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Author Topic: Fear  (Read 668 times)
So Stressed
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« on: February 07, 2023, 09:11:18 AM »

One of the most upsetting things about my relationship with my BPD Mom is how afraid I am of her.  Her anger is so scary and she is so cruel that I have lived a lifetime trying not to disobey, or not do what she doesn't like, or to appease her, or try to make her happy.  What ends up is that I live in fear most of the time.  I know that is not a grown up response, but it started a lifetime ago. 

One of the first memories that I have about my relationship with my BPD mother is that she was laying in bed ... she had been in the hospital, but she was home recovering ... I was about 3, and no one was looking after me, so I told her I wanted to go and live with the neighbours next door.   I guess she put my coat and hat on and let me out, and I went next door and played with the kids there, but then when I came home, I was locked out of the house and when I rang the bell, my Mom wouldn't let me in because she said I had chosen to live next door.

I grew up doing what I thought she would want rather than trying to be me. Now, I set boundaries, and mostly live my life according to what I want to do, but I still have that fear of her anger and retaliation. So, for now, I am out of town, and I usually call her every day.  For the last two days, I just ran out of time. I was busy and I didn't call her.  (That's another problem, I guess...why do I call her every day?)  Now, I am terrified to call today. My mom is not just mean; she's cruel.

Since realizing that she has some mental health issues, and is probably BPD, I am more aware and set boundaries and do what I want to do for me, but a lifetime of bullying and abuse has left its mark and I am afraid.

And, actually, the worst has happened because she has turned my only sibling and remaining family member against me, so I have no family support ... except for here and my therapist.  Mom always triangulated and manipulated. I realized at some point a long time ago that the only relationships I had with my father and my sibling were mediated by Mom.  I didn't often get to talk directly with either of them ... mostly always through her. 

I don't really know where I am going with this post, but I guess my purpose is to hear if others on this site experience fear and to share how to overcome/deal with it.

Thanks for listening.
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Methuen
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2023, 10:46:40 AM »

You are acknowledging your fear of your mom.  She uses your fear to control you, and it is a form of manipulation to have her own needs met. She trained you well.  Locking a child out of the home at the age of 3 sent a powerful message about who was in control, and whose needs mattered. She wasn’t listening when you said you wanted to live next door.  Your needs didn’t matter, but hers did.  A healthy mom would have asked “how come”? And turned it into a dialogue that would end in a hug.  Clearly you were parentified to look after her.

We all understand this. 

So sorry for your loss. 

I completely understand your fear. After one of mom’s episodes, I remember sitting in T’s office and just describing it all to T put me back in that place of fear.  She listened and then she was quiet, followed by telling me that for two weeks she didn’t want me to have contact with my mom because my amygdala was in alarm mode and needed two weeks to calm down. 

This precedent of calling your mom every day sounds like a problem to work on with your T.

You were trained to look after your mom’s needs.  It is time for you to give yourself permission to look after your needs.

Does your mom have friends?  My mom always boasted about her friends.  So I gradually let her friends take over some of her “caretaking”.  It is important to ease the transition calmly, and find a way to make it her idea.  Guided questions or motivational interviewing can help with this.  Her friends are her peer group.  It just makes sense.  It doesn’t make sense for us to burn ourselves out.  You get to choose how much you will do and when you will do it.  There will be push back, but you will survive that too.

Getting to that is a process.  But a good time to start is after you get back from your trip, because she is already used to not having you around.  What you shouldn’t do is jump back in to your old caretaking mode once you get home. 

Guaranteed that she has been using people to have her needs met while you were gone.  So give her the opportunity to keep solving her own problems once you get back home.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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Riv3rW0lf
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2023, 12:55:49 PM »

Fear. Yes. This is my main emotion when it comes to my BPD mother. I am scared of her, and on high-alert whenever she is around.

