I feel like codependency is abusive too, just not to the same degree.

[Our abuse recovery guide]

So, I honestly feel quite scared of giving up my own codependency, I've worked hard in the past, to not be codependent, but it falls apart when life gets hard, or when I feel stuck, and like life isn't progressing. I think back to how my mom coddled and pressured me, and sometimes was embarrassed of me, and I think you know, it undermined me so much that it was abusive, she didn't take the time to understand me, because she took too much on, and had issues of her own, and so she tried to control me, to cope. A lot of it was how much she put up with from my Dad, too, because she didn't want to be in it alone.

All these things have repeated in me, to a lesser degree, and in the end, my own fears, anxieties, issues, and over tolerance of abuse, to not be in it alone, and to not make hard decisions, because I didn't feel like I had the skills to do so, has led me to smother people, until I'd destroy their personality, sometimes a lot, sometimes a bit, and it's so easy with Narcissists to do that. Was it intentional? Not at all, sometimes I knew it was wrong, but I'd feel so overwhelmed, I'd do it anyways. I didn't always do it though, and either did my mom, because we both had some coping skills and wisdom under our belts.

I read recently that you know, a lot of these push pull dynamics happen, because one person is too deep, and expects too much, and the other person wants slack, and tolerance, and more realistic expectations. So that's what I gave yesterday, I let him rest most of the day, let him be bitchy, but didn't take it on, then in the evening, I was wiped, and set expectations, that he contribute, not dump on or harass me, and not take out his issues on me, and not hurt the pets in any major way, he was agitated, he was angry, it was messy, but he showed restraint, because I put severe consequences down and firm expectations. did a lot of hard work myself to make things work, left the pets alone, even though my cat was depressed by being left alone, and my dog was depressed. But I did notice everyone else's personalities come out more.

I feel guilty to be honest, but at the same time, I think my responsibility in this is maybe 10-20%, while the Narcissists in my life bare about 80%. Why? Because mine was inadvertent self-control failure, due to circumstances and abuse, while theirs was due to intentionally malicious behavior, a lack of personal responsibility in their own mental health, and a whole lot insanely abusive manipulations, and a lot of dishonesty. Me and my mom, we tried to be healthy people, we just didn't know how to deal with all the insanity, and we let people get away with murder. All in all, I realize I have a selflessness problem, and the Narcissists in my life had a selfishness problem. Time to put my self first again today, but hopefully with more moderation, and realistic expectations of myself and life.

[NarcsEverywhere]

So, I honestly feel quite scared of giving up my own codependency, I've worked hard in the past, to not be codependent, but it falls apart when life gets hard, or when I feel stuck, and like life isn't progressing. I think back to how my mom coddled and pressured me, and sometimes was embarrassed of me, and I think you know, it undermined me so much that it was abusive, she didn't take the time to understand me, because she took too much on, and had issues of her own, and so she tried to control me, to cope. A lot of it was how much she put up with from my Dad, too, because she didn't want to be in it alone.

All these things have repeated in me, to a lesser degree, and in the end, my own fears, anxieties, issues, and over tolerance of abuse, to not be in it alone, and to not make hard decisions, because I didn't feel like I had the skills to do so, has led me to smother people, until I'd destroy their personality, sometimes a lot, sometimes a bit, and it's so easy with Narcissists to do that. Was it intentional? Not at all, sometimes I knew it was wrong, but I'd feel so overwhelmed, I'd do it anyways. I didn't always do it though, and either did my mom, because we both had some coping skills and wisdom under our belts.

I read recently that you know, a lot of these push pull dynamics happen, because one person is too deep, and expects too much, and the other person wants slack, and tolerance, and more realistic expectations. So that's what I gave yesterday, I let him rest most of the day, let him be bitchy, but didn't take it on, then in the evening, I was wiped, and set expectations, that he contribute, not dump on or harass me, and not take out his issues on me, and not hurt the pets in any major way, he was agitated, he was angry, it was messy, but he showed restraint, because I put severe consequences down and firm expectations. did a lot of hard work myself to make things work, left the pets alone, even though my cat was depressed by being left alone, and my dog was depressed. But I did notice everyone else's personalities come out more.

