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[Depression = 72% of members]

Turksh, my question to you, is…” What did you experience when your mom got put into the facility (motel) by the state?  At T the other day, I kind of collapsed in a puddle when I imagined the relief I would feel… Did you feel relief, or what was that like?  How did your mom’s adjustment to her new surroundings go? Did she fight it?  My mom’s a fighter and takes immense pride in that. She fights everything  including things designed to help her.

Her APS case worker had a lot of experience and did everything by the book given my mom's rights. They put her in a little strip motel. She looked like she made a tiny home out of it. It faced a tiny creek. The other residents looked like people who came from other programs. They liked my mom. She has autonomy to take the bus to go shopping and out into the community. She was safe and surrounded by people, rather than in the woods to "die on the hill" as she always used to say.  I was LC so I only saw it when they called me to clean it out. It seemed pleasant to me.

She was moved from there into skilled care after mutliple medical incidents. I brought her her Bible and a few other things, letting the motel manager toss the rest.

[Turkish]

Turksh, my question to you, is…” What did you experience when your mom got put into the facility (motel) by the state?  At T the other day, I kind of collapsed in a puddle when I imagined the relief I would feel… Did you feel relief, or what was that like?  How did your mom’s adjustment to her new surroundings go? Did she fight it?  My mom’s a fighter and takes immense pride in that. She fights everything  including things designed to help her.

Her APS case worker had a lot of experience and did everything by the book given my mom's rights. They put her in a little strip motel. She looked like she made a tiny home out of it. It faced a tiny creek. The other residents looked like people who came from other programs. They liked my mom. She has autonomy to take the bus to go shopping and out into the community. She was safe and surrounded by people, rather than in the woods to "die on the hill" as she always used to say.  I was LC so I only saw it when they called me to clean it out. It seemed pleasant to me.

She was moved from there into skilled care after mutliple medical incidents. I brought her her Bible and a few other things, letting the motel manager toss the rest.

[Notwendy]

Of course lashing out at you wasn’t the best way for your mother to communicate her hurt feelings, and at the same time, I can actually understand why your mother felt hurt, even though you planned to call her later.

I understand as well and surely didn't want to hurt her feelings, but this also is a frequent thing she does, and most of the time, it is not for emergency reasons.

Calling her and showing concern to her is a form of narcissistic supply to her. I did not want to be a part of that. In addition, she often lies to me about what is going on, to the point that I don't know if what she says is true or not.

The only way to sort this thing out at 3 am was to call the nurse and when she told me the situation, I could tell this was not urgent.  So, while it may have hurt her feelings, and I didn't intend that, I didn't want to speak to her at the time.

Interesting as she often gets herself into a situation where she's "victim" to my boundaries and has her feelings hurt. She keeps pushing at them until I have had enough of it and say no.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I understand as well and surely didn't want to hurt her feelings, but this also is a frequent thing she does, and most of the time, it is not for emergency reasons.

That's what make dealing with a parent with BPD so hard.

They take seemingly natural things, like going to the hospital and expecting people to care (I mean, if I went to the hospital, I do expect my family would care enough to call/visit), but then flip it around and use it in such a dysfunctional manner, that reacting naturally with care becomes enabling and feeding into the delusions and power control. If it works, then they keep doing it, over and over, to get their supply. It becomes some kind of addiction.

And no one around can see it, except the ones that were used relentlessly in that manner, and that had to learn the ins and outs of the behaviors to survive.

For both Methuen and you, I can see how they likely learned your boundaries and exploit them to remain in this victim state. The only thing they crave more than receiving unconditional "love" is drama, any boundaries for them is persecution.

[Methuen]

Interesting as she often gets herself into a situation where she's "victim" to my boundaries and has her feelings hurt. She keeps pushing at them until I have had enough of it and say no.

Exactly.  This is what they do.  It's a power play, and in the process, they set it up to fail (us saying no), so they can stay in victim mode.

They take seemingly natural things, like going to the hospital and expecting people to care (I mean, if I went to the hospital, I do expect my family would care enough to call/visit), but then flip it around and use it in such a dysfunctional manner, that reacting naturally with care becomes enabling and feeding into the delusions and power control. If it works, then they keep doing it, over and over, to get their supply. It becomes some kind of addiction.

