I seriously need some help.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

How do you feel about her sharing all of these details about her Beau with you in such detail?

[Turkish]

How do you feel about her sharing all of these details about her Beau with you in such detail?

[engiebpd]

The verbal, emotional abuse and contempt on top of everything is enough to get to detach.   It is annoying in some ways to hear these things but I feel like I'm getting better overall as each week passes.

It's possible that I may be just convincing myself of this because I have been having dreams of her old self a lot lately.   So maybe unconsciously, I may not be fully detached?

In many ways, I am also hearing these things for Intel purposes.    We still have two more steps in our mediation process.  I think when all complete, I'll ask her not to talk to me about her guy problems anymore.

What's insane is that the guys phone this week is "turned off".   From my perspective, he's just love bombing her to pull her back to possibly have sex with to then go dark the following week.  Its happened multiple times like this and she is not catching on.  It's crazy how she rationalizes his behavior into positivity.

This is clear classic idealization when a bpd sees only all good and none of the red flags.  She says "wow this guy is just so busy".   Then today, she says "this guy loves me so much, he's playing games to make sure i love him"   <----- can you believe this thought process.   Unbelievable

But overall Turkish, I am mainly thinking for my boy and I have to make sure I do this right.    And if it takes some pain in the process, I'll be willing to walk through that fire.    I imagine myself in a kind of prison, where I must behave for a certain time period (october or after the judgement is signed).

[Turkish]

In many ways, I am also hearing these things for Intel purposes.

Yeah, that was my thinking at the time. She once told me that he had noticed her anger over something (likely inconsequential to him) and he asked her about it. I thought  he's in for quite a ride!

A couple of years later, I actually felt sorry for him.

[engiebpd]

Turkish, you're talking about your existence affair partner or current relationship?

It's so crazy how I am seeing  extreme bpd thought behaviors from her against her new guy.  She told me she wanted to slash his tires.  My eyes lit up.   Because I am good person as she says sometimes (it's like she 2 persons) somehow deep down inside I think she wouldn't do that to me.

She also said she wanted to stalk him etc. 

Speaking of which, I understand bpd but is it possible they can have 2 person personality.   I sometimes think that when I remind her what awful thing she said to me she would say "when I say those things, just don't take it so personally" - which i started doing awhile ago.

I'm going to look into multiple personalities.  I do understand the mr jekyll Hyde analogy I keep running into when researching bpd.

BTW I booked a session with a therapist that is expert in these cases.   This will be for my 1on1.  Hopefully she can help me understand things.

[Turkish]

BPD isn't MPD, though pwBPD tend to have dis-intregrated personalities. My ex married the guy she left me for, eventually divorcing him when he didn't live up to her fantisization of him. She was 31 and he was a 21yo college football jock with narc tendencies. Of course he wasn't going to meet her expectations as a provider or guru/leader! Poor kid...

In retrospect, our relationship was like an even numbered star trek movie: better than the odd numbered ones. Both relationships either sides of ours involved courts, restraining orders, cops, and domestic violence. Though she did exhibit some DV tendencies.

She's now 41. May the odds ever be in favor for the next poor 

So let's share a Scooby-Snack given our maturity to avoid the worst. It sux now, but you'll get through this and hopefully have an effective coparenting r/s in the future.

[engiebpd]

Thanks Turkish, I am in the midst of it and trying to survive this.

Had my session today with Dr T from YouTube.  She says being in this situation until October can implode at some point.   I am unsure.  I'm hazy because sometimes the ex wife is being super nice but then when something triggers her, she is raging and goes off saying randomly terrible things at me and rushes out the door

It's really hard as I an trying to be amicable and hoping for everything to play out on that road but the rage and abusive words makes me think twice.   It's so back and forth.  I'm at confusion here.

For example this morning she raged at a disagreement when I said "what?" At something she said I would pay for when I clearly never did.    It's an amusement park where I've already paid the deposit when we were together but I made it clear I'm not paying for it monthly.  She said "you said you'd pay for it".  I'm like "what? No I didnt".  Then she went raging and complaining and then mouth off "I f***ing can't wait until I move out of here, your voice is so annoying when you said "what?".   Then she mocks my voice (level of contempt)  Then takes off to work..  I was silent the entire time.

Just now she comes home from work, 9 hours lateer.  Shes all super nice to me.  Saying some nice things and comes into my room leaving me no choice but to hear about her day about what guys are doing for her to have her in their presence.  They apparently wanted her to go to dinner but she decided to go home instead.   Anyway, I listened and was nice.  Then she says "it's always good to hear your thoughts, you're really level headed".  I'm like "thanks I appreciate that ... anyway I'm going to bed".

