abuse v. cheating

[Depression = 72% of members]

Why is it that often people instantly believe a story of a person cheating but not a story of a person being an abuser?

Is it because most people can relate to the concept of being cheated on but not to being abused? Or is it part of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thought process since abuse is a very serious allegation? Or it's too scary, real, unrelatable, taboo, etc. to think about abuse?

For example, I've been privy to conversations where people have been livid about a man being a cheater and never doubted the woman saying this happened to her.

But when someone has the guts to share that a man abused her, they question if it's true and she's not just "a crazy ex".

  It really angers me as a domestic violence survivor (abused by my stbx H uBPD). 

I was cheated on once by a partner, and while heartbroken, NOTHING for me has compared to the trauma of the abuse I've suffered. I'm not trying to devalue the feelings/repercussions of any kind of cheating, I'm just upset that I've heard/seen this happening to DV survivors. 

DV survivor venting

thank you 

[yellowbutterfly]

Why is it that often people instantly believe a story of a person cheating but not a story of a person being an abuser?

Is it because most people can relate to the concept of being cheated on but not to being abused? Or is it part of the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thought process since abuse is a very serious allegation? Or it's too scary, real, unrelatable, taboo, etc. to think about abuse?

For example, I've been privy to conversations where people have been livid about a man being a cheater and never doubted the woman saying this happened to her.

But when someone has the guts to share that a man abused her, they question if it's true and she's not just "a crazy ex".

  It really angers me as a domestic violence survivor (abused by my stbx H uBPD). 

I was cheated on once by a partner, and while heartbroken, NOTHING for me has compared to the trauma of the abuse I've suffered. I'm not trying to devalue the feelings/repercussions of any kind of cheating, I'm just upset that I've heard/seen this happening to DV survivors. 

DV survivor venting

thank you 

[Turkish]

I wonder if it's maybe that cheating is easier to comprehend as an "either/or" 1 or 0.

I wasn't beaten, but when I shared with my otherwise good T that I had experienced some abuse including object breaking, he dismissed it. I wasn't too invalidated as I'm sure he'd heard far, far worse stories likely mostly from women.

According to the Duluth Model , abuse takes many forms, a wide cast net.

[AdRock]

I'll preface this with I'm rather cynical so perhaps I'm not the best person for advice but I would wager that most adults associate cheating with sex.  As an adult who (and no, not proud of it) has been involved with a few women who were married, it's not that simple.  For me especially, it was the emotional bond more than anything in spite of the nature of the relationship being wholly unhealthy.  But, we live in a society who probably thinks of an affair and automatically defaults to thinking about it in strictly sexual terms.
My own history aside and my own mistakes, affairs usually are not that simple but I think society will generally broad stroke it as "two people who couldn't keep it in their pants".
Abuse on the other hand is something I think most people would have a harder time understanding.  Someone who would never cheat on their partner may still be able to wonder in their private moments if they may find themselves in a position in their relationship if they would seek emotional or physical needs elsewhere.  I think it's harder to relate to someone who is purposefully abusing their partner in anyway (or as this board has taught me, not always in purposeful ways).
Considering how things were with my own ex (to my knowledge she is undiagnosed with BPD but most of my therapists think she has it or something along those lines), a lot of people would relate to her circumstances at the time and how she was trying to fill a void missing in her life through our affair.  She was not intentionally abusive but she did have a habit of accusing people of doing things to her that she was in fact doing to them (whether it was me or her at the time husband, she loved accusing people of gaslighting her, even though I felt crazy many times until I realized she was gaslighting me).  And since anyone I have talked to focuses on how she was at the time married, had addiction issues, etc., they were not able to understand the BPD side of things that were prevalent in my mind so they would focus on that ("she's married!"; "she's an alchoholic!") where I would be like "well yes but she's also emotionally unstable and volatile half the week, can we talk about that please".
Sorry if I went on a rant, I miss her more lately when I thought was getting better.
My long-winded point: I think certain things people at large can understand better than others.  Cynical as I am, I don't think most people want to abuse their partner (even if cheating is probably a type of abuse in some way but I've made enough mistakes in life at this point I don't think I'm in a place to judge anyone at my age {well most people}).

