Why he has to make me feel like I'm always wrong?

[Tortuga50550]

Hi everyone,

I'm a university student, living with my mother and my BPD father. My BPD father has had a history of violent outbursts, impulsive decisions and no respect for boundaries since I'm a child. Because of this, I've developped CPTSD as well as self-esteem issues.

However, since my mother ask him for the divorce, my father has started seeing a therapist, and has stopped his violent outbursts (for the moment, it's been just four months, I don't believe this will last long). My father wants to talk to me about what has happened in the past, I guess to "make amends" and to "forgive each other" and yadayada.

I have refused. I'm still in treatment, and don't feel ready. I fear him from the deepest part of my heart, and feel that I need some more confidence on my self before discussing something that is so sensible to me to this day. He hasn't talked about it, till today, where he cornered me when my mom was out and asked me when we were going to talk. I answered someday, and he said that he wanted to talk, since he's getting old and he could die at any moment (his in his early 60s). And then he left for work.

I was triggered, and I'm still in a fly and fight mode. I cleary told him I didn't want to talk about anything that had to do with it. So I decided to text him, not to blame him about what he did, but to teld him that I didn't like it, because I felt cornered, and that I wasn't prepared to talk about it, so that he should just let it be for the moment.

I was polite. I swear. I even send the text to my mother to confirm I was not shaming him, but only talking about my feelings. He did not take it well. First, he tried to call me, wich I didn't answer, since I was still shaking. Then, he let a voice message. I heard it: wrong move. I'm shaking even more.

He acccused me of beliving I'm some sort of goddess, above of everyone and everything. And told me I was being violent and cruel to him (he said a lot more, but I don't remember everything and I refuse to hear it again). I yelled in my bathroom and I started to cry. I feel hurt. The only thing that I asked from him was to respect my boundaries. I always do that for him, I don't know what's so difficult about doing it for me.

I'm not going to answer yet, since I'm still shaking and my body is hurting me right now (it happens when I'm very stressed, is it normal?). I don't want to enter the anger game. I think I'll just tell him that I don't blame him nor want to hurt him, but that I just ask him to respect my boundarie as adults. No mention of his goddess comparaison or  whatever.

I abandoned and afraid. And sad. I thought he could change. But I guess BPD are still themselves, even without breaking physical things. I feel angry too, and guilty. No matter what I do, I always end up feeling like I'm a bad daughter. Even if what I ask it's just...normal.

I don't know if I need advice, but I would really appreciate some encouragement. Something to feel less like crap.

[Methuen]

Tortuga, I get it.  I understand your feeling of not being ready to talk to him.  It’s even possible you are never ready to talk to him, unless his treatment is successful a few years from now.  Not being ready is about not feeling safe.

Does your mom support you?

Where are things going with the divorce?

You are right in thinking that your dad should respect your boundaries.  If he can’t, that’s on him.  You have a right to feel safe, physically and emotionally.

Living in the same house as your dad is difficult because it doesn’t give you space from him to recover. 

I’m guessing you are already doing all you can to avoid him. 

What can you do to take especially good care of yourself today and for the next while?

 

[Tortuga50550]

Thanks Methuen, I really appreciate your kind words.

For the moment, the divorce is in a... kind of freeze state. My father has just started a new job one or two months ago, so for the moment he's still living with us. In December they're suppose to talk again about how they're going to organize themselves. So for the moment there's no more divorce talking till then, and my mom is trying to have a convivial relationship with my father in the meanwhile. Wherever they'll be divorcing or not is up to them, so I try not to ask to much questions about it.

My mom has always supported me, but I think after what happened, she's way more supporting. In the sense that, before, she said to me to take my time in forgiving my father, but to please not cut contact with him when he will move out. Yesterday however, after I told her what happened, she told me to do what I thought it was best for my mental health. She knows I have CPTSD, but I don't think she realized till wich point it trully affected me (both physically and psychologically) till she saw my state yesterday. She said that it was not worth it if it mean hurting myself each time I would need to put boundaries.

