Holiday fallout and in need of commiseration

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone,
I’m reaching out because my family is having a little meltdown after a thawing of connections over the holidays. One of my siblings recently had a baby, and I decided it was a good time to reconnect. It’s still in a tender place with that sibling, but it feels pretty good so far—I think we’ve both grown up and solidified a bit in the last few years of keeping our distance.
The challenge arises from out BPD mom. We met up and our mom who I’ve been out of contact with for a few years came along (my sibling asked, I gave permission thinking I’ve done a lot of work and could handle it). She was well-behaved that day. A bit out of touch, but that’s not out of the ordinary. She made a couple attempts to rile me up—mentioning a package she’d sent a couple of years ago that included a list of things I’d done as a child to hurt her, for example. I didn’t take the bait and I felt pretty grounded afterward. I still do to some extent—or I did until today.
She’s sent a few texts, all about her health and I responded politely. I know her health scares her a lot, but one of the ways she’s controlled me over the years (all the way back to my early childhood) is by manufacturing health scares and threatening me with her death. She often used doctors and mental health professionals to take out her feelings of hurt about her life on me and my sibling. Once, she overdosed on a bunch of pills at a going away party for me rather than tell me she was sad I was leaving.
This used to be a super effective strategy because as a single mother, her death would have left me and my sibling alone in the world. She’d tell me at great length about one of her health scares (sometimes real, sometimes made up, sometimes self-manufactured) and I’d hang up the phone and crumple to the floor sobbing and hyperventilating for hours. I’m incapable of crying in front of her and it wouldn’t make a difference if I did.
If I didn’t respond right away to a text or email, she’d post about it on social media and tag me in the post so I would see it the moment I woke up in the morning. And so her followers could comment about what a bad person I am. I tried to tell her not to do this, tried to ask her to be a little more mindful and respect my (very reasonable) boundaries because social media is something I use for work, but she said I was being silly and selfish. This is one of the reasons I cut off contact with her.
In the last few years, I’ve done a lot of work to ground myself and understand my reactions to her (and to other people by extension). Now that kind of manipulation just doesn’t work on me anymore. I’ve mostly made my peace with the fact that she will never change, and that I can’t be the support she wants anymore than she could be the support I needed as a child.
Still, it saddens me to think she might die alone. She’s been pretty well behaved recently—no long passive aggressive emails or packages filled with rage—so I thought we could have a little contact and that might be enough for her. Of course I was wrong.
I learned this morning that she’s been lashing out on Facebook about not getting enough contact with her grandkid and us not talking to her. I assumed she’d been posting like this all along, but I had blocked her, so I didn’t know about it. Now and then, a family member would send a huffy message on her behalf, but I’ve long ago washed my hands of most of them, so it didn’t matter.
But now I know what she’s been writing. I know she’s going around calling me ungrateful and a narcissist and a b*** though she’s never once asked me why I haven’t been in touch or done anything to try to understand my point of view. She’s just lashed out again and again or sent memes about a mother’s sacrifice and a daughter’s duty. I mean, I assumed these things, but now I see it. And of course it’s riling me up, pulling me back into an old place. At least now I remember why I cut things off, right?
I don’t know if I need advice (although I’ll accept it), but I would love to know I’m not alone in experiencing fall out from holiday contact.

[etown]