Then she says "you know what, why don't we get another apartment and still stay together passed October, it'll be so much cheaper for the both of us.  We will be roommates and we can agree to both bring girls and guys over.  I said "no that'll be too much on me if you bring a guy over while I'm in the other room and the baby in another room"  Just pay the higher rent for a single bedroom and you get your freedom, you can have guys over when I have the baby on my days"

Can you friggen believe what she just asked me?  It's obvious she has a great life with me being here (having her cake and eating it too) and handling all the extra baby duties when she throws him on me.  I cannot believe the lack of empathy of even asking me that kind of question.  BTW she asked me to watch the baby when she's at Coachella one weekend in a few weeks (damn such nice life she's having in this circumstance)

 

[engiebpd]

I have to admit, it's pretty tough dealing with this type of person and be forced to live with her.    Every other day, she will try to hurl some form of insult at me.   Whether it's my intelligence or my manhood.   I'm generally a pretty intelligent person as well as I have succeeded in many things that are quite difficult.  I'm not some dummy loser.   

I've applied Grey Rock very well and it feels like she keeps trying to push harder to try to get a reaction out of me.   The good news is that Grey rock does work as it does limit conflict but it does something to her because she tried to say things to keep pushing me to get heated up.   I won't even get heated up and then she will continuously say I am being angry and that "I am acting crazy".   

I literally have some interactions recorded and I play it back and I hear myself in the same normal tone and she would say "omg look at you being all angry", "you take name callings soo personally".   It is very weird.  While I did manage to maintain this situation for a couple months, it feels like she just wants to try to push me further and further.   

The other day I got it out of her as to why she keeps saying my voice is like a girl, and that I am soo "feminine as a man".   I asked her why do you say these things when I am doing my best to avoid conflict.   She says "because it gets to you, i am trying to poke the bear".   

Unbelievable.   I bit and told her that a real man, takes care of his baby...your baby and makes sure he is responsible".  She says you take it so personally, it's funny.   I'm like "I'm not taking it personally, your words are irrelevant"  she's all "good, I'm making you stronger, into a real man".    Lol.   Omg.  This illness is so real.

She was literally never like this before when I was with her for 8 years.  I have no idea what happened to this woman that I knew.   I can't believe someone can go through so much changes in their 30s.

She's like trying to cut  my balls off.   I Grey rock to all her insults and she just goes as far as she can.

I had 2 therapy sessions with a specialist in this area that ive been watching on youtube and she was very blunt and not nice as to the things she was saying about my ex.  I told her about my October date living with this woman until lease ends and her words were something like "that is a gosh long damn ages, this will implode"   

At the time she told me this, I was fairly optimistic that it can be done, but the last 3-5 days has shown me how correct this therapist can be.  I've essentially been handling this by avoiding being around her for longer than 20 mins, rejecting all her attempts to pull me to hang out with her and our son. 

But the moments where I cave and was "forced to" be with her longer are when I am trying to get the baby ready for school and she's in the living room with me.  I obviously can't just walk away as I have to try to get the baby to school.

Last weekend she convinced me to wagon walk our baby to get a haircut near our apartment.  I was like okay.  Within that short 1.5 hour time frame, she would be nice but eventually tries to get to my nerves about something.

I keep reminding her that it is these conflicts that makes me not want to spend any time with her.  I told our marriage counselor that we have been getting along mainly because I avoid her at all costs.  But it's impossible when there are times I am forced to be in a long car ride with her.   

Then there are moments where the baby will be in my room and she would jump on my bed to cuddle the baby and I'm there.   She would eventually say things that would lead me to tell her to get out of my bedroom.

I feel like of all the victims in this similar situation, I am handling it fairly well due to my continuous reading and falling asleep to podcasts about bpd, narcissist etc.    But even then, I still get pushed to a certain place.   

I feel like the more I am able to maintain composure the more she tries harder and harder.  Then later apolgoize and be nice for some time only to get me off guard and the bam, hits me with some form of emasculating comment when I I am drained

I am now really dreading the lengthy October date but feel like I must do it for the baby. 

[ForeverDad]

Yes, the callous boundary pushing is relentless.  One common attack vector is your manhood and disparagement as effeminate.  I lived with that too as my marriage was aimed for the rocks.  You can't risk a single outburst in frustration or it will be held over your head for forever.

I too suspect there will be some sort of implosion incident before autumn.  As that time nears she will ramp it up even more.  Don't let it catch you off guard and unprepared.

[engiebpd]

I am confused.  It's like she knows how to get me to really care about her and be her emotional support.  Due to our recent argument where she was calling me names and saying I have a voice like a girl (then starts imitating me in exaggeration with a pathetic girl voice), and then when I respond slightly saying that your words don't affect me and these are all just your opinion.

She'll say something back like "you get sooo butt hurt when someone calling you names...its so funny".  Walks off smiling..

I pretty much had enough and told her that my family hates the things you say to me etc. Then she says I don't get affected by these at all and walks around all proud saying she got to me.

Now here's the weird part. She'll text me saying I can't believe how "angry you get and you yell at me".  She calls me up some time later and says "should we do an emergency therapy session, do you need it".  I said, no we have a session next week and I am okay.  Let's just stay away from eachother for awhile and just coil down.    She texts saying " okay I need YOU to be calm and balanced, you are the man in this house and when you are calm and balanced, it makes me calm"

Then I say fine, I'm over it let's just stay away from eachother.   She says okay.  

