Do BPD spouses actually file divorce or all talk?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

A susceptibility toward PD behaviors and perceptions MAY be due to heredity.  It's also possible there may be a combination of factors.  A large factor seems to be the family environment.  A parent or other major person in the child's life may negatively influence the child.

That said, it is often termed a generational issue and the wise course is to deal with the issues - whatever the causes - with knowledge, compassionate insight and practical strategies to reduce whatever risks there may or may not be for the children and future generations.

This is one of the reasons it has been said here that divorce is not such a bad thing when one of the parents is acting-out so harmfully dysfunctional... distance apart from the discord, even if only for portion of the child's life, allows the child time away so normalcy and stability can have more positive impact for the child.

I could not imagine ever divorcing, not until my very parenting was put in jeopardy.  I was surprised, the divorce proved to be a healthy action overall, considering the circumstances.

This is an unrelated question and feel free not to answer if it’s too personal. I have an uBPDw and I can’t help but wonder if our kids will inherit it. It sometimes gives me pause at the thought of having more kids.

I hope I answered your inherit question above.  I know, there is no single answer.  We do the best we can.

However, should you have children - or have more children?  That depends.  Is your spouse in meaningful therapy and applying it in perceptions, behaviors and life?  If not, then things will likely continue worsening.  (And No, having children doesn't resolve or fix dysfunctional issues, rather it complicates everything.)  If there's the slightest possibility a divorce is in your future due to the marriage's dysfunction then why have children - or more children?  At least avoid it until you know things really are getting better long term.

[ForeverDad]

A susceptibility toward PD behaviors and perceptions MAY be due to heredity.  It's also possible there may be a combination of factors.  A large factor seems to be the family environment.  A parent or other major person in the child's life may negatively influence the child.

That said, it is often termed a generational issue and the wise course is to deal with the issues - whatever the causes - with knowledge, compassionate insight and practical strategies to reduce whatever risks there may or may not be for the children and future generations.

This is one of the reasons it has been said here that divorce is not such a bad thing when one of the parents is acting-out so harmfully dysfunctional... distance apart from the discord, even if only for portion of the child's life, allows the child time away so normalcy and stability can have more positive impact for the child.

I could not imagine ever divorcing, not until my very parenting was put in jeopardy.  I was surprised, the divorce proved to be a healthy action overall, considering the circumstances.

This is an unrelated question and feel free not to answer if it’s too personal. I have an uBPDw and I can’t help but wonder if our kids will inherit it. It sometimes gives me pause at the thought of having more kids.

I hope I answered your inherit question above.  I know, there is no single answer.  We do the best we can.

However, should you have children - or have more children?  That depends.  Is your spouse in meaningful therapy and applying it in perceptions, behaviors and life?  If not, then things will likely continue worsening.  (And No, having children doesn't resolve or fix dysfunctional issues, rather it complicates everything.)  If there's the slightest possibility a divorce is in your future due to the marriage's dysfunction then why have children - or more children?  At least avoid it until you know things really are getting better long term.

[Notwendy]

There are also learned behaviors and learned coping strategies that might "look" like BPD. They've been referred to as "fleas"- probably not the nicest term for that. I think it's inevitable that some behaviors are learned because parents are role models. Some behaviors could be there but through counseling, changed if the person does not have BPD. As I mentioned before- the non BPD parent models behaviors too- such as enabling, walking on eggshells.

Family patterns can be "inherited" not through genetics but due to these learned behaviors being familiar. How we are raised has an influence on who we choose for romantic partners. The dynamics where there's a parent who has BPD are very similar to dynamics where a parent is an alcoholic. This has made ACA groups helpful- and "adult children of dysfunction" is under that umbrella too. The intergenerational family patterns are topics in that program.

Forever Dad mentioned the topic of an environment for the kids that can role model a different family dynamic. That would also mean if someone remarries- they choose a spouse who doesn't have BPD. That's an incentive to do some personal work-counseling- on one's own part in the dynamics- in or out of a relationship- it can help the current one- even if one separates- if there are children involved- there's still the need to communicate with each other- and can help with future relationships.

[livednlearned]

Well she actually filed.  Found the charge on my card today.  

Did she file for divorce, or did she consult with lawyer. If it's a few hundred dollars it may be she just consulted with one and is considering options.

If it's a retainer, she is further along the path.

she called me today to start asking about how she needs to go about finding a house.

