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Author Topic: The NW loses her composure pattern  (Read 634 times)
Notwendy
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« on: March 20, 2023, 06:09:40 AM »

I have noticed this dynamic where, I just lose my composure with BPD mother. She goes into waif mode for some reason- the reasons might vary but at the moment, she's elderly and needs assistance. The task being to get her house ready to be sold. It's understandably an anxious situation, for anyone really, and emotional to have the home you lived in cleared and sold.

Since she's the owner and is "legally" competent and dependent on people to do things for her, it's a difficult situation as she needs to be the one to sign contracts and agree to decisions. When given a task, she asks for assistance, then says "I can't deal with this, you do it". Her family is helping a lot and I am helping with them, as I don't want to leave them to the whole thing.

So she will say she can't deal with something, ask me to do it, then I do it. Then after it's decided, she then says she didn't understand what happened and asks from the beginning, when did you talk to this person, how do you know this realtor, where did you find them, and then goes into victim mode "nobody told me about this" and "you didn't tell me this" and "I don't know anything about this". That is when I lose it because, she was right there at the house when we met with realtors and other people involved in the process of selling the house and asked me to talk to them. She will say things like "I was promised ( by who, I don't know) I didn't have to worry about a thing and it would all be taken care of for me so you do it". Then if I do it, she acts as if she has no idea about it and that I did something without her knowledge.


Or some other scenario where somehow, I she says she has no idea about something when she asked me to do it and I explained it to her.

I can handle a lot from her. Insults? so what. Some of her other antics? so what. But the "you didn't tell me" when I did and so did other family members did several times and I lose my composure. This is complicated by her age as she is becoming forgetful, and the anxiety that comes with the situation and her BPD but it's not a new behavior. This same thing happened when my father was ill, and even before that, when she enlisted us to do things for her, then questioned us repeatedly, found that we did or didn't do something exactly the way she wanted it. I've gone so far as taking out her trash and putting the bag in my car to drive to a dumpster as she's screaming at me because I didn't put it in the trash can correctly.

This time, it's more important decisions. She's the owner of the house and so she has to be the one to sign contracts and approve anything that is done. This time, it was a task that she asked me to help with, and I did,  when she called me up later acting as if she didn't have any idea about it, I freaked out because I knew that if anything didn't go exactly the way she wanted it, I'd be the one she'd blame. So I told her I would not be involved in any of this. But I also lost it with her because this is the inevitable outcome of our interactions. It's classic Karpman triangle where she enlists me to solve some problem or dilemma, or gives me a task, and I gladly do it because I want to be helpful, and then, she finds something wrong and assumes she's the victim.

My H notices this happens when I have any contact with her that is longer than a casual meeting. This is how she relates to me- to enlist me to do things for her, then she finds something I did wrong about it. That's the sum of every interaction with her and I think I react emotionally because it's how it's always been, where I was expected to be her caretaker as a child and teen and she'd be disappointed in what she asked me to do and go into one of her rages. When I get emotionally upset now, it's a fear reaction, not anger. I "lose it" and start to cry. If anyone is around me (other family members), they think it's strange but they can't understand because, they didn't experience this.

I won't assist her with any of this because, I can't trust her agreeing to anything as she either may not remember for real or she's doing what she's always done. To complicate things, I think she is getting forgetful. Her thinking has been disordered to begin with and with her cognition affected by age, she may be legally competent by that standard but she's not really competent in the general sense, and yet, she insists on being in control of everything, down to the last tiny detail, asks us to explain many times,  then comes back and negates all efforts by saying she "didn't know anything about what we did". Then says she didn't ask me to do what she asked me to do.

I have noticed that a benefit to her for doing this is to avert blame. Maybe this is the main reason behind these dynamics for her. She doesn't actually do anything herself. She takes victim mode, enlists someone to do something for her, then she blames them for something she doesn't like. She is not accountable for her actions in this situation, someone else does them for her. For instance, she had to choose a realtor which involved telling the other ones she has chosen someone else. So she called me up to ask about who she should choose and I began the discussion of it with her. Then she kept saying "if it were you, who would you choose" and I knew not to touch that one because that would then make me the one to blame if she didn't like them. So I told her she needed to decide. I then found out later, she'd already decided and met with one of them to sign the contract. I don't believe she forgot because she then asked me to call the other ones to say she chose someone else. She had this discussion with me to avoid having to call them herself.

And sadly, she's elderly, and needs assistance, and I'd gladly do what I could to help her but attempts seem to lead to this and she's in control of how they go.



« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 06:23:00 AM by Notwendy » Logged
Methuen
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2023, 09:56:18 AM »

Excerpt
So she will say she can't deal with something, ask me to do it, then I do it. Then after it's decided, she then says she didn't understand what happened and asks from the beginning, when did you talk to this person, how do you know this realtor, where did you find them, and then goes into victim mode "nobody told me about this" and "you didn't tell me this" and "I don't know anything about this". That is when I lose it because, she was right there at the house when we met with realtors and other people involved in the process of selling the house and asked me to talk to them.
When she asks you to do something, could you say “let me think about it and see what I can do”  Then arrange for a family member or extended family member to be there with you for the actual discussion with her about her options before she decides.  They could take the lead in the discussion or you could tag team.  Once “she” has made the decision, you could still do the work, but now there is a witness.  In addition, another idea is for this family member to  pull out their phone and say “I’m going to record this so we can all remember what was decided.”  

Somebody should be with you to witness her decision.  It is too vulnerable for you to be in that position alone with her.

Excerpt
So I told her she needed to decide. I then found out later, she'd already decided and met with one of them to sign the contract. I don't believe she forgot because she then asked me to call the other ones to say she chose someone else. She had this discussion with me to avoid having to call them herself. 
So clearly she is still capable of quite a bit, including enlisting you to do things  she can do for herself.  I’m also speaking about myself here, because it took a lot of work on my H’s part for me to see this in myself.  In your case, your mom was able to pick a realtor and meet with them. That’s quite a bit right? Was any other family member present to know what was said? If she can do that, she can call the others to notify them, if that’s what she agreed to.  My husband taught me to not do for my mother what she can do for herself.  Of course your mother doesn’t “want” to do it.  But if you don’t do it, and she won’t do it, I can probably guarantee that she will find someone else to do it, because this is how my mom has adapted. 

I have gone back to work, my H holds boundaries and doesn’t do things she can do for herself.  He tells her that and he tells her it’s important for her to keep doing them so she doesn’t lose her skills.  He actually tells her that. Then, she finds somebody else to do it.  But at least we’re not getting frustrated or running ourselves ragged.

Boundary: don’t do for her what she can do herself, even if it’s something she doesn’t “want” to do. 

It’s hard at first and got push back, but my mother is used to it now.  We were losing our minds, so this is what works for us.  It may or may not not work for your situation.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 10:27:38 AM by Methuen » Logged
zachira
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2023, 11:29:13 AM »

As you are well aware of, your mother uses you to blame you for how she feels inside, and right now things could not be more stressful for her (and for you) as she is forced to sell her house and live in assisted living due to her own bad financial decisions. It seems limiting your contact with your mother and having as many witnesses around as possible when you feel obligated to help her could be part of making it less overwhelming having to deal with her. Is there anybody who would be there for you, stop your mother in her tracks when she starts to abuse you? Are there people she wants to look good in front of and who she would be ashamed to see how badly she treats you? How does your mother act with complete strangers? In my case, my mother put on her charming nice persona mask with people she did not know. I will never forget how I told a classmate in high school how bad my mother was when the classmate was going to be at a girl scout meeting at our house. My mother charmed this classmate to death, and the girl later told me what a wonderful mother I had. It seems right now being alone with your mother is too distressing and something to avoid at all costs. Is this possible?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 11:34:15 AM by zachira » Logged

Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2023, 12:17:39 PM »

The good thing about the visit to assist with this is that her family did run interference and this protected me from her behavior some. They also saw me "lose it" when she got me on the phone. You are correct that this happens in one on one conversations with her, so this is something to consider, not being on the phone with her as much.

The "doing what she can do for herself " has lots of layers here. For one, it's so much of a pattern with her, it's almost automatic. I have been doing this for her for as long as I can recall so it's something so automatic I don't even realize I am doing it. The other aspect of this is that, she's not got functional skills. She can decide on a realtor but didn't do it by herself. Other family members interviewed them and sat down with her to explain it to her, then she chooses. Since I was only there for a short time, this became a divide and conquer job with me doing one of the interviews and getting the details and contract for her to look over. I recall her saying "you all promised me you would take care of this for me and I am leaving it up to you all", so we did it. It was actually another family member who sat down with her to explain everything and the impression was that she understood. Then she calls me and says she doesn't know anything about what I did or why I did it and that's where I panicked.

The combination of BPD, her manipulative behavior, and her advanced age makes it hard to know what to do. She lately seems to be cognitively declining but to take her to court to get POA would delay the sale of the house and she can't afford to delay that. So several of her extended family has gotten on board to get the house sale moving forward and she does respond better to them. I just felt I should try to assist as well since they are doing so much, but it may be that my assistance causes more issues.

