Abusive Mother Outlives Scapegoat Daughter

[Depression = 72% of members]

A woman I went to school with has passed away. She had a really abusive mother who was much more abusive than my mother, had a golden child sister, while she was the scapegoat. Very elderly abusive mother still alive. Golden child sister took over classmate's life in the end, and hopefully abusive mother was still living many miles away in another state and golden child sister was able to be kind to her before she died. I believe my mother killed my kind caring generous brother who she outlived by many years. My memory of the mother of this classmate, is she always bragged to me about her golden child daughter and never about the daughter I was interested in because we went to school together. When we were teenagers, the classmate and I talked about how we didn't like our mothers. Many years later, she told me about all the abuse she was enduring at the hands of her mother and sister. Father was apparently a nice man, though mother was very jealous of classmate's relationship with her father who died many years ago. I am so sad classmate never got to have the life she deserved. She was a kind caring person with lots to contribute, and I know she made others people's lives better.
I often feel so grateful that I have been able to make a better life for myself, even though it is later in life, despite my abusive family members. I often tell myself I am a survivor, and could have ended up as a drug addict, an alcholic, a crimminal, committed suicide, been an abusive parent, had a personality disorder or other serious debilitating mental illness or in poor physical health (like so many victims of childhood abuse) yet somehow I choose to fight for my life and escaped some of the worst outcomes of being an abused child and family member. What about you?

[zachira]

A woman I went to school with has passed away. She had a really abusive mother who was much more abusive than my mother, had a golden child sister, while she was the scapegoat. Very elderly abusive mother still alive. Golden child sister took over classmate's life in the end, and hopefully abusive mother was still living many miles away in another state and golden child sister was able to be kind to her before she died. I believe my mother killed my kind caring generous brother who she outlived by many years. My memory of the mother of this classmate, is she always bragged to me about her golden child daughter and never about the daughter I was interested in because we went to school together. When we were teenagers, the classmate and I talked about how we didn't like our mothers. Many years later, she told me about all the abuse she was enduring at the hands of her mother and sister. Father was apparently a nice man, though mother was very jealous of classmate's relationship with her father who died many years ago. I am so sad classmate never got to have the life she deserved. She was a kind caring person with lots to contribute, and I know she made others people's lives better.
I often feel so grateful that I have been able to make a better life for myself, even though it is later in life, despite my abusive family members. I often tell myself I am a survivor, and could have ended up as a drug addict, an alcholic, a crimminal, committed suicide, been an abusive parent, had a personality disorder or other serious debilitating mental illness or in poor physical health (like so many victims of childhood abuse) yet somehow I choose to fight for my life and escaped some of the worst outcomes of being an abused child and family member. What about you?

[So Stressed]

This is what I fear will happen to me. I have an abusive mother and I have become the family scapegoat. I am 71 and my mom is still alive, and I fear that the constant criticism and abuse will take me down before my time.  Some days are better than others.  My mother is currently behaving quite peacefully and is being civil to me.  However, I am feeling quite down for the last few days...I am tired and low. I call Mom every day...I used to say "I love you" at the end of the conversation, but it fell on silence and she can't say it back, so I decided to stop punishing myself by saying it and I don't anymore. I think it but I know if I say it, she can't say it back.

I may have made a huge mistake a few years ago by moving closer to Mom so I could help her.  I did it in good faith thinking that I would be able to help her because I would be nearby and she is very old.  However, that didn't mean that I was giving up my life, friends, relationships, job, holidays.  It meant that I would be closer to support her.  My family seems to have assumed that meant that I was going to be solely responsible for her and all her care and that it would take precedence over anything in my life.  I didn't agree to that and no one asked me.  They just assumed it.  I still work and there has been constant pressure to take time off from work to do things for Mom, quit so I have more time for her, etc. I set boundaries and do my job, but sometimes, I get warn down and just do what she wants because it is easier in the moment. 

My only sibling says it is my responsibility to take care of Mom...not sure why that is. It isn't logical.  But, because I live closer, I expect to do more.  I just expect to have a life.  And, if my sibling doesn't want to participate, then we just need to make other arrangements when I am not available.  My sibling is Mom's "golden child" who can do no wrong, and the two of them talk about me when they are together. I think that is why I am feeling down today...I am away and my sibling is going to go and spend some time with Mom (unwillingly) and they will spend time talking about how selfish, useless, mean, whatever...that I am.  Then, when I return, Mom will be mad at me again, and so the cycle continues.