To be candid, you're both probably a bit crazy right now.

Talking about divorce is like holding a lit bomb. It's hard to stay grounded.

If she's threatening divorce and taking action, this is going to be an emotionally rough stretch for you.

Did anything happen that wound her up? I'm not suggesting there's fault here, only that you have a goal (stabilize the marriage) and might have to come around faster than she can.

I don't know if me getting over being mad and trying to work it out reinforced her behavior so she's still going trying to get something out of me.

Sometimes lawyers can keep conflict going. She may be getting some validation from this person. A good lawyer will try to be impartial but some will fan the flames (better for business).

Things have hit a flash point for you two. You're probably the one most capable of being the emotional leader right now. You mentioned being over your anger. What's something you two do together that felt close?

It's like a break up. You have to become the guy she fell in love with.

Either way I feel like I lost.   I'm not ready to blow up my family and finances right now and staying together feels like the best option.

You probably won't get a whole lot of help healing from her right now. It's better to get that from a therapist so you can focus on what the relationship requires. She has one foot out the door so it's more like relationship recovery and you deserve to be validated from therapists or here since your wife won't be able to provide that.

People on this board tend to lean toward divorce so keep that in mind. If I were in your shoes I would take her actions seriously and make sure I knew how things worked where I live. People who are a few steps ahead in a divorce tend to come out with better outcomes. You're a step behind and need to at least catch up to where she is. Doesn't mean you have to get divorced, it just means you gather information and level the playing field. You probably stand a better chance of preserving the marriage by learning how things work. That way you can explain to her how her financial situation will change down to the dime. She cannot look for a place to live without knowing how to pay for it, for example.

Meanwhile, be your super great self and catch her by surprise. She wore you down with meanness and abuse and thinks she knows who you are. She's wrong. You're a confident guy with great kids who did his best and likes himself. Make her curious about what there is to like.

It's worth a shot.

[Joaquin]

Thanks for this. It helps to hear that divorce was positive for your children. The reason for having more children would be so my daughter has an ally in life. And because at least so far, my wife is a good mother and is very concerned with our daughter's feelings and how things affect her. But if that changed it would certainly make me rethink things. Compromising my daughter's emotional development is not something I can tolerate.

A susceptibility toward PD behaviors and perceptions MAY be due to heredity.  It's also possible there may be a combination of factors.  A large factor seems to be the family environment.  A parent or other major person in the child's life may negatively influence the child.

That said, it is often termed a generational issue and the wise course is to deal with the issues - whatever the causes - with knowledge, compassionate insight and practical strategies to reduce whatever risks there may or may not be for the children and future generations.

This is one of the reasons it has been said here that divorce is not such a bad thing when one of the parents is acting-out so harmfully dysfunctional... distance apart from the discord, even if only for portion of the child's life, allows the child time away so normalcy and stability can have more positive impact for the child.

I could not imagine ever divorcing, not until my very parenting was put in jeopardy.  I was surprised, the divorce proved to be a healthy action overall, considering the circumstances.

I hope I answered your inherit question above.  I know, there is no single answer.  We do the best we can.

However, should you have children - or have more children?  That depends.  Is your spouse in meaningful therapy and applying it in perceptions, behaviors and life?  If not, then things will likely continue worsening.  (And No, having children doesn't resolve or fix dysfunctional issues, rather it complicates everything.)  If there's the slightest possibility a divorce is in your future due to the marriage's dysfunction then why have children - or more children?  At least avoid it until you know things really are getting better long term.

[Joaquin]

I'm really sorry. I think I know how you feel not feeling ready to blow up your family and finances bc my uBPDw also talked about something like separation for the first time this weekend -- she couldn't handle my emotional limits and felt "trapped" by my inability or unwillingness to meet her needs. It put me in a really bad state, terrified for our daughter and for our finances bc I can't afford to finance 2 homes (wife doesn't work) but I also can't be away from my daughter.

I let things calm down a bit and I consoled my wife as she cried while communicating my acceptance of whatever might happen including separation (I drew on my own fantasies of being alone and happy to find strength here) and reiterated that I care about her, which brought us to a somewhat more positive note. Then she saw me crying the next day and comforted me, after which it felt like our guards were all the way down. We shared some mutual empathy and even talked about how to keep things peaceful and avoid conflict. Things almost snapped back to normal from there and the rest of the weekend was happy.

