Update/Need input on Boundaries

[Mommydoc]

My relationship with my sister has been extremely strained over the last several months, resulting in me going NC with her (eventually blocking her on my cell phone).  I told her I preferred to communicate via email, stopped answering her texts, and arranged for health care updates to be provided by my mothers hospice team, face times with my mom to be done by the facility director, social worker and chaplain and to manage trust decisions via email.   I never told her I blocked her cell number, and despite 4 months of not responding by text, she is apparently continuing to text me.   She has  been dysregulated and seemingly in a continuous extinction burst, as I hear accounts of her rants and unfounded attacks on the Facility Director, the Trust Financial Advisor, and Social worker.  All of whom are trying to support her.

No contact, or very very low contact has been great for me.   I recently retired and am able to spend more time with my mother, whose  health status is continuing to decline.   I can focus on her and her needs and not get sucked into my sisters demands, accusations and rants. I realize in retrospect that having the hospice nurse give the health updates makes it easier for me and my sister, as they are objective and factual.  When I was updating my sister,  she had unusual responses to things, and “ shot the messenger” (me) when she couldn’t cope with any set back.   It kept me engaged with her(which she likes), but it was negative and stressful for me.

I continue to struggle with maintaining boundaries with her. The continued narrative is that I am manipulating everyone to treat her with disrespect, that I am intensely angry at her ( a projection) and that she has done everything I have asked  and that  I remain uncooperative and disrespectful .   She constantly talks about being an equal and being treated as less than and having information withheld from her.   None of it is true.  She can receive the same document or information 3 times and she will claim she never received it.  In terms of boundaries, first it was getting her to acknowledge and respect my role as HC POA.   She continues to represent herself as “50% decision maker” to new members of the health care or assisted living team, creating confusion for them.   As HC POA, I have maintained that it is my decision where my mother receives care.  My sister continues to challenge that, wants to move my mother out of her assisted living ( which my mom loves and in the past when she could communicate was  one of the most important things to her. ) On my sisters last visit, a month ago, she told the caregivers, that  she planned to move my mom out, because she had lost weight.   I was out of town and told them it wouldn’t happen, but if she was taking any actions to let me know I would engage my attorney.   Nothing happened.   I had a nice 3-4 week period of no contact, which was like heaven!   It was very fortunate, as I was going through a major transition, retiring as a physician executive after a 40 year career in medicine.   All good things must come to an end, as my sister started emailing again this morning, asking me to respond to her “urgent time sensitive” texts, telling me that sisters talk and text, only strangers email.  I reset the boundary and let her know that talking/ texting don’t work for me right now and my preference is email communication and that I would respond to her time sensitive requests if she emailed them to me.  I get the impression they have to do with my mothers upcoming bday and a tenant lease renewal.   She responded she was too busy to resend as an email ( even though she sent me 5 emails today!) and to read the texts or call  her. I responded  I understood she was busy and would wait until she had time to email.   A number of continued emails ( which I have not responded to) ensued with accusations (are you blind cc’ing your lawyer/husband), assumed motives, how destructive I am, how she has done everything I have asked, and I am refusing to work with her.   In her last message, she questioned my statement that email communication is the best path forward to rebuilding, and asked me to explain.   She said “ It feels like the opposite of rebuilding.  Could you explain so I can understand how to rebuild with you?” Though I want to believe she is genuinely curious, I hesitate to respond, as it feels like JADE would come into play.  At face value, that seems like a genuine and reasonable question.   Trying to justify, defend or explain email only communication isn’t likely to work.   

I am trying desperately to stay out of the triangle, but even with LC/VLC, I remain her persecutor and she the victim.   It is much easier for me to be VLC and that is where intuitively I believe we need to be for now.   The hospice director and social worker, who have frequent regular contact, advised against a facilitated family meeting, as they feel she is highly agitated and no good will come of it.   My therapist also feels the VLC boundary is right for the moment.  If/when my mom declines, we all agree it makes sense for there to be increased contact.   

