would be to not speak to her at all but considering her age, I don't feel comfortable doing that.

[Methuen]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

And why couldn’t one of them call her?

Any chance you could spend the rest of the winter in Arizona?

Fair question.  S27 did volunteer.  However, when I replied with “I’m going to take a shower “ he kind of took the cue.  Thing is, I didn’t encourage it, because that contact just encourages her to express her neediness.  For example, if I reply to one of her texts, then a flurry of texts will immediately bombard my inbox.  If she gets used to the attention, then when S27 leaves to go back to his hometown after the holidays, she can’t make the adjustment and she’s a worse than normal emotional wreck in January because she feels abandoned again.  This has been the pattern since dad died 18 years ago.  Christmas has this flurry of family contact, and then in January when things return to normal, her emotions hit rock bottom.  

Hence the reason I didn’t encourage him to phone her.

She needs to deal with her feelings.

your mother gets a lot of secondary gain by calling you to come in an emergency. Even if it is a real one…

You did what you feel is the right thing to do by going to see your mother but that also put you in the drama pit with her and reinforced her behavior.

I have also spent hours in the ER with my mother, each time, feeling somehow resentful. Why? Because we are trying to be helpful but we also being used, used emotionally. A loving parent would have some concern for their child. They'd have some sense of limits. Your mother doesn't and neither does mine. All your time, all your resources, none of it's enough for them. You are the one who has to have boundaries.

It's not a comfortable place to be the "horrible daughter who isn't there for mother at this time".

Exactly NW.  Exactly.  I’m fully aware that going into her house plays into the drama and gives her attention.  But I couldn’t call the ambulance and not go there because she keeps the doors locked for security and they wouldn’t be able to get into the house to help her.  

Furthermore, when somebody rings the doorbell, she doesn’t hear it.  She never answers the door anymore.  

Her friends either have a key to let themselves in, or they call first so she knows they are coming and can unlock the door.

Sh doesn’t know her neighbors.  

Hence the reason one of us has to go to meet the ambulance.    

But I hear you when you say it is not necessary to stay at the hospital.  Except that it kind of is because our hospital and emergency department is chronically overcapacity and understaffed. It’s hard to stop caring.  It’s not in my nature, and walking out of there away from my mother just doesn’t feel right.  On the other hand, I’m not well right now, and despite having 3 weeks off work from illness and then holidays, I’m in a worse place personally than I was a month ago.  My T said yesterday that she is worried about me and wants me to either ask for a work reduction or take time off.

Madelaine7, I completely relate. I have also been told point blank that something catestrophic must happen (discovery) for the situation to change.  There is something wrong with this.

I also hear you about capacity.  My question: what does it take to no longer have capacity?  Must one attempt suicide?  My mom can’t wander naked at night because she can’t get out of the house with her walker due to the front stairs outside her house…

Last phone call to me she raged why did I move away and leave her there to die

Yep.  My mom has already declared this is why she is not going to assisted living.

I hear you completely.  And I understand that the problems don’t go away with assisted living.  But where I am right now, any improvement would be helpful.

NW, I hear you about the possibility of making her a ward of the state, but I don’t think I could voluntarily do that.

But if some authority said that is what needed to happen I wouldn’t stop it.  But that will not happen.

BPD mother had just gotten everyone ready to have another assisted living and finances discussion and then "changed her mind" about including me and lied about it. So I won't get involved with this again, by my choice. She even brought it up the other day "let's discuss what you want as I am considering assisted living. I think you would like the silver" to which I went radio silent. I will not discuss that topic.

I agree radio silence is the only option here.  Disengage.  Anything else will play into the drama.

Meanwhile, I  don’t know what quality of life she can have.  She She can’t do anything any more because she can’t see or hear.  She isn’t mobile. She’s anxious and depressed and lonely. Every time I or H go to her house she is laying on her couch.  She takes 2-3 long naps every day.  Getting up off her couch seems like ke a 10 minute ordeal.  It’s waif-dom in the extreme. This is why she doesn’t answer the door to her house any more.  

It’s pathetic.  

She’s simply existing.  And making my life miserable.

Monkey on my back.  Ball and chain.  And I didn’t get a call back from the doctors office in two days after leaving a message with 3 queries.

I’m at a complete loss.  

[Notwendy]

I’m fully aware that going into her house plays into the drama and gives her attention.  But I couldn’t call the ambulance and not go there because she keeps the doors locked for security and they wouldn’t be able to get into the house to help her.  

Furthermore, when somebody rings the doorbell, she doesn’t hear it.  She never answers the door anymore.  