If you have a way to get your wife's guard down (remember, pwBPD are desperately trying to survive and constantly protecting themselves from difficult emotions they can't manage in healthy ways), maybe you can work your way back to feeling like you're on the same team. Then again, BPD is no small obstacle so it may be out of your control. I really hope it gets easier for you.

Well she actually filed.  Found the charge on my card today.  When I asked her about it all she did was say she was so loyal to me, she gave me everything, she did everything.

When I brought up her yelling, screaming,  blaming everything on me, making up things I never did just to get mad.  Her impulsive over spending.

She even tried to tell me one of the times she raged at me never even happened.

I'm so upset I can't tell if this is a good thing or not.  I was mad at her for the past few days I haven't spoken to her, so I can't tell if this is for attention or not.  Tried to tell her let's work it out and she said no. I'm lost at this point.  Don't want to tear my family up and screw up my kids.  This seems like it will be really bad for them.

[mikejones75093]

Yes its terrible.  We got along for about a week and now something set her off today and she hates me again.

She is making emotional impulsive financial decisions that are going to bankrupt us and I don't know how to communicate this with her.  She doesn't want to hear the facts.   Now she has to "think" again and us saying she's an idiot for "taking me back"  I just don't know what to do

[ForeverDad]

Have you read our topics on Boundaries?  PwBPD resist boundaries.  They won't listen to reason.  So really, the boundaries are on us.  As in, "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  See?  Of course, it is a little more complicated than that, but that's the gist.  Your stance, your response is the boundary.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

How is it she can bankrupt the family?

Does she have access to joint bank accounts?  That's fine, just have separate personal accounts for your paycheck and other funds.  Then just transfer over money for appropriate expenses.

Do you have joint credit card accounts?  That's tougher because when you try to close them the companies may refuse to close them until they're paid off and predictably the other spouse will keep making charges.

Also, if there are inheritances, then you must keep them separate from other accounts.  Once they're commingled with marital accounts or used for marital assets, that merging or use changes them from your money to marital money.

I did a few things that made my separation simpler financially, mostly quite by accident.

(1) Long before, I had wanted her to get her own credit and so while she was working she slowly built up her credit line.  We each had our own credit accounts but let the other be cardholders also.  What happened when we separated was that I canceled my stbEx's card on my personal credit account and I cut up the card I had on her credit account.  It was remarkably simple.

(2) We always had a joint bank account.  But a few months before our big separation, I had needed a new automobile.  We drove together to see a dealer's vehicle, I bought it, she didn't want to sign so it was legally my vehicle.  Well, I had planned to get a 401(k) loan as I'd done before.  My work's 401(k) required me to get my spouse to sign a J&S clause.  Just paperwork to document a loan that impacted the obligations of the account if I died or left work before the loan was repaid.  Standard boilerplate.  Just a signature.  She flatly refused.  Dealer was irate!  I went to my mortgage bank and applied for a loan there, at a higher interest rate of course.  Their requirement was that I had to open an account there and have my paycheck go there.  Oh my, what ranting and raving when she found out.  She demanded I keep my check going to the joint account.  She didn't care that it was her refusing one acknowledgement signature that had caused the change.  And I refused to undo it because that was one of the conditions of the loan.

(3) I still had auto insurance in my name and was paying for both vehicles but I learned that if her car wasn't "garaged" where I lived, the company would notify her to obtain her own different account.  They took that weight of "what do I do?" off my shoulders.

When we did separate my car, my new bank account, my paycheck and my credit card were unaffected.  Sure, she drove a paid for but jointly owned car and we had joint mortgage on our joint house but that was handled during the divorce.

[Notwendy]

Impulsive financial decisions can have a big effect.

This was an issue between my parents. I was aware of it since being a teen ager. I think my father's income was solid- we were not wealthy but we had enough. It seemed as if we had two economic levels in the same family though. Our basic needs were met but the rest seemed to go to BPD mother for whom money didn't seem to be a consideration. Designer clothes, shoes, vacations, whatever, while the rest of us were frugal and budget minded. The financial strain on Dad was obvious.

My father planned well for their retirement. He passed away several years ago. Since his passing, BPD mother's spending has put herself into financial peril. We have tried to stop this, to advise her, but this has no impact. Reasoning with her doesn't seem to get through to her.

I think this relationship to money is emotionally driven and not logical. I think it's another "dysfunctional" relationship where, in the moment, emotion overrides logic. There's a logic to money- math. It's a number. If money in is less than money out, that's a problem. Somehow this doesn't register with BPD mother. If she wants something, that's her focus.

