Back into No Contact - For Good

[jaded7]

"I don't say it with any judgment"
"I say this to help"

These opening statements have the same energy as
"I don't mean to be offensive but...."
" I'm being honest, I swear"

The rest of you have been very kind and helpful. But I think I've gotten all I needed to out of this, thank you all.

Crunch, I hope you don't go away. We've all been there, we have. There can be a desire to push way people who want to support you when they say things you don't want to hear. It's not unusual. What we 'need' is not necessarily what we want to hear. I know that for myself.

Nobody here is against you, we are for you. That might feel strange having been in the relationships that we've ALL been in. Hard to trust that. I know.

I have a friend who's been through 3 different marriages, pays out child support to 3 different women. Is involved in various custody court battles pretty much all the time. His most recent two wives were, in order, drug and alcohol abuser and diagnosed violent borderline. This third wife was physically assaultive and threw dishes at the dinner table with their 3 year old and bit his arm to the muscle, while also trying to break his hand by bashing it with her phone...among other things.

He is currently still married to the 3rd, but separated. They are working through the paper work, but haven't had a court date yet.

5 months ago he had quadruple bypass surgery, and I sat with him at 6am in the morning before the surgery, and for 9 hours in the cardiac ICU after. And for many hours in the following days.

During this time, he thought about his life, wondered at how he had gotten into this mess. Realized that he had issues seeking out women for comfort and needing their love. He understood, through his work with a therapist, that he had very serious issues from growing up in household where his mother was a drug addict and never emotionally there, very often passed out in bed. His father was never there, working and emotionally disengaged. After this near death experience he told me he was going to get healthy, stop chasing women, and regretted putting his children through all this trauma and would put his focus on them rather than women.

3 months ago he went on the dating apps, was staying up way to late messaging women, was over tired at work, and driving an hour each way to go on dates up to 5 times a week. He had his daughter stay at the nanny's house so he could get a hotel room in the city while on his dates. Within 2 weeks he had met someone he liked and within 8 days there were on a vacation together, with his 4-year old and her 4-year old. He stays at her house now every weekend, with his kid. She and her child come to stay with him when he's not at her house for the weekend.

I have reminded him about what he told me after the surgery and I've pointed out that bringing children into a new relationship so quickly is not good for them. He just doesn't want to hear any of this. They are now fighting, and he wants to have me for a sounding board for this new relationship. He wants me to meet her. I told him I do not want to meet her.

This is a good friend, and he doesn't want to hear anything potentially 'bad' about what's happening. I care about him, and I care especially about his children.

Don't run, allow your friends and supporters to help.

[once removed]

I know it's hard to hear. It was for me, too.

A lot of things are hard to hear, and hard to face , in recovery. If you want the keys to that emotional jail cell, it is worth it.

Calling you your own biggest bser was harsh. I didn't say it with any malice; i said it to break through. When we are stuck in recovery, repeating the same choices, we are all our own biggest bsers.

I also want you to know, when i say "no judgment", I'm not making a moral judgment about your relationship. The circumstances of it are something we have seen thousands of examples of on this board. It is what brought many here, or happened after that.

It doesn't have a good ending.

If youre looking for red flags, "the relationship is dead but finances and housing dictates having to wait for the right opportunity to separate." is probably not why they aren't separated; this is almost always the given reason. I'm not suggesting she's lying to you. I am suggesting that marriages in that position have a way of staying in them.

Then last night, she sent me a long message talking about how her whole situation is very screwed up right now and that she needs to take a step back and figure her stuff out. I explained to her that I understood the complication of the situation, it was more to me than just a fling and that it was something I was willing to wait for. I think she expected me to get angry and bail on the whole situation, because she seemed very pleasantly surprised by my response.

This suggests that she was trying to put the brakes on the relationship, and was caught off guard when you told her you would wait for her.

as it stands right now we are "waiting to hang out again"

I think that you are very likely to find yourself increasingly, and permanently in that position if you pursue this.

LASTLY, and let me say this real loud for everyone in the back.
I AM FULLY PREPARED TO WALK AWAY THE INSTANT ANY OF THIS FEELS THE LEAST BIT DISHONEST, CHAOTIC, FISHY OR LIKE A REBOUND.
...
I am treading VERY carefully. trust me buddy, If I didn't think this girl was worth the wait, I would walk.
...
learned a harsh harsh lesson over the last year about how it feels to be strung along, lied to, hot/cold, etc.
I sense none of that from this woman, and When our conversations started turning romantic, I immediately began looking for signs of smiliar behavior.
I sense none of the same indicators.