Any suggestions on how to deal with the current situation?  Am I being stubborn/selfish  or reasonable and appropriate for the situation? Should I try to explain the need for positive email interactions before resuming text/phone? Please challenge my thinking, as I want to assure no blind spots.  Thank you.   

[kells76]

Good to hear from you again, Mommydoc! Thanks for the update -- glad NC/VLC has been generally positive for you.

I realize in retrospect that having the hospice nurse give the health updates makes it easier for me and my sister, as they are objective and factual.  When I was updating my sister,  she had unusual responses to things

Understatement of the year, huh 

Weird question, does your sister have a smartphone? I ask because I assumed I was the last person on earth with a flip phone that had no email access. If it's urgent, she literally has one device in her had that can do either text... or email! Email notifications are "a thing" from what I've heard, so it's not like "I only know if I get a text right away, not an email". Anyway, I don't think I've heard you mention your sister making the case that "we should text because I only have email from 9-5 at work". So it's not an access/tech issue.

If she has time to text you that she's too busy to respond in an email... and she has time to email you to reply to to an urgent text... she has time to email.

Any suggestions on how to deal with the current situation?  Am I being stubborn/selfish  or reasonable and appropriate for the situation? Should I try to explain the need for positive email interactions before resuming text/phone? Please challenge my thinking, as I want to assure no blind spots.  Thank you.   

I think if I were in your shoes, I might tweak my boundary statements a little bit, and instead of telling her that email is a preference or what works best now, I might phrase it as "I respond to emails" or "I am able to communicate only by emails" or some other "I am able to..." statement. Makes the target a little smaller, that minimizes any opening to argue about preferences ("your preference is wrong, what about doing my preference") or "okay, email works now, but when can we text later".

You have normal boundaries for the situation.

I think you've already tried to explain why you're doing email, and interestingly, she kind of "outs" herself here:

Could you explain so I can understand how to rebuild with you?

Notice that she isn't really asking you to explain... she's giving you an impossible task. No explanation you offer will be "understandable" to her, and therefore, it's a setup -- you can once again be "the bad guy" for not explaining it well enough, when really, the issue is her own blind spot about understanding, not yours.

Not seeing a lot in your approach to boundaries to challenge, honestly -- maybe the challenge is more in having the endurance for the FOG coming from her, and finding ways to roll past it without giving it more time and energy than it merits.

...

I'm wondering if her approach of saying “It feels like the opposite of rebuilding.  Could you explain so I can understand how to rebuild with you?” is new? Is that part of why you're questioning yourself, when in the past in other situations with her, you wouldn't have questioned yourself as much?

Or is it a new tactic from her, to email about texts and to text about emails? Sorry, she's done so many wacky things that I can't remember.

[livednlearned]

Mommydoc, you don't have to respond.

You just don't.

It's a category 5 hurricane and the sandbags are in place and the waters are rising. A bit got through.

A bit of water always gets through.

she questioned my statement that email communication is the best path forward to rebuilding, and asked me to explain.   She said “ It feels like the opposite of rebuilding.  Could you explain so I can understand how to rebuild with you?”

This is a small spot in your row of sandbags where instead of 8 stacked one on top of another there was 7. Water got through.

I would guess that she isn't curious about what you mean, she's running through a list of possible things she can say that will test the sandbags. A ha! This one is lower than the rest. In terms of BIFF, the target was just big enough.

Do you feel comfortable not responding?

It doesn't seem like there is any reason to believe her behaviors will be different, only that a door will open for her to punish you for the boundaries she couldn't bypass.

And it's ok to create a safe haven for yourself. Protect yourself now as you enter this new phase, the anticipatory grief of losing your mom. There will be plenty of drama when your mom passes and you'll need your strength when your sister truly dysregulates.

My parents are both still alive and I know I won't be able to grieve their deaths. uBPD brother was so dysregulated when my grandparents died that my first thought was what he would do. He was so dysregulated when my beloved grandmother died, the one he was least connected to, that our schedules were communicated by my father so that we would not be in the hospital or the house at the same time.

