Healthier Responses to Flying Monkeys

[zachira]

I had dinner with one of the flying monkeys last night. There is going to be a Celebration of LIfe of one of the relatives and most of the family is going to be there. The flying monkey wanted to know if I would rent my house to the family (which basically means I have to go elsewhere, and not participate in the Celebration of Life which would be a relief for my NPD sister and other relatives). The flying monkey also inquired about some of my other plans which I politely refused to discuss.
I had been preparing myself for several days on how to deal with this flying monkey. I am proud I kept my boundaries both in the moment and not letting how I was treated bother me as much as I would have in the past.
I do think there is a big payoff to having integrity and not going along with abusing others (either by directly being an abuser or being a flying monkey abuser or both, which is the history of my family with many generations of scapegoats and golden children). I find myself enjoying more fine people who would not have wanted to be around me for long in the past, as I was too emotionally dysregulated. I also find myself enjoying my solitude. I have more self compassion for myself these days and the debilitating shame I have felt for most of my life is significantly reduced.
How are you doing with the flying monkeys?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Goodness, the entitlement they have...!

It truly feels, from your writing, that you weren't even surprised and truly reached a state of complete acceptance.

I am grateful and happy to read you feel at peace with who you are, and are finding healthy friends and acquaintances to connect with and enjoy genuine connection. This is where life takes its meaning. You've had it rough, but you found yourself, this is inspiring to me. Thank you for sharing.

Sending you a big hug Zacchira  

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
Yes, the sense of entilement they have is over the top in addition to the polarized thinking. It does not matter how badly the golden children behave, (they are always enabled by the family), or how generous and succesful the scapegoat children are, (they are always maligned).
Yes, I did anticipate the behaviors ahead of time. I am learning to keep my mouth shut and not take things personally that have nothing to do with me. There is a certain level of peace when we do not internalize cruel behaviors projected on us that have nothing to do with who we are and very revealing about the true character of the person abusing us.
Thank you for your helpful response.

[SinisterComplex]

Zachira, you have grown immensely in your time here. I think that is wonderful. More than anything I am happy for you that you are feeling more comfortable with yourself and you have grown the confidence to enforce your boundaries and not relent. Keep doing YOU!

I'd send a hug, but I'll do my style and do the #bropound  LOL.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[GaGrl]

So, I must ask...

Was "No" A complete sentence?

[Methuen]

Am I understanding this right?  You are living in a house which is your principal residence.  This flying monkey met you for dinner somewhere (I'm assuming there was a good reason you agreed to this meeting), and asked you if you would rent said house to the family so they would have somewhere to stay during the Celebration of Life.  This is the same family that has always scapegoated you?  "Rent your house" kind of implies that you would vacate it, but even if that wasn't implied, you would feel the need to vacate it to feel safe around these same family members that have historically been mean and abusive to you.

Do I have that right?

This is kind of a facepalm moment.  And, so... "not normal".

It's remarkable how entitled and unaware family can be.

I can understand why you have good feelings (pride?) after saying no to this.  It's a measurable example of your progress in navigating through the weeds with your family.  It's a sense of accomplishment - kind of like "I did it"!  Sort of like how we must have felt the first time we successfully tied our shoelaces on our own. I too am curious, if "no" was a complete sentence.  Did you manage to avoid sugar coating it?

Regardless, kudos to you Zachira.  Awesome job.    IMHO, their ask was audacious beyond the pale.

[zachira]

Sinister Complex,
Thank you for seeing my growth. According to my family, I am just a very difficult person. The truth is I stand up for what I believe in.

GaGrl.
I gave a nice short explanation while feeling calm and comfortable in saying no. I am learning to be nice while saying no, because if I get upset, it provides the flying monkeys and the other abusers with narcissistic supply.