From my own experience, trying to reason, use logic, math, with someone who acts on emotions, this isn't going to work. You need to have some safeguards on your finances. All adults should have some freedom of spending money within their budget - but the larger sum of money needs to be kept safe from impulse spending.

[Joaquin]

Oof. This is starting to explain some of the arguments I’ve had with my uBPDw over money. She’s nothing extreme but her spending logic is based on what she wants now without necessarily factoring in the longer term financial consequences or how it fits into our budget. To her credit she does stress over money and at least talks about reducing spending, but something wasn’t connecting and this may explain it

Impulsive financial decisions can have a big effect.

This was an issue between my parents. I was aware of it since being a teen ager. I think my father's income was solid- we were not wealthy but we had enough. It seemed as if we had two economic levels in the same family though. Our basic needs were met but the rest seemed to go to BPD mother for whom money didn't seem to be a consideration. Designer clothes, shoes, vacations, whatever, while the rest of us were frugal and budget minded. The financial strain on Dad was obvious.

My father planned well for their retirement. He passed away several years ago. Since his passing, BPD mother's spending has put herself into financial peril. We have tried to stop this, to advise her, but this has no impact. Reasoning with her doesn't seem to get through to her.

I think this relationship to money is emotionally driven and not logical. I think it's another "dysfunctional" relationship where, in the moment, emotion overrides logic. There's a logic to money- math. It's a number. If money in is less than money out, that's a problem. Somehow this doesn't register with BPD mother. If she wants something, that's her focus.

From my own experience, trying to reason, use logic, math, with someone who acts on emotions, this isn't going to work. You need to have some safeguards on your finances. All adults should have some freedom of spending money within their budget - but the larger sum of money needs to be kept safe from impulse spending.

[Notwendy]

Yes, my mother's decisions are based on emotion and pwBPD have difficulty with regulating emotions. When she wants something, she wants it immediately and emotionally acts as if she's going to perish from that want and it needs to be fulfilled now. It's similar to an addiction craving, or perhaps a starving person who wants food so badly it's all they can think of until that feeling is filled. But this feeling comes from their own difficult emotions. You can "feed" it but not satisfy it for long. Logic doesn't register in these moments.

I understand the concerns about not divorcing. So if this isn't someone's choice and their BPD spouse is making financial decisions based on their feelings, I think the only boundary that can stop these intense emotionally based decisions is if they can't access the money somehow. I know that marital property is joint, but if there is any way a part of your income can be protected, consider this. Also I would suggest speaking to an elder law attorney/finances for the elderly to see what options there are to protect your retirement plans. You may think it's too early for this, but if there's a 401K savings, IRA- account, you can learn if there are any ways to safeguard it.

[mikejones75093]

We have joint credit lines and she over spends a lot, and I mean a lot.  When I bring it up and show her the math I'm just insulting her earning power.  She spends twice what she makes.

We have had a few changes with jobs and I am now self employed.  It's a 3 or so year plan to get things back but I saved enough to get us through this  easily.

Now she wants to move somewhere else.   She wants to over pay for less of a house plus get a higher rate.  So downsizing to a much more expensive payment.  She doesn't care, apparently it's what's right.

We don't qualify for anything right now because of my recent employment change but she's just dangerous enough to go sign a ridiculous lease and try to take the kids.

[Notwendy]

This has been a constant situation in my parent's marriage and they were from the era where "wives didn't work". My father couldn't control it. He went into debt over it- and this is on a solid income.

My BPD mother just called me up to explain why she wants to spend her money on something every one is advising her not to. I think she calls me up to try to justify her wishes, but I don't even try to reason with her, as there's no point.

 Fortunately, she won't be in dire straits when she depletes her savings as Dad set up a pension/annuity fund which provides a decent amount for her each month but it's below what she's spending now. She will have her basic needs met, just not all her wants. You would be doing all of you a great service to set something up like this- including your children, as we are grateful that she won't be without any income at all.