So I go 2-3 days avoiding her (I'm actually working most of the time and don't even pick up her phone call)   Today, she texts me and ask me if I want to go have lunch with her, I say no.  She says she will pay.  I say I'm working

Then afternoon, she picks up the baby from school as I'm at at work, she calls me and says "Pls just listen to me...i should move out.    This relationship is too toxic for me and it's affecting me.  I am on my medications and I have a huge headache, I can't be having you call me names ALL THE TIME, it really hurts me, im struggling with the baby, struggling at work, this is too much for me, I can't believe your family hates me...I am so hurt"   Then I said "I don't call you names".  And she says "you're suppose to listen to what I have to say and be there for me!  Not talk about you" Then hangs up...

10 mins later, she calls " look I am depressed by our last conflict, I want you to come home and give me a hug, please I really need it.  I need everything to be okay, you hurt me so much the other night"   I'm like "we should be staying away from eachother not get closer especially if i am supposedly hurting your feelings when we talk"

She says "please just come home and give me a hug, I have nobody to talk to, nobody!  My mental health is deteriorating and I am suppose to leave for a trip in an hour.    I am your baby's momma and YOU need to be there for me."

I told her I was going to stay out and I think it's just best I am away from home until you leave.  She ends up demanding me to get home so I can help the baby and that she really needs a hug.

I'm like okay fine blah blah.  I go home give her a hug and she behaves extremely nice again and apologizes for the emasculating comments and that she will try her best not to do it again.   She cooks dinner and we help around the baby and she leaves for her trip that she genuinely doesn't want to go but was excited up until now.  But realized she was going to miss the baby.  This is the popular music festival she's going to.

Now here's my problem here... WTF is going on?  Am I talking to two persons?    The conflict the other night she was so bold and was tearing me apart and today she is like super nice soft and exactly how I would want her to be as a coparent in front of our baby.  

When she made the first call saying that she wanted to move out and how I have been hurting her- I literally started calling some friends and family because I was paranoid that she was going to set up something badly.  I was considering bringing a friend or family member withme.   She calls back and she somehow convinces me that she "really" just needs me to give her a hug and it'll make her feel better.

This is stupidly confusing as heck guys.  When I was dealing with conflict version of her she was so brutal and mean and unaffected by the conflict. Then days later she's mentally distraught from it?

What exactly am I dealing with here?  This is just so bogus.    The nice version of her , i feel like I can have a successful coparenting with her, I feel like our divorce will be truly amicable and think that we will be great friends throughout this process.

But when I see her bold and brutal version, I immediately have my guard up, I don't want to see her for days and I am worried about false domestic abuse calls, and I pretty much have feelings of hatred towards her, and I worry this is not going to work out.  I get anxiety of what's to come.

Then in matters of 2 hours of interacting with her nice version, I feel okay again.

OK I know I typed a lot but I guess I'm just trying to understand this because it is soo confusing.   I would feel sorry for her, then I would despise her, then sorry for her, then despise her.

This back and forth has been messing me up guys.  

[Turkish]

She's projecting her behaviors onto you, not to mention being extremely emotionally immature.

[cranmango]

Agree with Turkish. It sounds like she is very confused and experiencing emotional volatility. And she’s projecting that onto you.

As my T would say, “the pieces don’t fit together.”

[ForeverDad]

My ex had a father issue.  I didn't realize how much until I looked back at it all.  Her father wasn't in her life.  When she was a preschooler her SF came into her family's life.  This nighttime abuser really messed up her and her sister.  I came along riding my white horse and shiny armor.  We married but soon I realized she was damaged.  Over the years things gradually became more difficult.  More inexplicable rants and rages that left me flummoxed.  But most problems were her increasing conflicts with others.

After we were married a decade I got the cluelessly brilliant but disastrous idea she'd be happy to have a baby with whom she could discover the joys of life.  Ouch.  I had no idea of a truism often mentioned here:  Having a child does not fix a serious mental dysfunction.

Unfortunately, when I became a father that shifted how she viewed me, I was no longer the spouse she'd been married to for over a decade.  As I father I was then compared to her experience of being fathered... by an abuser.  There was no way to address how badly life then went downhill toward disaster.

That's my own marriage's background.  What happened next is what I'm seeing with you.

In the final years the discord increased.  In the final months her derogatory insinuations increased.  The pushing never let up, well, until the marriage imploded.

In those last months I noticed how she could start the day by promising intimacy that night, but during the day she would sabotage my feelings so badly that either she would reject me or I couldn't bear to have intimacy with her.  Over and over this happened.  Every few weeks we'd finally have intimacy but it was soured with all the disparagement in between.  Oh yes, that I wasn't a man, I was effeminate, she wore the pants, etc.  She knew how to hurt me.  It was sheer torture and I was the dog under the table begging for scraps.

I see your spouse is making insinuations, claiming you behaved badly when you didn't.  I saw that too in my marriage.  The disparagement.  The sneers, then lovey then sneers again.  The relentless back and forth, a sickening roller coaster carsick.  Yet I stayed on and never got off whenever the car came into the station.  Frankly, this will end badly.  You're in the middle of it all so of course you can't let yourself give up or take and exit when you're least in danger.

My now-ex over time emboldened herself, convinced herself that I was the worst person ever.  The reality was that I was the closest person ever but that's BPD - the worst behaviors are most evident - and most dumped on - to the closest person.  You.  Me.  And so many others here.

