a long week at work

[Woolspinner2000]

I wanted to post on the board today because I know you all understand what it is to struggle with CPTSD. I'm really fighting it this past week at work where we hired someone and I'm the main trainer. Sighs...

Last night after spending only a half day with this person, I was mentally and physically so exhausted. My brain literally felt fried, and the drive home was very difficult with the struggle to focus and stay safe. That's only happened a few times in the years since I've been in T and understood what was really going on when the emotional flashbacks come. I had troubled dreams last night when I managed to sleep, and am still so very tired today.

I've been spending some time in Pete Walker's book about CPTSD over the last week. It helps me to feel less 'bad' for having the feelings and physical responses I'm having. Pete talks about how some emotional triggers are external, others are not so easy to pick up on, such as just the reminder of something being similar to what we went through as a child. This particular new employee is highly anxious, talks all the time, is very defensive and needy, and needs explanations and the same instructions over and over, all the while not referring to her notes. She reminds me of my uBPDm's continual need to talk and defend and explain. My body is responding as if I were back there, remembering in that visceral way, even though my brain doesn't remember.

I find the struggle to be particularly bothersome because I work in a professional environment and need to be professional. I really want to run away but that's not possible. I keep trying to push on through, taking what self care I can in between direct interactions with her, but those will continue to be there for a very long while. She is not catching on. I am not finding myself able to recover if the interactions are repeated within each 24 hour period. It's just tough.

One really good thing is that I am not alone like I was as a child, and those I report to are very supportive and helpful. It's really comforting to me, even in the midst of the struggle.  My supervisor is finding the same issues I am when she works with the new employee. We're able to verbalize our concerns to one another and are keeping an eye on the situation to see if this is going to work or not.

Thanks for listening. I hate the emotional flashbacks and know that they're just always going to be a part of my life. I'm glad they're less frequent than they used to be.

Wools

[zachira]

You are wondering how to deal with painful flashbacks you are having from training an employee who is emotionally overwhelming. The best piece of advice my therapist ever gave me was when in the presence of a disordered person to focus on how I was feeling inside. This helped me to stop observing the behaviors  of the distressing person and stop thinking about what I could do to make it better. Most of all, it has helped me to keep from becoming enmeshed with disordered people and maintain healthy emotional boundaries. Sending you a virtual hug and hope you are feeling better soon.

[Woolspinner2000]

Thanks, zachira. I think that is good advice which can be really helpful.

I remembered taking a pause to drink some water several times  during my interaction with the new employee and had this conscious thought that I needed to take care of myself. I was also hungry and hadn't had time to eat lunch and it was 3:30. I know that's a headache trigger so eventually I just walked away from all the questions and talking and sat by myself in another room to eat. The quiet was heavenly. It used to be that I never would stop for self care, but I did at least a bit yesterday, and what you said matches up with that in a way. I'd guess that by paying attention to how we're feeling, we can then focus on what we need to do to take care of our own needs.

Most of all, it has helped me to keep from becoming enmeshed with disordered people and maintain healthy emotional boundaries. 

I hadn't thought of that, and what a great way to help set up and maintain healthy boundaries. Thank you.

 
Wools

[Couscous]

Oh yeah, keeping one's blood-sugar stable is incredibly important in order to stay emotionally regulated.

What I'm wondering is if she might not actually be a good fit for the position, and might be "untrainable". Is there any protocol/procedure for handling such a situation, or do you think it's just a matter of time before she will eventually catch on provided you spoon-feed her and hand-hold her for long enough?

[Methuen]

Hi Wools.

It can be overwhelming.  And it can feel really awful. 

Although my situation is different, there are a few similarities. My problem person is actually my boss.  It was completely unexpected since I knew her a wee bit before she offered me a position, and I was excited to work with her. It seemed like a godsend because I was at that point with my mom where I was in serious distress and felt lke I was being swallowed whole. Taking the position gave me a natural boundary from my mother.  But from the beginning there were red and yellow flags.  Thankfully I love my job, but there are so many ways she has triggered me.  She has many complex layers to her, and I didn’t see it coming.  I came out of retirement to take the position to escape from my mother.  By the 4th month I knew I had traded the stress of my mother with a boss who was sucking the joy out of me. I’ve never been to a 12 step program, but I knew my best strategy was “one day at a time”.  My T was advising against quitting because of what it would mean with my mother.  That “one day at a time” mentality has lad to me being there 14 months.  My clients love me and the feeling is mutual.  I just don’t love my boss, but I practice a lot of distress tolerance skills and also self care. 