There needs to be some boundaries on this kind of spending to avoid financial problems

[Joaquin]

This is all really eye opening. Thank you all bc I had completely let this go. Wife doesn’t work and I work 2 jobs. She’s high functioning and sees herself as frugal, so when I would bring up how I dont feel safe with her spending logic she’d successfully kind of argue and FOG me into accepting that she is a responsible person, and over time I’ve just completely let go of all my former budget plans etc. bc I don’t have the bandwidth to carry that stress. We’ve been spending way more than I’m bringing in but it mostly medical so I try to regard it as necessary and I saved enough in my former life to mask it for now. But she admits that she has a bit of an Amazon addiction and keeps jumping from one expensive health experiment to the next without fully exhausting the last one.

Anyway, all this is to say that I let it go but this thread is cautioning me to keep an eye on it again.

[Notwendy]

It's emotionally driven spending. My BPD mother justifies it- because it feels that way to her. Dad also didn't have the emotional bandwidth to continue these arguments either - he just let it go. I don't blame him. We have tried to reason with her and she gets very waify and acts as if we are depriving her.

Seeing my elderly BPD mother get herself into financial jeopardy is upsetting but she does what she wants with it.

[Sluggo]

We have joint credit lines and she over spends a lot, and I mean a lot.  When I bring it up and show her the math I'm just insulting her earning power.  She spends twice what she makes.

I lowered my credit limit on my card which is how I kept from overspending.  This happened post separation but not divorced at the time.

[kells76]

MJ75093, you've been going through these divorce threats for a long time. It sounds exhausting and stressful -- like sure, maybe it's a bluff again, but if it isn't, there's a lot to do on your end to protect your kids and finances. Not a lot of space to relax.

How old are your kids now? How have they been doing with the conflict?

[mikejones75093]

Haven't told the kids yet.  They know mommy yells, they joke about it.

So I caught a glimpse of some unfiled divorce paperwork and she is claiming the reason is MY emotional abuse! And asking for a bigger share because of it.  I am so mad right now.

She didn't file anything yet but are you kidding me?  She runs around yelling screaming and threatening me for years and this is how she's going to do this?

[livednlearned]

If you're in a no fault state, the initial filing paperwork is insignificant. Often, judges don't look at it.

Lawyers in no-fault states treat what's in them like a way for clients to blow off steam.

Family law tends to set off fireworks and create a for/against mentality where someone wins and someone loses, except for those of us in high-conflict marriages and divorces, what we need is managed emotions, ours and theirs.

Your wife is projecting. She has BPD so that's a bit of a given. It's not easy seeing these things in a document but that Claim (and the counter claim) is legal theater for the most part.

It also sounds like she is splitting pretty hard.

[Joaquin]

As livedandlearned noted, this sounds like classic projection while splitting black. We’ve all felt our jaws drop to the floor as our BPD partners unironically accuse us of something they are egregiously guilty of with no self awareness. Lack of insight (into their own behavior) is a hallmark of BPD.

Also, because of their emotional dysfunction, even perceived or imagined slights can feel like historic persecution to them, so they’re usually being genuine about seeing us as abusive or persecutors even while we give everything to them and they walk all over us. They build resentment against us no matter how much we sacrifice ourselves to serve them bc they expect us to fill their bottomless pit of need and cure their chronic emptiness and we inevitably fail because that’s literally impossible. Their inability to manage their own difficult emotions makes them put that impossible task on us bc it’s the only way they can try to cope and survive, dysfunctional as it is.

My uBPDw has accused me of being mean when she’s 10x meaner, accused me of not caring about her needs when I sacrificed my health in 24/7 hypervigilance to serve her in what felt like emotional slavery, and confidently criticized  me of being harsh while painting herself as a gentle sensitive partner when she was aggressively controlling every aspect of my being and criticizing me night and day while I was drowning in so much FOG (and not yet aware of BPD) that I did everything she said with a smile in a futile effort to appease her and make my existence a little more bearable.

I’m really sorry mikejones75093, but plz know you’re not alone and plz meet with a lawyer asap to start protecting yourself. Just do a consultation, nothing to lose.

Haven't told the kids yet.  They know mommy yells, they joke about it.

So I caught a glimpse of some unfiled divorce paperwork and she is claiming the reason is MY emotional abuse! And asking for a bigger share because of it.  I am so mad right now.

She didn't file anything yet but are you kidding me?  She runs around yelling screaming and threatening me for years and this is how she's going to do this?

[mikejones75093]

So where I live you can claim fault and ask for a bigger share of the settlement. 

I'm sure she called her attorney and told her how amazing she is and how I've ruined her life.  That's what she normally does with our friends.

I'm at a loss.  If she files lies like that I won't even be comfortable being around her. 