They tell me that I am selfish, mean, don't have any friends, etc.  These things are not actually true.  My therapist tells me that they are projecting their own flaws onto me, and that sounds about right, but I don't really understand it.  For example, I have lots of friends that I've had for a lifetime; my sibling has very few friends. My close friends do not think that I am mean or selfish...they say I am the opposite. 

I just feel so sad that our family has deteriorated to such a state. I do not see how it will ever be repaired. Mom has always been challenging, but at her advanced age it has become much more challenging.  And, my sibling used to be very compliant and just did as told by Mom. Now, I think that all my sibling's resentment is directed at me for some reason, which I do not understand. I think that we could support each other to take care of Mom instead of being enemies, but my sibling has so much anger that it is scary.

[zachira]

So Stressed,
You have expressed what so many others fear: that their abusive mother will outlive them. You also have a golden child sibling who enables your mother which is pretty common in abusive families as well. My BPD mother who is deceased and lived to a very old age could never stop badmouthing people behind their backs including an endless list of people who were kind and generous to her who were not family. It seems that the people bashing, especially of close family members, is how they cope with not facing how badly they feel inside. It is projection like your therapist says though it is challenging to manage the overwhelming feelings in intensity and length of time when we are in regular contact with our abusive family members, especially a mother. My golden child sister is my worst nightmare and I am working on completely cutting her out of my life. I am glad you have so many wonderful long time friends and a therapist who is helping you. Having an abusive family, especially an abusive mother, is a life long sorrow. We have to manage the pain of this in small increments that don't overwhelm us, while gradually increasing the time we spend feeling better. I too have my bad days when I am feeling sadder and more depressed about how my abusive family behaves, though mostly good days most of the time now. I recently read that the average age for admitting being sexually abused is in the late forties and early fifties. There are so many seniors out there trying to deal with the emotional abuse they have suffered in childhood and throughout life, which can be just as debilitating as sexual abuse. Part of being a senior, is reviewing the kind of life we have lived, and talking about it. I try to focus on the many people who have been kind and generous to me throughout my life and there are many of them, mostly people who are not family. We are here to support you in your journey. Keep us posted on how you are doing. There is no such thing as posting too much, and there are many members who have been on this site for many years.

[Couscous]

They tell me that I am selfish, mean, don't have any friends, etc.  These things are not actually true. 

They are bullies, plain and simple. Tearing you down makes them feel better about themselves, and it reduces their stress levels, but it does so at your expense. Because of this they have no incentive to stop treating you this way.

Nobody should have to endure bullying from their so-called family, EVER and you do not deserve to be treated this way by virtue of being a human being.

As painful in the short-term as this might be, going no contact with your family is something you might want to begin considering. I hope your therapist will be able to help you with this, and moving back to where you livd before might be something seriously worth considering.

[Methuen]

The thought has occurred to me that my mom could outlive me too.  I don't really believe it (mom's 86 and I'm 60), but I have known several people who got diagnosed with terminal illness, and pass away from 3 weeks to 3 months later, so I am old enough to know that anything can happen. My mom's father (her abuser) lived until he was 98.  My mom and 1 (of 7) sibling(s) have his BPD nature, but not as bad (he was a monster), so longevity is in the family.  I just try to consistently eat healthy, exercise lots, use my meditation app when I can't sleep (almost every night), and as to managing the stress - this is the hardest for me as I live very close to my mother - and she's the monkey that hangs on for dear life and never gets off my back.

So Stressed, you do sound tired and feeling low.   You also mention "I call mom every day". Here's a question, and I'm asking it genuinely: why do you call her every day?  That is a lot.  Can you list the reasons for that?

I also did this 20 years ago.  There were many reasons for this, but the biggest is that she trained me to do it.  Somewhere along the line, I slowly weaned her off of that.  I would probably be in a padded room if I was still trying to do that now.  

Just because your family has absconded their share of the responsibility doesn't mean you should pick up their share.  If you keep doing more, they are going to keep doing less and less.  If you start to do a little less now, they may or may not start to do a little more, but at least you will have more control of your own life.  