I imagine this happens a lot with 911. What if someone is in dire straits and doesn't answer the door and there's nobody to let them in? There are many people who live alone, and if they are hurt or sick, can't get to the door.

I don't know for sure but I guess that 911 would call police and get legal authority to break in the door to attend to someone in an emergency situation. They'd have to be able to do that.

This might actually be an event that leads to discovery that your mother is a danger to herself and can not live on her own. It would be a documented event.

[zachira]

Methuen,
What I am understanding is your mother continues to find ways to violate your boundaries and cause you endless distress. Maybe it would be helpful or not helpful to do a chart of what you will not do for her and what you choose to do, and update the chart from time to time. Usually the best way to do this chart, is to start with the list of what you will not do, wait until you have exhausted the list of what you will not do, and what you choose to do starts coming up. You have said over and over again, that you do certain things for your mother because you feel you have to? Is this FOG, (fear, obligation, guilt) or is it something you want to do because this is the kind of person you are? Maybe it is a little bit of both, and this can be emotionally exhausting to not be clear as to exactly why. Reframing what you do for your mother, as things you have chosen to do because of who you are and to give yourself a pat on the back for being who you are, might relieve some of the emotional exhaustion you are feeling right now. Does this make any sense or it is not really helpful?

[madeline7]

17 years ago, my Mom had a suicide attempt. Dad was out and she used that opportunity to leave messages for me and my siblings essentially saying goodbye. When I was unable to reach my Dad, I called the police in her town, they arrived and then called me, asking if I would agree to "forced entry". I did, and they broke through the back slider, found her in her den after consuming pills and carted her off to the hospital. So there appears to be a way for the paramedics or police to get into someone's house, or at least there was 17 years ago in her home state. Now... that being said, her subsequent 72 hour hold in a psyche program was convincing everyone she was fine, getting out and then resuming her toxic BPD behaviors. At one point, after I begged my Dad to get her the help she so obviously needed, he told me to mind my business. I told him it became my business when she called me, and I was the one who called the authorities and essentially saved her life. Remembering this time on my life may seem traumatic, but for me, it is helpful to remember, as it keeps my boundaries strong. I continue to work with the staff at her facility, but my contact with her is very limited. She continues to be a challenge, but I am no longer focusing on her the way I used to. It is sad, but she has been so emotionally abusive for so long that I have become desensitized, and my Dad unknowingly created a monster with his enabling and bullying and now he is gone and I cannot and will not continue to enable her, even if it is at the end of her life.

[Methuen]

Maybe it would be helpful or not helpful to do a chart of what you will not do for her and what you choose to do... You have said over and over again, that you do certain things for your mother because you feel you have to? Is this FOG, (fear, obligation, guilt) or is it something you want to do because this is the kind of person you are? Maybe it is a little bit of both, and this can be emotionally exhausting to not be clear as to exactly why. Reframing what you do for your mother, as things you have chosen to do because of who you are and to give yourself a pat on the back for being who you are, might relieve some of the emotional exhaustion you are feeling right now. Does this make any sense or it is not really helpful?

I don't do much any more because I have reached an emotional "wall" with her.  My H took over the grocery shopping and taking her to appointments when I went back to work, to take that burden off of me.  He handles her better, and by that I mean he doesn't get triggered.  What I do now is drop in unexpectedly when I feel well enough to do that (with him present usually), and go to emerg with her.  I also do "background" work arranging all her Dr and medical appointments, and there is a lot of that to do with all her problems.  I also look after her finances as financial POA.  She never gave me healthcare POA, and I didn't know there was such a thing until relatively recently.

I feel the duty to do this stuff.  I am truly exhausted after almost 20 years of "caretaking" her through my father's illness and since his passing.  That is above and beyond the caretaking I did as a child.  Now that I see the parentification, I am really resentful.  In some ways it was easier when I didn't see it.  Is it emotional incest?  I don't know.

I am a caring person.  Everybody who has met me sees the caring I hold for people and my community.  I've dedicated my life to helping others, and also chose a "helping" profession. But mom has burned me out of caring for her.  I don't feel healthy enough to do that anymore. And I don't want the job.  Nothing I do is ever enough.  It doesn't matter what I have done in the past, since I can't meet her expectations today.  We can never do enough for a person with BPD.

I am burned out.  That's my problem.

And I don't see an exit ramp, because it is not within my values to walk away from her, so I'm very conflicted.

NotWendy, I have to think about not being available to let the paramedics into her house.  This goes against my values, so I struggle with this.  In the past, when she fell and I had to call the paramedics, they asked if I could meet them to let them in the house.  What do I say?  No, I can't come meet to to let you in the house to take my mom to emergency?  That doesn't feel right.  I live in a small community.  Everybody knows everybody.  Beyond my own conscience, what would it be like to live with that?  What kind of vengeance would my mother inflict upon me when she recovered and gets discharged back home again (which always seems to happen...)

