Need advice, feeling manipulated by sister wBPD to break NC

[Depression = 72% of members]

I haven’t posted an update about my situation  in a while, but have tried to stay up to date on the forum. I need advice. 

I went NC with my sister about 10 weeks ago, and it has been great.  I blocked her on my phone and have not sent her any emails or called her. The first week was the hardest, as I felt guilty given my mom is in hospice and my sense of responsibility to keep my sister informed of how my mother is doing since I am in town and she is out of town.  But my mothers facility, my mothers doctor and the hospice team agreed to keep  her informed, and my mom has been stable. The chaplain, hospice nurse, the SW and the facility director have each been FaceTiming my sister once a week, so she has frequent contact with my mom.  Her doctor has also maintained contact and updated her.  It’s been so wonderful for me, except the guilt/ sense of obligation, which my therapist and husband helped me work through.

Despite all she has been through, my mom  has been amazingly stable.  She loves going outside for our walks, to be hugged and kissed and is able to express happiness and joy, and say I love you.  She can’t really talk or carry on a conversation, but she does respond in phrases and hand signals.  She also loves being out of bed and participating in the group activities.  Some days she is pretty tired, doesn’t eat much and those days are reminders that she is likely close to the end of her life.  I expected her to die 4 months ago, so  every day now feels like it is a gift.  I am very ready to let my mom go, as her quality of life is poor, and I sense she is ready also.  She has a strong faith and does not seem to fear death.  It is quite beautiful to witness.  I hope for the same sense of serenity at end of life. 

My sister was here for 3 days in Dec to say good bye, but hasn’t been back.  She has gotten triggered every time I mention going on vacation.  She forbid me from taking vacation in December.  I canceled my vacation in December, not because she forbid me but  because my mom wasn’t stable. For two months I visited her everyday, despite having had surgery and going to back to work to a really intense job.    No regrets, but I  did take a short trip in February.   My sister went crazy about that too and it was at that point I blocked her.   Initially I thought it would be prior to and during the trip, but I maintained it. My husband and I were supposed to go on a 3 week international trip next week, but we canceled it to stay close to home given my mom’s fragile state.  My sister knew we planned to travel but didn’t know any details.  She has been trying to get information from hospice about my plans.

She never called my house, emailed me or tried to call my husband or kids, so I figured she had decided that it was her that was going NC and she thought she was punishing me.  In a way that would have been win win. 

Until today….  I received  this email.  “ Mommydoc, I have tried to text you many times without a response. Now I am trying an email, as I feel the situation is becoming more time sensitive.I am concerned about mom. She is sad, not eating properly and looks to me like she is "giving up".It is very important to me and I hope you, as well, to ensure that she has a positive end of life experience.I think the conflict and wedge between us has to be heartbreaking to her.You PROMISED me that we would work together if I signed that document. I did, based on that promise.
I am requesting/ begging/ pleading that for our mom, lets' communicate. Will you agree to a phone call this weeekend? I suggest Saturday or Sunday at 4 pm EST/ 1 pm Pacific. Remember mom's quote - "I choose forgiveness over anger!" I have hung that picture up next to the bracelet dad gave us, "Sisters care and share". Love, sister”

My mom’s hospice nurse also called me  to apologetically explain that my sister was “ twisting her words”.  The nurse would say one thing and my sister would “ rephrase” it to fit her narrative.  My sister kept saying my mother is suffering,  wants to die, and my mother is distressed because my sister and I don’t get along.  My sister and I don’t talk much about each other to my mom, and when we do, I believe we both stay positive.   The hospice nurse and I both feel certain that my mother is not presently sensing or aware of our conflict. Prior to her cognitive impairments, she had awareness of my sisters extreme jealousy  but she did not really dwell on it. 

I have been through a lot at work, and with my personal health recently, and just don’t have the energy to re-engage with my sister. I know when my mom does deteriorate I will have to connect with her.  Tomorrow is the first day of a 3 week vacation.  We will be within a few hours the entire time, so I am confident if something happens I can get back.  At some level, I feel like it might be OK to respond to my sister, but I know that this has nothing to do with my mom, and it is all about her sense of panic that something might happen while I am away. She is apparently planning to come visit my mom the last week of my vacation, which I think will be good for both my mom and for her.  AND I am really happy I won’t be here. 

What do I owe my sister, what is reasonable, and what do I need to do for myself.  I know that I have done everything to support my mom.  I wish my sister and I were in a different place, and I don’t see what good re-establishing contact with her would do.  My husband, who usually says don’t talk to her, suggested I give her a chance.  Does her message sound manipulative or am I being oversensitive. 

My gut is telling me a phone call will be non productive and a step back ward.  I am considering a BIFF email response. Advice appreciated.


 

[Mommydoc]

I haven’t posted an update about my situation  in a while, but have tried to stay up to date on the forum. I need advice. 

I went NC with my sister about 10 weeks ago, and it has been great.  I blocked her on my phone and have not sent her any emails or called her. The first week was the hardest, as I felt guilty given my mom is in hospice and my sense of responsibility to keep my sister informed of how my mother is doing since I am in town and she is out of town.  But my mothers facility, my mothers doctor and the hospice team agreed to keep  her informed, and my mom has been stable. The chaplain, hospice nurse, the SW and the facility director have each been FaceTiming my sister once a week, so she has frequent contact with my mom.  Her doctor has also maintained contact and updated her.  It’s been so wonderful for me, except the guilt/ sense of obligation, which my therapist and husband helped me work through.

Despite all she has been through, my mom  has been amazingly stable.  She loves going outside for our walks, to be hugged and kissed and is able to express happiness and joy, and say I love you.  She can’t really talk or carry on a conversation, but she does respond in phrases and hand signals.  She also loves being out of bed and participating in the group activities.  Some days she is pretty tired, doesn’t eat much and those days are reminders that she is likely close to the end of her life.  I expected her to die 4 months ago, so  every day now feels like it is a gift.  I am very ready to let my mom go, as her quality of life is poor, and I sense she is ready also.  She has a strong faith and does not seem to fear death.  It is quite beautiful to witness.  I hope for the same sense of serenity at end of life. 

My sister was here for 3 days in Dec to say good bye, but hasn’t been back.  She has gotten triggered every time I mention going on vacation.  She forbid me from taking vacation in December.  I canceled my vacation in December, not because she forbid me but  because my mom wasn’t stable. For two months I visited her everyday, despite having had surgery and going to back to work to a really intense job.    No regrets, but I  did take a short trip in February.   My sister went crazy about that too and it was at that point I blocked her.   Initially I thought it would be prior to and during the trip, but I maintained it. My husband and I were supposed to go on a 3 week international trip next week, but we canceled it to stay close to home given my mom’s fragile state.  My sister knew we planned to travel but didn’t know any details.  She has been trying to get information from hospice about my plans.

She never called my house, emailed me or tried to call my husband or kids, so I figured she had decided that it was her that was going NC and she thought she was punishing me.  In a way that would have been win win. 