All the books say don't take it personally but once it comes to blowing all the money and filing with courts she is dangerous.   Not ready to only see my kids half the time but I am so angry right now.

[Notwendy]

Maybe it would help to differentiate between taking something personally and taking steps to protect yourself. Her actions may involve you but are based on her distorted thinking and emotional needs which are about her, not you.

Let's say a robber is trying to steal your money. This is directed at you, and it's your money but is it personal? No, the robber is in need of money, it's not about you. You don't take it personally--- but you also take steps to protect yourself from being financially ruined.

When the book says to not take these words or actions personally- it means on an emotional level- don't assume it's about you or that it's your fault, or that if only you did something different, she'd feel differently. These are the words and actions of a person who has disordered thinking and poor emotional regulation.

You still need to discern what is potentially harmful and what isn't. If someone is upset and calling you names but not causing financial harm, then it's something you can choose to ignore. If someone is causing you financial harm, their motive is secondary. Even if it were personal to you, let's say you knew the robber and they wanted to rob only your money- you still need to stop them right?

With marital property- and divorce threats on paper, the idea of consulting a lawyer for information on how to protect your rights and your assets is wise advice.

[ForeverDad]

Haven't told the kids yet.  They know mommy yells, they joke about it.

I'm sure she called her attorney and told her how amazing she is and how I've ruined her life.  That's what she normally does with our friends.

So, knowing what she surely is claiming to others, how should you counteract her claims?  What did your private and confidential consultations with local lawyers tell you?

Claims are often ignored unless they're substantiated, though of course the fact claims are made does possibly have some amount of impact.  What if you had proof you're not the one creating conflict?  Even the neighbors may not step forward or they may not know what goes on behind closed doors.

I faced that dilemma way back when my divorce was looming.  She was at first contemplating, and later making, allegations how horrible I was.  I fretted that outsiders didn't know what really went on behind closed doors.  We didn't have today's fancy cell phones back then.  So I bought some voice recorders.  I eventually had three since I could never predict when they'd fill up or their batteries lost charge.  Oh my, I got documentation to defend myself, sad reality was court didn't care much, though the agencies surrounding the court did listen sometimes.

I never waved it in front of then-spouse's face, I was not trying to create an incident.  Sometimes she even taunted me to record, believe it or not.  However, i made sure I had this stance... "I'm recording myself, if others get recorded too, so be it."  This way you'd have documentation you're not the one creating scenes or inciting conflict.

I've been here since 2006 and never noticed anyone posting they got in serious trouble for recording.  However in all those years a handful here in very tense custody situations were warned by judges to not record the kids.  Judges don't want children caught in the middle of disputes.

[i-need-love]

1) BPD women tend to be very much concerned about various materialistic needs, financial security, luxury etc.
2) Another thing is, as someone has said in this forum, they choose to stay with just anybody than live alone.
3) They dream about having kids and a family, like all "normal" people do
4) They need men to use them in their everyday functioning (use them as servants to make their own life easier)

All these points are so important to them, that with time they mean more than friendship and sex. So I'd advise you:

1) Take care of your finances and make sure she doesn't make you go bankrupt. It's only when you're broke that she'd be ready to leave you, as you'd become useless in terms of supplying her material needs, fancies and a sense of security. Try and restrict her access to your money, talking to her about that is useless at the moment.
2) Ensure her you're not planning to leave her even when the children are gone, but that you want to stay with her. They are really afraid of being left alone in their old years.
3) Take care of your kids and do your best do be the best father in the world. Make sure to develop even stronger bonds with kids, invest you time and love in them.
4) Don't neglect your household and help her with hard housework.

If you do those things she can get mad, threaten you and say the most nasty things under heaven, but I doubt she's gonna leave you. She would need a practical replacement. And even if one day she does find her new prince (God forbid) make sure you set such high standards for him, that he will hardly ever be able to live up to your example. Protect your money, bond with kids, don't neglect the housework. This is what you can do. And maybe one day or just occassionally she'll be your friend and a lover.

[mikejones75093]

So she's not happy about where we live is the current excuse because she's never been happy.

So we have an amazing custom home bought before the market went wild and a very low interest rate.

She wants to move to a different city to a smaller non custom home that will actually cost us a couple thousand more per month because rates are high.

So keep the house and cut my losses but lose out on having my kids everyday or give in and screw ourselves just to see my kids everyday and at some point in the future she gets pissed about something else and we do it all over again. 