What I can say in my case  is that the adjustment phase to the change of having her (the trigger) in your space is hard.  Over the course of my 14 months, it has been a process for me to manage those feelings and process them.  My motivation was knowing that quitting my job and going back into retirement would put me back into an unsafe space with my mother, which I knew was worse. So manage and process is what I’ve done. 

I’m so glad your supervisor is on side.  That’s really awesome. 

If you’re training this person and she’s not catching on or taking initiative or showing self motivation, it’s not your job to supply her neediness.  Maybe HR just hired an unsuitable person.  It will unfold as it’s meant to, but your job right now is to look after you.  Don’t sacrifice yourself ( as we’ve been trained to do).

You mentioned not having had time for lunch.  I had a career job like that.  I missed a lot of lunches and I can say that it wasn’t helpful.  I see that now, but back then I thought it was ok.  I think it’s perfect that you walked away from all the questions and went and sat in a room by yourself and ate your late lunch. That makes a very important statement. More importantly I’m glad you noticed how important it was for you.

She’s going to have to figure some things out on her own at work .Let her feel uncomfortable - maybe she’s not suitable or maybe she’s going to need more time, but look after yourself first.

I hope you have a better day.

[Woolspinner2000]

Thank you, Couscous,

Of course I had totally missed the obvious that blood sugar levels also affect our ability to handle stress and that making sure I take time to eat would keep me more emotionally regulated. Thank you very much for that reminder. I know I get headaches if I skip meals but didn't think of the other.

What I'm wondering is if she might not actually be a good fit for the position, and might be "untrainable". Is there any protocol/procedure for handling such a situation, or do you think it's just a matter of time before she will eventually catch on provided you spoon-feed her and hand-hold her for long enough?
 

This is actually very well said. I think the jury is still out as to whether or not she is capable of learning. I think within this next week I will know. It'll be 3 weeks plus by the end of next week. I think we're all trying to see if being older (she's 50) and slower to learn is the issue or if she truly cannot learn (maybe a learning disability? ). Even if she can learn at this point, the hand holding and slowness will drain our resources. That's not what anyone needs on a team. Thankfully we do have a 90 trial period for anyone who hires in.

Methuen, I also want to thank you for your response. It was helpful to read your story. It's hard to jump from the frying pan into the fire as the saying goes, especially when we don't anticipate that we'll be doing so. It sounds like in the end going back into the work world was good for you, even with the growing awareness of what you were needing to deal with in your boss. I believe it's such a leap in personal growth to be able to take one day at a time and keep in place the healthy ways you're learning to deal with your boss. That's a huge accomplishment! 

I will hold onto that wisdom you shared and try to put it into place, and literally work on one day at a time. I have an appointment with my T but it's still a few weeks out. Meanwhile, one day at a time.

I got together with some dear friends one night this week, and that was some good self care. Today is the first day of the weekend, and it's our sewing day for my quilt guild. All good things to fill my emotional bucket back up.

Thanks and hugs, 
Wools

[beatricex]

Hi Wools,
This was really timely for me as I'm struggling with something similar (emotional flashbacks - great term).  Thank you for sharing all that, it helped me to hear I'm not alone. 

b

[Woolspinner2000]

Thought I'd come back around with an update on this topic.

beatricex, I'm glad this was helpful to you. Thanks for letting me know. 

So we just passed the 30 day mark last week for this new employee.  I sat down with the supervisor and also spoke with my boss, and after discussion, it's definitely time to set benchmarks for this person to achieve so that we don't waste our resources (myself and one other gal who is helping), and we need to let the new employee know what the expectations are for her to reach by 60 and 90 days. Clearly she isn't retaining what we have told her over this past month because she asks us to repeat the same things over and over even though she says she has written them down. She did sign up for a class to get her certification which is good, but she's flying through that while going at a crawl with the assignments we've given her. I feel very confused as to the dichotomy, but isn't that classic? Maybe that's a red flag I need not ignore. The reminders are of the pwN in my life that say one thing but do another.

We gave her an assignment with specific instructions on what to do and not do, and with computers everything can be tracked and audited. It seems she didn't follow those instructions, so in the end we still don't have a clear picture of what she has learned or is capable of.

I'm less triggered than I was (still feeling fairly hyper-vigilant), yet my senses tell me to keep boundaries. I don't perceive of her as being a safe person for me. I can be so acutely aware of things which may not trigger others yet they do me. Something really good is that my supervisor and boss see the same things as I do, so for me this is different then when I was not safe as a child. I'm glad that I can see this and stretch and grow in my understanding and comfort zone, yet I am also glad that I can see the need to maintain boundaries.