Until today….  I received  this email.  “ Mommydoc, I have tried to text you many times without a response. Now I am trying an email, as I feel the situation is becoming more time sensitive.I am concerned about mom. She is sad, not eating properly and looks to me like she is "giving up".It is very important to me and I hope you, as well, to ensure that she has a positive end of life experience.I think the conflict and wedge between us has to be heartbreaking to her.You PROMISED me that we would work together if I signed that document. I did, based on that promise.
I am requesting/ begging/ pleading that for our mom, lets' communicate. Will you agree to a phone call this weeekend? I suggest Saturday or Sunday at 4 pm EST/ 1 pm Pacific. Remember mom's quote - "I choose forgiveness over anger!" I have hung that picture up next to the bracelet dad gave us, "Sisters care and share". Love, sister”

My mom’s hospice nurse also called me  to apologetically explain that my sister was “ twisting her words”.  The nurse would say one thing and my sister would “ rephrase” it to fit her narrative.  My sister kept saying my mother is suffering,  wants to die, and my mother is distressed because my sister and I don’t get along.  My sister and I don’t talk much about each other to my mom, and when we do, I believe we both stay positive.   The hospice nurse and I both feel certain that my mother is not presently sensing or aware of our conflict. Prior to her cognitive impairments, she had awareness of my sisters extreme jealousy  but she did not really dwell on it. 

I have been through a lot at work, and with my personal health recently, and just don’t have the energy to re-engage with my sister. I know when my mom does deteriorate I will have to connect with her.  Tomorrow is the first day of a 3 week vacation.  We will be within a few hours the entire time, so I am confident if something happens I can get back.  At some level, I feel like it might be OK to respond to my sister, but I know that this has nothing to do with my mom, and it is all about her sense of panic that something might happen while I am away. She is apparently planning to come visit my mom the last week of my vacation, which I think will be good for both my mom and for her.  AND I am really happy I won’t be here. 

What do I owe my sister, what is reasonable, and what do I need to do for myself.  I know that I have done everything to support my mom.  I wish my sister and I were in a different place, and I don’t see what good re-establishing contact with her would do.  My husband, who usually says don’t talk to her, suggested I give her a chance.  Does her message sound manipulative or am I being oversensitive. 

My gut is telling me a phone call will be non productive and a step back ward.  I am considering a BIFF email response. Advice appreciated.


 

[Methuen]

If you’ve stated previously that you won’t be responding to emails and texts, then holding that boundary is important.  If you break your own boundary, what will she learn? 

How do you anticipate that will work out in the short and long term?

From where I am, the language she uses is intense FOG.  She knows how to push your buttons.  It may have worked for her in the past maybe?

If your gut is telling you to hold your boundary, then you should listen to your gut.

It sounds like you have everything set up for various staff to handle the communications with your sister about your mom. 

Well done. Look after yourself and enjoy your holiday. 

[Notwendy]

Looking at the content of your sister's email, it's based on her needs. She words her own needs into concern about your mother. Maybe because it's more acceptable to do this or that she doesn't really recognize them as her own needs. You "promised me". I hear this a lot from BPD mother when she's disappointed with something- she projects this as being someone else's fault.

Through the move to assisted living she kept saying her home care nurse told her that she'd handle everything and the nurse did that- she handled all the medically related aspects of the move to assisted living. But this left the matter of the house- and even though all was arranged by family members and the realtor, BPD mother still had to make decisions and be a part of it because she's the legal owner of the house.

And each time she kept saying "The nurse promised me she'd handle it. Why isn't she handling it. I was promised I would not have to handle a thing".

Well that was true with her medical needs. The nurse isn't a realtor and the nurse is not the legal owner of the house. She doesn't handle that. My mother didn't do much except for meet the realtor and sign papers. Everything else was handled by family members, yet this was her focus. "I was promised I didn't have to do a thing".

And now that she's been moved to assisted living ( where she gets the help she needs), with the assistance of a nurse, realtor, and several family members, she says people "screwed her over" as they told her she "didn't have to handle a thing about the move".

I think, in a similar sense, no matter what work you have put in to this situation, your sister focuses on one thing that didn't go exactly as she expected. That becomes the focus of her "reason" for her feelings but you know that isn't the reason, just the focus. It's frustrating - for you ( and for me too) to see that several people have assisted your sister in keeping her informed of how your mother is doing and that your sister has been able to face time your mother.

The difficult part for you is that, you're a "fixer" and likely have taken on the role of emotional caretaker for your sister in your family dynamics. It's not your job to do this but it's been the dynamics in your family. This is a difficult time for all of you and so your sis is also feeling the difficulty of the situation. I think reading between the lines of "wanting your mother to have a positive experience" could be more about your sister's needs.

It seems that your mother is receiving good care and knows she is loved and supported, and that you have done the best you can for her. Yet, this is still a difficult situation for all of you.

I think you can trust your sense that a phone call will not be productive. It could be a "feeling dump" on the part of your sister, who will then feel better afterwards and you won't. This may be a way she copes with her own feelings but it's not your responsibility to do that. Her feelings are not your responsibility. You can take care of you.

[zachira]

You are far from alone in having a sister who is trying to enlist others to find out what you are doing and to return the relationship to what is was before. This is to meet her needs with no consideration for yours. The challenge is to not take on your sister's guilt, her feelings about how badly she feels deep down inside, and own that you have done everything you possibly could to have a relationship with your sister.

[Mommydoc]

Thanks all!   This is very validating.  I have to admit, I was shocked when my husband suggested I call her and it didn’t feel right.  I agree Methuen that her language is “intense FOG” and you are right that her guilt language of quoting our parents or saying this what they would have wanted, used to work on me in the past.  I now see it as clear manipulation and I go back and re-read my journal and conversations I had with my parents to validate my need to maintain appropriate boundaries. 

Methuen, I did not explicitly state no contact with her.  I definitely have told her the calls don’t work for me multiple times, and had previously said my preferred communication was email.  She would then say her preferred communication was text, and everything would be text and very invasive, particularly when she sent novellas on text, and many rapid fire texts  at a time.  In February, I got fed up and just blocked her, but expected she would call or email me.  She didn’t until yesterday…. She didn’t seem to understand I had blocked her, as she said something like “ did you realize that text was from me”.   

I think, in a similar sense, no matter what work you have put in to this situation, your sister focuses on one thing that didn't go exactly as she expected. That becomes the focus of her "reason" for her feelings but you know that isn't the reason, just the focus. It's frustrating - for you ( and for me too) to see that several people have assisted your sister in keeping her informed of how your mother is doing and that your sister has been able to face time your mother. The difficult part for you is that, you're a "fixer" and likely have taken on the role of emotional caretaker for your sister in your family dynamics. It's not your job to do this but it's been the dynamics in your family. This is a difficult time for all of you and so your sis is also feeling the difficulty of the situation. I think reading between the lines of "wanting your mother to have a positive experience" could be more about your sister's needs.