I try to find compassion but I think that well is running dry. There are people with personality disorders who seek help and get treatment and work hard to piece their lives together. Not my sibling and not yours.

What you're asking doesn't seem selfish to me but if that's how you feel, then let yourself be selfish.

 

[Mommydoc]

Thank you both.   I found myself laughing several times at your responses, which is a really good place to be. 

a category 5 hurricane and the sandbags are in place and the waters are rising. A bit got through.

Perfect, given that we grew up on the gulf coast and sandbags and evacuations were a part of my childhood.   The category 5 hurricane is a good analogy to what will happen when my mom passes.  My sisters grief process with my father was extremely unhealthy, and it was during that time my therapists suggested she might have BPD.  I was so different at the time, walking on eggshells, constantly doing contortions to try to make her feel better, in a constant FOG and continually JADEing.   I have come a long way. She has not, but I am prepared.   

Kells76, thank you for making the point about email versus text. She had time to send me 6 emails today, but didn't have time to paste her urgent text into an email.  For her, it is about me not responding by text which is what a sister should do.   She wants the facebook sister relationship.  For me, there is a huge difference between email and text, (with her at least). I can check my email once a day and respond within a day or so, and feel fine.   With text, my sister will go back and forth 10 times in an hour and write texts that are mini novellas.  When I was working, it was extremely disruptive and emotionally intrusive when it happened.  I appreciate this point a lot:

Notice that she isn't really asking you to explain... she's giving you an impossible task. No explanation you offer will be "understandable" to her, and therefore, it's a setup -- you can once again be "the bad guy" for not explaining it well enough, when really, the issue is her own blind spot about understanding, not yours.

Not seeing a lot in your approach to boundaries to challenge, honestly -- maybe the challenge is more in having the endurance for the FOG coming from her, and finding ways to roll past it without giving it more time and energy than it merits.

I think intuitively I knew this but you articulated it so much better!

I like the tweak to the boundary and will put it in the back pocket.   So far, she hasn’t sent the additional email information, so no further response at this point.   I have gotten good at only responding to reasonable requests. 

Lastly, the insight about enduring the FOG is a good one.  My therapist feels I have put a lot of distance between us, such that I can be kind to her if/when I need to be, while keeping my self protected.  I have a lot of good in my life  to focus on, so I plan to do that. 

Thank you for the support. 

[zachira]

Perhaps the most painful part of wondering about how to respond to your sister is you are normally a very communicative open honest person. You know you can't treat your sister in the ways you would a healthy person, yet it feels very uncomfortable as this is not how you like to treat people and if it were possible you would have liked to have a mutually respectful loving relationship with your sister. With my disordered family members, giving explanations about what I am doing is an open invitation to escalate their dysfunctional behaviors. 

[Mommydoc]

Zachira, you totally get me!  Thank you.  Your advice gives me fortitude to just wait for the “ actual issue” that is likely just a parade to get me to engage. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Mommydoc !

The way I see it, there is no way to win this. If you "give up" the boundary and find an alternate way like, for example, sending her texts directly to a SPAM folder or turning off the notifications from her, then she will get the text messages, but will likely blame you for not answering fast enough.

It's not about the text message, it's about having you at her disposal whenever she feels like dumping her emotional garbage on you...

You deserve better, you deserve to take care of yourself, you deserve to protect yourself without feeling guilt, and you deserve to have peace of mind while caring for your mother in her final days. I am joining the others : you are a wonderful daughter, you have tried your absolute best with your sister, and you have a right to hold the boundaries that make you feel safe and sane.

 

[GaGrl]

No response is needed. Your sister is in the midst of an extended extinction burst. Any softening of a boundary at this point will damage the boundary, and you're back to square one.