And no one around can see it, except the ones that were used relentlessly in that manner, and that had to learn the ins and outs of the behaviors to survive.

For both Methuen and you, I can see how they likely learned your boundaries and exploit them to remain in this victim state. The only thing they crave more than receiving unconditional "love" is drama, any boundaries for them is persecution.

Oh Riv3rW0lf, you nailed it.

I believe my mom is at the waif stage where after a period of time, waif doesn't supply her enough, and a sudden health care crisis (fall, break, mini stroke, angina, dizziness, stomach crisis, blindness in one eye etc) gives her intense drama and the attention and greater supply she needs. It sounds awful I know.  She has so much wrong with her physically, but she is such a drama queen that it's sometimes impossible to know what is real from what is not.

I don't know what is sustaining her, except for her core value to be a "fighter"...  I do not want to live alone with chronic and serious multiple health problems like her.  I would rather be around people like me, and supports, even if they're not always perfect.

Ironically, since I have so much less contact with her than I used to (one visit every 1-2 weeks + texts in between), she is occasionally un-naturally nicer in her texts...even thanking me...which feels kind of disturbing... and makes me suspicious about "what she's up to"...or what she wants next...

But I did tell her about a year ago that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  Boy did that result in a tongue lashing rage back to me...but maybe a part of that message stuck, and she's trying it out to see if it will work for her?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Ironically, since I have so much less contact with her than I used to (one visit every 1-2 weeks + texts in between), she is un-naturally nicer in her texts...even thanking me...which feels kind of disturbing... and makes me suspicious about "what she's up to"...it's just not her...

But I did tell her about a year ago that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  Boy did that result in a tongue lashing rage back to me...but maybe a part of that message stuck, and she's trying it out to see if it will work for her?

Or it is the regular push/pull of BPD. The further away we get, the nicer they become, which triggers hope that things will change, and then when you get close again, they hit you even stronger because you "left them" before and they "can't trust you".

[Methuen]

Or it is the regular push/pull of BPD. The further away we get, the nicer they become, which triggers hope that things will change, and then when you get close again, they hit you even stronger because you "left them" before and they "can't trust you".

This probably.

[Notwendy]

But I did tell her about a year ago that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  Boy did that result in a tongue lashing rage back to me...but maybe a part of that message stuck, and she's trying it out to see if it will work for her?

Saying something like that would have sent my mother into a big rage.

The way I see it, is that, if my mother is being nice to me, she wants something. I won't know what that is, she'd not ever tell me directly.  It might not even be something I'd say no to, but the method is to keep me from knowing what she wants and get me to do it.

I feel uncomfortable when she's acting nice to me. It's as if it is a warning - there's probably a reason for this, and if I want for things to stay on calm terms, I need to comply.

[Couscous]

The way I see it, is that, if my mother is being nice to me, she wants something. I won't know what that is, she'd not ever tell me directly.  It might not even be something I'd say no to, but the method is to keep me from knowing what she wants and get me to do it.

This right here, the indirect communication, is one of the big reasons that it sucks to belong to a dysfunctional family.

Making a direct request of people is inherently risky — they could say no. This can trigger feelings of rejection, and I assume also feelings of shame. And if you say no, your mother will also experience separation anxiety, which could even trigger narcissistic rage, because you are demonstrating that you are a separate person. All of these reasons is why manipulation to get needs met is resorted to.

The best antidote to this is for you to point out this pattern to her, and for you to be direct with your mom about her indirectness, and you would appreciate if she would ask you directly for what she wants. You could even make a joke about how your ESP abilities aren’t working too well these days — maybe it’s because the 5G cellphone network is interfering with the signal.

[zachira]

Methuen,
I think you have got this, and will be able to deal with any future medical emergencies with your mother by knowing what boundaries to set.

[2of3]

Instead of a lockbox with a key have you thought about replacing the lock with a combination lock?  They are easy to install.  She could still use a key to come and go but you could give the code to emergency responders.  She might rage at you for doing it, but it doesn’t sound like she has the capcity to change the code