You nailed it NotWendy.   I appreciate your story about your mom’s unrealistic expectations of the “ promise” .   My sister even capitalized those letters.  I have always told my sister I would work with her as Co-Trustee, but I also told her that I would not engage with her, if she refused to sign the Trust Update paper work.   It is all about her for sure, and I know that any phone call will be a replay of prior calls and as you said “ a feeling  dump” .  Thank you Zachira, Methuen and Not Wendy.   You all said a version of “ take care of yourself” and don’t take on your sisters needs.  It’s what I needed.  I am empathetic of her situation and the struggle she is experiencing. It would be ideal if we could support each other in a healthy way at this time.  I recognize however, that my sister doesn’t have the ability to support my needs, and any attempts I make to support her needs, will put my emotional well being at risk.  Staying focused on what I need while acknowledging her on email seems like the path. I just completed the Trust accounting and my attorney is ready to send it to her.  I decided to wait until after her visit and my vacation, to assure she doesn’t demand an in person meeting with our attorneys.  It will re-ignite her of course, so I have a little anticipatory stress about that already. 

Here is my planned response ( via email) : Hi sister,
Thank you for reaching out. I understand your concern regarding mom as she  has been through a lot over the last few months.    I share your  hope  for a positive end of life experience for her. It is great that you are able to face time with her regularly as contact with each of us is the thing that brings her the greatest joy.  I know she is very excited about your upcoming visit. 
Husband and I  are beginning vacation today.  We modified our original plans to always be within a few hours return to home over the next 3 weeks, returning May 8.    Hospice agreed to face time me so I can stay connected and will let me know if I need to return.   It is wonderful that you will be able to visit in person while I am away and I am hopeful that it will be a very meaningful time for the both of you. 
As Hospice nurse  shared with you,  Mom has good days and not so good days.  She has days where she is less interested in eating and other days where she eats well.  Her preference for sweets is really coming out and mom’s doctor has encouraged all to assure she gets what she wants as the priority.  She senses that she is getting closer to the end of her life, and seems serene and accepting.  Her faith brings her a great deal of strength and peace.   She does not seem to be in pain or sad to me.   
Right now,  communication via email is best for me.  Let’s focus on positive communication and interactions on email as a first step. 
Love,
Mommydoc


It is borderline too long for BIFF, but I wanted to validate her feelings where I was able.  Please let me know if you see any language that could be triggering, as I want to avoid that. My  hope is she will accept the email boundary as a compromise.  How she responds will be telling….

[GaGrl]

I see the email as being as neutral as possible within an emotionally laden time.

Good that you are trusting your intuition and not opening yourself to more direct communication! Keep listening to that intuition and instinct.

There's really no way to know the length of time that your mother will be in the stage she is now. My mom was in the good days/bad days phase of hospice for months. This uncertainty may be what is agitating your sister. But you don't have to take on her agitation.

[Notwendy]

I will try to see this from an emotional perspective. While you may be thinking logically, for her, it's emotions. Logical answers don't address that. An example was the phone call from my mother in the middle of lunch. The logical reason for my not saying what she wanted to hear was that I needed to move to a quieter place to talk. This didn't meet her emotional need. We are not mind readers, but logical explanations don't always come across as we think they would. I would leave out saying your mother has good and bad days- that negates her point of view and feels invalidating to her, not reassuring. The parts about her visiting and how important she is to your mother are validating to her and are ego boosts. I think the main point you want to make is that- you are going on vacation, you will be in contact with your mother. Hospice knows how to reach you and that you want to communicate by email. And of course how wonderful your sister's visit to mother is. Thank you for reaching out seems dismissive and also, you really don't want to encourage that. But you can emphasize that it's important to your mother that she communicates with her. Also, the less words, the better but not so few that it sound impersonal.


I understand your concern for Mom and I share your hope that her time here is positive. It is great that you are able to face time with her regularly as contact with you brings her great joy. I know she is very excited about your upcoming visit. ( good that you validate this about your sis)

Husband and I  are beginning vacation today and will return May 8.  Hospice agreed to facilitate face time for me and Mom during this time. They also will keep me updated on her condition and will let me know if we need to return. At this time, I prefer to have communication between us be by email. I think it is wonderful that you are going to visit mom while I am away and know that it will be a very meaningful time for both of you.


Love,
Mommydoc

[Mommydoc]

I love your revisions NW.  I wish I had waited to send!  My husband was worried she would start calling me if I didn’t respond to her email, so I sent it as I wrote it here. I like how you took out my visits and focused it on her visits. Your point about how things we think of as logical are invalidating because we can’t read their emotions is SO true.    I used to spend a lot of time writing and re-writing responses to her to scrub them of triggers, then I realized I was spending too much time, and she was likely to be triggered anyway, if I don’t match her emotions or give in to her demands.  She wants to be “ sisters” and talking again, and my email only boundary is going to trigger her no matter what.  Sometimes I think  it is more about being able to post on Facebook a picture of perfect sisters, than it is actually about me.  She told the hospice nurse that her “ friends” told her this is a time when families should come together.  I don’t disagree, but feel certain the friends don’t have an accurate view of our circumstances.

In a way, I am glad she reached out.  I knew she would, and it honestly wasn’t as bad as I would expect.   We are going to have to connect at some limited level in the future, so this gave me the chance to reset my boundary, and let her know about my vacation plans.  Hopefully,  my mom remains stable while I am away and she has a good visit.

Thanks again!

[Notwendy]

One idea I got from my mother's family is how much they complimented my mother- way to the extreme than I would consider, not that it isn't good to compliment people but it sounded over the top to me and also seemed patronizing. It's like talking to a little kid and praising them for picking up their toys while nobody mentions this kind of thing to an adult.

I think somehow they understood that emotionally this means something to her. Compared to what you do in a day, being complimented for visiting your mother would seem just ordinary. It's just something you do and you don't expect to be praised for it.  Your sis will see herself in comparison to you no matter how much effort you make to assure her that the two of you are equal as far as who your mother loves. Sis may feel she has to pull you down to make herself feel better.

So, without being disingenuous ( I think my mother's family does this more than I am comfortable doing)- wherever you can honestly compliment your sis might have an impact on her. It's not that you are being manipulative, or caretaking, it's noticing things that you'd ordinarily take for granted. I don't expect to be complimented for daily tasks.

I noticed that even a well meaning suggestion can feel invalidating to my mother and she seems to need a lot of validation. We also don't validate the invalid but if we can validate it, then we can do that. I used to think what my mother's family was silly- and sometimes it seems that way to me. But somehow she likes it and so, I try to emphasize her part in things. Like you can make a slightly bigger deal about how special your sister's visit is to Mom.

[Notwendy]

duplicated post

[Methuen]

I totally concur with NW about doling out the compliments where appropriate.  My mom absolutely needs this validation. If I see her after her hairdresser comes into the house to wash/set her hair:  "Your hair looks so nice mom!"  If she wears a different top for a change: "that's a nice blouse mom".  If her gardener has spring cleaned a flower bed: "your garden looks nice mom!".  If I fail to notice something, she makes a big point out of telling me, and I had better be paying attention, because she "needs" the compliment/praise/attention.  Like NW said, it's like telling the child they did a good job picking up their toys (I would add: ...combing their hair or brushing their teeth).  They still need the validation that the rest of us moved past needing when we moved into pre-teen (or earlier)/teen/adult life.