I don't have any other family.  I am an only child.  It has been a hard hard hard journey for me to learn to do less because of the obligation and guilt, and societal expectations.  

After my mom's first fall, I tended her 3-5 hours a day for over 4 weeks.  Like you, I did it to be helpful.  However, her BPD thinking and behaviors made it so that I was in a state of constant fear and traumatic distress, and I ended up going to her doctor and getting home care involved because I was falling apart.  Eventually she cancelled the home care, but by then she wasn't used to having me around as much, and I held that boundary.  Since then she has fallen 2 more times.  Every time I get home care involved before they release her from hospital emergency.  I confidentially give the emerg doctor enough info to explain that I cannot be her sole caretaker in recovery, and that she has received home care in past.  So they set up home care from the hospital before she is discharged from emerg, although she cancels it the first chance she gets, but that's on her.  I don't do things for her in the place of home care.  I can't.  It's a bottomless pit.  She has to find someone to do them.

Is your mom at a place in her life where she currently receives any home care?  Is it available where you are, or is this something she would even agree to?  I mean, you are 71, and are entitled to your own time and retirement as a 71 year old.  My mom now refuses all home care for any reason, but I have left it up to her to find her own replacements.  She has nurtured a lifetime of friends (the caring and caregiving type), so she obligates them to meet her needs.  She pays them to do stuff for her.  They are going to have to find their own boundaries when they need to.  I don't generally see them.  She's also hired a private care aide to give her a bath, and treat her wounds.  I can't do those things, or put in that kind of time on top of what H and I already do.

Bottom line - we decided what we could do, and that is our boundary.  Anything else she needs, she has to arrange on her own.  If she wants to live independently, she can do that right?  She puts pressure on us to make her phone calls eg. she just hands us her phone and tells us to make the call for her!  My H tells her point blank that she needs to keep her skills and the only way to do that is to make her own phone calls.  If she can't do that, how can she live alone and take care of herself?  She's such a manipulative waif...

Despite having pretty hard boundaries, I still have the low spells you are talking about. It's emotionally exhausting because there is no end in sight.  And yes, as they age, it just gets worse as their condition worsens.  But I don't believe we can take responsibility for their decisions.  What I mean by that, is I don't believe we should have to work harder or suffer spending more time around their abusive behavior, because they chose to live independently.  As their needs increase, they can be responsible for finding the adaptations they need to live - such as housecleaners, bath assists, etc.  H and I do a lot of support - for example the next thing on my list is to find a "bed assist handle" so I will arrange that for her.  But she still has to get herself out of bed...

I still work and there has been constant pressure to take time off from work to do things for Mom, quit so I have more time for her, etc. I set boundaries and do my job, but sometimes, I get warn down and just do what she wants because it is easier in the moment.  

This is only easier in the moment, but in the long run, she's training you to do more.  Is this sustainable for you?  What strategies could you use so that you don't just "give in and do what she wants"?  

I am sorry that your family has absconded, and left you holding the bag.  They probably don't want to spend time around her, but that doesn't help you.  I'm really sorry that they aren't more supportive of you.  They could do more to go you a break right?  It's not just about her, but also about you.

What can you do to show yourself compassion, and take care of yourself all of the time, but especially when you are feeling worn down like this?

My only sibling says it is my responsibility to take care of Mom...not sure why that is. It isn't logical.  But, because I live closer, I expect to do more.  I just expect to have a life.  And, if my sibling doesn't want to participate, then we just need to make other arrangements when I am not available.  My sibling is Mom's "golden child" who can do no wrong, and the two of them talk about me when they are together. I think that is why I am feeling down today...I am away and my sibling is going to go and spend some time with Mom (unwillingly) and they will spend time talking about how selfish, useless, mean, whatever...that I am.  Then, when I return, Mom will be mad at me again, and so the cycle continues.

They tell me that I am selfish, mean, don't have any friends, etc.  These things are not actually true.  My therapist tells me that they are projecting their own flaws onto me, and that sounds about right, but I don't really understand it.  For example, I have lots of friends that I've had for a lifetime; my sibling has very few friends. My close friends do not think that I am mean or selfish...they say I am the opposite.  