Hello everyone,
I’m reaching out because my family is having a little meltdown after a thawing of connections over the holidays. One of my siblings recently had a baby, and I decided it was a good time to reconnect. It’s still in a tender place with that sibling, but it feels pretty good so far—I think we’ve both grown up and solidified a bit in the last few years of keeping our distance.
The challenge arises from out BPD mom. We met up and our mom who I’ve been out of contact with for a few years came along (my sibling asked, I gave permission thinking I’ve done a lot of work and could handle it). She was well-behaved that day. A bit out of touch, but that’s not out of the ordinary. She made a couple attempts to rile me up—mentioning a package she’d sent a couple of years ago that included a list of things I’d done as a child to hurt her, for example. I didn’t take the bait and I felt pretty grounded afterward. I still do to some extent—or I did until today.
She’s sent a few texts, all about her health and I responded politely. I know her health scares her a lot, but one of the ways she’s controlled me over the years (all the way back to my early childhood) is by manufacturing health scares and threatening me with her death. She often used doctors and mental health professionals to take out her feelings of hurt about her life on me and my sibling. Once, she overdosed on a bunch of pills at a going away party for me rather than tell me she was sad I was leaving.
This used to be a super effective strategy because as a single mother, her death would have left me and my sibling alone in the world. She’d tell me at great length about one of her health scares (sometimes real, sometimes made up, sometimes self-manufactured) and I’d hang up the phone and crumple to the floor sobbing and hyperventilating for hours. I’m incapable of crying in front of her and it wouldn’t make a difference if I did.
If I didn’t respond right away to a text or email, she’d post about it on social media and tag me in the post so I would see it the moment I woke up in the morning. And so her followers could comment about what a bad person I am. I tried to tell her not to do this, tried to ask her to be a little more mindful and respect my (very reasonable) boundaries because social media is something I use for work, but she said I was being silly and selfish. This is one of the reasons I cut off contact with her.
In the last few years, I’ve done a lot of work to ground myself and understand my reactions to her (and to other people by extension). Now that kind of manipulation just doesn’t work on me anymore. I’ve mostly made my peace with the fact that she will never change, and that I can’t be the support she wants anymore than she could be the support I needed as a child.
Still, it saddens me to think she might die alone. She’s been pretty well behaved recently—no long passive aggressive emails or packages filled with rage—so I thought we could have a little contact and that might be enough for her. Of course I was wrong.
I learned this morning that she’s been lashing out on Facebook about not getting enough contact with her grandkid and us not talking to her. I assumed she’d been posting like this all along, but I had blocked her, so I didn’t know about it. Now and then, a family member would send a huffy message on her behalf, but I’ve long ago washed my hands of most of them, so it didn’t matter.
But now I know what she’s been writing. I know she’s going around calling me ungrateful and a narcissist and a b*** though she’s never once asked me why I haven’t been in touch or done anything to try to understand my point of view. She’s just lashed out again and again or sent memes about a mother’s sacrifice and a daughter’s duty. I mean, I assumed these things, but now I see it. And of course it’s riling me up, pulling me back into an old place. At least now I remember why I cut things off, right?
I don’t know if I need advice (although I’ll accept it), but I would love to know I’m not alone in experiencing fall out from holiday contact.

[SaltyDawg]

I hear you, and send you a virtual hug.

It sounds tough, it sounds like your mother has not changed.  My pwBPD is my wife, and possibly my son too.

Even though it will likely fall on deaf ears, I would suggest writing a snail mail letter to her [no return address] articulating your boundaries in order to have a relationship with her and your child[ren] -- express how you feel using "I" statements, and try to limit the accusatory statements.  Also express you will go back to being no-contact if she continues to be mean on facebook and continues to complain bitterly.  Express how you would like not to be manipulated / controlled by her emotional abuse / blackmail - of course use much less threatening words; however, you will need to get the point across.

She will likely not do any of what you request; however, at least you will know that you did your part to try and reconnect, and if she passes away due to one of her imaged or real health scares, that you have done everything you could have to reconnect in a friendly non-dysfunctional way.  That way you can have a clear conscience if that happens.

In the unlikely even that she is doing what you request, then I would start with limited contact and see how that goes, which you obviously just tried, and are still having issues with that limited amount of contact.

Talk to your sibling, and your respective spouses/partners on this as well.

In any event, I am assuming that you have a therapist, I would recommend going over your feelings with them on your next visit with them as they can help you navigate this emotional minefield.  Also, before you follow my unprofessional suggestion, run it by your T.  This is something I would do, if I were in your shoes.  I have already done something similar for my wife, and it was only partially successful.