In my experience, I have learned it is best to edit out explanations, and really stick to SET and BIFF, with a reasonable sprinkling of compliments for her when appropriate.  I truly have one way of communicating with the world (i.e. people), and another way of communicating with my mom.  It's not easy switching between the two, and I don't always get it right.  Most of the world doesn't need the levels of validation that a pwBPD needs.

I think it's great you blocked your sister (rhetorical question: how hard was it for you to come to that?), and it was interesting when her response was "did you know that text was from me?"  I only respond to about 40% of my mom's texts (or sometimes I respond the next day).  Mom doesn't seem to notice.  I just don't see the point in responding to a text that tells me what she ate for supper, or that she had her toenails done. My husband and I often crack a private joke that we should respond and tell her one of us just farted.  We've learned to use  humour a lot as a coping mechanism.   I don't want to encourage more of these kinds of texts from her by answering them, and she doesn't seem to notice when I don't reply or reply immediately, so the status quo strategy is working.  I think it speaks to her level of "need".  It's as if she wants to be recognized for eating supper, which speaks to NW point about giving out compliments.  Both our mother's are elderly and need high levels of care, so this need of theirs is probably amplified from a younger pwBPD like your sister. But even when my mom was younger, she was very needy.  In your sister's case, I think it's wise on your part to observe and note that she survived being blocked, and you were a lot better off for it.

As for the word "promise" I had a kind of low level triggering event to that story. I'm not sure exactly where it's coming from (distant past) but I feel those stories are buried deep inside of me and I'm not interesting in digging to reveal them right now.  But what it reminds me of is a home or primary/elementary school playground where occasionally you can hear little ones saying "but you promised!"  The difference is that here it's more premeditated and weaponized to yank at our emotions so that we will do exactly as they want to have their needs met. I think if we can recognize what is happening, it can help us manage our response with a more logical mind, rather than getting sucked in to the guilt, obligation, and fear response.

I think it's great for you to recognize and accept that your sister doesn't have the ability to support your needs.  I think acceptance is a painful process for all of us.  It means we have to give up on the dream of having a mutual, respectful, equal and unconditionally loving relationship with our pwBPD.  That is just really hard to do, and none of us wants to do that.  I think we all eventually learn to shift the paradigm, and just have a "different" relationship than the one we want, and thought we could have.

I know you have already sent the email, so I'm not sure if the following is helpful or not (for future emails), but if I was sending this email, I would keep the bones (good bones) and just simplify it down:

Thank you for the email (reinforces that you want to communicate by email). I understand your concern regarding mom as she  has been through a lot over the last few months. It is great that you are able to face time with her regularly. She loves this, and  I know she is very excited about your upcoming visit.

Husband and I  are beginning vacation today.  We will always be within a few hours of home (returning May 8). I will be FaceTiming with hospice while I am away.   It is wonderful that you will be able to visit in person.
.
As Hospice nurse  shared with you,  Mom has good days and not so good days.  She has days where she is less interested in eating and other days where she eats well.  Her preference for sweets is really coming out and mom’s doctor has encouraged all to assure she gets what she wants as the priority.  Her faith brings her a great deal of strength and peace.   She does not seem to be in pain or sad.  
 
Communication via email is the best way to reach me.  Have a safe trip here, and a nice visit with mom.

Love,
Mommydoc

[Mommydoc]

In my work, I spend a lot of time validating.  Everyone loves to be validated, not just borderlines!  I have struggled with it with my sister, probably because in all other aspects of my life when I notice and offer validation, it is done with sincerity and feels authentic.  I appreciate you NW and Methuen, emphasized the importance of it with borderlines.  ( my mom also does it with my sister and used to emphasize how much she needed it). I will continue to work on that, as I want her to “ feel” better about herself and us, even though I know I can no longer be “responsible” for her feelings.  As you said, it’s the role I played for a long time and it is hard for either of us to let go of.  I think part of her deepest anger and resentment towards me is rooted in wanting to be my “ equal” and always feeling less than.  The “equal” thing is kind of like the “promise” word.  Things are rarely equal.  I love the quote from desiderata “ If you compare yourselves to others, you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater or lesser persons than yourself.” 

In your sister's case, I think it's wise on your part to observe and note that she survived being blocked, and you were a lot better off for it.

I don’t feel any of it ever has anything to do with my mom and it always all about her. She cares about my mom and I used to make the mistake and think our love for our mom could be the common ground.  Not so, she can’t stand that I am here, and my mom trusts me to make decisions for her.  The Hospice Director and I text back and forth when needed, but she let me know that she talks/face times weekly, as does her chaplain and her social worker with my sister.  I thanked them and asked if my sister was making progress in her grieving, and she said “it is all circular, no progress, we do it for your sister, not your mom; I don’t understand it,  you do everything and she does nothing, but she requires all the support”. I agree that the “promise” thing is another way to FOG me, like you said almost a weaponized threat.  I had to laugh though. She is a co trustee of a legal trust, for which she has also done nothing.  She threw tantrums and fits, and refused to sign a legal trust update documents for 6 months because she didn’t pick the lawyer who wrote the document.  That was her job!  It was the one time I held my boundary and she respected it. She completely ignored my email boundary in her response, but it wasn’t fireworks, so I figured I can continue to set the boundary of email only.  My therapist also likes me to wait 24 hours to respond to her texts/emails, which I do when they are nasty… this one is pretty neutral, but almost funny, because she had not told me ( but has told everyone else) that she was coming the first week of May, which is the last week of my vacation. She clearly thinks I should be telling her about my vacations, but does not think she needs to tell me about her trips.  She sometimes shows up, and then demands I meet up with her with less than a days notice.  She has also shown up unannounced when she knew I was out of town.

Thank you for your response. I didn't know about your vacation until I recieved your reply. It is confusing to me that you thought I was  visiting mom while you are away. I don't like her being alone, in this vulnerable state, without any family nearby. While I have alot planned in the next three weeks, I could alter my schedule and come, if needed. In an effort to work together in easing mom's "end of life", I would like to set up a call, tomorrow to discuss "the plan" for mom, while you are away for three weeks? How about 4 pm, EST? I am not sure of your time zone.
Love,
sis

She is already coming! But now she wants to say,  she dropped all her plans to save the day, because I am abandoning mom in her fragile state.