(And I'm loving the Cat 5 hurricane analogy! I grew up in and have retired in Coastal Alabama, and we've just this week been checking our "Hurricane Kit." Perhaps you can maintain a sense of humor by giving your sister's bombardments a hurricane name? The last Cat 5 I dealt with was Katrina.)

[NarcsEverywhere]

Although the situation is sensitive, and you're managing it with a lot of patience, I think that can sabotage you, as she's going to want to get away with as much murder as possible. If it were me, I'd call her out for lying at the facility, and explain why that damages your Mom's care, and how it's not okay. I'd explain how her harassment, and impulsive behavior is what causes you to have the e-mail boundary, and because you're busy with your Mom. I'd explain how lying about her not having access to the records causes is wasting your precious time, that you're using to care for your mother.

Even though I had unreasonable boundaries in the past with my Dad, calling our abusive behavior (when it's a good time for me), setting clear expectations (that are completely reasonable), tends to cause them to fall into line. Because the lack of empathy causes them to not see what they are doing that is wrong, so if they have the clear rule, then they can follow it (like you are doing with e-mail). Personally, I'd set more boundaries, and call it out more. If you want to show empathy, I'd show it on the end of knowing she's having a hard time, but that you can't put up with just anything.

Maybe I am guiding your hand too much here, but I am just saying, if you don't call people out, they rarely change. But there is normally a push back for the change, that you might have to deal with. Melody Beattie said something along the lines of "When you push people to change by being a better person or by standing up for yourself more, there is normally a push back, just let the dust settle, by not responding, and they'll quit playing their games", my wording/interpretation is a bit off, because I am tired.

[Methuen]

It sounds to me like she wants a fight.  I recognize this "wanting a fight".  

Any engagement and her claws will come out in attack, which will make her feel better and you worse.

I'm with most of the others here. I would hold steady in your lane, even though it doesn't feel right (since you are a caring helpful person).  We struggle with the internal conflict of clashing values: the value to be caring and helpful to all people, and the value to keep ourselves safe.  When two values we hold so dear clash, it's a very uncomfortable feeling, and so we question ourselves.  

They teach us the mantra "safety first" from primary school or even earlier.  

I'm using imagery right now.  Picture your home and life being inside a very large enclosure the size of your community and all the things you do.  The boundary of the enclosure is an 8 or 10' fence with barb wire at the top.  Outside the fence is a hungry lion or grizzly bear or your sister circling around the enclosure.  In this case,  your boundary enclosure is your email, and, in your situation this is a very logical boundary. She is using emotion to make you feel guilty with all those texts.  And because you value being caring and helping, the pull to break the boundary is strong.  But do you really want to offer yourself up to the grizzly bear or lion circling the enclosure?  Now that is not logical at all.

I'm struggling with this now too but in a different context.  My lion is my mother.  Since she recently had a "good" appointment with the geriatrician (meaning she "performed" so well for him) , she has been in a deep tailspin starting with calling us to take her to emergency the very next evening.  That was a week ++ ago.  My H is holding hard boundaries as she has become desperate for attention and driving him crazy (since he took over most of the official caregiving duties such as grocery shopping et al).  We are going away for almost a week starting this Friday.  Do I go visit her tomorrow before we go away?  When I told my H I was thinking of this he said "don't do it.  She will tell you to take her to emerg and then what will you do?"  He saw her today and she is completely disregulated and claims she is in pain and talking about dying.  But a week ago with the geriatrician she performed amazingly.  Our emerg waits are 4-10 hours and she is 87.  I have plenty to do tomorrow before we go on our trip.  When we took her a week ago because she was saying she was blind after a mac degeneration shot, she waited 2 hours and then said she wanted to go home without seeing a doc because she couldn't sit there all night waiting.  Miraculously, her sight came back.  So, as her daughter and caring person who knows she is suffering emotionally, do I let her sit with all this herself, or do I go visit her before I leave on my trip?  

We are each facing a dilemma. Both options have a negative outcome.

I get your internal struggle, but it is easier for me to see your situation more clearly than my own because I have no emotional involvement in your situation.  