If you do want a relationship with her, make sure you set firm boundaries.  Also if you haven't already read the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad and apply the tools in there if you choose to remain in contact.

Good luck and take care.

[Turkish]

But now I know what she’s been writing. I know she’s going around calling me ungrateful and a narcissist and a b***

She wrote this on Facebook or social media? 

[Couscous]

You are so not alone.  

It really sucks that your sibling had to act as your mother’s agent by inviting her — not cool at all.

On Christimas Day I spoke very briefly with my mother and few siblings with whom I have been borderline no contact, via video chat, and the emotional hangover and insomnia lasted almost two weeks. I thought I could handle it too…

I am going to try limiting contact to mailed cards this year instead, and see how that goes.

[Outdorenthusiast]

You are not alone!   

Regrettably BPD - No contact is the way to stay for your health.  My W went no contact with both her parents (mom did similar things as you describe/ father was equally messed up.).  You can’t control them, nor explain them,.  They don’t operate by the same rules as the rest of society, and they won’t change.  If untreated and alone - I saw them both get worse.

The hard truth is my W had to process the loss and “pseudo-death” of her father and mother and go through a grieving process to live her life and move on.  1 year after she was unfathomed by either of them anymore and what they did/didn’t do wasn’t affecting her.   Maybe grieving the loss may help.  Definitely don’t engage - when you cut her off, it starves the oxygen to her flame and the noise will die down, or you will be blissfully deaf to it.

As to friends/relatives on Facebook- don’t let her “flying monkeys” rattle you.  Stay to your truth and real friends will hear your story and support you.  You aren’t the only child with parent issues (let alone BPD issues) and friends will understand.

Huge hugs - you aren’t alone.

[Riv3rW0lf]

But now I know what she’s been writing. I know she’s going around calling me ungrateful and a narcissist and a b*** though she’s never once asked me why I haven’t been in touch or done anything to try to understand my point of view. She’s just lashed out again and again or sent memes about a mother’s sacrifice and a daughter’s duty. I mean, I assumed these things, but now I see it. And of course it’s riling me up, pulling me back into an old place. At least now I remember why I cut things off, right?

Ho wow ! My BPD mother never went as far as calling me a b**** on social medias, but then she doesn't really like social medias... She did put a lot of memes like the ones you describe though. I remember one in particular where it said something along the lines of : "after you gave your all to them, raised them, loved them when they were young and vulnerable, it's the children's turn to take care of their aging parents the same way parents did". And I remember thinking : " are you sure you want me to treat you the way you treated me when I was young and vulnerable?  "

I mean... The level of hypocrisy they can show is terrible, and no wonder this is riling you up. Did you add her again on social media? How do you now see what she posts?

Depending if you want to go no contact or low contact, you could have her blocked on social media and still maintain very low contact in real life, as long as she doesn't down right abuse you in your face. Like you mentioned, it isn't a surprise that she talks behind your back and tries to wedge people against you. Nothing will change that.

I also suspect that the moment we "abandon" them once, there is no coming back, we are on the black list of people they cannot trust, and while they might be gentle in our face, they will lash out in our back, and spread rumors... My BPD mother did this with my brother who cut contact with her for two years. She has never forgiven him, never understood him and never tried to either.

So... I think it might again be a case of radical acceptance and of not exposing you to her and what she says more than you have to. You can certainly go complete no contact again, alternatively, since you have grown and have better boundaries, you could also find ways to not see what she writes about you and keep living your life. As long as she is polite and doesn't abuse you in person, then maybe you can manage (if you wish to).

 She will always be looking for reactions, for drama. While our work is to manage our triggers as best we can to remain calm and centered.

You are doing great. I certainly am impressed that you were able to see her in person and remained grounded ! You keep being you...  

[Notwendy]

In my own experience, I would not communicate with her in writing at all. My BPD mother saves everything- from the letters I wrote in college to any emails I sent my father ( she had access to his emails ) and she made her own interpretation out of them. (negative about me). She isn't on Facebook but if she was, I'd be concerned that anything she had in writing would become part of her posts.