Facility director and caregiver have told me that Mom is excited about your upcoming visit the first week of May.  I know her regular face time visits with you bring her great joy and she is looking forward to your in person visit.  Perhaps they misunderstood your plans?
I understand your concern for Mom’s end of life and assuring a plan. Husband and son will both be in town over the next week, while I am doing a close by girls trip returning next Sunday. I can be back in a couple hours if needed.  I plan to see mom when I get back next weekend, before husband and I take our in state driving trip. Hospice agreed to keep me updated on her condition and will let me know if we need to return, which we can do within a few hours, regardless of time of day since we are driving. They would also call you if her condition were to change.  It is wonderful that you are willing to adjust your plans to visit mom while I am away, but given our close proximity to home it isn’t necessary, particularly if you were considering coming the first week of May.   At this time, I prefer to have communication between us be by email.
Love, mommydoc

Another part of the reason, I like email with my sister, is that it creates a paper trail.  She frequently says things like I asked for X 6 months ago, and you never responded or you didn’t tell me Y.   When my mother does pass, it is likely she will make similar false accusations.  Having the facility, hospice and my mothers doctor communicating with her will assure witnesses and email trails of my communication with her, will be objective documentation when the accusations start.  So some of the details, which may not always be necessary are part of documentation that there “is a plan” and she was informed of it. 

I am glad this all happened before I have actually left on my vacation.  I am going to ignore my personal and work email as much as possible over my vacation and keep her blocked on my phone.   Last summer, I took a trip and she sent me nasty texts non stop, which even when I didn’t respond to them, still negatively impacted me. For this trip we were supposed to go to South America, a trip that has been rescheduled multiple times through the pandemic.  Because I want to be close in case something happens with my mom, we canceled SA again, and are staying within hours of home but have an amazing itinerary planned.

This vacation is a big milestone for me.  I have been in an executive healthcare role for the last 10.5 years.  It’s been a rough ride the last few years.  10 months ago I announced my retirement, there was a 6 month process to replace me, and I have spent the last 4 months transitioning my successor.  I cleaned out my office and vacated it on Friday, so she can move in and assume an acting role during my vacation. My choice, no one asked or expected me to do that.  When I get back, I will have 6 weeks until my retirement!  When I left, my email was down to zero, and everything that comes in, she will need to handle.  I can give advice when I get back, but it won’t be “ on me” anymore.  I am very excited to have more time for myself and with my mom and I am not going to let my sister get in the way of all of the positives I am experiencing.

[Methuen]

I cleaned out my office and vacated it on Friday, so she can move in and assume an acting role during my vacation. My choice, no one asked or expected me to do that.  When I get back, I will have 6 weeks until my retirement!  When I left, my email was down to zero, and everything that comes in, she will need to handle.  I can give advice when I get back, but it won’t be “ on me” anymore.  I am very excited to have more time for myself and with my mom and I am not going to let my sister get in the way of all of the positives I am experiencing.

This is so exciting!   Congratulations!    I am so glad to hear you are taking this time for yourself.  Again congrats!

Looking back at the reply she sent you, I wonder if it could have been more strategic to not let on that you knew she was coming, because now she knows the facility staff share information about her with you.  Now she has escalated, and she claims she is changing her trip.  It may be bluster.  Or she may come for the 3 weeks.  

I have learned with my mom that communicating with a pwBPD is truly a time when "less is more".  The less information we give them, the less ammunition we give them to turn around and shoot us with.

Your sister's response reminds me of when H was having to navigate his disordered sister.  It didn't matter how well H and I crafted responses to her, which we sometimes took hours to do (and days on one occasion), she always found a way to escalate.  They just "need" to create chaos and be in control, and my theory is that this need comes from the emotional chaos swirling inside of them, and how out of control they feel.  Meanwhile FIL was living under her roof, and she was busy spending his money on renovating her home (for him of course) and supporting her business by selling him product he didn't need and couldn't use, every month. Then she found a way to manipulate her father (who had vascular dementia) to call his son (my H, and from under her roof) and tell him he was disinheriting him.  There is no way to rationalize or use logic in a productive way, with these people.  It all comes down to skills I learned on this website to navigate their intense emotional selves.  

The good news I see in her response is that she says she "could alter her schedule and come if needed".  She doesn't explicitly say she's already changed her plans.

I have a couple of tweaks for you to consider if you're interested.  I just follow the principle of less is more. Also neutrality, and don't give a target.  In my experience, spending too much time on it just doesn't make a difference, but giving less info is the most helpful strategy we can use.  That's just my experience (with mom and SIL).

"Facility director and caregiver have told me that Mom is excited about your upcoming visit the first week of May.  I know her regular face time visits with you bring her great joy and she is looking forward to your in person visit.  Perhaps they misunderstood your plans?I think this could invalidate her or produce a possible emotional response.
I understand your concern for Mom’s end of life and assuring a plan. Husband and son will both be in town over the next week, while I am doing a close by girls trip returning next Sunday I would definitely leave this out as this gives her a target. I can be back in a couple hours if needed.  I plan to see mom when I get back next weekend, before husband and I take our in state driving road trip. Hospice agreed to keep me updated on her condition and will let me know if we need to return, which we can do within a few hours, regardless of time of day since we are driving. They would also call you if her condition were to change.  It is thoughtful that you are willing to adjust your plans to visit mom while I am away, If you wish to adjust your plans that is up to you, but given our close proximity to home it isn’t a necessity necessary, since you were alreadyconsidering coming the first week of May.   At this time, I prefer to have communication between us be by email. I have commitments for tomorrow, so email continues to be the best way for me to communicate.  Safe travels, and enjoy your visit with mom.
Love, mommydoc"

Others may have different or better ideas.  And some of this may not fit for your situation.

Congrats on your nearing retirement, and enjoy your trips!  Amazing!

[Mommydoc]

Less is definitely more!  Thanks for the tweaks.  I am going to be traveling and very busy, so at this point, to me the topic needs to be put to rest.   The thing that fascinates me is that sometimes I expect her to be triggered and she isn’t and other times she is triggered by the most puzzling things.  Like you, I wasted way too much time trying to craft the perfect response, which of course doesn’t exist.  Given 2 months of NC, I realize I am a little rusty. I really don’t want to invalidate her in any way.  I have gotten a lot better, but I used to really over do the “explain” part of don’t JADE.  It goes back to treating her like a normal person.  You are absolutely right, less is more and keeps me out of target zone.  Thank you Methuen!

Me traveling, taking trips is a huge trigger for her.   So I stopped telling her anything about it… but now with my mom in hospice, she feels like she needs to know every detail, so she is 50/50 decision maker in the “plan”.  I have not told her and don’t intend to tell her I am retiring.  It’s crazy, but my biggest fear is people tagging me on social media related to retirement parties….. and her finding out. 

Interested in others thoughts, about balancing what we need to share from a practical perspective, versus what to share, and how to stay out of “ target zone”! 

[Notwendy]

BPD mother does this a lot too. There's a plan in place that she makes a decision on and then, she somehow doesn't know anything about it.

During the time I was visiting, BPD mother told us to "handle everything" and saying things like "All this is on you. I was told I didn't have to do a thing because "nurse's name" will handle everything".

Well she didn't do anything and we knew that- so yes, we met with the nurse coordinator and she handled all the medical aspects. Then we met with the realtor, and someone to clear out the house. Then, a family member and the realtor went to see BPD mother at the assisted living, with the contracts, explained everything and then she signed the necessary papers.