[Outdorenthusiast]

I identify with this immensely but from a male perspective.  If she accuses me of cheating (a very common delusion borne of BPD insecurity)  - it is treated seriously by others and I am immediately guilty until proven innocent.  However if I am to say I am a regular recipient of extreme emotional abuse - this is quickly written off as “yeah we all are buddy - it’s called PMS.”  - HUGE double standard.  (Sorry had to vent where only this board would understand the unique dichotomy.). Guys I feel are not believed easily that they can - and are - abused.  It isn’t like there are battered mens shelters lined up, or mens rescue counselors available.  Very slanted.  (Don’t get me wrong - I am glad women get support etc.  just venting on the stigma and perception…)

[yellowbutterfly]

Outdoor, I totally understand your venting. Men are often not seen as victims of emotional or physical abuse and it's a problem in society. Abuse can happen to anyone. I'm sorry it happened to you and others didn't believe you. We do!

I struggle with the fact that abuse, no matter the source, is often misunderstood. I'm glad I've found this group, you get it.

[SaltyDawg]

MEN ARE VICTIMS almost by a 2:1 ratio of Domestic Violence!

According to Randi Kreger's follow-on book, studies conducted in prisons have concluded that:

50% of all women who batter men meet the criteria for BPD
25-30% of all men who batter women meet the criteria for BPD

This website has an informal poll at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240171

The answers speak for themselves in this matter with regards to physical violence:
I was hit or phys. intimidated by my female partner - 155
I was hit or phys. intimidated by my male partner   - 72
Total Voters: 338

Overall where BPD is thought to occur (predominately uBPD persons) from this site's poll - since the number of male vs female participants is unknown, I will assume they are equal, although unlikely making this observation a bit arbitrary:
155/338 = 45% of men in the survey were battered
72/338 = 21% of women in the survey were battered
227/338 = 67% of those who responded had some kind of physical violence actual
and/or projected, so 33% didn't.  

Of the 67% who were battered (155+72=227), the results are more alarming:
155/227 = 68% of those battered were men battered by their (u)BPD partners; and
72/227 = 31% of those battered were women battered by their (u)BPD partners.

Generally speaking men are larger and stronger, so when they are battered, it often goes unreported due to one or more of the following:
1.  It didn't hurt, their woman was too weak to make it hurt.
2.  They are embarassed a woman beat them up, and would live in ridicule among their peers.
3.  Women lose their temper more easily, attributable to 'that time of the month', so generally, when they lose their $h*t it is not as severe, so there is less damage, as they are more accustomed to handling the additional hormonal [chemical imbalance] in their system.
4.  Often there are no bruises or injury, for reason number #1, it is 'his word' vs 'her word' in most jurisdictions [not all] will take the side of the woman - yes, this is sexist, but it is the truth, and that is why it is underreported.

Whereas women, are generally not as strong, and when a man loses his $h*t, he is not used to such intense feelings, so the result is much more intense, so, one or more of the following occur.
1.  There is verifiable injury, often resulting in charges being brought.
2.  Men are more violent when they become violent [look at crime statistics], as they generally have less of a chemical variation than women do in their systems, so when there is a change, it is more severe.

I am a man, and I have recorded 5 instances of DV in my journal, 3 in the past year alone.  1.  Thrown to the floor,  2. Punched was threatened [Toddler daughter at the time witnessed this one, and it scared her straight for over a decade] 3. punched 5 times while sleeping [snoring too loudly], 4.  Kicked while sleeping, & 5.  Punched in the arm because I was in the way of my uBPDw moving a coercive doll.  None of these produced bruises.  The last two produced pain that lasted for 2-3 days; however, each of the incidents were an escalation of the previous incident.  Two of these incidents were reported by the couple's T who is a mandated reporter.

[yellowbutterfly]

I wasn't beaten, but when I shared with my otherwise good T that I had experienced some abuse including object breaking, he dismissed it. I wasn't too invalidated as I'm sure he'd heard far, far worse stories likely mostly from women.

According to the Duluth Model , abuse takes many forms, a wide cast net.

Turkish, I also experienced object breaking and taking objects hostage (to the detriment of my career). I personally experienced more emotional/psychological abuse than physical and found it to be scarier. Often times, I feel like the worst abuse is the abuse you cannot see from the outside. Which is why I brought this up too, I was curious why often times people (men/women/non-b) are not believed or called crazy when talking about being abused.

[yellowbutterfly]

MEN ARE VICTIMS almost by a 2:1 ratio of Domestic Violence![...]

Salty, these are horrifying statistics and I'm thankful you shared them. I agree, men are often not treated with fairness when they are the victims of abuse. It pains me you had to go through what you describe with your ex being the abuser.

