New to BPD- Wife with BPD Traits

[Frustrated husba]

This is my first post and I'll start with a specific question...
My wife and I were in marriage counseling together and it failed horribly. We would frequently leave more at odds than we started.
Later, I asked our counselor if I could see her individually since she had met us and seen us at our worst. I had been seeing her for a couple months, and she mentioned that my wife clearly had traits of borderline personality disorder. Since then we've been exploring the subject and I have been trying to be more empathetic and understanding of the (probable) issue.
Anyway, the specific issue that came up this week is this.  During an argument my wife ripped off my wedding ring and threw it in the garbage in front of me. Now it's garbage day, and she keeps on asking me if I'm going to go get it. I told her that it seems a bit unfair for me to have to own her irrational action and go digging through the trash. She took the ring. She threw it out- if I'm supposed to set boundaries around irrational behavior and her rage, isn't retrieval of the ring validation of her actions?
Should I get the ring or leave it?
Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gravity Man]

My advice, the ring stays in the garbage.  You tell your wife that the ring in the trash is her responsibility, and then you stick to your guns.  You may very well lose your ring, but what your wife has gained is the knowledge that you mean what you say, and in the long run that will be much more valuable.

I can give you this advice after dealing with this for many years and making every mistake in the book.

[Pook075]

My advice is the exact opposite- get the ring.  It's a symbol of your marriage and your wife doesn't get to decide in a fit of rage that you can't have it anymore.

Was she wrong?  Yes.  Was she childish?  Yes.  But you refusing to get the ring is validating her flawed feelings that the ring doesn't mean anything to you.  I'll bet a dollar that she won't get it out of the trash no matter what.  Yet she desperately wants you to get it because it shows you care, and probably in some ways shows that you forgive her as well.

Boundaries are important, sure.  But your ring has value (emotional, sentimental, monetary).  Give her this one and get the ring out of the trash yourself.  Don't stoop to her level here; be the bigger person and get the ring.

[GaGrl]

Can I clarify?

Is it YOUR ring that is in the garbage, or is it HER ring (that she wears) in the garbage?

[PearlsBefore]

Either way, this is a fantastic illustration of the "I hate you, don't you dare leave me, don't you want me?" aesthetic that accompanies BPD romantic relationships.

Whether you retrieve the ring or not is probably based on whether you want her to get a certain hint. If you look at your own post objectively, you've somewhat needlessly tied it into a story about failed marriage counselling, right? Could've told the same story but skipped the first part...subconsciously YOU think it's important context, YOU are tying these two stories together...I don't know whether the answer is yes or no (being unable to hear your tone of voice when writing), but I'm very certain you've already got an answer buried in your subconscious and you just need to come to grips with it.

I'm not being rude, I'm trying to be helpful - sometimes I'm just autistic about it

[Justapotato]

I would, if you have an opportunity, find the ring before it’s too late but don’t tell her. Either wait for her to go find it or wait for the realization that it’s gone and not coming back.. If she then regrets what she has done and sees the consequences of her actions then bring the ring out and tell her you still love her but it’s not your job to be rooting round bins when she threw it out.

I wouldn’t give it back to her while she’s still being awkward as it’s like it’s rewarding bad behaviour. But it is still a test and by letting the ring go completely it might make her feel more insecure in the long run. I think of it as attack mode, if my partner is sad I’m always there for him but the minute he goes into attack mode, not physical I mean just taking out his negative feelings out on me, I try not to give any attention or pander to any demands. As soon as he softens and we ‘are a team’ again rather than enemies, then he gets my total support. So I would hide the ring until he accepts his actions were unreasonable then give it back saying of course I love him and giving him the reassurance he needed when he was lashing out.

In the beginning of our relationship this could result in long period of attack mode as it might have made him spiral more but over time these have gotten shorter and his sensible brain tends to kick in much quicker nowadays.

[Frustrated husba]

Thank you all for your input.
I'm sure this goes without saying, but it is very tough to navigate in this type of relationship.
I have come to a point where although I may have a  better understanding of what (I believe) am struggling with- it's still one sided. And I'm one trying to find a solution because
Everything is my fault.
All efforts for a better relationship need to start with me.
Efforts I have made are never grand enough or not sincere.
My feelings are not valid, so I shouldn't have them.
I am held responsible for her actions and feelings.