I still don't know where this will end up. I'm just taking it one day at a time.

Wools

[Turkish]

My ex has been dealing with something similar at her non-profit (under Goodwill). Multiple times, actually. The first person sounded like a pwBPD romantic r/s, talking about how toxic her previous workplace was. That person self-selected by quitting, thankfully. I'm glad that your organization has your back.

Over the summer, I got two direct report technicians. Both are night and day as far as competency, but thankfully no personality problems. Except one may be on the spectrum and needs active supervision. He's OK, but only if specifically directed.

Even if you're not a direct manager, it can be frustrating to deal in a leadership role... but that's normal. All in all, it sounds like your bosses value you, yes? If they think that you're great, then you are 

[NarcsEverywhere]

I mean, it sounds like she's not taking her responsibilities seriously, and needs to be interrupted more. I absolutely hate being bulldozed, as my exBPDgf, and a few others in my life have done a lot of that, and it's so dehumanizing. I've done it sometimes myself, like lately, when I've been high needs, which I think is understandable, to a point, but if it's persistent and constant, it's damned near impossible not to have it hurt you, especially when you're under other stressful factors.

[Woolspinner2000]

Even if you're not a direct manager, it can be frustrating to deal in a leadership role... but that's normal. All in all, it sounds like your bosses value you, yes? If they think that you're great, then you are.

Thanks, Turkish. They definitely do like me and consider my value to the company to be good. I am thankful for that, and it helps to ground me when my Lil' Wools has trouble centering herself in this recent issue with the new employee.

Narcs, Thank you also for your thoughts. 

...but thankfully no personality problems.

I think this may be some of what we are dealing with. My T asked me to think about if HPD (Histrionic Personality Disorder) fit, and it does. Even the though of histrionic triggers me into seeing my uBPDm. She was definitely histrionic in addition to many other comorbidities that are on the edges of BPD. No wonder I am very much triggered around this new gal, in addition to all the issues with regards to her job and her struggle to learn.

Wools

[Notwendy]

Hi Wools,
I can relate to these feelings as well. If someone is angry or stern with me, there's a moment of panic. It's not been a formal label, just something I noticed. I posted before about a parking attendant getting irritable with me. She probably was having a bad day and was trying to direct a lot of cars in a parking lot. Apparently I must have misunderstood and parked in a different spot than she asked. Then she yelled. I wanted to move my car but I panicked, could not find my keys ( they were right in front of me). I felt upset for several minutes later.

It also happened at work. A coworker snapped at me and I retreated to my office, wondering what happened. She later apologized letting me know she was having a difficult time due to some personal stresses. We are on good terms now.

These situations have some things in common. One is that, they are females, as BPD mother is- it's something about their voices that is the issue- maybe they sound like BPD mother? The other is that, their anger or upset isn't due to anything I did wrong, but they themselves are having a bad day. I think someone else would shrug it off as their problem.

By the time this co-worker got irritated, I knew that for me, I had to go to my office and sit alone for a while. This is our cue to self care. I understand it is a difficult experience. I think your statement about them being less frequent is a positive one. I feel the same way- it gets better as we are aware that this is a feeling we have in certain situations with certain people, and that we are OK.

[Mommydoc]

Wools, so glad to hear that you and your boss are using a performance management approach and addressing this employee’s behaviors. 

NW’s story of the parking lot reminded me of moments when I too have “ frozen” when yelled at.  I recently attended a lecture for Caregivers that talked about polyvagal theory that talked about this phenomenon.   The link below is a quick summary.  https://themovementparadigm.com/how-to-map-your-own-nervous-sytem-the-polyvagal-theory/ It really resonated with me, as it humanizes it, but also explains the physiological part.  As humans, we all get triggered and have moments where we freeze or numb out.   We have different triggers, but we all experience it. We may be in a positive mindset and then all of a sudden due to a trigger, move to anger or fear, anxiety about what may happen to then feeling numb or completely shut down. It may be amplified for some of us due to CPTSD , but everyone experiences the different stages and it is normal.  The problem comes when we spend too much time in the “ hyper arousal” state.  The lecturer emphasized  recognizing when we are there, and taking actions, that help get us back into the green zone( called glimmers, just a fancy word for self care).  It is different for each of us, but knowing we are there and knowing how we get out, can reduce the risks of being stuck in a hyperarousal state.  She said just knowing we are on the downslope of the curve and will get to the green is a positive. 