Still, I hear your point and it is a good one.  

I appreciate the ideas everyone is bringing forward.  I will sit with them all.  Please keep the ideas coming.  There has to be something I'm missing or doing wrong...and I really need help.

[zachira]

Methuen,
You are a very kind and caring person. We very much appreciate you here at PSI.
Here is another idea which may or may not be helpful in dealing with your mother. Could you set a time limit on interactions with her? For example, if you have to call an ambulance for your mother, you let her go on her own, and then wait at home until you can find out what her actual condition is. Being in the presence of disordered people is exhausting, because of our mirror neurons, and especially when that disordered person is our mother. Could you decide that no more than an hour (of maybe even less time) with her, when there is an emergency, or would that be too much? I hope you can go on a long vacation soon and get a much needed break from all the stress.

[GaGrl]

Methuen, I think you've said before that your mother refuses to wear a Life Alert (or other brand) necklace or wristband. Is it time to attempt to change her mind on that?

My mom wore one until we retired and moved into our retirement house, where she had already been living alone for several years. Even after we moved in, she wore the wristband if we were out for more than an hour or so.

Here's how the access to the house worked...thete was a lockbox on the front door, with a security code that was known only to us and to the Life Alert company. If Mom had activated an emergency call, the responders would be given the security code to the lickbox, which contained the front door key. 911 responders deal with these Life Alert setups all the time.

Your mom might abuse the service, but...it would keep you from going there at midnight.

[Turkish]

Your mom might abuse the service, but...it would keep you from going there at midnight.

One too many calls to EMS was what finally triggered APS to get my mom off of her hoarder property.

[Notwendy]

My mother has one too.

She had given the service my phone number to call to inform me. Once I got a call from them at 3 am that they were taking her to the emergency room. I called over there to see if she was OK and spoke to a nurse who told me she was stable.

Later that morning, she called me to ask why I didn't call her then. I replied, I spoke to a nurse who told me you were stable so I figured I'd speak to you later. She got angry and told me to not speak to the nurse.

So after we hung up I figured what is the point of having the alert call me if I can't find out any information and I don't want to be called at all hours of the night if I can't find out if she's OK or not. Her health care providers have my number if they need it. I called the alert company and asked them to remove my number.

[Methuen]

These are super helpful ideas

Zachira-that’s brilliant. You put your thumb right on the problem. All day in emerg was much too much. I’m still reeling from it.  Your solution has beauty in its simplicity.  But I was never going to think of this.  I mean, what person puts a limit on the time they will spend with their mom in emerg?  And yet, I’ve had to put limits on the time I spend visiting her in her house!  I just didn’t connect it to an actual emergency.  This is where BPD forces us to learn new things that feel very un-natural.  And this feels unnatural.  But for next time, I  will remember this. I needed to hear this.

GaGrl thank you.  I’m shaking my head in disbelief…because…she already has a lockbox.  We got it when she got home care.  Of course, when she got the life alert at a different time, she gave the company my number which was completely logical and rational.  That’s what everyone does.  But now, I’m going to act on your idea. Why didn’t I think of this?  You’re right  in remembering that in the past few years mom has refused to wear her lifeline.  She only started keeping it in a pocket a month ago, which says something.

Turksh, my question to you, is…” What did you experience when your mom got put into the facility (motel) by the state?  At T the other day, I kind of collapsed in a puddle when I imagined the relief I would feel… Did you feel relief, or what was that like?  How did your mom’s adjustment to her new surroundings go? Did she fight it?  My mom’s a fighter and takes immense pride in that. She fights everything  including things designed to help her. I think she does this because she sees them as a demand on her.  It has been suggested to me she has pathological demand avoidance or PDA.  It explains why she also cancelled home care and now refuses it.  For her, people she doesn’t know coming into her home through a lockbox is a demand.  Even going to appointments is a demand.  They cause her intense stress and anxiety even though they help her.

Later that morning, she called me to ask why I didn't call her then. I replied, I spoke to a nurse who told me you were stable so I figured I'd speak to you later. She got angry and told me to not speak to the nurse.

This is so like my mom.  I have a theory for you and you’ve probably already thought about this.  