Of course I knew about this- and yet, BPD mother calls me up a few days later saying she didn't know anything about it because it was all done for her while she wasn't there to meet with all these people.

This is what is known as a double bind.

If we insisted she be there with us, we have broken the "promise" that all will be handled for her and that she didn't have to do anything.

If we do it for her, then we have left her out and she didn't know what we did.

You aren't going to win this with your sister. Even if you moved in with your mother, stayed there 24/7, talked to your sister by phone every day, she'd then decide you have "left her out".

You know this already but a reminder, we don't have absolute control over anyone's end of life experience. We've heard stories of people passing when their loved one steps out of the room for a moment. The hope is, of course, that when that moment arrives, you are all with your mother and it's peaceful, but this is not a controllable event.

One thought is that your sister may fear the possibility of being alone with BPD mother if this happens when you are away. So her concern about "mom not being alone" may actually be that she doesn't want to be alone if you go out of town. This isn't a reason to not go on your trip.

I have my own way of thinking about these things but I believe that whenever, or however it happens with your mother, it's divinely directed. I hope however it happens, you can stand firm with your own peace that your mother knows she is loved. I think you also know that your mother would want for you to enjoy this much needed vacation.

[zachira]

Congratulations on your well earned and deserved upcoming retirement!
You are wondering how to stay out of the target zone and have found that less communication is better. You might try doing several drafts of any written communication to your sister and ask yourself on each redraft what you can cut out. It seems that most of the members here have discovered that nearly anything said can become part of the target zone and the more we say the more the disordered people in our lives find ways to be upset with us. I see it all working like an advertisement. One short phrase seems to sell a product well, whereas too much information about the product seems to lose the audience. In the case of a person with BPD, the more information there is, the more excuses they seem to find to target others with their dysregulated emotions.
Best wishes for a relaxing and memorable vacation!
 

[Pilpel]

I agree with other people here.  Your sister's email is manipulative.  I've been NC with an NPD SIL for over 3 years.  And I see a similar style between my SIL and your sister.  There is a strong appeal to consider the feelings of others.  Talking about what poor condition your mom is in, then saying that this wedge between you "has to be heartbreaking to her" is pure obligation and guilt manipulation.

My SIL recently made another appeal to reconcile, promising that she'll try to treat me nicer.  But she starts off her email with "this is hurting your brother and the kids."  Which really puts me off, because this is something she's done for as long as I've known her.

I'm working on a response now, but it's a bit more complicated since my brother sent an email pushing me in a very controlling way to respond, and calling me disruptive to the family for not starting contact again.  BTW, when I went no contact, I purposely did not ask for an apology as a condition to reconcile.  I asked for her to take responsibility for her actions.  Which is much broader.  Like for instance, a year and a half ago, she sent me the first email apologizing.  And I didn't have it in me to respond.  A few months later she started to invent things to blame me for.  She's always had a tendency to target me for accusations and FOG.  So to me, the apology doesn't mean anything if it's followed a few months later with the same unfiltered accusations that made her so difficult to deal with for so many years before.  I try to look at it from the point of view like... what if I treated someone the way she treated me.  What would I consider a justified response?  I would consider it just for them to drop out of my life, even if it were my own child.  And I wouldn't expect I'm owed a response because I apologized.

[Mommydoc]

Pilpel there are very definite parallels in our situation.  And I am in the same place. My sister never apologizes, and she never takes any ownership either.   She goes into love bomb “ sisters forever” phase, but there is never a long period of positive interaction, because it is always a matter of when she will get triggered and dysregulates, and the insults, accusations all then fly around.   It is hard to predict the timing, but it is always going to happen.   

While I was visiting mom, one of the caregivers shared that my sister had called last night, and told them that she had to FaceTime my mother that night or she wouldn’t be able to sleep.  Keep in mind, she had just FT’d the day before with my mom.  I shared with my husband that I sense my sisters anxiety is getting out of control.   He launched into me!   He told me her comments were not due to anxiety, but rather just another example of manipulation, this time of the caregivers since I had not given into her phone call request.  Perhaps both can be true.  I think she is feeling a lot of anxiety about my mom dying and perhaps the “ I won’t be able to sleep comment” was a manipulative. 

After my last response to her, and most recent post, I was pretty sure, I wouldn’t hear from her  and if I did I would not respond. My trip is planned, her trip is planned and that is that…. I did not predict this message at all.    Hi Mommydoc,  Yes, I want to visit you and mom in May with my son. He doesn't get out of school until mid-May. This is one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you this weekend.  Now, I am feeling like waiting a month might be too long.  Husband was supposed to go to a convention in LA the first week of May and I wanted to travel with him. Unfortunately, he is suffering from spinal stenosis and neuropathy. He is not able to travel right now. I have not talked with caregiver or facility about this, which means that mom was able to process, remember and communicate that to them! That is great news, as I had no idea that she was capable of this. I don't want to disappoint her so maybe I will come out that week, anyway. I am traveling to VA / Norfolk next week for a convention. Tomorrow, I will try to find someone to take my place. Let me know when you will be visiting mom at facility next week. I will try to make arrangements to visit at the same time. It might be the last opportunity for the three of us to be together, on Earth. I am so excited that she might be able to communicate with me! Hope to see you next weekend! Please let me know if it works for you.
Love,
Sister

She got me! And you can all say I told you so.  I shouldn’t have told her that I was going to be back between my trips!  I just spent the morning with my mom and had a lovely visit; she is definitely dwindling. I told my mom I would be back to see her next Monday.  It  actually might be better for my sister to come sooner rather than later, and I am OK with seeing her, with other people around at the facility.   We aren’t going to do lunch though!  I am going to sit on this message for the moment as we are headed to a friends house for dinner and the email cadence needs to slow down.  I like the draft, redraft process Zachira, cutting out more and more each time.  Sound bites, with minimal detail. 

I am contemplating something like, “ That is wonderful Sis.  I will be back late Sunday .  Let’s plan on Monday morning at 9 am at the facility.” 

But waiting to send until tomorrow.  I still feel manipulated, and it’s a learning.  But my sister will get her last picture with my mom, me and her together, which if it helps her grieve, is not a sacrifice for me. She posts the last picture of  our family with my dad on Facebook all the time. 

[Methuen]

It gives me a wee bit of solace to know that my mom FOGs other people too.  Even if the FOG to them is in the flat part of the exponential curve (whereas for me it's at peak level), I suspect that all people can feel something is off, and if this happens too often and a pattern is established, then they may pull back.  I have seen some of her friends start spending less time with her for some reason, and then eventually they get drawn back in again (after a fall or an angina attack or some other health problem).

While I was visiting mom, one of the caregivers shared that my sister had called last night, and told them that she had to FaceTime my mother that night or she wouldn’t be able to sleep.

