Finally, my mother is leaving tomorrow. Phew.

[zanyapple]

My parents' 3-week and 4 day stay has been ok. Getting them a hotel was really the right thing to do and I have no regrets, but something happened last minute. Long story short - apparently, State law does not allow stays longer than 21 days. Priceline mistakenly accommodated my booking for 25 days, so the hotel kicked them out. They had to stay at my house for 4 days. I could’ve looked for a different hotel, but I was really struggling that day - my first day back to work, back to school, and husband was on a business trip.

Anyway, during their overall stay, there wasn’t any intense drama that happened. I really did my best to “grey rock” any of her attempts to create drama or anything that could possibly result in her creating drama. But sometimes, I can't help myself. For example, if she says she isn't hungry for dinner, I would just go get her something and tell her, "I'll get you dinner before you broadcast to everyone that your daughter did not invite you to dinner." She would just take the food and be silent.

I think she has also been trying to bite her tongue.

Admittedly, grey rocking was very tough. There were moments where I felt like it was really hard for me not to get triggered.

For example, she absolutely had zero respect of my time. We would agree to meet at a certain time and often, she would be late. On their very last night, I really couldn’t handle it anymore. I waited for them for half an hour.

When I saw them, my mother was walking slowly towards my car, not a care in the world (dad was behind because he always walks slow because of his knees). I was starving! When she gets in the car, she doesn't say anything. I asked why they were late. She immediately angrily says, "if (dad's name) hears what you had just asked, I'm sure he has a lot to say and you'll all gang up on me!" My dad gets in the car angrily because I know he's been pushing for her to be on time. She says she wanted to get Subway that's why she was late.

I was absolutely pissed. Everyone at home is hungry. She does not apologize and acts like nothing happened. She even proceeds to eat her sandwich in my car and sips her Coke nonchalantly.

The plan that night was for them to come to my kid’s art class, but I told them to stay. The rest of the night, I don’t talk to her. She still acts like nothing happened and gave me a cupcake, but I didn't respond.

TBH, I don't think I feel anything towards my mother anymore. Maybe indifference. I don't have any desire to mend our relationship. As bad as this may sound, if she passes, I don't think I'll miss her. I don't have many good memories of her, most are bad. But I have every desire to retaliate, so maybe it's not indifference? So maybe it's just anger? How do I get her out of my head?

[NarcsEverywhere]

I mean, I think, you, you know, being late 30 minutes isn't so bad, once in a while. But the thing is, I totally get where you're coming from, she probably has a pattern of doing this. My exGF with BPD, would never be on time, and no matter what you said to her, no matter how stern or polite, she'd always be late, and not care at all about what you wanted. Really that's what it comes down to, they want power, and that power is based on screwing you over, to exert that power. Your wants and needs don't matter, right? Consideration is a burden, too heavy to bare, for them.

I just feel sorry for your Dad, because I've been with a person who has BPD before and it's dehumanizing as hell, he must be pretty tortured. I totally get how you could feel so much anger, and even devalue her, because honestly you feel devalued. And I'm not saying you have to feel a damn thing for her. But I think you'd feel a lot more if she passed than you might anticipate. Even if it's mostly just your baggage about her. Your earliest bonds are with your parents, no matter how screwed up, and that's gonna affect you a lot.

I dunno, I'm kinda focusing too much on my Dad lately, he's dysfunctional, I don't know about BPD though. I think working through your feelings, in therapy, venting to friends, journaling or creative writing, can all be helpful in getting out emotions. And sometimes you have to focus on them (and the emotions you have about them) to get them out of your head. But also, just realize you have way more power over what you do, than you'll ever have over her, so focus on your own power. That's what I have to do more of myself.