Mostly, trying to rationally discuss any issues with her just doesn't work. She doesn't connect her behavior to reactions from other people. She sees herself in victim mode.

Early on when I was trying to set boundaries with her, I made the mistake of emailing some to my father. They were not unreasonable or even intended to be hurtful. The topic was that, I tried to step in and help when my father was ill. I suggested that my name be put on one of their checking accounts in case of emergency so that I'd be able to help them with paying bills and such. They have plenty of money, so it made sense that they would cover their own expenses. I don't want that money and take pride in that I would have managed this ethically. So when BPD mother started to tell people that I forced her to go to the bank and get access to their money, it gave the impression that I was up to no good.

I realized that, if my parents didn't trust me enough to give me access, I should not have it. So I emailed my father to tell him to please find someone else that he did trust as it could not be me.

Well, BPD mother printed that, saved it, and would pull it out to show me that I disappointed my father. This became her "proof" that I was not supportive of them.

To me, there's only one reason to communicate boundaries or any grievances with a BPD parent ( or spouse ) and that is - if you have any hope it would work because you are holding on to some hope they'd understand and the relationship will improve. For me, having tried this many times, I have learned that it doesn't do any good and more likely will get twisted.

Still, this is a parent. I think we always hold out some hope for connection with a parent. So I understand why you tried and it's possible you may try again. But when I saw that my mother had printed and saved all emails to my Dad, that I hoped were between the two of us, I realized that not only is it not effective to communicate in writing, it's going to be twisted and taken out of context. So my advice is to not send your mother anything in writing, from my own experience.

[etown]

Thank you for the commiserations everyone. I know I need to step away and not ruminate on this. It’s not like it’s really new. It’s just the level of the rhetoric that came as kind of a shock. Seeing her list all these totally normal childhood foibles (didn’t help her with the housework, didn’t have a job all through high school) as though they were these huge failings. And then to look at my comments and see my aunts and her other friends calling us spoiled and cruel (one called us “scum”). Consciously, I know I’m not any of the things they’re saying about me, but there’s still this small child inside me for whom this is a nightmare come true. Knowing I’m hated by so many people who should love me.
I really try to think of her with as much empathy as possible—I know she’s had a hard life and that her behaviour is based in trauma. I know she lacks the emotional maturity to approach any of this with kindness. But I also feel like a fool for opening the door to all this again.
And now I see she’s trying to rally people on social media basically to bully my sibling’s partner into giving her more access to their baby, which is so messed up (they’re being v careful because of the pandemic, which is totally reasonable). This isn’t the first time she’s engaged in online bullying, but it’s definitely a whole other level. And I’m thinking, should I try to intervene? Would expressing support for my sibling just pull me back into all that? And in this way, she continues to interfere with that relationship too, to isolate us from each other.
I want to have a family. I want to express love and kindness to the people I’m related to, but every time I open up, I get drawn back into this. It’s so frustrating.

[etown]

Oh, I should say part of this is my own foolishness—I’ve had her blocked on facebook for ages, but when my sibling reached out, I unblocked her out of morbid curiosity. And now I’m stuck with her unblocked for 48 hours like a fool. Ugh.

[zachira]

You are not alone in trying to maintain some level of contact with family while having a BPD mother involved. It is so challenging not to become overwhelmed by being mistreated when all you have done is set healthy boundaries for your wellbeing. My best advice is to learn all you can about flying monkeys and how to deal with them. It has been hard for me to cut contact with my disordered family members because of legal and financial obligations, and also because I do want the contact with some family members like you do with your sibling. We are here to listen and help in any ways we can.