I just feel so sad that our family has deteriorated to such a state. I do not see how it will ever be repaired. Mom has always been challenging, but at her advanced age it has become much more challenging.  And, my sibling used to be very compliant and just did as told by Mom. Now, I think that all my sibling's resentment is directed at me for some reason, which I do not understand. I think that we could support each other to take care of Mom instead of being enemies, but my sibling has so much anger that it is scary.

When your sibling told you it was your responsibility to look after your mom,  you were probably in a state of shock.  Next time she says that, you could look very confused, and calmly ask "why?"  

Don't get into an arguement.  Do stay very calm.  Looking confused   Humour?    

If your sibling and mom triangulate against you, step off that triangle.  If your mom is mad at you after the visit with the sibling, you don't want to reward that bad behavior by trying to be super nice and helpful to your mom.  Instead, give her some space and time to soothe herself, and start to "miss" what you do for her.  This could take days or even weeks.  We call it low contact or no contact, and the point is to give you time to recover from your distress, and also to give her time to self-soothe and regulate her own thoughts and emotions after the visit from your sibling.

In my experience, my mom treats me better when I do less for her, because she's afraid of losing whatever I do.  It's like walking a tightrope.  The more I do for her, the worse she treats me.  It took me a very long time to learn and accept that, because it's so counterintuitive.

They tell me that I am selfish, mean, don't have any friends, etc.  These things are not actually true.  My therapist tells me that they are projecting their own flaws onto me, and that sounds about right, but I don't really understand it.  

My mom has screamed at me repeatedly that I am selfish, just like your mom.  They won't look in the mirror...  I have spent my career and life giving and caring for others including her, and you also sound like a very "giving" person.  Just the fact that you moved closer to your mom thinking you could provide support.  I'm certain you never thought it could end up like this...neither did I.

As for projection, think of it like this:  When we are sick, we throw up and get rid of the poison in our stomach that is making us sick.  In the case of BPD, the poison is their own feelings about themselves.  Those feelings build and build, until they are so sick they have to expel them like vomit, so they rage on us and call us selfish and without friends (which is really their own bad feelings about themselves).  We call that "dumping" or "verbal vomit" here.  Once they scream those things at us, they feel better again because they've got rid of their poison.  They've projected the truth about themselves onto someone else.  They don't care that they've dumped it on us (their own kids), as long as they feel better.  The whole incident gets swept under the carpet like it never happened, and they can never talk about it and never apologize.  Does any of that resonate?

Sorry this post is so long, but I can really relate to what you are experiencing.  Do NOT get trapped into becoming your mom's "long term care" plan.  This has been, and still is, a struggle that has left me hopeless and feeling helpless at times.  If I could only help one person not make the same mistakes I made...of thinking that if I do more, mom will love and appreciate me.  They don't and won't because they can't.  And we shouldn't ask them to give something they aren't capable of.

I haven't gone NC because I just wouldn't feel good about myself.  I still care for her and want to support her.  But I also have to take care of myself, because she isn't capable of empathy, or thinking about me.  There is no reciprocal relationship of give and take - no "bond". For her, my purpose is to meet her needs.  Nothing else.  For other people on this forum, an important way to take care of themself is to go NC.  Each situation is unique because we are all different, and our pwBPD are all different.

Use the strategies that work for you, but do practice self-compassion and self care.  

Hoping you start to feel better soon.

[Mommydoc]

Zachira, this is a great post. 

Part of being a senior, is reviewing the kind of life we have lived, and talking about it. I try to focus on the many people who have been kind and generous to me throughout my life and there are many of them, mostly people who are not family.

What a great perspective. Your comment resonates because I just finished a course on Appreciative Inquiry. Though it is not the end all/be all, I did find myself recognizing that it allows us to focus forward on what we want, by reflecting on what skills and strengths we have and where we want to go.  The “word vomit” our family members  dump on us, is the opposite.  I used to try to respond, explain, “work through” the conflict, but it is impossible to do so.  We don’t get to choose our FOO that we are born or adopted into, but we can choose who we spend time with, who we share our feelings with, and where we put our energy.  I am finding that the more energy I put into myself, my feelings and my “chosen” family and friends, my vision for my life, the more positive my life is and the easier it is to set boundaries.