For me, no contact has showed me that, sadly enough, the fear had translated in other areas of my life under the guise of social anxiety. Or... Example : ordered a drink in a coffee shop, there was a discount on a specific one, which I requested, the lady makes me pay and charges me the full price, I pointed out there was a mistake, she raised her voice and started acting out, I got triggered, lowered my voice and paid the full price. Left angry and scared.

My mother trained me to freeze when someone gets agitated, even strangers. I got home and my husband was like : "why would you let someone talk to you like that? She makes coffee for a living, you are a professional. Get a grip!" Sorry I don't mean it in an offensive way by the way, I don't judge people who works in the service industry, this is what he said, though, to make me realize I wasn't as assertive as someone in my field should be, that I had to somehow channel the confidence of my title into all situations. Act like the confident adult I should be. This is also the advice my T gave me. I tried. A lot. But everytime someone would raise their voice at me, or berate me, I'd back down, stressed and anxious. My mind knew what was happening and wanted to say something, but MY BODY was shutting down. It truly felt like the response was from my body, not my mind.

I now believe some people internalize the fear so much as children, they lose their fight response, and later on, it manifests as a big lack of confidence and of assertiveness, resulting in an automatic body freezing response whenever there is a threat.  

Crazy thing... Started taking martial arts one month ago... One month... Didn't take very long. Two weeks ago, someone started acting out at the store, and I stayed put and was assertive. I wasn't disrespectful, but I wasn't going to allow someone to be disrespectful toward me either. My voice changed, I felt confident, I felt different. She backed down. I wished her a good day. I didn't end up her scapegoat, I stood up.

Martial arts, for me, is a somatic experience that gives the chance to my body to work under stress and "threat". Some sparring can feel quite real, and I survived them all, and I am less and less fragile, everytime I attend a class. Plus there is a community effect that is quite healing. It also desensitized me to touch quite immensely, and I actually enjoy it now, even from strangers. I don't feel as stressed by it. I used to panic whenever I got a massage, and get real anxious. Well, I went to the physio this morning, and for the first time ever, I didn't mind it at all and felt quite comfortable being touched and massaged. A very new thing for me.

Ultimately, for me anyway, it was a matter of triggering and owning my fight response, of getting it back, not just psychologically, but physically. Would it work in front of my BPD mother? Maybe when I get my blue belt...  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Otherwise, I am not sure what could help... Is there a specific area of your life that makes you feel real confident about yourself? T said to channel those confident parts. For me, this didn't work... But it might for you.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 01:09:45 PM by Riv3rW0lf » Logged
Couscous
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2023, 03:56:27 PM »

I was able to overcome my fear of my mother when I said “no” to her, for the first time in my life, three months ago. I also did a grounding exercise immediately afterwards which enabled me to avoid having a panic attack.

Amazingly, the world didn’t come to an end, and a few days later she emailed me as if nothing had happened.

I called her on Christmas Day briefly, and she immediately invited me to play my old role as her Rescuer on the drama triangle, but I politely declined her invitation, and I haven’t heard a word from her since. I assume she’s trying to give me the silent-treatment, but I genuinely could not care less. She might never speak to me again (as her mother did with her), but that’s her loss and not mine. Honestly, it has freed up so much of time and energy to not be in communication with her and I’m quite enjoying it. Smiling (click to insert in post)

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zanyapple
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2023, 05:25:24 PM »

I can totally relate to your story. I used to call my mom daily too, but ever since I realized how toxic she is and how she's impacting my life negatively, I made less contact with her. I know it's hard since you're used to it, but allow yourself to ease into it.