Her claims about how bad you are seem powerless now, even crazy making.  But what if she saves all those messages about how very bad and heartless you are?  Then when the marriage really does break down and she starts filing allegation after allegation, then where will you stand?

I'm not saying she will, but it's a very real risk.  I've been there, done that.  I lost count of the allegations my ex made.  Sure, 10 to 15 years have passed and my kid is grown now, but for years it was torture.  Courts and agencies don't know either of you but they are tasked with presuming an allegation might be true.  And they might not scrutinize her the claimed victim, they will be focused on you the claimed perp.

I know I'm being blunt but I don't know how else to express myself.  I was where you are.  The appeasing, the micro-management, nothing works very long, sadly.  On the bright side, it is good you're looking after yourself and have support.  Protect yourself.  Don't let her egg you into a frustrated overreaction she can capitalize on.

[engiebpd]

Forever dad,

I think her family may have thought the same.   That if she got married and had a baby, she would change.  I think they knew something is completely off about her especially her grandma who raised her.   Problem is, grandma speaks a different language from me and doesn't know English so we can never communicate.  Whenever we had family get together, she was always worried about me and they always ask me "is everything okay".   My ex would get a little upset because she feels they are on my side over her.   But I guess they pegged me as a competent person that is a good person.    

For some reason I always thought something was a little off with her family when we were serious in the beginning couple years and preparing to get married.   But I thought that may be they didn't think she was a smart person and that they may be worried because they pegged me as a smart person.   I thought this was the case but "was in love" and had the naive assumption that if a wife allowed me to make the decisions in life, she would find success.

And it lead to her having more $ than she ever had.

Once I clamped down on those monthly expenses, it immediately changed her.    She is incapable of making small lifestyle adjustments just for a better future +  we now have a baby and things have to change like less going out. She didn't like those changes.  Still wanted to go eat at high end restaurants even when we have a toddler that tantrums in the restaurants.   So I remember telling her, let's not go out and eat anymore, it's too exhausting and she was a bit upset.


Anyhow, my point is that I was confident to "carry" I guess you can say rescue - which is bad of what I did unknowingly.  I figured I can get us there financially if she is just a good mom- which she can be when present but not when she gets selfish and neglectful.

She is literally unaware that SHE even gets tired from handling the baby and doesn't realize that affects us both and is the reason why we've toned down from our outgoing ventures from when we didn't have a baby.

She is not a smart person, and I knew and was fine with that.  But she was meticulous with baby stuff and things she's into at the moment.  But I learned she gets bored fast.   I got her a poodle which she adored so much, took a ton of pictures of the puppy and we took him on trips and she would love him so much.   But once he grew and became tough to handle (which isn't that tough, he just needed to be walked but was stronger so its a struggle for her), she now wants me to have him after we split .   I wonder if this is a sign of things to come when our toddler grows up.   She's already neglecting him.


But he is still so very cute so when she has him she does a lot with him.   But then throws him off to me on days she's supposed to care for him.   She'll book nail appts at times she's suppose to pick him up and then asks me if I can do it.  My family and elderly people believe she is eventually going to ditch our son one day because she has shown a lot of selfish tendencies.  

We have an annual pass to Disney and she took him once because I refuse to go with her.   He's much to handle for her alone so I think it's dreadful for her.  She keeps wantIng me to go with her.  I've been taking him every week because I know how to handle him and understand his moods since I am with him so much.

Ever since we split, she has barely taken him out for fun.  Her fun at the moment is cooking cupcakes with him at home.  

But thank you, I've put some thought into what you said about possible bad situations and allegations in the future.  I know I need to keep my guard up 110%, but honestly I get thrown off when she behaves well - but it is a HIGH possibility that she knows how to be to get me to let my guard down.  

Also Turkish,

Thank you for reminding me that she's projecting onto me.   She said some things that I felt like I've been wanting to say to her forever.   I felt like she could read my mind.  I did mention this to her in the past and told her that "as friends and coparent of our boy, I am your best friend, you know that genuine, and I want the best for both of us for our baby.   We don't ever want to be adversaries.  We need to do our best to be a team even though we are not lovers"

She said something similar to this after I gave her the hug.  She said I "came onto her so hard, and it hurt her feelings that she literally thought our friendship agreement was deterioting".   She wanted a hug to "believe everything is still okay".   Omg this is so childish imo.  I feel like I'm going to have to be her emotional support forever or else something bad may happen.  I can't imagine if in the future, I just don't pick up her call for 2 weeks or a month, or if and when I find a new partner.  I know she wants to be single but a part of me thinks that she is asssuming I'll be like this forever for her due to our shared baby in the middle.

She knows I'm genuine deep down  inside, that is also the reason why she previously 110% entrusted me with our assets.

[engiebpd]

She's planting the seed to h**ver.    I can see it thanks to you all that are guiding me.  I appreciate a ton.

Update:  she's been delaying on financial portion of the mediation still to this day.  Our mediator has been prompting her to do it.  

