questions for the divorce lawyer?

[thepixies21]

Hey everyone, I have my consultation with a divorce lawyer scheduled for next week. I'm so nervous, but when I think about backing out, I feel worse, so I know it's what I need to do. Trying to just take it one step at a time but the anxiety with all of this is unreal. I'm researching good questions to ask, but thought I would ask those of you who have been through this, what are good questions for a divorce lawyer given that my husband has BPD? Thanks for all your support, I can tell you confidently that I wouldn't have even considered taking this step without the advice, insight, and push from those of you on this site.

[kells76]

Hi thepixies21, it's smart of you to work through questions here before your consultation 

So let's get your situation out on paper here, and I bet that will clarify the important questions to ask.

Am I remembering correctly that you guys have no kids?
How long was the marriage?
Do you own or rent your house?
Can you describe both of your earning histories (i.e., were you both basically equal income earners, were you always the higher earner, did it flip back and forth, other)?
Do you have any pets, and is it clear whether both of you or only one of you is the owner?
What high-dollar items (cars, loans, credit cards, etc) are involved, and in whose name are they?
What are your safety concerns for yourself?

...

Even before having that sketched out, a few questions come to my mind, that I'd consider asking the L:

"My situation is unique in that I suspect [or -- can you remind me -- does he have an official diagnosis?] my H has BPD. Additionally, he has substance use issues. It is likely that he may stonewall/footdrag/delay/guilt-trip and that a "reasonable" or "typical" approach may not be effective. What is your experience with high-conflict or passive-aggressive divorce situations, and if you were in my situation, who would you recommend to handle this?"

...

Lots more we can work through, but I'll post this as a start. We're here for you;

kells76

[thepixies21]

Thank you kells, it is very appreciated. I think that is a good opening question for the lawyer.

To answer your questions:

Am I remembering correctly that you guys have no kids? - yes, no kids.

How long was the marriage? - together 14, married 4.

Do you own or rent your house? - we own our house, and we bought it last year which really sucks :-( the deed is in both of our names but I make all the payments, it's only my name on the loan.

Can you describe both of your earning histories (i.e., were you both basically equal income earners, were you always the higher earner, did it flip back and forth, other)? - it is very lopsided. I was always the high earner, it didn't flip back or forth. He is currently not working and has not for over at least a couple years, and told me in no uncertain terms that he has no intention to work again.

Do you have any pets, and is it clear whether both of you or only one of you is the owner? - we have a dog, who we both love, and I'm terrified of how we will handle that situation

What high-dollar items (cars, loans, credit cards, etc) are involved, and in whose name are they? - we both have loans, I have a lot more from school.

What are your safety concerns for yourself? - for me, I think it's more emotional safety. I'm worried he will hurt himself, I'm worried he will not let up and will hound me about the divorce, will ask a lot of "why" questions, will want examples. I'm worried he will drink heavily. I don't think he will smoke again, he seems genuinely afraid of how he acted last time, but I guess you never know.

[ForeverDad]

One reason kells asked about past and current income levels was that there may be support issues that arise.  Your spouse may seek support claiming spouse can't work or whatever.  Even though you've been together longer, many states only consider the length of the marriage.  Your consultations can inform you how your local and state polices and laws address such matters.

Beware of your own personality inclinations.  Often we got ourselves into this long term mess because we try to be Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  Well, now it's time to stand up for yourself.  You'll have to resist your overly nice or overly fair instincts throughout the divorce.   While court will legally unwind the marriage, your priority must be to protect your own interests, your own "self".

One ways is to picture yourself 5 years down the road.  All the current angst is faded into the past.  Your life is finally solidly on track.  Looking back, what might you regret doing or allowing during the divorce?  What seemed nice and fair during the divorce but you look back and regret doing or allowing?

You might be limiting your options if you only see one lawyer.  Consulting a few can give you a better idea of which are more experienced and which gives you "the best bang for your buck".   Major complications are custody and parenting issues.  With that not a consideration, you can focus on the financial (assets & debts), ownership and areas of likely adult conflict, manipulation, delays and sabotage.