My decision is all about the kids and that's what makes it hard to decide

[ForeverDad]

Many pwBPD are dissatisfied with perfectly fine homes and always chasing that rainbow of moving elsewhere only to all too soon be disenchanted with that new home.  They can't run away from their issues.  If you appease her urge to move then in a few years she will decide something is wrong with that new house

Oh wait, she just filed for divorce while also wanting to move?  Why in the world would you be willing to buy a new house at a much higher expense while in the middle of a divorce?  This feels like a recipe for disaster, possibly a disaster for both of you but almost surely for you.

A thought.  Is your current home jointly owned?  Is your spouse working and contributing to the current home expenses?  What are the kids' age ranges, are they in school or preschool?

Since you're divorcing the house would be wonderful for you to keep, just buy her out at current equity calculations.  Probably there's not much equity to split in so short a time?  Then she could, as a divorced single parent, buy her own house, wherever.  Well, if she has credit and regular income.  Under no circumstances would you jointly own or jointly mortgage a new home for her.  That would be baking in future disasters.

Oh, but she just filed for divorce in your current county.  Oh, then you'd have home turf advantage.  If your lawyer is smart then you'd get a clause in your divorce that she can't move more than XX miles away, 50 miles sounds reasonable.  But if she wants to move that far away, 50/50 parenting would be very difficult, the kids would have to live near one parent or the other for schooling.  (If not currently old enough for school or pre-school, they soon will be, so plan ahead to avoid Gifting Away any potential Leverage now.)

However, she is free to move wherever she wishes, she is an adult after all and free to do what she wishes.  But... the kids would stay in the current area, with you.

[i-need-love]

ForeverDad is right, imho. If your wife is really BPD she's probably undecided and unhappy, constantly depressed and looking for something new to fill the void, pain and emptiness inside her. Most of the time complaining, seldom appreciative, very hard to persuade. She believes she'll find her rest and peace in that new house, but that might be the case just for a moment. It doesn't really matter what she wants in this respect, you're dealing with a 3 year old girl in an adult woman's body. You've done your job really great as a man, a father and a husband: you've got her a nice house, you've given her kids, you've provided for her needs and you've stayed with her, though she has stopped being the person that you fell in love with: a dear friend and a seductive lover. She should appreciate that, but she probably refuses to most of the time.

You've lost your friend and a lover. That's really tough, painful, horrible. You've been tricked, trapped and mistreated. If you cannot win her over, which you probably hardly can, remember about the kids. Make them your priority. Invest in them your love and time as much as you can and as much as it's possible in your situation. Do your best to bond with them. A good father for her kids is a very important thing for her and make sure any possible replacement she's dreaming about won't ever be able to live up to even half that level and standards of being a father as you are. If she's talking divorce she's thinking about your replacement, BPDs can't stay alone for too long. Make sure she's gonna have a really hard time finding anyone your level, especially as a father. Set the standards as high as you can so that if she finally decides to replace you she'll always regret that decision.

And if you keep treating her like an adult, healthy, mature, grown-up, sensible person you'll always rage and get mad at her trying to get across some seemingly obvious, simple and reasonable messages, while she'll blantly refuse to listen or accept them. If you start dealing with her as with a partially mentally disabled person (she is disordered anyway) you won't be that much furious when you meet this stubborn ass in her time and again.

You have fullfilled her needs in terms of kids, financial security, household and housework. You've lost your dream woman and your dream is gone, shattered. She still has some of her important needs supplied by you, even if you're no longer her prince and saviour. She probably does not supply any longer your needs and dreams as a woman. So she's in a much better position than you and it's still not enough for her. Whatever you do and no matter how hard you try, she might never be happy about you again.

Mind your own business as a husband. Provide for your family, bond with the kids, don't neglect the housework. Don't treat her like a doormat and a slave, i.e. don't treat her the way she treats you. I know it's not fair. But just make sure that if she keeps talking divorce and dreaming about your replacement she's gonna have a really hard time finding anyone like you. Knock this stupid dream out of her head and make her realise that her fancies are unrealistic. Make things as hard as possible for your imaginary replacement for her to see. You don't have to be super nice to her, just don't be too nasty and disrespectful.