[zachira]

Glad to hear that the holidays with your mother are over. You are not alone in feeling angry and wondering how you will feel when your mother passes away. My mother with BPD is deceased. I try to deal with my anger towards my large extended abusive family by getting in touch with my sadness through regular meditation. Anger often covers up sadness that we are afraid to feel because we don't know if we can handle that sadness, that is might never end. Now that my mother is gone, I mostly feel sadness about her passing, and am genuinely sorry that she suffered so terribly from being so mentally ill. What is a big challenge for me is the anger and helplessness that frequently overwhelms me, as I never know when the next round of abusive behaviors from extended family members and their flying monkeys are going to come. What is for sure, is that they will find some way to shock me by how cruel they can be. Perhaps with your mother, it is not feeling safe, knowing if it isn't being late, it will be something else to process that she does to show you she is in control and does not care about your feelings.

[Methuen]

Could you apply natural/logical consequences for being late?

It sounds like her being late is not a new thing.  If you agreed upon a time, you could wait 5 or 10 min past that, but if you family is hungry, a good logical consequence for your parents would be to start eating without them, since the food is ready, and they are not there at the agreed upon time.

Then there's no hard feelings.  Your own family doesn't see you getting upset, and nobody goes hungry. 

They can join you when they get there (cold food might be a motivator for next time).

If she comments that you started without her, a gentle friendly reminder that you had dinner ready at the mutually agreed upon time, and your family was hungry would be sufficient.  Keep it brief and friendly.

Don't explain, argue, defend or justify.  That will set up conflict.

It's better for your family to just eat at the agreed upon time, and everybody to stay happy, allowing your parents to experience the natural consequences.

[Mommydoc]

I think there are certain things our pwBPD does that totally trigger us.  It sounds like the late thing triggers you.  Question: does it trigger you when others are 30 minutes late, or do you just begin to categorize them as an “ always late person”.  I had a friend who was chronically late,  I just started to tell them an earlier time for events than everyone else and it worked!   

I don't think I feel anything towards my mother anymore. Maybe indifference. I don't have any desire to mend our relationship. As bad as this may sound, if she passes, I don't think I'll miss her. I don't have many good memories of her, most are bad. But I have every desire to retaliate, so maybe it's not indifference? So maybe it's just anger? How do I get her out of my head?

I totally get the lack of desire to heal the relationship, and it is OK if you feel relief when she dies. I think many of us feel that way.  But given the desire to retaliate, I think your question about anger is a good one.  I used to be afraid to feel or express anger and then began some work to explore that.  It turns out, if you are feeling anger and suppress it, it can be toxic emotion to you and your well being.  But if you feel anger and channel it to take action to protect yourself or others, or to improve a situation, it can be a very healthy emotion to surface and lean into. Do what you need to, to heal you, including allowing yourself to be angry.  ( you will never change her).

 And phew!  I know that feeling fo thankfulness that my sister with BPD is leaving.  Enjoy the peace, and nurture yourself!

[GaGrl]

If my step-grandmother with uBPD/NPD had spent 4+ weeks with our family, someone would have been dead at the end! OMG, what a stressful situation.

The best thing my dad ever did was to move us 200 miles away from my grandparents, so they could control their own family life. Time together with my mom's dad and stepmother was carefully timed -- three days was about all my dad could take, and my mom's stress level had a three-day max.

[zanyapple]

I think there are certain things our pwBPD does that totally trigger us.  It sounds like the late thing triggers you.  Question: does it trigger you when others are 30 minutes late, or do you just begin to categorize them as an “ always late person”.

This is a very question. The answer would be "no" and a good reason for that is - if any of the people I know were late, they have always been apologetic. Some may not be sincere in the sense that they will keep doing it, but they are sorry for that moment it happened. The first thing any normal person will say is, "I'm sorry I'm late..."

So what made me upset is when she saw my car, she just walked slowly towards it and nonchalantly just got in the car without a word. When I asked her why she was late, she just said she saw a Subway and decided to get a sandwich. She then proceeds to just eat it while everyone else is hungry. Where I stopped was also an unloading area. She was fully aware that I can't stop there for long periods of time. She was fully aware that needed to be there on time.