SoStressed, asking yourself questions such as might help you shift away from your sibling and your mother to yourself.
-what was a moment or experience when I felt like my best self
-what strengths did I exhibit
-what makes me the happiest ( how can I do more of that)
-what do I enjoy most
-who are my favorite people and how do they make me feel about myself ( can I spend more time with them?)

In my situation, it is my sibling with BPD, and like you I am the “in town” caregiver for my mom.  My sibling also assumes everything is my responsibility and has unrealistic expectations of me, but still lashes out because I don’t involve her enough  or keep her updated enough, even though all she does is rant and criticize.  I am really trying to ask the questions above of myself so that, I can focus my energy towards the life I want going forward.


 

[madeline7]

My uBPD Mom is nearing her mid nineties and me and my siblings are mid to late sixties and early 70's, so yep, it could happen. I am so grateful I got T, and found support groups, this one included, and made a move just a little further away and finally followed through with boundary setting. I used to call every other day, now it's every other week. I used to visit 1-2 times a week, now it's once every 2 months or so. And never visit alone. Still, I want to experience the freedom of a life without the need to assert boundaries, and this thought terrifies me.

[Methuen]

Still, I want to experience the freedom of a life without the need to assert boundaries, and this thought terrifies me.

This. The thought of this luxury almost brings me to tears.  But I am happy for those that have it, to enjoy.

[Riv3rW0lf]

This. The thought of this luxury almost brings me to tears.  But I am happy for those that have it, to enjoy.

I don't think anyone has that, to be honest. I think we have a very hardcore version of boundary setting, but that mainly, the reason it is SO hard for us to do, is because we were raised not to have any from day zero.

But boundaries are natural, everyone has them, and everyone puts them in place all the time, and everyone has to deal with other people infringing upon their boundaries once in a while, and everyone gets stressed about it, but not everyone will immediately assume their boundaries are the issue (which is what we tend to revert to, we feel guilty and ashamed of our own needs).

What other people (for whom boundary setting seem so natural that it almost looks like freedom) have that we don't are: a healthy fight response and confidence (which I consider very different than self-esteem). They don't doubt their own boundaries, they are comfortable setting them and they don't think twice about it.

Boundaries are part of life. What we lack is confidence and the assurance we have a right to take care of our needs without feeling guilty about it.

[Methuen]

I want to experience the freedom of a life without the need to assert boundaries

While I can't speak for Madeline7, I have known many people over my lifespan who were able to enjoy (what I referred to as the luxury) of the freedom to a life without the need to assert the kinds of boundaries we find ourselves needing to assert with our BPD parents on this forum.   While no parent is perfect, it is not normal to have to assert the kind of boundaries we need to assert to feel emotionally or physically safe.  The ultimate boundary for many here is NC. For others (like me) the boundaries are lesser than NC, but still necessary (and painful).

Remarkably, my two best friends have what I think of as this "luxury".  Neither one of these friends needs to use boundaries with a parent.  I'm speculating, but knowing their situations as I do, it's probably because their parents have healthy boundaries of their own, and don't make the demands our parents do.  They don't FOG their kids.

One has been a lifelong friend (our parents were friends before either of us were born).  She and her mom truly have a relationship based on honesty, mutual respect, and love, and they genuinely enjoy spending time together.  I have also known her mother my whole life.  From my perspective this would be the Hallmark mother, despite the fact she is not a perfect person because no human is.  But the relationship is a genuinely healthy one.  This friend is not aware of the dynamic between my mother and myself because I choose not to talk about it.  Her mom and my mom are friends.

Another best friend also enjoys what I refer to as this "luxury" of a healthy relationship with her mom.  Her mom lives about 800 miles away, and I have never met her mother.  But I have known my friend for about 32 years and have enjoyed listening to the stories and hearing her speak about her mom.  It was another way I knew my mom was "different".  This friend knows a little bit about my story with my mom.  But it is hard for her to comprehend because she does not have a BPD mother.  She only knows her own lived experience and has a kind of "dreamy" belief that all mothers are loving and would sacrifice themselves for their children simply because they are mothers.  She believes it "comes with the job".  She is herself a mother. Her lived experience with her own mother is that of having a healthy relationship with all the ups and downs of a normal healthy (Hallmark type) relationship with her mom. At the end of the day, there is honesty and mutual respect and safety and love.  There is no toxicity that comes from one person's distorted thinking and sense of abandonment, rage, blaming, zero awareness etc.  When there are conflicts, they can be resolved, and both people can take ownership.  Our mother's can't do this.