[zachira]

Methuen,
The house is my summer residence. Clearly my NPD sister is behind this, as she would not be able to hide behind her mask of being the victim and a nice person if I were there. A number of years ago, my NPD sister came walking into the bedroom I was sleeping in with her teenage daughter while we were both sound asleep and started hitting me, saying she was mad at me for something I said. (I still have no idea what that was.) She woke up my sister's daughter as well, who was as horrified as I was at her mother's behaviors. My NPD sister is terrified of having me there, and needs to rent a place soon if she is going to be part of the big family reunion. The flying monkeys and other abusers do not want to take a look at themselves and how they enable the false narrative of our family being a great family that everybody should admire and look up to. I want to go to the Celebration of LIfe at the church, and probably will not go to any of the family gatherings, which I may not be invited to. I am in a good place right now, and the more I observe the family members' over the top abusive childish behaviors, the less I want to see of them. At this point, I really have very little in commonn with most of my extended family, as I have grown considerably while they stay stuck in their shallow polarized vindictive worlds.
Thank you for your indignation at how the flying monkey treated me, your heartfelt recognition of my progress, and complete reply. I am of course, the bad guy in all of this for the family, and I feel comfortable in my own skin setting the healthy boundaries with the family. I did not sugarcoat my reply while at the same time did not get emotionally invested in it, so as not to provide narcissistic supply to the flying monkey.

[Notwendy]

I think you made a good point about integrity and self esteem.

My BPD mother seemed to have considerable influence on how her FOO perceived me. If I tried to speak to them to clear the story, it would mean she didn't tell the truth- they would not know who to believe. One of us had to be lying. Then, I decided to just disengage- they are a support to her and that was a good thing for her. I did grieve the relationship but felt there wasn't much else I could do. I didn't want to go along with the "your mother is so great" persona- but they could if they wanted to.

So I remained cordial on the rare occasions I encountered them, but they began to notice some of her behaviors and ask about them. Someone in my 12 step groups asked- so when are you going to be honest with your answer. Our family rule was to not say anything about her issues. So, if they asked directly, I'd answer as honestly as I could without it being too much. I figured, I didn't have a relationship to lose. They seemed to be firmly in her camp. I can't change what they think about me.

But apparently they were beginning to catch on, and have made some efforts to reconnect and this resulted in action on their part to get BPD mother into assisted living. I had told them about my concerns about her finances and that I didn't have access to any information about them. Apparently they were able to be more effective with her than I was, perhaps because she has perceived them as being "on her side".

I remain cordial, hopeful, but cautiously guarded. They are well meaning, and high functioning people. There are some NPD traits in her FOO, but not to the extreme of my mother's behavior. They don't know the whole of it, and also don't know how the whole of the dynamics between us have been. They may not understand why I am hesitant with her, while they are more direct, but their children don't have the experience of walking on eggshells with them. It's been better but I still am cautious with anyone in my mother's circle and expect I will keep some distance with anyone who is connected to her.

As Zachira said- I think when we are acting more authentic and not being fearful of what they think, we are more effective. It's good that you could say no- you should say no. They will either be OK with that or not but we can't control if anyone wants to like us or not. As long as we are behaving decently, we've done nothing wrong. If people are looking for someone to be a doormat- you are not that person and you don't have to be.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
Your post has left me with some thoughts and some ideas about boundaries to have with family members and people connected to the family who choose to believe lies told about others without getting to know the person and what has actually happened. Your post has made me think about how we have to keep some relationships at a more superficial level and really be careful about what we reveal. You have been very selective about what you tell your mother's relatives and only in response to what their concerns are. Sometimes we have to accept that a relationship is a one way street in terms of the communication.  
I am practicing more and more of the healthy boundaries yet I still can be taken in by hope that things will go better than expected at times. This time round I prepared for many days for meeting with this relative by doing my self care routines and rehearsing what I might say. The interesting part was I forgot the directions to the restaurant where we were meeting, yet remembered them effortlessly which is unusual for me. I was pleasantly surprised how calm and collected I was with the flying monkey. Last night I slept better than I have in a long time. I am not ruminating and feeling angry like I usually do after being abused by family members, instead feeling calm and collected.
I had been hoping to prevent being continually harassed about being in my own summer home when the family is around by responding to a group email about the date of the Celebration of Life that I would be there. I realize I am due for some more harassment from the family until after the Celebration of LIfe. This time, I don't think it will bother me that much though, as I feel comfortable being who I am and I am finally accepting that my family will never change. It is a cult that harshly punishes those who do not conform to the roles they have been chosen to play which is very difficult for me because I am a scapegoat. I am very proud of how hard I have worked to not be like my family members and to be a decent person in my own right something most of them will never be.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi zachira, 