But that said, it's really the actions after the fact that she was late that are triggering - her not caring and disrespecting everyone's time. Even her face looks like so.

[zanyapple]

Turns out, I spoke too soon when I wrote this post. She did create drama, the very last minute they were here right before I drove them to the airport.

The few days they stayed at my house, I told them that if they needed to use the bathroom, they will have to just flush it the next morning. The problem with this toilet is, it's next to my daughter's room, and if you flush it, it creates a really loud noise that you can hear all throughout the house waking everyone up.

3AM that morning, she apparently went downstairs to use the bathroom because she had a stomachache. She asked my dad to accompany her downstairs because she was afraid (she believes in ghosts, etc).

So around 5AM, my husband asked why both my parents were downstairs in the wee hours of the morning. Apparently, he fell asleep on the couch (he stays up really late) and got woken up by them talking loudly.

So I asked my mother why they went down super early in the morning. I told them they woke my husband up. Although I said this was ok because they wouldn't have known he was down there, she started balling her eyes out saying "we're not allowing her to use the bathroom."

Oh my goodness. This is really inexplicable to me. I used to cry when I see her angry, but when I saw her that morning, I just felt numb. It actually felt good in some way to not cry in front of her because she would've enjoyed that. I felt I've regained some power.

Then she went on to profusely apologize to my husband. He hugged her and said it's ok because they wouldn't have known, but he told me he was really confused. He didn't understand why she was balling her eyes out over such small incident. He said he felt like she was emotionally immature because anyone would not have cried over that - and it was A LOT of crying. Almost like someone died.

Then I started to explain myself, but she would shut me down each time and say, "Let's not talk about it anymore." But then she continues to talk about it herself and starts unraveling incidents in the past. She even said, "Every time I'm at your house, you always make me shed tears."

Then in the car ride to the airport, she brings it up again, so I said, "I thought you didn't want to talk about it anymore? There is no point to this conversation because you want to be the only one talking. Please continue painting yourself as the victim, so you'll eventually believe it. Go tell everyone about it." She was quiet for a little bit, until she started profusely apologizing to me (weird). I didn't respond because I know that this is not genuine. I know sometime soon, her mind will perform some sort of mental gymnastics again that will revert her to victim mode.

Lesson learned - never let them visit again.

[zanyapple]

If my step-grandmother with uBPD/NPD had spent 4+ weeks with our family, someone would have been dead at the end! OMG, what a stressful situation.

I laughed at this! The 4 days they were here was too much. I'm so glad I made the decision to let them stay at the hotel. I lost a lot of money, but my sanity is so much more worth than just a couple thousand. Yes, it was expensive and I'm not wealthy, but I would have gone out of my mind and her toxicity would have put permanent damage on my kid.

[Methuen]

So what made me upset is when she saw my car, she just walked slowly towards it and nonchalantly just got in the car without a word. When I asked her why she was late, she just said she saw a Subway and decided to get a sandwich. She then proceeds to just eat it while everyone else is hungry.

Pardon me for asking, but is there any possibility your parents didn't understand they had an invite to dinner?  Who would stop at a Subway right before a dinner invite?  If they knew they had a dinner invite, that is just crazy behavior.  

Regarding her crying, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest it probably had nothing to do with the toilet, or waking your sleeping husband.  It probably had everything to do with the fact that she was leaving after several months, and her separation anxiety was triggered.  pwBPD struggle with internal feelings of abandonment, and even though she was leaving you and going back home, the upcoming separation was probably too much for someone who is unable to regulate her emotions.  What you observed was probably her feeling overwhelmed due to the upcoming separation.  

Could that fit?  It could even explain why she actually apologized, which we all know is an unlikely thing to happen from a pwBPD.  It could also explain why her crying was so intense (you said "almost like someone died").