You have said all of these things before, word for word, many times. That is your indicator. It isn't about them.

You're chasing emotionally and physically unavailable woman, in nearly identical ways, and its resulting in really heartbreaking outcomes for you.

The lesson from our relationships is learning to make sometimes harder, but healthier choices.

That may be hard to do right now, or it may be hard to hear. If so, id ask you to set it aside for now, and consider it at a better time.

[SaltyDawg]

2. They have "been split" for some time, despite still being married and also still roomates. They have seperate bedrooms, and he is aware she is done.
I do believe that He doesn't want this course of action, but thats not my end of things to worry aout.

To me this is a red flag.  If her husband doesn't want this, and he starts to court her (especially if he aware of your romantic overtures towards his wife), her husband, may again try to work through whatever issue she had with him -- what is preventing her from going back to him since they live under the same roof, albeit in different bedrooms?  It sounds like she may be getting cold feet over this whole thing, a lot of second thoughts, of hurting her husband who lives under the same roof (different bedrooms), something that you have done with your exgf - she is just in a different stage.

The 2nd is the one Pook mentioned. 

Unfortunately, even though I don't want to be, I am in agreement with Once Removed with his assessment of the situation.  I would urge you to bring up his concerns, and my statement to your own therapist, and get her take on it, since she is the licensed therapist.  From what you have described of your interactions with your own therapist, she seems to be spot on most of the time.

Your potential romantic interest has 'tapped the brakes' - you need to respect this, even though it is difficult.  Perhaps wait a little while longer, a week, perhaps two.  Use your therapist as a sounding board (I do) from the feedback you have gotten here.  Make a choice, reflect on it for a few days to a week, and then go with that choice on what you want to do.

[OKrunch]

Ive ready all of your replies. thank you. I am just taking some time to digest and settle into new rythms,
Ill check in soon

[Pook075]

Ive ready all of your replies. thank you. I am just taking some time to digest and settle into new rythms,
Ill check in soon

Hey buddy, I hope you're hanging in there and doing well.  Keep us updated and let us know if there's anything we can do to help.  We're all Team-OKrunch here!

[OKrunch]

Let me firmly preface this by saying, I have not reached out and have had social media blocked since October 2nd.

Yesterday I got a text from a random number,
And it was allegedly Exs new boyfriend.
Told me to keep my distance and specifically proclaimed
"Steer clear of my girls, my house, my dogs"
And threatened to get a restraining order if I didn't.
I replied very briefly simply saying "I haven't, and have no intention on doing so, ever. I'm blocking this number, if I hear from you again I'll reach out to proper authorities"

Again, I have not reached out in some time, and over a month ago I swore off ever doing so again, and I meant it.

I say allegedly at the beginning there because the list of things I put in quotations are verbatim things I've told her I fear losing, in the same words and everything.
So either she messaged me posing as him, or specifically coached him in writing the message.
Both of which are very messed up.

Apparently the need for triangulation has begun, and I didn't do a damn thing here.

I'm floored right now.

[Goosey]

Way up this thread someone posts “the clutches”.
  Obviously a boxing term.
   Very very accurate.
    No contact is good.
     

[once removed]

I say allegedly at the beginning there because the list of things I put in quotations are verbatim things I've told her I fear losing, in the same words and everything.
So either she messaged me posing as him
...

Is it possible that he saw messages between the two of you, and got jealous? The two of you were in contact relatively recently, and that would have taken place around the time they were meeting, right? Maybe he was going through her phone and saw messages?

Either way, it sounds like he's trying to be a tough guy; good move to block, no sense in giving him the time of day.

[OKrunch]

Is it possible that he saw messages between the two of you, and got jealous? The two of you were in contact relatively recently, and that would have taken place around the time they were meeting, right? Maybe he was going through her phone and saw messages?

Either way, it sounds like he's trying to be a tough guy; good move to block, no sense in giving him the time of day.

Definitely possible, but that would assume she hadn't deleted threads a month and a half ago, that contact on Oct 2nd is when she told me she was with someone. So I doubt it.
My guess, and I am not wasting time trying to figure this out because its profitless, is that this is part of her process to establish control in that relationship. By seeming like a victim and making mr new guy feel needed. I had similar experiences, she talked about her ex a lot throughout our entire relationship, but he is her daughters dad so it was a common thing.
However it really feels like the establishment of jealousy-making and triangulation, which I know she does oh so well.