And after years of this kind of relationship... you check your feelings and your empathy at the door because, frankly, not caring is the best defense for sanity and survival.

All things I have read here and online and listened about in podcasts.

Not saying I'm great or without faults- all things we need to honestly explore ourselves.

So moving forward I have been owning my faults and I know I've been a poor companion and partner at times- but Holy Cow. Being beat up with unreasonable expectations on a daily basis is exhausting.

Anyway, I'm happy this platform for support exists and I appreciate the suggestions.

And in regards to the ring issue- I will go home and rummage through the most disgusting trash bag imaginable to find that wedding band. Hopefully I will find it. And although it challenges my ego to do it- I'll get it back.

Thank you

[Pook075]

And in regards to the ring issue- I will go home and rummage through the most disgusting trash bag imaginable to find that wedding band. Hopefully I will find it. And although it challenges my ego to do it- I'll get it back.

I wanted to start with something positive- good for you.  Take it outside and rummage through the bag with a hose if you have to.

I'm sure this goes without saying, but it is very tough to navigate in this type of relationship.
I have come to a point where although I may have a  better understanding of what (I believe) am struggling with- it's still one sided. And I'm one trying to find a solution because
Everything is my fault.
All efforts for a better relationship need to start with me.
Efforts I have made are never grand enough or not sincere.
My feelings are not valid, so I shouldn't have them.
I am held responsible for her actions and feelings.

And after years of this kind of relationship... you check your feelings and your empathy at the door because, frankly, not caring is the best defense for sanity and survival.

Most here can completely relate to everything you just said.  It certainly feels that way to all of us at first.  And when you're stuck in that situation for a period of time, it becomes easy to actually believe some of it.  But hopefully you know by now that those are not reality.  

Marriage takes two people working together, and BPD is not a valid excuse to have your feelings minimized.  A psychologist told me many years ago something that really impacted me- Mental illness is a condition.  Being nice is a choice.  Anyone can choose to be nice, no matter what they're diagnosed with.

Keep your head up, my friend, and keep educating yourself.  We're all rooting for you and your marriage!

[thankful person]

Mental illness is a condition.  Being nice is a choice.  Anyone can choose to be nice, no matter what they're diagnosed with.

Whilst this is true, I don’t think we can always use the implications of this with accuracy when dealing with a pwbpd. That’s why our journeys are so challenging, because we are trying to reason with an unreasonable person and it’s impossible. I have noted of late that my wife is delusional with some of her accusations. I believe she isn’t actually intending to be cruel towards me but rather is attacking because she feels so threatened and paranoid. I am not directing any hurt towards her yet somehow she is still receiving it and thinks it’s coming from me. I have not undergone therapy myself, but I do suspect that sometimes therapists do not understand as much about bpd as our dear friends here at bpd family.

Frustrated, I hope you found the ring? In my own case I know exactly where my wedding ring is but I have been forbidden from wearing it for the past few months because “we’re not together”.

[Frustrated husba]

Frustrated, I hope you found the ring? In my own case I know exactly where my wedding ring is but I have been forbidden from wearing it for the past few months because “we’re not together”.

Thank you for asking. Appreciate the follow-up!

I've been part of the "we're not together" conversations as well.  So I understand what you are saying.

I did find the ring and haven't put it back on yet... I did tell her I found it.
Honestly I'm not bating her in to an argument or trying to upset her more- but for some reason that I can't explain, I just don't want to wear it right now.
Possibly because I'm angry at her or because I want to feel like I have some control over this absurd situation or maybe because these last several months have been so rough that I'm officially checking out.
Anyway, weighing my options and still reading and I did contact a lawyer (without her knowledge) so I can just learn more about what may be inevitable.
If she's unhappy and I'm unhappy - and neither of us are able/willing  to do what it takes for the other- then (finances aside) why wouldn't we divorce? Wouldn't everyone be better off?

These are obviously questions I need to answer. I never really have been one to give up in the face of a challenge, but maybe this is one of those times that being stubborn is not going to help anybody.

Anyway- I'm thinking out loud and this isn't a journal.
 
Thanks all.

[Cat Familiar]

If you are wrestling with questions about staying and trying to make the relationship better, or exploring your options for leaving, you might want to start a new thread on the Conflicted board.