They demand our full attention and loyalty including doing whatever they want to the letter. Your mom wanted your attention and loyalty.  The time of 3am was irrelevant to her. If we don’t do it what they want/need, they interpret it as us not loving them or not being loyal.. Then they feel rejected. The response is anger, and they then project their feeling of rejection back onto us by rejecting us in some way - in my mom’s case by hanging up the phone and following this with the silent treatment. (I had stated that I was going to ferment my sauerkraut longer than her and she screamed “don’t you dare talk to me like that!” And hung up.) Her strategy doesn’t work for her though because I love the silent treatment.  It’s the only time I get peace. In your mom’s case, she wants your attention at 3am too, and not giving her that led to her feeling rejected  or a feeling you were disloyal so she responded with anger.  I admire you for removing, yourself as a contact in response.  Just - wow.  These are good things for me to hear.  

These ideas are all helpful . Being n the eye of the storm , I don’t seem to be able to think of them myself. Any others anyone?

[Methuen]

 

H just reminded me that when mom cancelled home care, she took the key out of the lockbox.

There goes that idea.

[zachira]

Glad some of the ideas of members are helpful! I so much hope you will start to feel better as you practice new ways of taking care of yourself. Many members on PSI understand how hard it is to do the self care because of how the disordered people in our lives find new ways to overwhelm us.
Here are some other ideas which may or may not be helpful. You have said you are exhausted by scheduling all of your mother's appointments and making inquiries about her care. Would it be possible to hire a case manager for yourself who represents you to do this? After all, it is possible for a person's legal representative in other areas to contact people for the person they represent. I am wondering if you would consider meeting with an attorney who could help you. (You may have to do free preliminary screenings with several to find the right attorney.) I think your question might be something like this: I am no longer able to take care of my mother; it is affecting me to the point that I am not doing well at all, and I worry my mother might outlive me because of the toll she is taking on my mental and physical health. My mother refuses to go to assisted to living...What are my realistic options? From my experience, a good attorney is worth his/her weight in gold, and most attorneys give standard answers that aren't helpful that make them lots of money, however when you find a creative highly effective one that really cares about his/her clients, as I did, he/she can be the key to solving what seems like an impossible problem for you and for other attorneys. I know that having your mother committed to some kind of institution is not a role you want to be in and it is something almost nobody wants to do. My advice: Do not be afraid to ask the hard questions and explore all the solutions with people who can help you, as hard as it is to say these things, because let's face it going out looking for help for your mother means having to deal with lots of people who don't get it, and treat you like you are not a good daughter, which is completely the opposite of the truth, as you are kind, generous daughter.
Today is New Year's Day and I hope 2023 will be a much better year for you than 2022!
 

[GaGrl]

H just reminded me that when mom cancelled home care, she took the key out of the lockbox.

There goes that idea.

If she has a "Life Alert" program, it might require the lockbox. You might want to check. Otherwise you are paying around $400 for nothing, as emergency services can't get to her.

[Notwendy]

Sometimes BPD mother pushes my limits to the point where I have to have a boundary. You are correct, she wanted me to call her at 3 am. It's not likely I would have gotten accurate information from her and I just wanted to know if she was in dire straits or not. I knew I would be lying in bed awake if I didn't know that.

The nurse had just seen her and was waiting on tests and so didn't have a lot to say but could assure me she was stable. With that info, I could get back to sleep for a bit and call later, but it was interrupted sleep. When we spoke, I was tired and patience was lacking and I felt I had reached a limit with this.

[Couscous]

Later that morning, she called me to ask why I didn't call her then. I replied, I spoke to a nurse who told me you were stable so I figured I'd speak to you later. She got angry and told me to not speak to the nurse.

So after we hung up I figured what is the point of having the alert call me if I can't find out any information and I don't want to be called at all hours of the night if I can't find out if she's OK or not. Her health care providers have my number if they need it. I called the alert company and asked them to remove my number.

Of course lashing out at you wasn’t the best way for your mother to communicate her hurt feelings, and at the same time, I can actually understand why your mother felt hurt, even though you planned to call her later.

[Couscous]

You are correct, she wanted me to call her at 3 am.

Yikes, she was able to fool the the EMS personnel? That is one scary thought! I am going to have to seriously rethink my plans to live in the same country as my mother in the future if that is the case…

[Notwendy]

Yikes, she was able to fool the the EMS personnel? That is one scary thought! I am going to have to seriously rethink my plans to live in the same country as my mother in the future if that is the case…

I don't think it's a matter of fooling them or not. If EMS is called, I think they are obligated to bring the caller in to the emergency room to be evaluated.

Because of her age, BPD mother can have more than one problem and most often, she needs some kind of test- blood tests or xrays. She does exaggerate but even if she slips off a chair and isn't hurt, if she calls and says she has fallen and is in pain, they have to check that out. These could probably be done on a non emergency basis but once she calls for EMS, they are obligated to take her to the hospital.