She's a 3 year old girl with privileges of an adult. Don't let her ruin you financially. If she wants a new house let her buy it herself. You've done a great job in this respect, but the little girl ignores it, disrespects you, doesn't appreciate your effort. Tough. BPD is just a little girl that wants to order you about. No point reasoning with her. Set your boundaries. You've done great and that's all.

[Notwendy]

For i-need-love-

When I read your first post about what you think is the way to avoid divorce, it made me cringe a bit- because, I have seen that plan carried out - between my parents. Most of what you wrote sounds like what my father did. I agree- even if my BPD mother threatened to divorce, she'd have not ever found anyone who would have tolerated her behavior and catered to her feelings and wishes as much as he did. So yes- maybe he was an incentive to not leave her, but I also saw how this affected him.

I wonder if some of the recommendations you have for keeping a spouse with BPD from finding a replacement are things you wished you had done or feel you need to do. It sounds as if it might work, but from my own perspective- seeing my father attempt this for decades- doing these things out of fear of being left for someone else is not in the best interest of anyone in the family, and enabling someone with BPD is not in their best interest either.

I don't think there is one "best path" to take in these situation. Each one is going to have pros and cons, and also risks. Having boundaries involves the risk that she might be so dissatisfied with the relationship that she does find someone else. However, being in complete submission to her wishes to attempt to prevent this also risks you losing yourself. I really don't know what the best choice is, but I have seen your plan and it's a difficult one too. While it may have succeeded in my mother not being able to find a better replacement, it had its own set of challenges.

[i-need-love]

I'm not sure if what I've suggested is a way to prevent divorce, as we have very little influence on the decisions that a BPD person makes. But I think that in such a horrible situation, when you are stuck with a person that no longer is your dear friend and lover, and there isn't too much you can do about it (for various reasons: kids and the like) one of the best things is to mind your own business and focus on those things which one can do and which one is supposed to do anyway.

I'm not advising to give in and be a martyr or a slave at all costs just to save the marriage. On the contrary, I'd not yield to the idea of buying a house in a different area if that should be too much of a burden for me and ruin me emotionally. No matter how much the wife should rage. But at the same time, I'd focus on doing those things I am supposed to do, and I'd do them the best I can. I cannot change other people and force them to be what I want them to be. But I can try and do my part the best I can, even with this additional revengeful or spiteful motivation, that if they decide to dump me and replace me, they'll regret it. The higher the standard I set for my potential replacement, the better. That would be actually my only revenge. But, hopefully, my efforts (whatever the motivation) should serve for the good of the family. Kids will definitely benefit. Focus on what you are supposed to do. Can you make BPD grow up and behave? It's exausting.

[Notwendy]

FWIW,  kids don't benefit from any kind of revenge or attempts to be so amazing that there's no possible replacement for you. When so much focus is on this effort, there's not much left over for your kids. And when your wife's "needs" are in conflict with theirs, you will default to hers.

If revenge and proof that you are the best husband ever is your goal, then this goal will preoccupy you. It's all about the emotional connection between the two of you that becomes the priority.

[livednlearned]

So she's not happy about where we live is the current excuse because she's never been happy.

So we have an amazing custom home bought before the market went wild and a very low interest rate.

She wants to move to a different city to a smaller non custom home that will actually cost us a couple thousand more per month because rates are high.

So keep the house and cut my losses but lose out on having my kids everyday or give in and screw ourselves just to see my kids everyday and at some point in the future she gets pissed about something else and we do it all over again.  

My decision is all about the kids and that's what makes it hard to decide

It's hard for us to know -- for anyone to know, including her -- whether this is headed for divorce.

She has filed and retained an attorney, and is also saying she wants a different house. She's implying that she wants to divorce because she needs this new house. Is that accurate?

When you say "that's what makes it hard to decide" do you mean hard to decide whether to capitulate to her demands to buy a new house?

It sounds like (from piecing together your posts) that there is a deal on the table to call off the divorce if you give her what you want.

Or (also from piecing together your posts) she is done. She has filed. It's over. And you may be on your back heels trying to catch up?

If so, it's possible that you two are in two different stages of divorce. She has processed it and is moving forward, making you think that this new home is a bargaining chip to stay married when it may actually be her way of experiencing a split. Hard to say.

In one scenario, you have a choice to make (buy the house or get divorced). You may find more skilled support on the Bettering board.

In the other scenario, it seems less like there's a choice to be made other than which attorney will you retain to protect yourself and your kids.

If it's the latter, my friend I would call an attorney stat.