I am truly happy for both of them (and their mothers) that they get to share this mutual respect and equality and safe love.  

While no family is perfect, I believe there are many more people who have a safe relationship with a parent than those who don't.  Having a safe relationship doesn't mean there aren't sometimes rough waters.  I believe every family has rough waters because life throws curve balls and conflict is normal.  But at the end of the day, not every parent has disordered thinking, and not every parent relationship needs the kind of boundaries that we find ourselves needing to use.

So I do believe that many people have the freedom to enjoy a life without the kinds of boundaries that we need to employ with our parent.  But RW is right that over a lifespan, everyone uses boundaries at some time, if not with family, then with friends, coworkers, in volunteering capacities, or other places.  Boundaries are healthy.  Our challenge is managing boundaries with a family member who hurts us.

But I still come back to the beauty of a relationship with a parent (or a friend) where the kind of boundaries we have had to learn, are simply not necessary.  That has been my vision of what I hope my kids feel, and my friends too!  I think it would be a terrible thing for the people who know me to feel they have to put boundaries in place to feel safe with me.  

[Riv3rW0lf]

But RW is right that over a lifespan, everyone uses boundaries at some time, if not with family, then with friends, coworkers, in volunteering capacities, or other places.  Boundaries are healthy.  Our challenge is managing boundaries with a family member who hurts us.

I feel I need to clarify myself... What I meant is that... Because it was so hard for us to assert ourselves with our BPD parent, setting boundaries, in general, feels much more challenging for us than it should be. For me anyway. I find my stress level skyrockets every time I need to assert a boundary with anyone, and it used to make me awfully anxious. For me, asserting a boundary can be as simple as saying no to a friend, or a neighbor. I am getting better at it though, but it seems still harder for me than it is for most of the people I know, my H included. I do it, but it costs me in terms of stress.

Even looking at my daughter... She puts boundaries in place with me, with her father, with her little brother, with her friends... I know they will come more naturally to her than they are for me, because I have been listening and respecting her boundaries from day zero...she is confident that she can stand up for herself.

For me, asserting myself always came with high anxiety and stress. But many things, in the past few years have been helping me A LOT with assertion. What I am unsure about is if I could own those new skills with BPD mother now.

I guess what I meant is : boundaries are a natural thing for most people. But they are something we, because of our disordered parent, need to learn.

Most people assert themselves all the time without thinking twice about it, and if they encounter some resistance, they are a bit surprised but it doesn't shake them all that much... Being authentic is, to me, some kind of assertion and it has to do with naturally acting out our boundaries without fear, because there will always be "outside pressure" trying to "mold me" into what they want to see in the world.

[Methuen]

Because it was so hard for us to assert ourselves with our BPD parent, setting boundaries, in general, feels much more challenging for us than it should be. For me anyway. I find my stress level skyrockets every time I need to assert a boundary with anyone, and it used to make me awfully anxious. I am getting better at it though, but it seems still harder for me than it is for most of the people I know, my H included.

For me, asserting myself always came with high anxiety and stress. But many things, in the past few years have been helping me A LOT with assertion. What I am unsure about is if I could own those new skills with BPD mother now.

I guess what I meant is : boundaries are a natural thing for most people. But they are something we, because of our disordered parent, need to learn.

Ah yes!  Boundaries have been incredibly hard for me to learn too.  I completely agree with you RW. The anxiety and stress...

I would be interested to know how many of us fawned over our BPD parent to keep the peace.  We became people pleasers.  As such, it's probably harder for many of us to say "no" than it is for people who did not grow up with our BPD environment.

You ask a good question about whether or not you could own those new skills with your BPD mother.  Since I live in the same town as my mom, I think I've made progress, but my brain is conditioned to panic when she says or demands something that triggers me.  Even when I respond with a BIFF boundary in the moment, it can take me days or a week to recover afterwards.  My trauma brain is my trauma brain, even if my cognitive brain knows what to do in the moment.  