She has been peaceful since our last coparenting session (former marriage counselor turned coparent counseling now).  I raised the issue of her consistently making fun of my voice and saying I'm not a man.   Somehow she has stopped doing that for the last 2-3 weeks and our household has now been peaceful...so far.   Peaceful mainly because I picked up a an easy government job that my family recommended me to do in order to get out of the apt and be away from her.  I can see how therapeutic working can be even though it is a position I wouldn't normally take but I just need to be doing something else and meeting new people.  

It does feel like a different world.   Anyhow.   Since I've been briefly talking to her and handling most of the baby duties.  Avoiding going out with her and only taking the toddler out when I am with him.   Here's how she's h**vering me already before we even move out.

We may be getting a 1 bedroom apartment separately in the same complex.  We spoke to the leasing manager and they said we can leave our 3 bedroom early if we move into their units.   For some reason I find that this may work out since i can exit begore October.  

So now she's searching at 1 bedrooms here and is actually happy at moving out because she will get her "own" bigger space.  I'm obviously okay with this as our 3 year old toddlers school is nearby and it may be easier.

I did tell her we need to first and foremost finish our mediation paperwork process before we move out.  She says "okay".  But I don't know where it stands at the moment.  

While "dreaming" of living separately in the same complex and she can have guys over at her place.  She would say stuff like "I can do a lot of things when you're with the baby and I'm by myself, like cleaning etc.  But it'll be nice if I can come over to your place when I need to see another human being".   What do I say to this guys?

Mother's day*   she texted me saying we should always celebrate mothers day and fathers day for the baby.   She's all "I want earrings".  I said no, I can't afford that... and that I had no plans for mothers day but I guess  ill think about it.    

I did some research online and the general belief is that we should  for the kids.   I got a little emotional thinking about all the things she did and was a bit angry at then moment while being by myself and reading.  Felt like she doesnt deserve a mothers day celebration after all shes done But I ended up getting over it.  

I came home and she was like "fine let's just go to church as a family and have a nice lunch for mothers day".  I said that sounds fair.   But I am a bit nervous being out with her for that period.  We haven't been out as a family for awhile.

She's now using mothers day to get us together as a family.   But I'm going to do my best to dodge any abusive comments that comes from her when we are together.  

Now get this.   She just texted me and said for "mothers day I want a Cabo trip or hawaii...or maybe for my birthday".

Really?   We are divorced...   also a couple weeks ago she said she wanted our toddler to experience a trip to Japan and that I should save my credit card points for that when he is 5 years old.

[engiebpd]

She is so unpredictable.   She has been dragging her feet on the disclosures of financial paperwork.   It's been 2-3 months now.  She says it's just overwhelming and she puts it off.

She's back with the affair guy again.

She really seems to have 2 sides to her personality.  She told me that her guy says this since she's super emotional and then behaves nicely.  Weve been avoiding conflict ast couple weeks.   In my mind, I literally think she's actually being truthful to her agreement all along.

Tonight I asked her if she is going to do thr paperwork since she texted me this morning that she'll get to it.  All of a sudden she says"well this has to be fair, you're not going to ask me for money right?"  I said no of course not, this is a 50/50 joint custody agreement.   And then she says "well I want money, I don't know if me and this guy will work out.   So I want money".

This is going to be tough guys.   I am at the end of my rope living with her.   She didn't pay for the electric bill that is in her name and it's around 2700 right now.     She did this last year to her car bill and when we walked out, I almost called the cops thinking our car was stolen.

We've already signed the summons and petitions at 50/50, how can she switch midway and want some money?   

I currently have none but I hold our assets which I do intend to give her half. 

Any thoughts please, I am soo exhausting from all this.   Thanks guys, you've been a great help to an anon. 

[SinisterComplex]

She is so unpredictable.   She has been dragging her feet on the disclosures of financial paperwork.   It's been 2-3 months now.  She says it's just overwhelming and she puts it off.

She's back with the affair guy again.

She really seems to have 2 sides to her personality.  She told me that her guy says this since she's super emotional and then behaves nicely.  Weve been avoiding conflict ast couple weeks.   In my mind, I literally think she's actually being truthful to her agreement all along.

Tonight I asked her if she is going to do thr paperwork since she texted me this morning that she'll get to it.  All of a sudden she says"well this has to be fair, you're not going to ask me for money right?"  I said no of course not, this is a 50/50 joint custody agreement.   And then she says "well I want money, I don't know if me and this guy will work out.   So I want money".

This is going to be tough guys.   I am at the end of my rope living with her.   She didn't pay for the electric bill that is in her name and it's around 2700 right now.     She did this last year to her car bill and when we walked out, I almost called the cops thinking our car was stolen.

We've already signed the summons and petitions at 50/50, how can she switch midway and want some money?   

I currently have none but I hold our assets which I do intend to give her half. 

Any thoughts please, I am soo exhausting from all this.   Thanks guys, you've been a great help to an anon. 

My friend, Power bill at $2700? What in the Actual F ?

How is that even possible? Sorry to focus on something else and I assure I am paying attention...just haven't responded as you have gotten solid feedback from the community and other members of the team.