Perhaps there is some level of solace for you in knowing that she FOG's other people too.  This statement is just so manipulative.  Wouldn't be able to sleep...really? It's too bad that knowing the situation, they didn't simply tell sis that they didn't have the staffing to arrange the FT.  Interesting how she has everybody running around her needs.  She probably has some scheme which she shared with your mom.  Next it will be "mom says...".  Sorry if I sound cynical, but when my mom was younger (and her cognitive capacity was fully present), everything around having her needs met involved a scheme. She was just a "schemer".  

She got me!  I shouldn’t have told her that I was going to be back between my trips!  I just spent the morning with my mom and had a lovely visit; she is definitely dwindling. I told my mom I would be back to see her next Monday.  It  actually might be better for my sister to come sooner rather than later, and I am OK with seeing her, with other people around at the facility.   We aren’t going to do lunch though!  I am going to sit on this message for the moment as we are headed to a friends house for dinner and the email cadence needs to slow down.  I like the draft, redraft process Zachira, cutting out more and more each time.  Sound bites, with minimal detail...I am contemplating something like, “ That is wonderful Sis.  I will be back late Sunday .  Let’s plan on Monday morning at 9 am at the facility.”  

My gut reaction to the last sentence is to the word "wonderful".  Is it really?  Or do you want to remain more emotionally neutral and say something like "Sounds good sis, if this is what works best for you.  I will be back late Sunday briefly.  Let's plan on Monday morning at 9am at the facility."  Yes she got you, but the fact is, they're always going to get us, no matter how good we get at this game. You were being honest and genuine, and there's nothing wrong with that.  I like your thought process through the rest of the paragraph.  You've got a plan, and it's a great plan, including NOT doing lunch.  The 9am meeting offer for the 3 of you can be firm, and after that, personally, I would schedule my day so that I am not available to her, even if it means taking my dirty laundry with me on the next trip (so that I'm not at home where she could drop in). The more time the two of you spend together, the more opportunity she has to create chaos. More time spent together means more time to draw info out about your trip ("how could you go away when mom is like this? or "why didn't you tell me? or "...the trust..."), and you may continue to feel the need to explain based on past patterns. In my experience, there is usually a brief honeymoon period with dysfunctional family members when we first get together, and my advice is to use this brief honeymoon period to your advantage and then make your exit before it's over. If sis can't make the 9am for some reason, that is her choice. It's when you are available. Just stick to your plan, and if she's still chattering and pressing buttons and throwing out "dart" statements, "I gotta go.  Enjoy your visit with mom."  Just BIFF.

I suspect there is some reason (scheme) why she wants contact with you so desperately here, and is willing to reschedule her trips at the same time you are going away.  It just smells sketchy. She seems to be doing a lot of work here to see you.  What does she want? Based on the history, I doubt that it's simply about a picture of the 2 of you with mom.  

[Notwendy]

I wonder if she even had a plan in place or was staging the situation to find out your plans and then make her plans. When it comes to manipulation, I know I am out of my league with BPD mother. I don't process like this. She's several steps ahead of me.

I think you and your H are both correct. Sometimes the reason for the manipulative behavior is anxiety. The "victim" position "if you don't do this I won't sleep at night" is putting the resolution for her anxiety on the staff. Oh and poor husband's back issues-- that is shifting the reason for her plans on to him.

Look at the wording of the "plans" to visit. These are a manipulation too. First - the plan is a "maybe" not definite maybe I'll still come that week or maybe the next- followed by a request to tell her when you are visiting. That is another request for information about your plans. Followed by the emotional "it could be the last time" and you are doing your part of emotional fixing her- "well maybe that picture will help her grieve"

Yes, you are feeling manipulated. Truthfully, you don't want to do this in between your vacations. Now you are feeling you should do this for your sister. I also understand the feeling of being manipulated. It's a distinct feeling. It feels uncomfortable to not step in and do the task requested and you feel a sense of urgency. Stop, think on this, sleep on this. Do not reply right away. Then toss this ball back to her.

This email style isn't my usual. My preference is to be more direct. Just be sure your reply is authentic to you but sometimes a "sorry for your problem, what do you plan to do" is a reply.

Dear Sis, I didn't realize your plans were up in the air. I am sorry that your husband is having more issues with his back and can't travel. That must be so hard for him and I know it's hard on you to know he's hurting. I hope you are able to work out your plans to visit Mom while I am out of town. I think this would be a special bonding time for the two of you.

I don't know exactly when I am visiting Mom next week as it will be very busy for me. Please let me know what your travel plans are when you know what week you will be visiting.

Love, Sis

Also cross posted with Methuen. Yes, it's possible there's another agenda for her meeting with you. Hard to know what. Also, yes, they can do this better than we can.

[Methuen]

Just read NW's response and I think she makes great points.  I also really like her suggested email response. I would just leave out the sentence: "I think this would be a special bonding time for the two of you." It's an opinion, and who knows how she would react to your opinion.  The rest of the email is neutral and brilliant because it uses SET and redirects the topic back to where it belongs, and also restores some power balance.  The last sentence is good, but another option is:  Drop me an email once you have your travel plans finalized for visiting mom.  Safe travels for everyone, and I hope H starts to feel better soon.

The situation is icky.

But this too shall pass, and it's great you have wonderful things to look forward to.  Until then, 4 deep breaths, and repeat.

[GaGrl]

Until your retirement is final-final, you will have the excuse that you need to be available for final transition details. So if your sister is manipulating/pressuring you for more time than a brief visit at the faciluty, you can pull up that reason and refuse.

In fact, once you retire, you might need to "consult" sometimes...

[Notwendy]

I like Methuen's version too. I added the bonding sentence as a way to highlight that she's special to your mother but agree, sometimes an opinion can be grounds for dispute.

[Mommydoc]

Sleeping on it helped a lot! So did spending time with friends and a good work out this morning.

I suspect there is some reason (scheme) why she wants contact with you so desperately here, and is willing to reschedule her trips at the same time you are going away.  It just smells sketchy. She seems to be doing a lot of work here to see you.  What does she want? Based on the history, I doubt that it's simply about a picture of the 2 of you with mom. 

I think you are spot on Methuen. I am not sure she actually wants to see me, more she wants me to want to see her, if that makes sense.  We used to travel together a lot and even though she is a meeting/event planner, she changes her plans constantly!   The last time she came for a visit, she let me know 2 days before she arrived, we made plans several times and then she ghosted me over and over.  At one point, I texted her to say I was “on my way” to our meeting place, and she was all of a sudden not available, and I couldn’t nail her down.  I learned from one of my neighbors( also my mothers friend and past neighbor)  that she had last minute called to have lunch with them at that same time.  By the time she was available, I was helping my son move, and decided to stop making myself available.  She reached out a few more times to try to schedule, but I was always busy.  You are so right NW , I am used to accommodating others requests.  It feels very uncomfortable to not accommodate her requests, particularly given the current “ you promised to work with me as co-Trustee”. 

What helps here, is I am going to be gone.  I also know my mom is fine with where the two of us are and this is not for her. Yesterday, my mom told me how happy she was. I asked what was making her happy and she said “you”.  Even though communication is limited, moments like that ground me and bring me a sense of peace about the whole thing.   