Every phone number, social media and email are blocked.
I am so far past dealing with any of this BS.

[OKrunch]

And yet she continues to message my sister in law.

Like, if you are happy in a new relationship, leave me and my family alone.

What's the point in trying to keep her tendrils in my world?

Piss off.

[SaltyDawg]

OKrunch,

Ask your SIL not to share that information with you if your SIL wants to maintain a relationship with her as it is triggering for you. 

If your SIL does not want to maintain a relationship with her, you might want to share with your SIL that you have blocked her everywhere, and your SIL might want to do the same.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[OKrunch]

Still a lot of intrusive BS rolling around my head.
More about general BPD behaviors than anything.
The part of my mind that "Had to understand a thing" is becoming quite annoying.
Here are some of the things that have been stuck in my head.

Is the fact that i yet again set a boundary going to cause any backlash, god forbid they arent the ones setting the rules.

Will having told her "I don't care about any of those things, do not contact me again or I will take necessary steps" inflame that resistance to boundaries and control, and cause issues down the road?

Does her use of triangulation already with the new fella mean that I am not yet removed from her crosshairs? Am I still the "Favorite Person, Painted Black"?

How prevalent is jealousy, even after several discards? I legit worry about being able to be in a new relationship undisturbed.

She seems to be following her seasonal pattern - Fall "Dumped" me again (even though we werent dating) and shacked up with a new dude to pay the winter bills.
How firmly do you feel BPD's in general adhere to subconscious patterns like this?
Not that i should care, but I fully expect this situation to fall apart around next fall like every other one has.



I think at the end of the day, I am still searching for evidence that I meant something to her. Even though i know how fake that is to begin with with her, its one of those lingering ego hurdles.

[Pook075]

Is the fact that i yet again set a boundary going to cause any backlash, god forbid they arent the ones setting the rules.

If you're no contact, then it can't have any backlash.

Will having told her "I don't care about any of those things, do not contact me again or I will take necessary steps" inflame that resistance to boundaries and control, and cause issues down the road?

I'm not sure since the boyfriend also told you that.  It sounds like she's just stirring the pot.  This is not BK, she doesn't get to have it her way 100% of the time.

Does her use of triangulation already with the new fella mean that I am not yet removed from her crosshairs? Am I still the "Favorite Person, Painted Black"?

You're not the currently the favorite person and you'll always be somewhat in the crosshairs (when her relationships fail).  The only way to escape the pattern is to stop playing the game.

How prevalent is jealousy, even after several discards? I legit worry about being able to be in a new relationship undisturbed.

Who cares, that's her problem...not yours.

How firmly do you feel BPD's in general adhere to subconscious patterns like this?

Quick story.  My BPD daughter had a close relative take their own life in mid-November over a decade ago.  My mom's birthday (her all-time favorite person) is late October; she passed almost 5 years ago.  And between these two dates, my kid is always a wreck with super high emotion.  She'll always be that way because she grieves these two life-changing events every year.

There's usually a deeper pattern that's unseen by most of us that serves as a catalyst, that knocks them off their normal baseline.  For my ex wife and my kid, it brings feelings of guilt, shame, dread, and hurt like these events just happened yesterday.

For example, that's how my wife was able to say, "You don't care about me- you go out after work to shoot pool and you don't even call me."  That happened 23 years ago over a 3-month period, maybe once or twice a week.  But somehow it's still fresh and it still hurts her, even though we've had a conversation about it hundreds of times.  And when I'd bring up the opposite, when I was home alone and she was out with friends and family without a phone call...well, that was different and I shouldn't be upset about that.

It's disordered thinking brother, and the only way to get rid of it is to actually let it go.  That goes for you and for her.  Maybe you never learn her "why", what sets her off in the Fall, but you have to accept that it's disordered thinking and it's like venom.  That is not your problem anymore and you have to stop focusing your energy towards it.

I hope that helps a little bit.

[OKrunch]

I'm not sure since the boyfriend also told you that.  It sounds like she's just stirring the pot.  This is not BK, she doesn't get to have it her way 100% of the time.
 

HAHAHA. Ok this was worth the post alone. Well needed chuckle, thank you.

[SinisterComplex]

Locked and Split due to post limit. New Thread here...https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357216.0