I dunno.  I'm not an expert - just the daughter of a BPD mom and someone who's done a lot of reading.

Then in the car ride to the airport, she brings it up again, so I said, "I thought you didn't want to talk about it anymore? There is no point to this conversation because you want to be the only one talking. Please continue painting yourself as the victim, so you'll eventually believe it. Go tell everyone about it."

I think it's good you challenged her by saying this.  I would suggest your response took her by surprise and halted further verbal diarrhea along the same lines. It's kind of back handed sarcastic humour. It would be good for her to sit with those words for as long as it takes.  

He said he felt like she was emotionally immature because anyone would not have cried over that -

He's right.  pwBPD are emotionally immature - their emotional development got stuck at some age (often preteen or teen), and they never developed the skill of regulating their emotions.

My family also had a rule about 3-day stays for family.  My aunts and uncles all lived 800 miles away in different directions.  Some of them would come once a year when I was a child - but 3 days was the understood max by everybody.  It was a family rule that everyone adhered to for good reason.

Take especially good care of yourself with self-kindness now that she is gone.  It may take more time than you think to start feeling like yourself again.  

[Couscous]

It probably had everything to do with the fact that she was leaving after several months, and her separation anxiety was triggered.

Both my mother and MIL will find a pretext to have either an emotional meltdown or a blowup the day before their (or our) departure after a visit, even if it was brief visit. This happens at the end of every single visit.

It took me a while to connect the dots on that.

[zachira]

It seems with my BPD mother that there some specific meltdowns that could be predicted. She always blew up after Christmas before the family left.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Interesting.

When I was living away and still in contact with BPD mother, her blow ups were always upon arrival for a visit. She would cry and be dysregulated when she left, but not enraged. Upon arrival though, there always was a big fight or blame or rage that we needed to "get out of the way" to "enjoy" the rest of the visit.

[zanyapple]

Pardon me for asking, but is there any possibility your parents didn't understand they had an invite to dinner?  Who would stop at a Subway right before a dinner invite?  If they knew they had a dinner invite, that is just crazy behavior.  

Regarding her crying, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest it probably had nothing to do with the toilet, or waking your sleeping husband.  It probably had everything to do with the fact that she was leaving after several months, and her separation anxiety was triggered.  pwBPD struggle with internal feelings of abandonment, and even though she was leaving you and going back home, the upcoming separation was probably too much for someone who is unable to regulate her emotions.  What you observed was probably her feeling overwhelmed due to the upcoming separation.

Yes, that could be possible - and I think it's could also be a combination of things because I've always walked on eggshells around her. I know that a basic house rule could be interpreted by her as a personal attack. So instead of requesting that "she doesn't use the loud flush in the middle of the night," she could very well interpret that as "her not being allowed to use the toilet at all simply because I want to mess with her", no?

[zanyapple]

Interesting.

When I was living away and still in contact with BPD mother, her blow ups were always upon arrival for a visit. She would cry and be dysregulated when she left, but not enraged. Upon arrival though, there always was a big fight or blame or rage that we needed to "get out of the way" to "enjoy" the rest of the visit.

THIS! This always happens! In their 2019 visit, there was also some sort of drama and it always ends up with her telling us that she's cancelling her trip (but then she doesn't really do that). It's almost as if she's looking for some sort of validation, like she wants me to sweet-talk her into coming over.

[Couscous]

In their 2019 visit, there was also some sort of drama and it always ends up with her telling us that she's cancelling her trip (but then she doesn't really do that). It's almost as if she's looking for some sort of validation, like she wants me to sweet-talk her into coming over.

Anxiety would be another explanation for this kind of behavior. Perhaps she fears that you and your father will gang up on her while she’s visiting, or she is feeling stressed about the packing, or getting to the airport on time, or about all of those things.

But the good news is that you can now anticipate that she will likely do all of these things next time she visits, and then it won’t be upsetting for you. You could even put it on your calendar to remind you of what’s coming.