NPD behaviour within Religious Cults - anyone familiar ?

[HappyChappy]

Is anyone familiar with closed religious groups or cults ? If so are you familiar with the Jehovah's Witnesses ? Apparently similar behaviour to Mormons.

My line manager was using classic narcisstic manipulation, only within a company that has a disability friendly badge and uses government money. Two previous staff members complained about him being "unethical",  manipulative and harassing. But he talked his way out of that, despite one putting in a formal grievance.

When he revealed his lack of empathy, this triggered my CPTSD into multiple panic attacks, during which I went to HR and his line manager - so not the best look. But not before I'd collected evidence of him breaking serious company rules, as he was exploiting my disability. My medical advice is avoid triggers - which he knows (as he had my HR file)  and redundancies are coming, so he'll probably lose his job anyway.  But he's a Jehova's Witness (JW) and part of a sect that had been investigated by the Police, for using similar behaviour to the manipulation I reported to his boss.

My question is would his JW buddies get involved with this given it's just about his unethical conduct in business ? Also should I expect retaliation if he is made redundant, i.e. are JW malicious ? Surely there's some code of honour ?

[HappyChappy]

  I'm obsessing about this, so any information would help. I've probably got nothing to worry about but just don't know much about Jehova's Wittnesses it began in America, so... ? Also I'd never met him before , someone else interviewed me so not sure how I could have avoided this other than leave earlier.

[Notwendy]

I am not very familiar with JW, but have met some and don't know of any association with them and violence or the type of behavior you are concerned about. While their beliefs are a bit different from what people consider to be mainstream, they are not known here in the US to be unethical. They are known for visiting people's homes, wishing to talk to them about their beliefs and the times I have encountered this, they have always been polite and respectful of my wishes to not engage in religious discussion. I have not had any reason to be fearful of them.

A famous member of the JW was Prince.

For any religion, or group, there's a mix of people and so there can be people with disorders in any one of them but encountering one or even a small group of them does not represent the values of the entire group. It may be that your co-workers are disordered and not to be trusted, but from my own limited knowledge, I don't think that's an attribute of JW in general.

[Chief Drizzt]

I’m fairly familiar with them - they are prevalent in my area.  Usually get them knocking on the door once every few months and they are camped out passing out tracts all over my community.  As far as retaliation from them I really don’t think you have anything to worry about.  They may come to your house and try to convert you though.  It’s the people who were once JWs and then leave that get treated really badly by them. 

They are also not sympathetic to mental health issues - which might be a reason he had an issue with you.

[Pook075]

I had a pair of them that visited my home about once a month for almost 20 years.  They're good people, very kind, and hand out little booklets about their religion.  They do have some quirks people don't generally agree with, like using modern medicine, but overall they're harmless people.  I would not call them a cult.

[HappyChappy]

Usually get them knocking on the door once every few months and they are camped out ...

They are also not sympathetic to mental health issues - which might be a reason he had an issue with you.

That's interesting, in my country all door to door canvassing has been banned as they tends to use pressure sales. I.e. selling overpriced things (or religions) targeted at vulnerable people. Pressure sales use a lot of narcistic manipulation and needs a captive markets as it's about wearing people down with polite, charming persistence - i.e. OAP's find it hard to tell a religious man to leave, especially those that use avoidance i.e. like pretending they don't understand "mental heath" "can you explain it ?" when really they're just trying to find out your triggers to do F.O.G. not saying your JW do this - but our's are infamous for it - loads of jokes about etc... Thanks for the feedback, very helpful.

[HappyChappy]

I would not call them a cult.

**edited
Thanks for the feedback. But this depends on context in my country - it's a "recognised religion" to the public, but in law it classifies as a cult - i.e. "a closed group" that resists outside inspection as defined by safeguarding laws (which trump any religion's "laws")

But in summary it sounds like my JW probably is more worried about her/his Elders finding out than I should be ? She's / he's just trying to cover up the fact (s)he doesn't know what he's doing by projecting blame onto his team members (who've left) ... did I mention this particular JW was "unethical" ? But why would he expect to hide in an government organisation - is there any way of finding out if someone is a JW ?