I’m guessing you are already doing all you can to avoid him.

What can you do to take especially good care of yourself today and for the next while?

You're guessing right, I avoided him yesterday as much as I could. Wich was easy, since I had a night shift. I went to sleep just a few hours he woke up to go to work, so I haven't see him since yesterday morning. My mom wants to talk to him about what happened, to see if she can make him reason, or in the worst case, to ask him to leave if he's not going to respect my boundaries. So in the mean time, I will still avoid him, at least for today.

I'm trying to relax my body a little bit, to destress by walking and massaging the parts where it hurts (because of stress). It dosen't allways work, or it doesn't work for too long, but at least it gives me some break from the physical hurt. I've also been taking some comfort food (bubble teas mostly) and reading books. I also contacted one of my best friends yesterday, telling them about what happened, and we're possibly going to see each other during the weekend.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi tortuga !

I remember the last post from you I read, I think your father was out of town, and I do remember your mother asking you to forgive him and talk with him. I am so grateful to hear she now understands more what you are dealing with (C-PTSD) and is being supportive through this. This is a nice change, and I am glad you have her and safe friends to help you feel better.

Living with our main trigger is a terrible experience. It is. And yes, last time I lived in my mother's house, I regressed to a tiny, scared child, and yes, my body hurt too. I kept having nosebleeds from the anxiety; my body was reacting to the trauma. Just her mere presence was triggering, and when she started acting out, which is bound to happen at some point, it just made it all worst. Like you, I would hide, ended up leaving without saying goodbye.

You are not a terrible daughter. Be kind to yourself. This is a hard situation to be in and it will pass, but in the mean time : only offer yourself compassion and kindness, please. You are an amazing person, and you have a right not to want to discuss things. We all do. You did well not to let him bully you into it, as hard as it is, you stood up for yourself. It is hard. You will make it though. I am sending you support and good vibes your way, here's a hug from an internet stranger that cares : 

[Notwendy]

Tortuga- It's great that you are in university. College was my path to becoming financially independent from my parents.

The hard part about being in college is that it's an "in between" where you are on the path to independence while still relying on your disordered parents to get there.

IMHO, laying low, let them have their issues, don't allow them to abuse you but also avoiding getting emotional yourself- so you can stay centered on your goal.

My BPD mother also occasionally does the "lets' wipe the slate clean and start over" garbage - and it's garbage because she expects me to go along with it. This isn't an amends. It's them not being accountable for anything they have done. It's to make themselves feel better.

The "we need to talk" is an invitation for them to dysregulate. This serves a purpose for them to clear their own feelings. After these "talks" - they feel better, and you don't.

When I speak to my BPD mother, I keep our discussions to light topics. I do not share my feelings with her. Sometimes it seems she's looking for an opportunity, trying to get me to respond.

You may have to share a space for the moment, but once you graduate you will have other opportunities. Stay focused on your studies. Take every opportunity to enhance your future career success- with part time jobs, internship, volunteer activities. And some of your interests- join a student club. Stay calmly detached as much as possible with your parents. These are their issues not yours.

[Tortuga50550]

Thanks everyone for your kind words! It makes me feel less alone and more confident about my decisions, thank you so much.

Riv3rW0lf, yes, it feels very nice that she understands more my situation. I tried to explain to her, but sometimes it feels difficult to put words to feelings I've been suppressing for so long. I now have told her I might go on NC with him when he leaves home. It makes her sad, not necesseraly for her, but for the relationship I used to have with my dad when I was a kid, and for not realizing sooner how I was hurting. I still doubt a little bit this support, seeing how things were in the past, but I know will work this out.

I'm sorry you had to live that situation. It's very similar to what I experience: the feeling of fear 24/7 and the physical pain that comes with it. I do love my father, despite everything, but even if he were to change, I don't know if I could handle everything that he represents in the long run. All these years of violence--maybe not physical nor towards me, but still violence. It's hard to forget it, specially when your body still reacts to it.