On the other hand, I haven't really had to use many boundaries to their fullest, because my H God Bless Him, took over her grocery shopping and taking her to appointments, so she has almost zero access to me.  Even when I go to her house, I go with him, so I haven't had to employ those learned skills the way I would have if I didn't have my H.  

I have thought about your question in my own situation, and I don't think I have the answer.  

The only way to know is to try, and that of course comes with risk.  It's the old risk-benefit analysis.  It might be worth it to just dip the big toe in the water to test the temperature, but not jump in with the whole body, if that makes sense.  

Baby steps, if you decide you want to try.  At the end of the day, they are who they are, they aren't go to change, and we have to accept that wholly.  It's us that must do 100% of the work, and to quote Zachira, it's a lifelong sorrow.

[Riv3rW0lf]

My trauma brain is my trauma brain, even if my cognitive brain knows what to do in the moment.  

Yes. This is also how I feel. My BPD mother just triggers me back directly into my traumatized child self, and while I can manage this part when I am by myself or in an environment I consider safe, it is something else entirely when the main threat that traumatized me in the first place is right in front of me.

This is why I identified so much with the C-PTSD concept, and why I think this is a lifelong condition that can be managed well, but not fully cured.

[Couscous]

According to this thought-provoking video from Jerry Wise, in order to develop internal boundaries, we need to break the “caring rule” and start caring less about others: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMuSnkIYTKc

[madeline7]

I'd like to add that what is probably as important and maybe even more important to me is to have the freedom to just live my authentic life without being consumed with thoughts of my mother. Should I call her, will she be in a good mood, should I visit, etc etc... Since fortifying my boundaries, she is taking up less space in my head. I will probably be dealing with the fallout of having a borderline mother for the rest of my life, but I still imagine it may be a little different if and when she is no longer here.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Since fortifying my boundaries, she is taking up less space in my head. I will probably be dealing with the fallout of having a borderline mother for the rest of my life, but I still imagine it may be a little different if and when she is no longer here.

I am no contact right now, but this is also very true for me as well. Even in no contact, I will have intrusive thoughts about her and stepfather. It is becoming easier and easier to chase them away. I am at a point now where I think I could enter low contact, but H doesn't want her in our children's life. So it is a bit complicated on that front, seeing how all my BPD mother wants is not to see us, but to be in our children's life.

I also feel it will make things easier when she passed, because the "power of the choice" will be gone. But I think the guilttrip will come from my brother when that happens. I feel like there will be a simple shift and I will hear about it for the rest of my life anyway. So I am making peace with the idea that "I am their egoist, narcissistic, hurtful monster". It doesn't keep me from living my life and putting good in the world anymore. I know who I am now. 

[Methuen]

I'd like to add that what is probably as important and maybe even more important to me is to have the freedom to just live my authentic life without being consumed with thoughts of my mother. Should I call her, will she be in a good mood, should I visit, etc etc... Since fortifying my boundaries, she is taking up less space in my head. I will probably be dealing with the fallout of having a borderline mother for the rest of my life, but I still imagine it may be a little different if and when she is no longer here.

yes.  Madeleine7 you’ve just described the thoughts that are in my head every day .  I wish they would go away but they don’t. This is one of the many ways she sucks the joy out of my life.  She has capacity to make terrible decisions (like not letting home care administer her eye drops and not wearing her lifeline) and yet society holds me responsible for her and judges me.  Society also knows zero about how our mothers have treated us. So I completely get where you are coming from.  

[Couscous]

I will probably be dealing with the fallout of having a borderline mother for the rest of my life, but I still imagine it may be a little different if and when she is no longer here.

From what I’ve heard it doesn’t make much if any difference when a toxic mother passes on, because our mothers aren’t really the problem.

The real problem that most of us face is the we have developed a cruel, harsh inner critic who sabotages our efforts at setting boundaries, because boundaries = rejection, and this is why we developed our inner critic in the first place.

Never mind the fact that our mothers or other family members are happy to shame us for our boundaries, our own inner voice is more than happy to do the exact same thing.

So what we really need to do first and foremost is to begin setting very strict internal boundaries on our inner critic. I think that once we can do that it will become a whole lot easier to set external boundaries with our mothers.