Isn't it amazing that as we begin to settle into ourselves, who we truly are, we are able to navigate these difficult places and interactions in a much better way than we ever have before in our entire lives? I see that you are doing this, making such progress! I am so proud of you.

The preparation and planning ahead is what my T has taught me to do too, and it's necessary so that I don't get caught off guard. Take time to celebrate you and how well you did!

 
Wools

[zachira]

Wools,
So good to hear from you. How are you doing?
We have both been on PSI for many years. It does take time to learn how to prepare for the encounters with the people who mistreat us, to know how not to be so emotionally overwhelmed for so long and with as much intensity.
I am starting to detach from my abusive family members and their flying monkeys. It is like I now have a separate identity from them. My therapist worked on individuation with me.
Thank you for your support.

[zachira]

I really did not want to meet with the flying monkey, yet I felt I had to have some information to resolve some important problems. I let the flying monkey ask the questions and I gave only the information that benefited me. As far as my house goes, I likely don't have to worry about what is going to happen with the Celebration of Life, as I now know my former family does not want me there. And they cannot force me to rent them my summer house which would mean I would have to find expensive housing elsewhere at the height of the summer season. And a big financial loss to me from the rental of the house.
Meeting with the flying monkey resolved another problem, that I needed resolved soon and have been working on for months. Sure enough, it is now being taken care of, as the flying monkey passed on the message. The flying monkey initiated questioning related to this problem and I only provided the flying monkey with the information I needed to resolve the problem much to the distress of the flying monkey.
Learning how to handle flying monkeys is tough, and really I believe one of the first steps in our healing. Otherwise the abuses will keep escalating when we are in a situation in which we cannot go full no contact with our abusers.

[madeline7]

This clearly illustrates when one person poisons the well we all get sick. But maybe there are a few other toxic people in the well, but either way, that family stew is pretty toxic. You did a great job of straining yourself out of that slop (trying to stay in theme here!). I believe that no is a complete sentence, but rarely do I follow that because I have been both blessed and cursed with the gift of gab! So I bet I too would have met with the family member and given a short explanation as to why I said NO. Kuddos to you for actually applying all that you have learned to a most challenging situation with very enmeshed people.

[zachira]

Thank you Madeline7!

[Mommydoc]

Hi Zachira, this is such a great string.  I have been away on vacation and beginning to catch up.  Your journey is amazing and there are so many learnings. 

Yes, I did anticipate the behaviors ahead of time. I am learning to keep my mouth shut and not take things personally that have nothing to do with me. There is a certain level of peace when we do not internalize cruel behaviors projected on us that have nothing to do with who we are and very revealing about the true character of the person abusing us

It is so much easier said than done ( I continue to struggle with it), but what you did is anticipated, prepared and stayed aligned with yourself and values.

I love Methuen’s comment

It's a sense of accomplishment - kind of like "I did it"!  Sort of like how we must have felt the first time we successfully tied our shoelaces on our own.

.  what is great is once you do it once, you have so much more confidence then next time and it becomes easier! 

I am starting to detach from my abusive family members and their flying monkeys. It is like I now have a separate identity from them. My therapist worked on individuation with me

.

This work is paying off for you and it makes me so happy.  You have accomplished so much in your time here and in therapy.  Letting go and detaching from our families narratives, is so empowering.  Letting go of how they will react, what they will do and say, allows you to focus on your own feelings, your own needs, and ultimately your own happiness.   

I and so many others have learned so much from your insights, your vulnerability and your courage.   Thank you for sharing this powerful story and for being an example for us all. 