I hate to say this, but I had a bad experience with two Mormons abroad - but they explained when on mission they aimed to break every sin in the book. Again, they must be bad a reading people, because anyone that knows me  knows I don't break the law (I do use curse words though). Being non judgmental doesn't mean you're corrupt ! It's made me a target though, "Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." shame the guy that said that got shot. Still here's hoping they shine a light on more hateful leaders ... they got Al Capon on tax fraud didn't they ?

Any more feedback would be appreciated, feel free to PM me if you're more comfortable doing that.

[Notwendy]

The US is large and religiously diverse. It may be that people who are JW have a different experience here than in a country where they are considered to be a cult and so it may influence their recruiting efforts. I agree one doesn't want to see vulnerable people coerced but here it seems there are more financial scammers than religious coercion. It's not illegal for JW to come to the door. Likewise, I have not had negative experiences with Mormons.

NPD is not specific to any group of people and can be found in all of them. Some of my experiences with people wPD's have been within my own religion, as these are people I interact with more than having a brief conversation with someone I don't know well at my front door. It's when there's a social or working relationship that the PD's become an issue- if we are trying to get something done and need to have a cooperative relationship to do that. I have also met people with PD's of other religions and cultures too but it's a common environment or social group that brings people together enough to have a PD be an issue.

So consider that the main issue here is that you have a work relationship with someone with a PD that is the main problem. The religion is just the cultural context that this person acts out in, but they could be from any background and still be disordered. Also, since JW can't come to your front door, you don't have this experience to compare with. I think it's fair to say that you'd have minimal to no issues with a JW at your front door. It's that you have to work with someone who is difficult that is the larger reason for the problems and working with someone with a PD can be difficult regardless of their religion.

 

[HappyChappy]

Wendy, with all respect "a rose is a rose by any other name" i.e. the label is irrelevant, which is why I labelled the post both ways. I take your point, but I'd rather not debate opinions and I'm using the terms advisedly - i.e. the legal terms used and that used by the victims and Police. I'd rather not victim blame just so a group of rapists can save face and hide in a church (any church).

What is relevant in safeguarding are the facts, behavioural patterns and outcomes.  But thank you for contributing.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi HC! 

The JW do solicit door to door here in the US as has been mentioned in other posts. I think they are well trained in how to refute various thoughts about the Bible and such, especially if you attend another church different than JW. I have taken their pamphlets and learned to not engage them and not to answer the door. It's my sense of obligation that had me answering the door and being polite in the first place.

Obviously the rules in the US are different than in the UK, and I'll take what you say to be knowledge of that. I don't know if your co worker was trying to fulfill the need to solicit or witness or not. Who knows? Regardless, even here in the US we have workplace training to teach us to be sensitive to other religious beliefs, sexual orientation, race, age (generational differences), etc. Any type of what a person considers to be harassment can be potential for an HR reportable event.

All that being said, I would not consider them to be retaliation focused based on the religion. I've never heard of that here in the US.

Hope that helps a bit.

 
Wools

[HappyChappy]

Hi Wools,

Helpful as always. Totally agree with religious tolerance. On reflection I don't think this has anything to do with JW, it's just I couldn't understand why he's use "grooming" techniques on me, just to hide he was doing a bad job. He's clearly selfish, so probably doesn't care about the JW reputation, company reputation or exploiting my disability. As a point of interest, the muslim's in my country have done a lot to out their own, and ridicule it with comedy "Does my Bomb look big in this ?" the JW need to start outing their bad members rather protecting them.

First time I declare my disability , to a disability "friendly" company and it's exploited ! Government funded organisations just protect their own - can't see that changing in my lifetime. I know this will lead to change to stop him doing it again, but that doesn't help me and the process made me ill. So as usual , they've shot the messenger and will probably get an award for improving their safeguarding.

[HappyChappy]

A famous member of the JW was Prince.

He's a positive roll model. He often made an entrance with the largest possible bouncers surrounding him - which kept you guessing where he was until he entered the stage. He always made a good entrance. Apparently he was shorter than Napoleon, but far more peaceful. Not as good at invading and pillaging Europe, but he was one of the most successful American musicians in Europe, so you can't have everything.   I'm trying to be positive about JW given all the negative stuff I've read of late. I understand most paedophiles think they've done nothing wrong - in which case why hide it ? This guy clearly thinks breaking the law, bullying disabled people and using grooming behaviour isn't wrong, so long as he can hide it. Prince never hid his bad stuff ( check out his song "My name is Prince" plus changing into a symbol didn't make that song any better for him  ).