One thing in my experience that really bothers me on this topic is very personal... my stbx H uBPD used this exact statistical analysis to bolster his lies of abuse that I believed and they turned out to be false. I hate that he abused the system to his advantage. It makes it worse for men, like yourself.  On that note, I JUST WANT TO SAY, I MOST CERTAINLY BELIEVE YOU   

[SaltyDawg]

Salty, these are horrifying statistics and I'm thankful you shared them. I agree, men are often not treated with fairness when they are the victims of abuse. It pains me you had to go through what you describe with your ex being the abuser.

One thing in my experience that really bothers me on this topic is very personal... my stbx H uBPD used this exact statistical analysis to bolster his lies of abuse that I believed and they turned out to be false. I hate that he abused the system to his advantage. It makes it worse for men, like yourself.   On that note, I JUST WANT TO SAY, I MOST CERTAINLY BELIEVE YOU  

Thank you for the  it is greatly appreciated.

Even though men are abused by their women with BPD, the physical damage and risk of being killed is much greater if a man with BPD is in your life and is abusive towards women - it is much more serious from a physical standpoint, even though I do believe that women can be a lot more manipulative than men from the emotional standpoint.  Please take all necessary precautions with your stbx.  BTW, how did he lie, did he manipulate the statistics, did his narrative portray you as the abuser?

Unfortunately, mine is not an 'ex', yet.  She is in therapy, and is getting [somewhat] better, with several setbacks.  I do not feel my life is in mortal danger [yet]; however, the attacks while I am sleeping are a bit unsettling.  I am a big sailor, the size of an american football linebacker, and the stereotype of a sailor [who was physically gone for half of the time due to my chosen profession] holds almost no weight to the stereotype of the 'perfect church lady', what my wife is projecting to everyone.  So, guess who would likely win in a legal battle - I am staying in it primarily for the children to reverse the emotional damage that has already occurred.  

My D had full blown AN when I came back from sea and was at the upper end of the lethal range [10.00-12.00] for BMI, she nadired at 12.00 and had to hospitalize her for months.  She has recovered nicely from that; however, is now controlling her grades [in a very good valedictorian kind of way] and everything else that doesn't have a negative impact in an OCPD-like manner which is preferable to BPD, but still an issue so she can go NC when she can escape the situation, she realizes, how 'toxic' my wife's relationship is and has called her a 'monster'.  My S on the other hand has BPD-like rages and BPD-like splitting, and has some oppositional defiance type tendencies due to 'copy cat' like behaviors he has learned from his home life, still to young to diagnose; however, needs to be monitored.  I am educating myself as much as I can, and I am navigating the emotional minefield and giving them emotional tools to keep them as safe as practical under our current circumstances.

I also believe in the sanctity of marriage to stand by your spouse in sickness and health.  I am standing by her in her mental health illness, even if it is undiagnosed and she lashes out at me.

Although she has duped [or they won't tell her for fear of running] her T's that she is not BPD.  However, she assesses in the low 20's in Randi Kreger's book where anything above a 12 is of concern, and 16 a definite concern - ick.  Has exhibited 8/10 of the major traits to me [including domestic violence, divorce threats, and suicide attempts], and I believe is capable of doing all 10 if I divorce her.  My T's on the other hand universally recognize the BPD traits, and are giving me tools to manage some of her more aggressive behaviors.  I have been validated by other experts in the field too.  My wife has projected on to me that I am the one with issues [I have some, but they are not that severe, primarily codependency, and I am doing some deep diving on myself, to make sure, as being with an undiagnosed pwBPD is quite the mind f***.]

I am learning how to cope with the current situation.  My number one lesson that I have learned is that everyone who has a pwBPD, NEEDS to do SELF-CARE.  You cannot, and should not pour every bit of energy into making it better.  I learned this lesson late, like half a year ago, and it has made a world of difference in the abuse I was on the receiving end of.  It is an ongoing journey, and I hope to reverse more of the damage, or at least halt it from progressing any further.  

[Turkish]

My ex and I have the same HMO (Health Maintenence Org for those outside of the USA... insurance provider). My T told me that they don't officially Dx BPD, but they'll refer patients to DBT if they think so.

After my mom blew through six therapists from the county agency until she found one she trusted gave her a roundabout Dx. The T gave her a book on BPD to explain her father. My mom, an RN, was smart enough to realize that she had BPD and admitted it to me decades after her own therapy for PTSD.

My mom was also borderline abusive towards me as a child, no pun intended.