Loaning Money to BPD

[rangerman]

 
I have, after many, many years, read a great book on BPD and immediately knew this was what my brother has.  In any case, he "can't work" due to his mental condition brought on by trauma (and thinks he is going to get government disability for quite some time), and "can't downsize" to a cheaper apartment (he lives in a really really nice two bedroom, alone - not a one bedroom, not a studio, and no roommate), for a whole host of other reasons.  For purposes of keeping this post short, let's assume those two things are true.  He has zero income or very, very little.  He has asked for us to start digging into our father's savings (he's in assisted living and worked very hard to save what he could to care for himself and now has dementia).   What do you do here when sibling is on the edge of eviction and refuses (or "can't) do anything.  These "loans" never get paid back, and then the lender becomes the bad person for asking.   And giving one loan enables the behavior to get the next loan, and the next.  Do they have to hit rock bottom themselves?  I know these are their choices, not mine, but I have to protect Dad's money as he asked me to do.   

[Turkish]

Short answer? "No" is a complete sentence.

My BFF's little sister, who was kind of that to me as well, has over the years moved around California, burning though loans she's never paid back to family and friends, including to me. She's dBPD. Emotionally? 47 going on 14.

My mom was dBPD as well. I rescued her for years from financial crises. I later found out that she was also enabled by many others, a poor old woman on a fixed SS income. Yet she was a spendthrift and a hoarder, and 100% responsible for her situation.

I'd known that for many years though the rescues by others I didn't learn until later.

Mental illness or not, your brother is responsible for managing his own life, even if his emotional issues got him into his mess in the first place. Protect your dad's money.

[Methuen]

 What do you do here when sibling is on the edge of eviction and refuses (or "can't) do anything.  These "loans" never get paid back, and then the lender becomes the bad person for asking.   And giving one loan enables the behavior to get the next loan, and the next.  Do they have to hit rock bottom themselves?  I know these are their choices, not mine, but I have to protect Dad's money as he asked me to do.   

what do you do?  Bounce the ball back into his court and kindly ask him what he will do?

The kindest thing you can do is let him be an adult and find his own solutions. 

I completely concur with Turkish. Just “no”. 

I’m sorry to hear about your dad.  The fact that your brother already wants his money says it all.   

Just. No.  Your  brother will push back at the no response, but stay in your lane and keep your dad’s interests firmly at the forefront.  Protect his money.

Your brother is an adult and needs to figure this out on his own.  Don’t try to figure it out for him because it will put a target on your back.

[Notwendy]

I have to protect Dad's money as he asked me to do.    

There's your answer.

It's your father's money and you are acting on his behalf.

Reading about the Karpman triangle will help you to understand the dynamics. I've read- and agree with- pwBPD taking victim perspective. You are not obligated to "rescue" your brother from his own decisions and also, that would be enabling him to continue his behaviors.

Most likely your brother is capable of employment but he won't seek it out if others are giving him money. If his mental health is to the point where he's unable to do that, he should get evaluated for disability. Either way, giving him money would not lead him to either of these choices. I'm with the others to the "no" on that.

[Mommydoc]

Rangerman, your intuition to protect your father is a good one, and I want to amplify all of the prior responses.  Do not rescue your brother and stay focused on your father. 

It sounds like your father definitely asked you to manage his finances, was that verbal, in writing or in a legal document?  Now that your father has dementia, he can’t make financial decisions?  If yes, do you have documentation of that from 2 independent physicians?   Prior to becoming unable to make financial decisions, did he legally name you, your brother or both of you, as durable POA, or Trustees of his assets? Did your father name a Healthcare decision maker?   I ask these questions, as your fathers assets legally should be dedicated to his care and needs.  If you are POA, HC POA or Trustee , you have very firm ground to stand on.   But if your father is incapacitated and your brother has access to his money, there is risk.  Another option is applying to become your fathers conservator, which will give you similar ability to act legally in his best interest.  You want to avoid your brother becoming the conservator, or a non family member. 

My situation is my mother and my uBPD sister.   She also has financial problems and bouts of not working, and wants to reduce the spending on the money on mom so she can inherit more. Unfortunately, we are Co-Trustees and Co- POAs, but I am HC POA.    My attorney suggested that we gift ourselves equivalent small amounts of money periodically as long as my mom could afford it.   That might be a consideration.  We did it once and it calmed my sister down short term and also limits the amount. It doesnt need to be paid back.  It could be a slippery slope and isn’t advisable if it might compromise the funds needed for your fathers care. 

I feel for you.  This is really hard.   Glad you are here and hope you will keep us updated.  This forum is an amazing source of guidance and support.   Participation here has helped me get through some really tough things, and hope you will find the same. 

[Notwendy]

You are wise to protect your father's income. He may need it for his own care and that is what he saved it for.

My father planned well for my parents' elder years but my widowed BPD mother has spent it and then took out a home equity loan and spent that. Her family helped her get to an assisted living situation that her monthly income covers, as she was heading towards the bank repossessing her home. She would not have agreed to this unless there was no other choice.

Now, we have the assurance that she will have her basic needs met- shelter, food, assistance. Her monthly income goes to the assisted living first, and anything left is up to her. She, on the other hand, is fretting about money. It's interesting that we are less worried for her, as we know she will have her basic needs met and she seems to be  concerned about money, for the emotional needs.

There may be a discrepancy between what you see as a need and a want, and what your brother sees as a need and a want. To you, it's obvious he doesn't "need" as large an apartment but to him, that may be seen as a "need" for him. That doesn't go along with reality though. My BPD mother didn't seem as concerned about the possibility of the bank repossessing her house when she leveraged the equity for what she wanted the money for a the time.

Your brother may not perceive the difference between a "want" and a "need" and lending him money perpetuates this. Paying back a loan to a family member would be at the bottom of his list of priorities because there isn't much consequence to not paying it back compared to a commercial lender. If there's any chance for your brother to be more responsible with any income he has, facing the consequences of his spending is probably the only way he might learn.
 

[zachira]

"Do they have to hit rock bottom themselves?" In most cases, the answer is yes. From my experiences working with people with addictions often who have an untreated personality disorder, I have found we cannot be more invested in their getting better than they are, as this enables the dysfunctional behaviors. It is so painful to see your brother continue to go nowhere towards becoming an independent adult, able to meet his financial obligations. The key is managing your distress over this situation while letting your brother manage and own his emotions. So many of us on this site are going down this path, and how badly we feel when our helping does not help can be extremely unbearable at times. Keep us posted on how you are doing.

[Notwendy]

Some of us, myself included, have participated in 12 step groups- CODA, ACA, to work on this aspect of relationships. One thing that helped me to not enable is to see it as not being in the person's best interest- rather than "helping" them.

We don't wish eviction on anyone. However, it is a consequence of not paying rent or a mortgage. It may be that this is what it takes for your brother to learn this. I hope not, for all your sakes, but continuing to "lend" ( give ) him money may lead to him not learning this.