Again though...$2700? Seriously good luck and I hope you find a way out of this giant fustercluck ;-)

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[livednlearned]

I think you have to figure out something she really wants and use leverage to move this forward.

People with BPD tend to drag things out, even things that work in their favor. Stonewalling should be listed in the DSM as the 10th trait.  

Does she know how much you hold in assets?

You know her best. What could motivate her?

Everything about the current situation is excellent for her. Why would she change anything?

Are you willing to move out and use your assets to pay for two places? It is a change you choose for you, even though there is a downside. But for her, it introduces a new hard edge. Now she has to choose between the reasonable thing and the one that makes things worse for her.

From her perspective, and from affair guy's perspective, you are great at stabilizing this three-legged stool. They think they know you and aren't expecting something different, like harming your own finances.

We often have to be willing to go through with things but in my experience my ex was more interested in not giving me what I want than getting what he wanted.

[ForeverDad]

We've already signed the summons and petitions at 50/50, how can she switch midway and want some money?

She can switch because until it is both signed by the judge and filed with the court, anything can be undone and renegotiated.  And the lawyer bills will grow.

I currently have none but I hold our assets which I do intend to give her half.

What you have, to put it bluntly, is Leverage.  PwBPD leverage is typically delay and often could care less about not paying bills.  Your leverage is your ownership of assets.  It's not a lot of leverage since most courts officially lean toward splits down the middle but they also are inclined to allow Gifting the problem parent a lot of extras.

Isn't this the time to stop being the Nice Guy or Nice Gal?  Of course, don't be mean or nasty but stop trying to follow your natural inclination to be super-nice or super-fair.  Those are normally excellent qualities but in these difficult times those inclination can enable you to commit self-sabotage.

If you can't manage to control your inclinations, then let your lawyer have room to be the "tough guy".  "I'm sorry, my lawyer won't let me pay that bill."  Let the lawyer take the blame.  That's one of the reasons we hire lawyers.  They can deal with the core issues without being conflicted with our Nice Guy feelings.  That's their job.   Of course, don't give them freedom to bloat their bills.

[engiebpd]

OK.  I saw a video about the importance of leverage when it comes to negotiating with a narcissist or bpd.  Even if you offer something that is favorable to them but it seems to them like it's what you want, they'll decline or do anything so you won't have it your way.

Her raging is becoming more frequent.   The more passive and avoiding I have been, I think she thinks she has more power over me.  

Through a normal text conversation she was raging and being verbally abusive.  I have to find the right times to talk to her about the important things like the baby or bills or prompting her to sign the paperwork.   Literally the only time is through texting and even then she rages.   I have ceased to talk to her about anything that can trigger her.

 I told her "OK If you're going to get angry, I guess we can talk about it with the therapist".   She then says I can't handle life and that I always have to run to our therapist.  

She says she doesn't want to do those sessions anymore.  Which probably means she wants me by myself.

I sent these texts messages to the counselor and we have our last session tomorrow.  I honestly don't know what will happen from then and to the end of our lease.

She says she wants to move out and be away from me but her actions are showing that.  She's just living this comfortable life of me doing most of the chores, being with the toddler 4-5 days out of the week and using me as a punching bag.

It seems a lot of the things mentioned in this thread is coming true.  

I'm kinda lost at what to do and having some anxiety of not knowing what will happen.  

The assets in my hands will be used for leverage but I am unsure if I want to make those kinds of threats yet.

 

[engiebpd]

I just want tonsay thank you all for all the replies.   I'm not sure what I'd do without all your information and love and support.

I am feeling so down right now.   I don't understand why she's trying to destroy my confidence.   I feel like I've been remaining as strong as possible these last few months. 

I used to be muscular.  I took muay Thai for 4 years going like 3-4x a week.  I am very skinny now within the last year since I haven't been working out as much as I used to.  A lot of it was from taking care of my toddler.   She's making fun of my skinnyness.  Telling me that men should get fatter when older not skinnier.    Saying i look like a girl.  Every now and then she'll tell me I'm not manly.

We are divorcing so I am trying to save money and make sure I have bills to pay and avoid overspending.  She makes fun of this too while she racks up her credit card bill impusively spending.

Is this what bpders do?   Or is she really out to try to destroy my confidence?  Are they even aware the kind of damage they're doing with these words?

And usually after she says stuff like this, she acts extremely nice later.   Acts normal.  I'm so thrown off

[Turkish]

She's Splitting and likely Projecting. Realistically, since you're divorcing, it's none of her  business, not that such criticisms in a relationship are healthy.

In my relationship, I was criticized for not being manly enough in the fix-it and emotional categories. It hurts, but chalk it up to her being mean because she is. 

[engiebpd]

Turkish,   how do we know it's splitting?  Can a normal person behave like this?  We know she's at least 100% bipolar.  Undiagnosed  for bpd.   Although has all the history of physical abuse and was abandoned by parents.   She has admitted to have fear of abandonment. 

Reason why I ask is because sometimes there's no conflict and the moment something irritates her, like something as simple as me walking slowly with her and the baby, she would resort to extreme hurtful comments.