I feel guilty to be honest, but at the same time, I think my responsibility in this is maybe 10-20%, while the Narcissists in my life bare about 80%. Why? Because mine was inadvertent self-control failure, due to circumstances and abuse, while theirs was due to intentionally malicious behavior, a lack of personal responsibility in their own mental health, and a whole lot insanely abusive manipulations, and a lot of dishonesty. Me and my mom, we tried to be healthy people, we just didn't know how to deal with all the insanity, and we let people get away with murder. All in all, I realize I have a selflessness problem, and the Narcissists in my life had a selfishness problem. Time to put my self first again today, but hopefully with more moderation, and realistic expectations of myself and life.

[Notwendy]

I've worked hard in the past, to not be codependent, but it falls apart when life gets hard, or when I feel stuck, and like life isn't progressing.

my own fears, anxieties, issues, and over tolerance of abuse, to not be in it alone, and to not make hard decisions, because I didn't feel like I had the skills to do so, has led me to smother people, until I'd destroy their personality, sometimes a lot, sometimes a bit.

I read recently that you know, a lot of these push pull dynamics happen, because one person is too deep, and expects too much, and the other person wants slack, and tolerance, and more realistic expectations. So that's what I gave yesterday, I let him rest most of the day, let him be bitchy, but didn't take it on,

then in the evening, I was wiped, and set expectations, that he contribute, not dump on or harass me, and not take out his issues on me, and not hurt the pets in any major way,

he was agitated, he was angry, it was messy, but he showed restraint, because I put severe consequences down and firm expectations. did a lot of hard work myself to make things work, left the pets alone----- I did notice everyone else's personalities come out more.

Time to put my self first again today, but hopefully with more moderation, and realistic expectations of myself and life.

I pulled out some of your post because I think they are insightful to the issues. Yes, you are correct in that co-dependency is also harmful, maybe not in the exact same way as abuse but it's harmful in that it is smothering and controlling. It helps manage one's own feelings- fear of abandonment- but it doesn't help the other person. It can appear helpful but it's not. You are also correct that your mother probably had no idea she was being co-dependent and these behaviors for her were maladaptive coping skills. She was doing the best she can.

I think anyone with co-dependent tendencies may occasionally fall back on them, especially if we are not in a good place emotionally at the moment. It's said "progress, not perfection" and with practice it can get better and one can lessen these tendencies. To expect to not ever be co-dependent is like resolving to eat mainly healthy food and declare one will never eat a cookie again when we know we are going to eat that cookie at some point so that is not realistic.  But if we can get to where we eat healthy food 90% of the time, that is great progress. Eating the cookie on occasion is not failure and neither is falling back on behaviors that are so familiar to us.

You did well to just let your father be in his bad mood. It's not your mood. You noticed that when you pulled back, people had space for their own personality to express itself. That is what happens when we stop trying to control with co-dependency and let people be with their own emotions and not try to fix them.

Putting yourself first with moderation is a more realistic goal and a good one.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Notwendy,

Thanks for your response.

Yeah, that's totally true, that when I suffer severe hardship, I fear more loss, even though I know I can handle loss, and I compound my problems by doing so, because I get scared of having too much loss at once. But if it's hindering my healing, and damaging my relationships, then it's sabotaging my situation even more. It's hard to have faith in my ability to handle loss, especially now, because I lost a lot recently.

I've been spamming the boards, because I feel overwhelmed, and I really need to take the time to relax and go over what I've said, because I think what I'm going through might make more sense to me, if I actually took the time to reread what I've written, lately I've been all over the place.

I was lazy yesterday, and god I felt so anxious, and helpless, and guilty for wanting space from my Dad, he pulled some pity party stuff for leaving me alone, then when I talked to him, he bombarded me with something that irritated me. I didn't put up with it for long though, so even though his manipulations are still happening, it doesn't bother me much, if I don't get hardcore sucked in. But I did feel wrapped up in other peoples suffering too much and feeling bad about myself, but it was minor, and tolerable.

I also am realizing it's like, I just feel a sense of duty, and it makes me so susceptible to guilt trips. These lines are hard to figure out. The pets LIKE me caretaking for them, just maybe not as much as I do it all the time. They honestly need it, I need it, I just really need to be more practical with this whole situation, if I want to caretake for the family, than I can do something like work on cleaning the house or something, I don't have to bother people a lot. But the crux of it is, I really need to do some stuff, just for me, I can't make everything about everyone else, it's really bad for me.

Also, I agree, it was the right thing to do to not control my Dad when he was downright obnoxious, and to not rescue him when he was upset. It was hard to restrain, but the only reason I could, was because I laid down some insanely tough consequences if he is abusive, which allowed me to relax and trust in myself to deal with the upheaval if I had to.