[So Stressed]

Oh wow!  I relate to so much of this...in particular, my Mom has a laundry list of things that I supposedly did "to her" as a child, and she brings them up fairly regularly and demands that I apologize.  I have reviewed some of these so-called "crimes' that I did "to her" with my therapist, who pretty much said that these are normal things that kids do and parents deal with, but according to Mom, I was such a problem...like, they adopted my dog once because I got a big dog and it didn't fit too well in my apartment, and they didn't like a boyfriend I had, who was not a criminal or anything bad, Mom just didn't like him.  These and similar things became life long hurts to my mother, and she is still expecting apologies.  I have learned that to apologize to my Mom for things like this just gives her additional ammunition when she gets angry because then she can say that I even agreed and apologized. Now, if I have to apologize for something (like losing my temper when I get baited), I just say that I am sorry for my part in it. 

I also related to the comment about a Mom who sacrificed everything for her children and now it is their turn to look after her. That is my Mom's point of view also.  Several years ago, I heard her say about my cousins that they "owed" their mother (my aunt) and they weren't taking proper care of her.  So, I knew for a long time that her expectation was that we would take care of her.

It is hard not to be really angry at such a difficult Mom, but I do love her and I keep trying to make it work. I guess I have not had the proper tools before, and I am learning a lot from this site about tough love, boundaries, compassion, empathy, etc. Before, I just felt so sorry for her because she was such a victim and a martyr and she does have a pretty sad story from her childhood...at least if it is the truth, it is pretty sad.  We were so enmeshed and I tried when I was younger to be the perfect child and never disobey or to do what I perceived that she wanted. But, then after I finished school and left home, I started to live my own life and moved far away.  Now, living closer to her over the last few years has really opened my eyes.  I got to see how she blew up another family when she moved in with a new partner after Dad passed away, and after that was done, she has directed her anger at me. 

[Couscous]

If you weren’t doing chores as a child that would have actually been your mother’s fault, and not yours.

As for the lack of job as a teenager, was your family struggling financially and  couldn’t actually afford to pay for your basic needs, and then when your mother requested that you help contribute you refused; or did you have very expensive tastes and demand name-brand clothing etc.?

[Riv3rW0lf]

And then to look at my comments and see my aunts and her other friends calling us spoiled and cruel (one called us “scum”).

Goodness... That must have actually hurt more than reading your mother's words?.. We kinda expect this from our BPD mother, but the flying monkeys... It can feel like it somehow give more weight to the accusations, even though it doesn't. Only disordered people would actually comment these kind of things on social medias. But we somehow give as much weight to those comments as we would give to someone we know and respect... But they are not people that know you, and they don't merit your respect from what I am reading... They don't merit your time, their words don't merit you even considering them.

Sorry you are being scapegoated like that...

[etown]

As for the lack of job as a teenager, was your family struggling financially and  couldn’t actually afford to pay for your basic needs, and then when your mother requested that you help contribute you refused; or did you have very expensive tastes and demand name-brand clothing etc.?

It's really neither here nor there, but I actually did have a bunch of jobs as a child and teen. I delivered newspapers, worked at a fast food shop, did this whole employment training program one summer and worked as a TA for kid's drama classes in exchange for classes for myself. She just doesn't seem to remember any of that.
But I think it's a trap to try to refute or engage with any of the content of her complaints. Even if everything she says were 100% true, I was still a child through all of it. I left home at 18 and have been financially independent from her since. She sort of engineered it that way.
And I honestly don't blame her for being poor. There were things I couldn't have growing up and, like any kid, I found that frustrating. But not in any way that's worth remarking on 25 or more years later. I was just a kid.

Sorry you are being scapegoated like that... Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

  Thank you. It feels like they're feeding each other's sense of rage. It's so unhealthy.

[Couscous]

Even if everything she says were 100% true, I was still a child through all of it.

There were things I couldn't have growing up and, like any kid, I found that frustrating. But not in any way that's worth remarking on 25 or more years later. I was just a kid.

This is exactly my point.  And even if say, for the sake of argument, you were an exceptionally demanding child with a very difficult temperament, which it does not sound like you were, this would still not have have meant that you were a bad kid.