Thank you for your hugh. Here's also my hugh for you: 

Notwendy, College is bot the best part of my life and the worst. The best because I can be away from home (bettween my classes, my part-time job and my volunteer activities) and the worst because all the student debt I'm going to collect. I really hope I'm able to get a job--I will, but sometimes, I can't help but imagine a dark world where I'm stuck forever in this situation at home...

I also agree that the "we need to talk" is bullPLEASE READ. I have heard him talking with my mother about our issues, and always my father takes away part of the responsability by saying "she's too sensitive" or "she was a kid, she could not undernstand everything that was going on". By he's answer the other day, I don't think it would be much different if we talked. And I still don't have all the touls to confront a BPD person face to face. It's a little bit easier by text, but still demands all of my energy.

As an update, my parents talked. It seems that my father has "understood" (though probably not, since when my mother talked about my C-PTSD, he said that I should just "confront the problem to be able to get over with it") and will not talk about it. It seems he's been feeling both jealous and alone, since my mother and I have a stronger connection than either of us has with him, and since we don't want to do activities the three of us together. He proposed the other day to do a vacation trip the three of us and got angry that both my mom and I didn't want to go with him.
(Wich is normal given the past trips we did with him, and the current situation...weren't they divorcing? I understand him less and less.)

So, for the next few weeks, I think he'll be calm, if he follows the same patterns he always does. We'll have to see if he really accepts my boundaries.
But I'm not giving up on them, that's for sure.

[Notwendy]

Yes, being a student with limited income and loans is scary. Have faith, you will figure it out. I have lived in spaces with lots of room mates just to keep the rent low, worked at all kinds of jobs- fast food, tutoring, office jobs- just to manage to minimize any reliance on my parents' support as much as possible. My college was too far from home to live there. From the perspective of minimizing debt, staying with your parents is a wise decision. If it were abusive, that's another consideration but I think you are able to make it work as best as possible.

It's scary but believe you can do it. If your parents divorce, you could stay with your mother if you needed to so you could repay the loans faster.  

For me, I decided to not confront my BPD mother. Due to her projection and dissociation, it's useless. Doing so is like if you threw a little trash in a full trash bin and the bin tossed all of the contents back on top of you.
I have also come to accept that due to her BPD, any relationship with her is limited. She sees things from a victim perspective. Victims are not accountable. Your father may do this too, think the two of you are being mean to him by not going on vacation with him, rather than to understand the reason why. It's not possible to make him realize what he's not emotionally capable of due to the distorted thinking. You can still care about him, treat him cordially, but you can't change how he perceives things.

[Methuen]

The best because I can be away from home (bettween my classes, my part-time job and my volunteer activities) and the worst because all the student debt I'm going to collect.

Tortuga, you've probably already done this, but have you also checked out what grants/scholarships might be available?  When I was at uni, I just assumed scholarships was for the top few percentile.  Later I found out that students in the B range were getting some, so I certainly could have.  I'm not sure if it's worth your time to ask some questions at the financial aid office or check out the options online.  Some  colleges/unis also have grants where I am.

Each time you start to focus on the debt, is it possible to nudge your thinking to the future opportunities instead?  Kind of reset the thinking to glass half full?  Being a student is stressful at the best of times.  Do you get any financial support from your parents at all?

As an update, my parents talked. It seems that my father has "understood" (though probably not, since when my mother talked about my C-PTSD, he said that I should just "confront the problem to be able to get over with it") and will not talk about it. It seems he's been feeling both jealous and alone, since my mother and I have a stronger connection than either of us has with him, and since we don't want to do activities the three of us together.

This made my blood boil.  Typical, just typical.  This is just what people say when they don't have the courage or emotional intelligence to be accountable for their role in the issue or just be kind and empathetic.  Like someone who says "she should just get over it" after a rape or systemic racism attack.  Geez.