[zachira]

Mommydoc,
Thank you so much for your kindness and support.
We are all a work in progress here. We get there when we get there, to the point in which we are internalizing so much less of the toxic projections of our disordered family members. You are in a difficult position trying to honor your mother's wishes of wanting to be in contact with both of her daughters, and not wanting to have your mother aware that you and your sister are not getting along. I was in a heartbreaking position when my mother with BPD was dying and my siblings were limiting my contact with her. My mother was very sad she could not see much of me in her last years, all due to one of my siblings threatening to report me to Adult Protective Services for abuses that did not exist. I am glad you are the daughter who is legally in control of your mother's medical care. 

[SinisterComplex]

Sinister Complex,
Thank you for seeing my growth. According to my family, I am just a very difficult person. The truth is I stand up for what I believe in.

GaGrl.
I gave a nice short explanation while feeling calm and comfortable in saying no. I am learning to be nice while saying no, because if I get upset, it provides the flying monkeys and the other abusers with narcissistic supply.

Zachira, you are only viewed as difficult because you are done being a doormat and now you cannot be manipulated and you are not someone who accepts disrespectful behavior. Always do YOU and never question if what you are doing is right. It may be a battle, but it is your life to live and no one else's. As long as you are happy and comfortable that is all that matters. Trying to please everyone else gets you nowhere. Happy to see you living for YOU.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[zachira]

SinisterComplex,
Thank you for your support.
Being authentic, refusing to accept abuse and disrespect, do often cause me some moments of distress, though now they are mostly moments instead of hours and days of ruminating. I am learning to be more subtle in revealing who I am while still standing up for what I believe is right and not be a doormat. It can be extremely challenging, as I am surrounded by so many disordered people, and letting them know how I really feel can be a recipe for abuse from them. The disordered people never give up on trying to figure out how to manipulate others and take control. I am learning to omit information, lie when necessary, and feel comfortable in my own skin to the point that people are more likely to take me seriously. With people I can trust, I can enjoy being me.

[NarcsEverywhere]

That's good that you're feeling less shame, sticking up for yourself and enjoying your time alone and having more self compassion. Flying Monkey's are hard to deal with, I'm trying to learn to deal with my Flying Monkey Dad, who I have to live with. I had some missteps recently and I got my butt kicked mentally, also been trying too hard, and honestly I'm new at realizing all the manipulation tactics and not getting sucked into them, new at navigating boundaries differently, so it's so confusing. I do feel good about having integrity, but god sometimes the emotions cause me to want to be petty, and it's so hard to resist, but I'm proud that I have resisted pretty well for the most part.

[zachira]

NarcsEverywhere,
The flying monkeys often cause more pain and distress than the prime abusers. It does take time and practice to establish the strict boundaries with disordered people you will need to be able to heal and feel safer.
You have an interesting name. I often feel that narcs are everywhere. This is because my large extended family is full of people with strong narcissistic traits and surrounded by so called friends who are narcissistic as well. There is actually a term "narcissistic family" which you might google that describes how higly dysfunctional families operate. As I have begun to heal, I have started to feel gratitude for the so many kind people who have helped me since childhood while less impacted by narcissistic people as I continue to work on having healthier boundaries with everyone.
It is overwhelming at times as you try to find light at the end of the tunnel. You will get there. Thank you for your reply. It saddens me to hear about your situation and you are not alone.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Zachira, ah okay, so flying monkey's kind of do gaslighting and such instead of questioning the situation, like the golden child. Which is what I thought my sister was, until I realized how severe her behavior is, and now I think she is also a Narccisist. My Dad is one too, so I thought flying monkey just meant impulsive and crazy. What would you describe the vet clinic as, that my Dad fooled into thinking I was abusing/neglecting the pets, even though it was always him? They always acted like I was guilty of something terrible, whenever I talked to them... Now I'm realizing why... most likely. I'm just now understanding all these dynamics in my family, so it's confusing.

Yes emotionally healthy people are a godsend, I'm very grateful for my counselor. Hey, thanks for caring. Yeah, I'm working on boundaries, it's complicated to be honest, especially when I am not feeling well so often.