As an example here is a reply I made to another family recently facing a divorce.

Keep in mind of course that this site should not be revealed to the acting-out disordered spouse!  When a person is trying to repair a marriage then sharing information is important but once the relationship is ending then priorities change and communication should be limited to only needed financial disclosures and parenting matters such as exchanges and children's health, etc.  So avoid revealing TMI, especially your strategies.  Our pwBPD are experts at sabotage and obstruction.

So that you don't miss out on assorted ideas and strategies, look through the threads on this board.  Many have arrived here and asked your question and you'd be wise to read their replies.  It's amazing how the different situations reported usually include replies with similar suggestions.

Many books described in our books board are especially helpful, including Splitting by William Eddy (focused on the divorce process).

Splitting emphasizes not just any lawyer is up to the task ahead.  Many are excellent for simpler cases if all that is needed is forms filing and hand holding.  While you may not find a lawyer with a shingle stating "I handle Borderline cases", when interviewing several and hearing their experience and possible strategies, you should get a feel for a short list of both experienced and proactive attorneys.  I recall that an apt question could be, "If you were facing a very high conflict divorce case like mine, who would you choose to represent you?"  That too can help narrow whom to interview.

As strange as it may sound, many of the acting-out PD divorces described here do end with settlements.  Courts aim for settlement and will do almost anything to avoid outright trials.  Sure, there will still be loose ends and post-divorce you may still file for issues that pop up later, but even now ... make a list of which issues need priority when the time comes for wrapping up the final decree's terms.  Be aware that at that point with the finish line in sight the lawyers will be in a rush to finalize everything and could overlook some crucial issues and concerns you could have.

This reminds me of the time I typed up a detailed list of issues before one court hearing.  It had 11 pending and ongoing issues.  Unfortunately I organized them by topic, not priority.  We had only a brief time at the hearing (often only a half hour) and we only addressed maybe 3 items.  I was so frustrated with myself.

Courts typically start with a short hearing to issue a "temp order" then order a mediation attempt, it's okay if it fails but you should make an honest attempt (though without sacrificing self).  Unfortunately our cases are often long and protracted, so realize up front that a supposedly temporary order may persist for one, two or more years.  So best advice is that you and your lawyer need to try hard to get the best (or "least bad") terms in the temp order.

Counseling is very recommended.  My own lawyer said, "Courts love counseling!"

There is a lot of education for tools, skills and whatnot here.  Browse our Tools and Skills workshops board here.

[ForeverDad]

Can you describe both of your earning histories? - it is very lopsided. I was always the high earner, it didn't flip back or forth. He is currently not working and has not for over at least a couple years, and told me in no uncertain terms that he has no intention to work again.

Notice that he quit work after you married.  Clearly he is able to work but decided to quit and hang onto your financial coattails once you were in what he considers an obligated relationship (marriage) where you are stuck with him.  We often mention BPD F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  Ponder those aspects.

Do you own or rent your house? - we own our house, and we bought it last year which really sucks :-( the deed is in both of our names but I make all the payments, it's only my name on the loan.

This sounds like a dilemma, knowing he may refuse to move out, but it doesn't have to be.  Yes, it was a bad move for you to be the only one on the mortgage while both of you were on the deed.  There is a way to address even that.

If it doesn't matter that you were the only one paying the mortgage and if he won't be reasonable and move out then you can ask the court to force a sale and then you divide the proceeds or loses.  (If a sale is forced then you have to be literally on top of every step of the process, otherwise he will find ways to sabotage and delay.)  Yes, you might lose the house, but you haven't been there long so may not be very attached to it.

What are your safety concerns for yourself? - for me, I think it's more emotional safety. I'm worried he will hurt himself, I'm worried he will not let up and will hound me about the divorce, will ask a lot of "why" questions, will want examples. I'm worried he will drink heavily. I don't think he will smoke again...

This reply is simple, from a logical aspect.  Can you separate the reality from the emotional?  Court will view him as an adult.  Court and all the professionals will state the adult relationship (marriage) is over.  Repeat, he is an adult.  You will no longer be his caregiver, his substitute pamperer or substitute whatever.  If he is that needy, then the agencies around the court can find him housing, doctors, and other services.  Emotionally you will have to Let Go and let him live his own life just as you live yours.