Tortuga, you have full support from this forum.  Just keep your head down and stay in your lane with all your goals.  Try to keep a laser focus on those goals, and don't take his bait for drama.  My mother used to throw verbal darts at me to draw me in.  It drove me crazy, but once I was onto what she was doing, I did not take the bait.  I love NW's metaphor of the trash can spitting all the garbage back at you.  That made me laugh.  The only thing I would add to that metaphor is that there is a multiplier effect to the trash coming back at you.  If we say one thing they don't like to hear (small piece of trash), it will come back at you violently 10 fold.

 

[Tortuga50550]

Tortuga, you've probably already done this, but have you also checked out what grants/scholarships might be available?  When I was at uni, I just assumed scholarships was for the top few percentile.  Later I found out that students in the B range were getting some, so I certainly could have.  I'm not sure if it's worth your time to ask some questions at the financial aid office or check out the options online.  Some  colleges/unis also have grants where I am.

I have. I'm actually on a loan and scholarship program offered by the government. I've tried searching other scholarships on my uni, and even apply for the one's I could. But because of the number of students that apply, ain't that easy to get one...

Each time you start to focus on the debt, is it possible to nudge your thinking to the future opportunities instead?  Kind of reset the thinking to glass half full?  Being a student is stressful at the best of times.  Do you get any financial support from your parents at all?

I've always seen my future kind of blurry, so it's kind of difficult to see the glass half full. I guess it's my fight/flight response, as well as my experience with living with my dad: something's going to go wrong at some point. I've been trying not to fall in this kind of thinking, but the stress is still kind of there.
I get some financial support. The only things that I pay are the uni's fees, bus, medicaments and personal expenses. I also buy the groceries, but my mother insists on returning me the money.
My father would like to support me even more, and doesn't do it because they don't have the financial possibility to do it. Wich is why getting financial support from my parents is a tricky thing: I need it, but at the same time it makes me feel like a way to buy me? Not from my mom, but mostly from my dad.
I don't know if what I'm saying makes some sense...

[Methuen]

Tortuga, from my vantage point at a distance, you are doing as well as you can with the financial stuff!  You have done your homework, and put together a plan.  Great work on the loan and scholarship program!  

My father would like to support me even more, and doesn't do it because they don't have the financial possibility to do it. Wich is why getting financial support from my parents is a tricky thing: I need it, but at the same time it makes me feel like a way to buy me? Not from my mom, but mostly from my dad.

Does it feel a bit like you are walking a tightrope trying to balance your very real need for cash vs not wanting to take help from him?  You are as independent as you can be with arranging your loans and scholarships.  You pay for most things on your own.  Your mother insists on helping with groceries.  Any financial aid from your dad feels like a way to buy you.  There are always strings attached when money or gifts are involved with a BPD parent.  We get it here.  

What is the job outlook like in your chosen field?  The pay scale upon graduation? There is a world of opportunities in so many fields right now.  Where I live, they can't find people to fill all the positions there are. It's an employees market.  I guess where I am going with this, is that if the job outlook in your field looks good with decent pay in places you are willing to live, then the loans you are accruing will be manageable, and all this will give you financial independence and a bright future in your chosen field.  How far into your studies are you?  Are you excited about your chosen field?

There are just so many pressures for students.  Where I live, a big pressure is housing affordability for everyone, including students.  I get why living at home is necessary for you.  At least you have your mom, and she kinda gets it (since she's told your dad she wants a divorce). Sometimes the other parent enables the bad behavior of the BPD parent.  I hope you don't have to deal with that.

Are things going ok right now with avoiding your dad?

[Riv3rW0lf]

I've always seen my future kind of blurry, so it's kind of difficult to see the glass half full. I guess it's my fight/flight response, as well as my experience with living with my dad: something's going to go wrong at some point. I've been trying not to fall in this kind of thinking, but the stress is still kind of there.

I can relate to this, very much so. I remember this exact feeling from when I was in university. You are miles ahead of where I was back then though because you already know this IS your fight/flight state. I personally wasn't there yet. But I can definitely confirm that once you can finally step away from your BPD parent, things will become more net, less blurry.