I used Methuen’s changes to NotWendy’s suggestion, and took a few things out…such as “ while I am out of town” as she wants to make it all about her coming to save the day because I am out of town.  I also took out that I will be busy, as that totally triggers her, and then she goes into a competition to tell me how busy she is.   Any mention that I am busy seems to equate to my time is more important than hers, and I think I am better than her. I am so grateful for everyone’s support.  Thank you a million times! 

It sounds like your travel plans are still up in the air. I am sorry that husband is having more issues with his back and can't travel. That must be so hard for him and I know it's hard on you to know he's hurting. I am glad you are able to work out your plans to visit Mom soon.
Drop me an email once you have your travel plans finalized for your visit. I don't know exactly when I am visiting Mom next week yet.  Safe travels for everyone, and I hope husband starts to feel better soon.

GaGrl, I have no intention of letting her know I have retired.  I am going to update my linked in page to show a title change, but with same company. Technically, my company has agreed to keep me on as a consultant, so it is accurate.  It will be a little tricky as I launch my new business, but I am pretty sure I can work it. My only fear is someone tagging me in a retirement party post!  I am not going to worry about it, if I have to I will just tell her my job title is changing and I am still working. 

[Pilpel]

My sister never apologizes, and she never takes any ownership either.   She goes into love bomb “ sisters forever” phase, but there is never a long period of positive interaction, because it is always a matter of when she will get triggered and dysregulates, and the insults, accusations all then fly around.   It is hard to predict the timing, but it is always going to happen.   

Even if she were to apologize, apologies are cheap if there is no intention to change.  My own SIL has apologized several times.  But I don't believe I have ever asked for an apology from her.  We've talked around in circles in the past, there have been apologies from her after a lot of talking, but also a lot of "lets agree to disagree."  The main thing I have asked from her is to take responsibility for her choices. 

While I was visiting mom, one of the caregivers shared that my sister had called last night, and told them that she had to FaceTime my mother that night or she wouldn’t be able to sleep.  Keep in mind, she had just FT’d the day before with my mom.  I shared with my husband that I sense my sisters anxiety is getting out of control.   He launched into me!   He told me her comments were not due to anxiety, but rather just another example of manipulation, this time of the caregivers since I had not given into her phone call request.  Perhaps both can be true.  I think she is feeling a lot of anxiety about my mom dying and perhaps the “ I won’t be able to sleep comment” was a manipulative. 

In the first several years of dealing with my SIL, I assumed she had anxiety, because I had experience with anxiety and depression for a lot of my life, and being around her heightened my stress.  I often found myself feeling anxiety, embarrassment, shame for her (for the weird and overtly self-centered emails she sent or absurd accusations she'd throw at me).  It took me quite a few years of back and forth with her to realize, she never felt shame or embarrassment for the things she wrote or said.  I'm not sure if she ever felt anxiety at all in the same way that I felt it.  Psychologist Scott Peck observed that PD'ed people, as he called "people of the lie" were really not internalizing these negative feelings but were constantly causing people around them to experience these negative emotions. 

I was thinking yesterday of how your sister is using your mom's condition to nudge you to reconcile out of obligation to your mom.  But it made me wonder how your sister was with your mom.  If she's manipulative with you, I'm assuming she was just as manipulative with your mom? 

[Mommydoc]

Pilpel, your comments gave me pause. 

It took me quite a few years of back and forth with her to realize, she never felt shame or embarrassment for the things she wrote or said.  I'm not sure if she ever felt anxiety at all in the same way that I felt it.  Psychologist Scott Peck observed that PD'ed people, as he called "people of the lie" were really not internalizing these negative feelings but were constantly causing people around them to experience these negative emotions. 

My sister seems to have anxious behaviors, but she projects them out, and spews her negative emotions on others. I think of her as pig pen in the peanuts cartoon, always has this black cloud surrounding her.  It ‘s hard to know if she manipulates my mother.  I haven’t witnessed it.  She twists what others say, and I have seen her do that with my mom.  But everything kind of rolls off my mom and she seems to be in an exalted position with my mom now as she nears end of life. 

She got agitated, with my last response.  ( no more Love, Sis, ). 

My travel plans "are up in the air"? I have/had no travel plans because I am trying to work around your travel plans. I would like you to commit to when you are visiting mom so that we can do it together. That is one of the reasons I would travel there. Are you willing to commit to visiting her together? Thank you, sister

Still feels manipulative to me.  It’s driving her crazy not to know my plans.  And given that she has a history of changing her plans a million times, there is no reason to commit to a time.  I really need to disengage.

[GaGrl]

Yes, you are correct. She is so tied into you that she cannot separate.

This is her journey to traverse -- you cannot do it for her.

[Methuen]

My travel plans "are up in the air"? I have/had no travel plans because I am trying to work around your travel plans. I would like you to commit to when you are visiting mom so that we can do it together. That is one of the reasons I would travel there. Are you willing to commit to visiting her together? Thank you, sister

No mistaking her emotions there.  She’s not getting what she wants (a meeting with you), hence the “attack” mode confrontation.  

Interesting that she says she has no travel plans.  Didn’t she also say she had something booked but could change it to come earlier?

This is really about control.  She’s needing to drive her hidden agenda, and you’re not reacting as expected in her game.  Hence the attack response.  

She’s wanting a fight here.  My mom would get in these moods where the pressure would build inside her like a volcano, and when the top blows off and she starts spewing her lava, it’s like she’s wanting a big fight, or she gets a rush from the power she feels, which makes her feel good!  Does anybody connect with this?  That they are actually wanting a fight?

When mom wanted a fight there was nothing I could do or say to stop it if I stated in the space with her.  The verbal vomit just has to get dumped.

When are you leaving on the first trip Mommydoc?  Is it today?  Any chance you’re out of cell phone range?

I think your words “I need to disengage” show wisdom.  

Let her deal with her feelings.  Enjoy your trip.  How soon do you go?

[Notwendy]

I have also imagined the "Pig Pen" cartoon with a cloud of chaos.

You didn't reply in the way she expected- you changed the response. Her email was intended to have you commit to when you are visiting your mother and have her set her plans around that. You didn't reply with your plans.

You could send something like this-

"Hi Sis, as I mentioned before, I don't have an exact plan for when I will drop by to see Mom. We are getting ready for our vacation. I will contact you by email when I return. Love, Sis"


Then ignore the messages to come. When we change the response to being manipulated, their behavior may escalate. If what they have been doing has worked for them so far, they may escalate it. (extinction burst).

[zachira]

Not so sure that signing with "love" is the way to go. I stopped signing my communications to my NPD sister and BPD brother with "love" when they escalated their abuses of me and kept all my communications limited strictly to business. It would seem that putting in a communication nothing more than the essential information and adding "love" to the end contradicts the messages in the text. Just my two cents. What are the underlying messages that you can't say directly yet want to convey through your written communications? I think consistency of the underlying messages is key to letting your sister know you will no longer allow her to manipulate you.