[ForeverDad]

While I can't vouch for current patterns, it is well known that in decades past insurance didn't cover Borderline PD (viewed for a long time as untreatable or unresponsive) and since the behaviors were similar to Bi-polar, that was often the diagnosis... so insurance would cover the doctor visits.

However there is a difference... Bi-polar is largely a chemical imbalance and there are drugs that can adjust those levels.  On the other hand, while drugs may help moderate Borderline behaviors to an extent, the real need is for intensive therapy over years.  Dialectical or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (DBT & CBT) have been credited as the better available therapeutic approaches.

Also, it can be that an individual suffers with more than one issue, called co-morbid.

When I was still married to my now-ex, it became worse and worse over time, especially after we had a child.  In the morning I would leave a spouse who was reasonably normal and I didn't know whether I'd return to a ranting and raging spouse.  Or in the morning I would leave a spouse who was ranting and raging and I didn't know whether I'd return to a reasonably normal spouse.  Predictably unpredictable.

I recall one time I came home in the evening and was relieved that she was calm.  Then in the middle of her describing her day's events she suddenly transformed, her face contorted, she became a different persona and it was all because something she was telling me had triggered her.

It wasn't long before our marriage imploded.  The final couple years I'd been desperately trying to hold it all together but the triggers, traumas, behaviors, entitlement and twisted perceptions were just too much.

[engiebpd]

I absolutely cannot show any negative emotion.  Not even the slightest.   The moment I "sigh" because of something ridiculous that she repeats, she'll attack me by saying I'm yelling.  And this sigh would only come out after she repeats it until I get annoyed.

This morning she did this and repeatedly say "I have trauma I have trauma I can't take you yelling".   I just walked into my room.  I never really understood why having a child would make these effects much worst and I am experiencing it.  It's so hard to explain to people.  

Dr. Ramani in one of her interviews said that she is all for narcissist and bpds to be together in the same house hold as long as they don't have children.   I get it now.  

They simply cannot handle the stressors that comes with a child and they end up blaming those stressors on their partner daily.  And this is due to having zero awareness.


She has quit our coparenting/former marriage counselor session and she is doing therapy on her own.  How do you guys think this will go?  Will she lie in there or will she actually be truthful and eventually the therapist will figure it out and maybe she will do DBT?

I haven't yet figured out how thatll work to be honest because of my experience with her in our cosessions.  But in our sessions, she viewed it as a competition so there was too much manipulation and trying to get the therapist to side with her.  

Eventually our therapist figured it out (after a year of therapy twice a month) when she got me to behave like a Grey rock (she is an older therapist so she probably didnt know the term) but she coached me to do it.   That happened for like a year and my ex still had bad behaviors.  Now that our therapist figured it out, the last session she accused her of "always siding" with me.  Oh well.

So I can't really imagine what would happen if she goes to a therapist on her own.  Will she tell the truth about things?   It would be a waste of money to go in and just lie for validation.

Anyways, I feel a lot better from the other day.  I just have to accept this current "prison" I am in and know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I am constantly shifting from hating her and feeling sorry for her because she would rage and say gruesome stuff to me to destroy my confidence and then an hour later would be extremely nice.   It is just way too weird.  Now I can see why the victims start to think they're bpd or narcissistic.

I was actually questioning myself a few weeks ago.  

[livednlearned]

She has quit our coparenting/former marriage counselor session and she is doing therapy on her own.  How do you guys think this will go?  Will she lie in there or will she actually be truthful and eventually the therapist will figure it out and maybe she will do DBT?

There is some research suggesting that pwBPD tend to seek out therapy to work out relationship conflicts, not work on themselves.

I can't really imagine what would happen if she goes to a therapist on her own.  Will she tell the truth about things?   It would be a waste of money to go in and just lie for validation.

I disagree. For someone who is starved for validation, paying to be validated probably feels well worth the cost.

I am constantly shifting from hating her and feeling sorry for her because she would rage and say gruesome stuff to me to destroy my confidence and then an hour later would be extremely nice.

 

This is splitting. She cannot reconcile the good and bad parts of people around her. It was a helpful adaptation as a kid. Now it's destructive.

We see little kids do this. We help them regulate emotions so they can begin to integrate good/bad in others (a developmental stage). Your wife is an adult and these patterns have worn deep grooves.

She cannot self-soothe so she throws fits and has no way to comprehend there is another way to exist. People cannot be trusted unless she can complete a transaction with them, and that experience is fleeting.

Also, you cannot have confidence because then she won't have company. She hates herself. She hates you. She wants you to hate yourself. Now you're all miserable and no one is better than the other.

Is the light at the end of the tunnel moving to different apartments?

It sounds like she has not yet agreed to sign the papers?

[Tangled mangled]

Hi Engiebpd,
I have read all your texts on this thread and totally sympathise with you for what you’ve been through.