I wish I could tell you the "impending doom" feeling will go away but I still have to battle with this one once in a while : this is the human condition, we are all faced with our vulnerability once in a while.

But you will regain some sense of control. You already are in control, but I understand it not feeling like it. You are doing great though. Hang in there, for this shall pass.

[Notwendy]

You are in this in between stage. I can relate to feeling I needed to be independent from my parents while also still needing financial support in college. The issue for me was my BPD mother's control of any money my father could give me ( oddly as he earned the money). This meant that support from him was according to her feelings. Sometimes he helped me but I didn't feel I could rely on it. With my parents, I didn't feel a secure sense of support- not just financially but with the relationship as well. I also worked, had loans, and did what I could to be less reliant on them, but full independence would be after I completed school.

I can understand the frustration. You want to be independent but to get to that point, you have to put yourself in a sort of dependency so that you can get through school. I agree with the others- you are doing the best you can at the moment and it's for a reason, a goal- and that is the independence you are seeking. Stay focused. You are motivated and this will help you get there.

[NarcRaider]

The best thing you can do is move out. Today. If you are truly feeling like this. Otherwise you are part of the problem, repeating the cycle, chucking fuel on your own body but blaming others when they set you on fire.
There are many homeless shelters out there particularly for young people that work/study - talk to people. Picture what your life would look like if the tyranny that surrounds you evaporated, went away. That’s the life you can achieve by moving out.

Judging by what you are saying - your mum is high in narcissism - keeping you codependent on their finances. This is typical though of someone with BPD who most likely had Narcissistic parent(s) themselves.
The BPD has a strong desire to play out their childhood roles with another narcissist , this time a romantic partner. Perhaps your dad has found another of his mother in your own mother? Pay close attention to what your mother says/does because she doesn’t sound anything close to someone righteous.

Leave, and leave now. As in now. You can still communicate with them after, but keep every bit of emotion out of any interactions. Widen your consciousness to everyone else’s behaviour, loosen the noose you have around your own neck that you are suffocating yourself with because of others’ poor behaviour.

You are, have been and possibly will always be treated like this (I think your dad has an opportunity to heal his own wounds and be a more whole person with therapy).

If you have the means, seek out a psychotherapist who specialises in transference therapy.

Good luck and keep fighting for your right to freedom.

[Tortuga50550]

Does it feel a bit like you are walking a tightrope trying to balance your very real need for cash vs not wanting to take help from him? 

Yes, that's for sure. If I spend my money, he will even complaint about it. Like I bought a new phone (because the old one is very broke) and complained that I shouldn't spend the money like that, that I should just ask them to buy it. It's kind of like he needs me to have the independence of a kid when it suits him.

What is the job outlook like in your chosen field?  The pay scale upon graduation? There is a world of opportunities in so many fields right now.  Where I live, they can't find people to fill all the positions there are. It's an employees market.  I guess where I am going with this, is that if the job outlook in your field looks good with decent pay in places you are willing to live, then the loans you are accruing will be manageable, and all this will give you financial independence and a bright future in your chosen field.  How far into your studies are you?  Are you excited about your chosen field?

I'm studying music, so it's kind of complicated. There are jobs, and at the same time there aren't that much, depending on what you're searching. I was thinking on studying something else to have a plan B, in case plan A doesn't work, but I'm still not sure. I'm nearly ending my bachelor degree, thinking of doing at least a master. I'm excited, but because of my tendencies of "seeing doom everywhere", I'm not? Though I know I would still think like this, no matter where I went to study. I do love the field where I'm in, but it's difficult sometimes to see the future bright.

[Methuen]

I totally get why you spent your own money to buy that phone, since there are less strings attached that way. 

Music is amazing!  Music performance?  Teaching? Therapy? Or...?

[Tortuga50550]

Music is amazing!  Music performance?  Teaching? Therapy? Or...?

Music composition. Though I have thought on doing musical teaching for little kids (I already did an stage and I quite liked it).