[thepixies21]

Beware of your own personality inclinations.  Often we got ourselves into this long term mess because we try to be Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  Well, not it's time to stand up for yourself.  You'll have to resist your overly nice or overly fair instincts throughout the divorce.   While court will legally unwind the marriage, your priority must be to protect your own interests, your own "self".

I appreciate that advice, I'm known to do things to make others happy and then regret it down the road, so I think I do need to keep myself on track and make sure I'm protecting myself.

[thepixies21]

This reply is simple, from a logical aspect.  Can you separate the reality from the emotional?  Court will view him as an adult.  Court and all the professionals will state the adult relationship (marriage) is over.  Repeat, he is an adult.  You will no longer be his caregiver, his substitute pamperer or substitute whatever.  If he is that needy, then the agencies around the court can find him housing, doctors, and other services.  Emotionally you will have to Let Go and let him live his own life just as you live yours.

I do need to keep reminding myself that this is an adult I'm dealing with, and being in a marriage doesn't mean that he is completely absolved of ever needing to take care of himself. The emotional letting go I think is going to be the tough part for me, but I'm pretty confident I can do it, when the time comes. It's just going to be a bear. I'm trying to undo my own mental brainwashing and this feeling of responsibility I carry for others. I think it'll be worth it though, just gotta keep pushing.

Thanks for the reminder :-)

[livednlearned]

A family lawyer is likely to see your situation as pretty simple. Kids complicate things.

The marriage isn't all that long (10 is considered consequential in many states for alimony).

Your biggest issue is selling the house and while there is some legal stuff involved with the dog (which will likely be considered marital property) that issue will probably be more about boundaries since your dog is a good ruse to stay connected to you.

One thing to keep in mind is that your ex is not where you are emotionally, so he might be reeling while you've already moved on. You might have to let him go through the stages of emotion you've had a chance to go through. I would expect some raging and acting out for a period, and then begging, pleading, followed by excessive drugs to try and get back at you. He's not likely to have either foot on the ground while you have both. "Ok, here's this phase" might help to keep you grounded while he dysregulates, so you don't get on that roller coaster with him.

When it comes to selling the house, it really helps if you structure proposals in ways where even non-compliance or stonewalling cannot slow things down. For example, if you need the house appraised, suggest three appraisers and have your H pick one he's ok with. But give a date for when it needs to be done. "If plaintiff hasn't picked an appraiser by day/date, defendant will pick one." Do that for every possible item that requires consent, like picking a realtor. And agreeing on house price. You might want to include something like, "Offers made within 5 percent of asking price are valid. As the person paying the mortgage, Pixies has final approval on ok'ing the offer. If it were me, I would also have consequences for non-compliance as much as possible. There may be limitations to what you can do in terms of real estate (like what you can do if he doesn't turn up for signing), but you could say that failure to sign documents within 5 days of receipt will lead to a quit claim deed and court costs will be covered by whomever fails to appear." That's not quite rewriting a law but it gives you some insurance if your H drags his feet to spite you, or just falls into a dysregulation in response to feeling abandoned. Your lawyer can help you phrase it.

The real estate piece of my divorce was gnarly but we got through it and I wish someone had told me to be this specific because lawyers aren't exactly driven financially to help you close these loopholes because a trip to court is money in their pocket.

You could also incentivize him to get things done quickly if you say, "Signing documents within x days of offer will mean greater percentage for ex. Failure to sign in a timely matter will result in less percentage." That would not work with my ex because his spite was greater and his desire to stay negatively engaged was stronger, but he also has very pronounced narcissistic traits.

I know that language seems hard to take in, and it might take a bit, but that language is a bit different in family law court. Plaintiff just means the person who filed first and defendant is the person responding. There will probably be a "complaint" that you'll file, and it should just be boilerplate, but your H may get involved and have his L write things that rarely gets read by anyone other than you. It's theater. A way for both parties to discharge emotion in a legal sense.