She's had other people make phone calls for her for a while. She can't cognitively hold a conversation by phone that requires a task or goal. Her conversations with me are mostly about her telling me about all her disagreements with people or how she feels but I think other topics overwhelm her. The reason I decided to do the realtor call myself is that, we didn't trust her to stay composed or even lucid on the phone. One of the biggest obstacles for her doing things herself is that having any expectation causes her to be anxious and she has very poor executive function.

She has always needed to have people do things for her and with her advanced age, the need is even more. Even when she was younger, when I was in college, if she needed to go to the mall, and I was home and went with her, she'd wander around lost like a child, and when I went to see my father in the hospital, I found her wandering around completely lost. She delegates all kinds of things that seem simple, to meet her emotional needs primarily but as Methuen stated, she's lost skills now and some she didn't have, and now it's also a matter of need. To get her house sold, it's going to take the efforts of multiple people. She may be a legally competent adult but she has the emotional function of a small child.

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Methuen
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2023, 01:11:10 PM »

Excerpt
She may be a legally competent adult but she has the emotional function of a small child.
I completely understand this and what goes with it.  It leads to craziness.

It may be time to step back from trying to be so helpful.  Instead, focus on self-care for NW, until you are feeling stronger, or strong enough that you won't "lose it" with her, or break down crying.  

When you start to feel stronger again, you can step up again as much or as little as you want to.

I'm somewhat relieved to hear that some of your family overheard the conversation on the phone with her.  Good for them to hear that, and very good that they have stepped in and seem to be supporting both you and your mom. You are also thinking clearly when you acknowledge that not being on the phone alone with her, or not as often, would be better for now.  My phone calls with my mom are usually on speaker with my H also participating.  It's been that way for a very long time now - one to two years.

Excerpt
One of the biggest obstacles for her doing things herself is that having any expectation causes her to be anxious and she has very poor executive function.
Yes.  But by doing things for her to reduce her anxiety, it's a slippery slope between helping,  enabling, or even rescuing.  It's tricky, and very difficult to navigate.

Once you are showing physical symptoms including tears, it's probably time to focus on being helpful to you, rather than her.  Others are around to do "her".  I know this is hard to do.  We are "helpful" people and genuinely want to help. But there are other things at play here and "taking a break from helping her" might be good timing for you now.  Thoughts?

Hugs  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

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zachira
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2023, 04:11:39 PM »

Your idea about stepping back and letting your mother's relatives manage the sale of the house sounds like is what would work best for everybody, as your mother chooses to use you to cause confusion and delay. I had to accept that I could no longer work with my NPD sister and get my own lawyer because I knew she would  use every single issue as ways to make sure nothing gets resolved in my favor and to hurt me as deeply as possible. Are the relatives willing to do this? Do you think the relatives would understand that it would expedite the sale of the house for you not to be direcly involved with your mother? What do you think?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2023, 04:19:29 PM »

Fortunately her family understands this and is going to be the face to face contact with her. I can still assist them if they delegate a task to me, but it will be with them, not her.

Even my H has noticed that my emotional response to her - enlisting me to do something for her- then going back and either undoing it by acting as if she didn't ask me to do it, or finding something I did wrong or didn't do that she wanted me to do. It's a panic response. It's not me crying from hurt feelings. It's me being scared and crying "please stop please stop I can't do this". My H says it's disturbing to see it. No matter how much work I have done, and how much of her behaviors I don't take personally, this is something that just happens. I know it's not personal to me. Something about this pattern has me crying like a scared child.

I now think it's a response to some kind of scary event as a child. I have this drive to keep trying to do things to please her and I have thought it's that if I was "good enough" then mommy would love me. But now I wonder if the fear is- I have to be good enough to stop mommy from one of her rages?   Or perhaps afraid because if she was upset and blamed me, then my father would be angry at me too.

She did this same thing when my father was ill. She'd complain about some of my things from college in her basement and say she wants them out, then when I take them out to my car, she follows me screaming at me that I am stealing her things from her house. When this happens, she scares me.

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zachira
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2023, 05:36:19 PM »

The more aware we become of the cumulative abuses, the more our bodies seem to cry out that we can't do this anymore. With a BPD mother, it is so difficult because there are so many nonverbal traumatic memories from early childhood that we cannot access, only feel some very upsetting feelings that can't be traced to one single event.
Glad to hear your relatives are taking care of the face to face meetings with your mother. What strategies do you have for protecting yourself in phone calls with your mother?
I have read that tears are healing whe we completely let go and have a deep cry, cry until we can cry no more with feelings of deep relief following. It can be scary to let go by crying deeply, particularly if we are concerned that the crying will not stop or we will become too overwhelmed with the tears.
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