Daily calls with her became weekly, now it's only really once every few weeks or when I need something. Once you do this, of course she'll notice it and she'll likely create drama and make you feel bad for not calling her. Don't fall into this trap. Don't allow her to control your life. Just remember, no news is good news, so if she doesn't reach out to you in a while, there's nothing to worry about. I used to always want to check on my parents to ensure they're safe (they live overseas), but I realized I should not burden myself with this responsibility. They are adults and should be able to manage taking care of themselves.
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So Stressed
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2023, 11:28:20 AM »

Thanks for your comments related to fear of BPD moms.  I am so afraid of my Mom.  I guess she did train me well to stay in line and do what she wants because the consequences of not doing what she wants have always been horrible.  Cruelty, meanness, and then I feel so inadequate and unloved. I try really hard not to upset her because when she says cruel things, you can't really unhear those, and it is pretty devastating sometimes. Sadly, because of her age, I feel that someone needs to check on mom daily; hence the daily calls to her.  No one else is going to do it and my only sibling has said that she is my responsibility.

What I don't understand is that the golden sibling said that right out loud...no responsibility for Mom, and that is still her golden child.  No effect on Mom whatsoever. In her mind, I am the one who is not doing enough for her.

I learned a lot in many years of attending alanon, such as setting boundaries, detaching with love, not getting baited into arguments, stating what I need with kindness, etc.  But, I just didn't realize that my Mom wasn't normal until I moved closer to her in the last few years. There was always some geographic distance before.   And, it wasn't really until after Mom's partner asked me if she had a history of being bipolar that I started to realize that she wasn't just mean or "challenging" as I always refer to her ... there was something wrong and we just didn't really see it because there was also an alcoholic in the family and it was just a crazy place.  And, maybe she is bipolar, too, who knows? But, it was when I started to read about the BPD mother that I related.

It is no wonder that my father drank.  Interestingly, he always seemed like the problem, but after he passed away, I realized that he had a calming effect on Mom and her moods and emotions were much more out of control after Dad was gone.  And, when she met her new partner, he did not have a calming effect on Mom at all. In the end, she blew up his family and none of them speak to her now.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2023, 04:05:09 AM »

Thanks for your comments related to fear of BPD moms.  I am so afraid of my Mom.  I guess she did train me well to stay in line and do what she wants because the consequences of not doing what she wants have always been horrible.  Cruelty, meanness, and then I feel so inadequate and unloved. I try really hard not to upset her because when she says cruel things, you can't really unhear those, and it is pretty devastating sometimes. Sadly, because of her age, I feel that someone needs to check on mom daily; hence the daily calls to her.  No one else is going to do it and my only sibling has said that she is my responsibility.

What I don't understand is that the golden sibling said that right out loud...no responsibility for Mom, and that is still her golden child.  No effect on Mom whatsoever. In her mind, I am the one who is not doing enough for her.



I can relate to the fear. I think I may have confused love with fear growing up, as fear is the main emotion I felt towards my mother when I was growing up.

Less so now, as I have done work in 12 step groups as well. I can say no to her but her response is difficult. No doesn't mean much to her as she persists and one has to repeatedly say no several times. The three personas in the book about borderline mothers fit the usual scenario. Her first request is usually an order, or demand- in Queen persona. It's also a sort of warning as you know what happens next if you say no and it's Witch- cruel. Then she will get sad, and hurt and Waify- which is difficult, she is an elderly woman now. Who is cruel to an elderly woman? It's hard to not feel like some horrible person when she does that. It's all manipulation though, she can change personas in an instant. What is difficult too is that, she is elderly and does need assistance and it's hard to know what is a real need and what is her need to control and manipulate.

Golden Child is involved with BPD mother too, but neither of us live very close to her so she has hired assistance at home. We are both apprehensive of her behaviors and moods. It's apparent that GC and my mother have a closer relationship.

There also seemed to be an expectation from my parents and my mother's extended family that I would be the one to take on the main responsibility for her care after my father passed away, and initially, when he first became ill, I stepped up to try to do that and help them both. Since I had not lived at home for many years, had my own family, my main contact had been visits, usually with my family. This time, I stayed alone with them for several days, and alone in the house with BPD mother when my father had a hospital stay. I don't think I had been alone with BPD mother like this for several days since I was a teen ager. I had assumed she was doing better since I hadn't seen these behaviors since I moved out for college and I wasn't prepared for her behaviors during that time.