I have heard of a prominent a family therapist who refused to see children because he believed that children do not have problems; parents do. So even though our mothers love to claim that we were a “problem child”, it was actually they who were a problem parent.

But the bigger issue to me is that your entire family and your mother’s circle of friends sound absolutely toxic. I really don’t think you have anything to work with. I know that the temptation is very strong to go back to the poisoned well, but drinking from it using a new cup is not going to magically purify the water.

It sounds like your instincts are telling you that it may be dangerous to get involved in your sibling’s situation, (and I know how strong the pull must be especially with a new baby involved) but I encourage you to heed those instincts. But if you must give it one last try, (I did this myself about 6 months ago to help one of my sisters deal with some abusive behavior from another sibling — who was in fact, perfectly capable of looking out for herself — and I got absolutely clobbered), just be prepared for the possibility of things ending badly. If you need more social support, see if you can join a support group or attend 12 Step meetings. Wishing you much strength and courage. 

[Notwendy]

It is hurtful when we are painted black to other relatives.

BPD mother has a collection of stories about me as a kid. Apparently I "ignored" her as a baby. ( I was probably sleeping like most babies do) and I threw up on her carpet on purpose as a toddler (normal explanation for a toddler would be a stomach bug) and didn't share my cookie with a sibling at age 6 ( what 6 year old gives their cookie away?)

I think it's clear that they can make meaning out of normal child behavior and events. Also kids do push their limits sometimes, and that is normal too- it may require discipline but it's not the child doing something intentionally to their parent. This kind of thinking reflects "Victim" perspective.

Still, it's hurtful and frustrating when good intentions are somehow perceived as otherwise.

[etown]

But the bigger issue to me is that your entire family and your mother’s circle of friends sound absolutely toxic. I really don’t think you have anything to work with. I know that the temptation is very strong to go back to the poisoned well, but drinking from it using a new cup is not going to magically purify the water.

You make a really good point, Couscous. The internet has allowed her to gather a group of people who have the same boundary issues as she does, who see no problem in the way she writes about her children or grandchild. I think she gets more out of her interaction with them than she ever would from me. This is why she didn’t post at all about our pleasant lunch as a family but instead about her feelings of hurt and abandonment at not having TOTAL access. And if she had that, it would be something else that she’ll manufacture for attention. Thank you for reminding me of that.

BPD mother has a collection of stories about me as a kid. Apparently I "ignored" her as a baby. ( I was probably sleeping like most babies do) and I threw up on her carpet on purpose as a toddler (normal explanation for a toddler would be a stomach bug) and didn't share my cookie with a sibling at age 6 ( what 6 year old gives their cookie away?)

This is so familiar, Notwendy. My mom has always spoken about things I did as a baby as though they were things I did to her or for her. She still hasn’t fully forgiven me for asking to stop nursing at a year and a half old. And the list of charges she has against my sibling are far longer and more bizarre because for a long time, I was the perfect kid and my sibling was the monster. It took me ages to figure out why this bothered me, but eventually I realized it made me feel like I only existed in relation to her, that everything I did or said only mattered in the extent to which it made her feel good or bad and I had a really hard time understanding who I was outside of that. I was handed all this responsibility for her feelings and no one took responsibility for mine.
And she’s still trying to play that game though she has so little access to me. It’s sad. 

[Mommydoc]

I really try to think of her with as much empathy as possible—I know she’s had a hard life and that her behaviour is based in trauma. I know she lacks the emotional maturity to approach any of this with kindness. But I also feel like a fool for opening the door to all this again.

Your mother is abusive and you are kind.  I love that you still have empathy for her.  You opened the door for her again, because you are kind and you are hopeful.  She predictably reminded you of how toxic and abusive she is. 

I was handed all this responsibility for her feelings and no one took responsibility for mine. And she’s still trying to play that game though she has so little access to me. It’s sad.

That is a great distillation of what it is like to be rs a family member with BPD.  It is sad, but you are not alone. We have all experienced what you are experiencing.  It is very sad.  In your case, I strongly encourage you to go back to NC.