For me, exercise, time with family, time on this board and meditation/ deep breathing help when I get triggered! 

Please keep us updated about your progress with this employee and your journey in dealing with her.

[Notwendy]

This is interesting Mommydoc and I want to read up on it.

I know I freeze up. I didn't think of it in these terms exactly but the going to my office - to be alone where I could close the door was a way to get to a safe place and safe feeling once the co-worker snapped at me. The other side of this story is that she felt bad about it, it was due to her being stressed and so came to me to smooth things over.

I think self care is key here and finding an alone space- even if it's a bathroom stall somewhere can help us to feel calmer.

[Woolspinner2000]

It's been a while since I posted an update on my work situation and with a bit of down time this Memeorial Day, it's a good time to sit and do that.

Thanks, Mommydoc, For that wonderful link!  It's very interesting and something that I haven't investigated before. It looks as if it would be particularly helpful for those of us in particular dealing with CPTSD. I can see why it resonated with you, and it did with me as well. One thing that has come out of this situation with the coworker is that I suddenly became more aware that I can be triggered unexpectedly and struggle to find tools to get me out of that state. Understanding the polyvagel theory/system seems to point us all to hope.

Notwendy, I appreciated the validation you offered in your post, letting me know that I'm not the only one who has experienced these things. It's helpful and encouraging. 

So with the coworker, we just passed 90 days. This past month with the pivot in training, instantly we saw a much clearer picture of where she was, and now we're able to track accurately without grey areas. It's not foolproof, but it's much better than before. I was able to run simple statistics from that and give the feedback to my supervisor.  What it showed is that the coworker isn't where we need her to be.  I found it very helpful to see facts, rather than unknowns and gut feelings, that things weren't right. In other words, facts provide a lot more clarity than I could've imagined. For a child having a pwBPD, somehow that is really significant and validating. I can still be slow to trust myself and my gut, but my T recently reminded me that I need to start doing that more often.

With the statistics in front of her, my supervisor was able to fill out the 90 day evaluation, and she also had solid footing to approach HR and ask for a 30 extension on the new hire probation period that every new hire goes through. HR has allowed the extension so that's good. 

There were a few twists to get to this point. A couple higher up people wondered if it would be so bad to just keep this new hire since employees with the skills we need are hard to find. Another said, "Well, maybe she'll improve," and the training continues on. For me, I struggle a bit to keep my feelings out of it and try to focus on the facts, but given what I went through as a child with a uBPDm and a covert N exH, my patience to hold out for someone to change is much more realistic perhaps than some. Generally, I am a very patient person, but here at BPDFamily, we're all aware that as much as we hope someone will change, especially the disordered ones, that is really a false hope. Of course most of those around me at work probably wouldn't understand that because where I come from is [probably] much different than where they come from. I'm okay with myself in seeing that; basically I see reality much more clearly than before because my own understanding has changed and increased so much through the healing process.

I haven't been triggered by her since that initial few times. We work from home now, so I don't have to see her. I can give her basic training and communicate by email most of the time. When I need to talk with her by phone, I try to keep an eye on the time (she can go on and on) and before and after I talk with her, I try to remember to take time to be sure I'm mentally in a solid place (having eaten, mentally safe, physically safe, etc.). I do better with the before than I do the after, but I am trying to implement those things that my T suggested.  I do often find myself very tired afterwards, so this is something I need to keep working on.

Starting next week, I will have weekly Teams meetings with my supervisor and the new coworker so that I can answer any questions she has. My supervisor wants to be able to document the training I give and also to verify that we're doing all we can. I asked the coworker to send me her list of questions ahead of time so that I can look at what her concerns are and be most prepared. 

So that's where things are at the moment. 

Wools

[Mommydoc]

 Thanks for the update, great progress.  The employee hasn’t really made much progress, but you have!   We all have to keep reminding ourselves, that it is our own self management that counts.  I used to get mad at myself for getting triggered, but now I realize it is human to be triggered…. It’s all how I manage myself when I get triggered that counts.  The time you spend mentally preparing sounds like it is increasing your trigger threshold and keeping you from getting triggered.  That is so great.  I agree the after is harder.   Your story is also a reminder that when there is someone who is repeatedly triggering, that we can take actions to limit our interactions, involve others to buffer and put space between us. We aren’t helpless, we can take actions to protect ourselves.    Thanks for sharing!