The advice on this site has been incredibly insightful too and I thank God for this awesome community we can all rely on.
Four months ago I was in a similar situation as you are in but I am a female in my 30s divorcing a male ubpd following DV.
In my experience you have to be unpredictable and stop giving her tge heads up as to what’s important to you and your child.
In addition to stonewalling, another bpd/narc trait is sabotage.
Say you have mentioned that this and that is important to your sons well being, she will go ahead and sabotage it. My experience was with my sons skin condition, I kept reminding him of the things that made it worse and guess what, he goes around to undermine my instructions ( I’m a trainee medic) to ensure my sons skin condition gets worse.
So I have learned to state the opposite in some matters such as the assets that he is refusing to share. During our arguments I have stated that I will gladly fight this mess in court to the point of using all the assets on solicitors fees.
I have moved out of the family home and I took our 2 children with me 300miles across the country. He lives in the family home awaiting the finalising the divorce. I’m sure he is racking up bills to reduce my share of the assets but I’m not bothered because I am free.
Someone once said in dealing with the disordered be prepared to count your losses.
If I were in your situation I wouldn’t live in thesame apartment complex with your ex. I understand your doing it for your child but the healthiest boundaries you can set with the disordered is no contact or minimal contact. Don’t forget that she may stalk you after moving out and by living close to her you are giving her more power over you.
It is also in your child’s interest to live totally separate and far from her so that you can regain your confidence and peace.
Take care

[gaherna3]

Hello Engie,
I read this this whole thread and it has helped me a lot. My wife was recently diagnosed as BPD and in a mental hospital right now. Reading through your experience helps me see that maybe she is a bit illogical. She blames my lack of helping around the house to us losing connection. Now I am not perfect but I feel I try to help as much as I can without burning out. I am the bread winner and coming home to doing chores 50/50 seems a bit unfair.

Recently she is dead set on a divorce. I have not seen any evidence of infidelity. All I get from her is she is unhappy. I too worry about our 20 month old daughter. However, I like your perspective of providing her a more stable life apart than a chaotic one together. The fact that she is so young and will not remember much of a "family" unit is also some relief. We have not talked logistics about anything or even started to proceed with the divorce but this thread is helping me to think a bit more clearly and focus on my daughter.

[engiebpd]

Hi Tangle,

A high conflict divorce that requires heavy cost lawyers is one I am trying to avoid.   My Grey rock behavior and being nice and non confrontational has so far allowed me to minimize conflict with her.   This is useful so we don't argue around our son. The only problem is that I have to take a lot verbally and mentally without defending myself nor getting angry.

Your plans of running away with the kids is not an option for me.   She can call the cops and say I kidnapped the kids from her.  

Hello Engie,
I read this this whole thread and it has helped me a lot. My wife was recently diagnosed as BPD and in a mental hospital right now. Reading through your experience helps me see that maybe she is a bit illogical. She blames my lack of helping around the house to us losing connection. Now I am not perfect but I feel I try to help as much as I can without burning out. I am the bread winner and coming home to doing chores 50/50 seems a bit unfair.

Recently she is dead set on a divorce. I have not seen any evidence of infidelity. All I get from her is she is unhappy. I too worry about our 20 month old daughter. However, I like your perspective of providing her a more stable life apart than a chaotic one together. The fact that she is so young and will not remember much of a "family" unit is also some relief. We have not talked logistics about anything or even started to proceed with the divorce but this thread is helping me to think a bit more clearly and focus on my daughter.

Your wife is diagnosed,  I hate to say this but my relationship got much worst after my baby was 2.5 years old.  It was easy 2 and under.  When she became more stressed due to how tough the baby was, she blamed everything on me.  

It was illogical blaming.   You may experience worst when more life stressors occurs.  If your wife is really a cluster b, I would try to plan a way out as safely as possible without a high conflict divorce.  It's about to get messier.  

I had a very normal and great life until everything flipped on me just months ago.  She may have been nefarious before I found out but we don't know for sure.  

I've read and researched so much on narcs and bpds.  Every professional that I have listened to on youtube has said that exiting is the best way.  Listen on youtube to Dr ramani, Sam vaknin and Dr palmatier.  

[engiebpd]

1.5-2 months left

Time is almost up.   I've lost 20 lbs of muscle since last year.  I lost 10 lbs this year.  I was at 168 towards my highest.   Now I'm 148 and look scrawny.   

She still hasn't submitted her financial portion.  Mediator gave up on that and is just trying to draft the settlement up for her to sign.

She's still on and off with affair guy.   

She's blaming me for "manipulating" our counselor and also our psychiatrist for putting her on bipolar meds.   She thinks she doesn't have it.   

That's all I have on this update for now.

Thank you all for your support

[SinisterComplex]

1.5-2 months left

Time is almost up.   I've lost 20 lbs of muscle since last year.  I lost 10 lbs this year.  I was at 168 towards my highest.   Now I'm 148 and look scrawny.   

She still hasn't submitted her financial portion.  Mediator gave up on that and is just trying to draft the settlement up for her to sign.

She's still on and off with affair guy.   

She's blaming me for "manipulating" our counselor and also our psychiatrist for putting her on bipolar meds.   She thinks she doesn't have it.   

That's all I have on this update for now.

Thank you all for your support

Don't worry about the muscle part. You can gain it back relatively quickly once your mind is clear. Muscle memory is a thing and it'll be like getting newbie gains all over again. LOL. If you are ever curious as it pertains to the putting on muscle part let me know.

Keep your head up, be kind to you, and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!