I don't know how to describe it except that she was out of control. After that, I realized that this was beyond my ability to manage. I began to have boundaries. My parents got angry at me, apparently I didn't meet their expectations. Although my father didn't drink to cope, I really don't know how he managed this, but he did a lot of emotional caretaking and enabling for her.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 04:19:19 AM by Notwendy » Logged
NarcsEverywhere
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2023, 06:50:25 AM »

Hey So Stressed,

That must be quite traumatizing for a 3 year old child to get abandoned, and locked out of your own home. These things tend to stick with you. I remember one memory where I was like 4 or 5, and it was late at night, and my codependent Mom was next door drinking with the neighbor, and I was outside screaming for her and crying, when my NDad came home. I believe that experience really instilled a strong fear of abandonment in my young brain.

I do experience fear of my NDad, he's like a time bomb, and he's irrational and gets set off from all sorts of things, who knows what's coming when, or what he's gonna do? That's a scary prospect... I am stuck living with him. Sounds like you feel very obligated with your Mom. Why do you feel this way? Is it a sense of duty, since she is your Mom? Is it pity? Is it that you want to try to smooth things over to have a relationship with your siblings? Or loneliness? I know the loneliness gets super hard for me.

I am basically in the same boat here, I have zero support, save for this place, another support group online, and my counselor. I'm also heavily isolated because of agoraphobia. It sucks to be so alone with a bunch of insanity. To be estranged from your family, because your NParent pitted your family against you, same thing probably happened with me and my sister. Also, how they try to suck all your energy is isolating, because then you have less time for your wants, needs and for other people.
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So Stressed
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2023, 10:53:08 AM »

Narcseverywhere, I am sorry to read about your isolation.  Glad that this and another support group and your therapist are there for you.

It is painful to have no family, although I find it is also painful to have such a dysfunctional one. I remember a saying that "Friends are the family we choose for ourselves," and I try to remember to be grateful for a lot of really good friends in my life.

I don't see that I will ever be able to patch up my relationship with my sibling.  It has been blown apart by Mom and by my sibling.  I remember a long time ago having a BPD friend come into my life...that was when I first became aware of this disorder ... and she split up 2 longtime friendships I really valued.  I remember thinking that while she was trying, I didn't think it would be possible for her to come between me and 2 lifelong friends, but she was able to blow up those friendships, which I valued so much.  I see my Mom has created a lot of trouble and will continue to triangulate and cause grief with my sibling, so it won't ever be repaired.





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NarcsEverywhere
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2023, 11:24:02 AM »

It's okay So Stressed, I think the hatred is eating me up more than the isolation. I like being on my own, so I think I'll get used to that, until I find the solutions that I need, at least I've got animals that help with all of that.

Yeah, it sucks to not have a family, like even if you have a dysfunctional one, it's kinda like not having one. It's a tough thing to let go of, if you have to, it's a tough thing to deal with if you want to.

That's cool that you have friends, and it's too bad that people are destroying your relationships/friendships. It's not right, but I think, you know, if people fall for a lot of the victim stuff that a lot of people with Narcissism pull, to get people against you, then they might not be worth your time? Although, they're pretty good at it, so I dunno how much I blame them, for falling for it.

That's too bad that you think you won't be able to patch things up with your sibling. I dunno how I am supposed to work with my sister either, I feel like she blamed me for his abuse and that's hard to wrap my head around, and look past. Sucks that they sabotage you like that, seems so wrong, I guess they care about their image so much, that they're willing to do anything to maintain it. Personally, I'm just glad I can be myself more, even if it drives people away, that's a much better way to live a life, than to be what other people want all the time.

Maybe someday you'll be able to connect to your sibling? But maybe you can't make it happen, like maybe they'll need to figure stuff out for themselves? Still, it sucks to feel so powerless, and to lose someone you care about, it's tough.
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