Let the lion find other food in the vicinity, or move to new territory.  My lion is a very vulnerable old lion, who still has big teeth and is hungry and very able to attack. Why do I still want to go see her?

I get it.  She’s still your sister and you would love to be able to work with her.  That would be amazing.  But that’s not your reality.
  

[Notwendy]

I think you are doing great. I join you and Methuen in the stress over these situations. And the need to take care of ourselves. Unless we have boundaries, we would get pulled into the cycle of chaos and their emotional needs. I am also in it at the moment.

BPD mother mother moved into assisted living in April and since then, has gone back and forth between that and a skilled nursing facility due to one "crisis" or another. We had hoped that the additional support from assisted living would allow her to conserve her finances better. Nope. No sooner than the house money was deposited, she's right back to her spending. 

To her, the attention she gets in either place from the staff is not enough. She complains about the nursing care, even though when I'm sitting right there I can see that they are doing a good job with her. In the nursing facility, she pushes the call button ever 10 seconds over things like coming to take her meal tray away and if they don't come immediately, she complains. She claims nobody is doing anything for her, yet, when she's there, her health situation improves.

The staff there is on to her. I think they are used to either difficult family members and difficult patients. Mommydoc- you don't need to protect the staff at your mother's facility from your sister's behavior. I understand you'd feel an empathetic alliance with them, but I bet they have seen this before. They also don't have the emotional tie with your sister and can have boundaries with her more easily than you can.

With my mother, the staff is very good at keeping me posted. My mother's family sometimes asks me more detailed questions about what is going on as I am the one the facility updates but I don't get that involved in questioning them. I know they are doing the best job that they can with the situation and feel it's best to let them do it. So even though her extended family does not have BPD, I am also the one they ask questions to and know they are anxious as well. So here are two boundaries- I don't over question the staff- they can do their job and as long as I don't suspect differently there's no reason to ask more questions. And with her family- I am happy to speak to them, and value their support, but I may not know all the answers to their questions, and so, "I don't know" is the best I can do sometimes. The people pleasing part of me would like to know all the answers, but I don't know them. Sometimes I also hear about how my mother is behaving with the staff- like you hear about your sister.

So here are some ideas for boundaries-

The staff at your mother's facility are experienced with this kind of thing. These are stressful times for families. People with and without disorders are stressed. They have likely had experiences with people like your sister. They can manage her. You aren't responsible for her behavior or managing how she interacts with staff.

Both you and your sister are dealing with a difficult situation. You are not responsible for your sister's feelings. She's managing her feelings in the way she usually does- projecting on other people, looking to you to soothe her. It's not your job to do this, even if you feel emotionally pulled to do it.

I don't think your NC boundary with your sister is wrong. I will reinforce your right to do this. You are not her emotional caretaker. Your role is to be supportive to your mother. You also need to take care of yourself. Your sister's escalating behavior is how she copes with her own feelings. That's not your job to solve. The staff at your mother's facility knows how to deal with family members like her- and they can do that.

Your boundaries are good ones. Stay strong.










 

[Notwendy]

It sounds to me like she wants a fight.  I recognize this "wanting a fight".  

Any engagement and her claws will come out in attack, which will make her feel better and you worse.

So, as her daughter and caring person who knows she is suffering emotionally, do I let her sit with all this herself, or do I go visit her before I leave on my trip?  

We are each facing a dilemma. Both options have a negative outcome

Methuen, I would not go visit her the day before you leave. We have noticed that when we visit BPD mother, the day we leave is when her behavior escalates. She becomes verbally abusive. I think it's apparent that this is an emotional situation for families. I love it when my kids visit, but understand they have to also leave to go back to- their routines, to their jobs. Whatever feelings I have on that day are not their responsibility.

PwBPD cope with their feelings with their BPD behaviors. It would make sense that your mother might want attention when you visit, not want you to leave for vacation. That's scary for her. So her feelings may show up as a crisis. With my BPD mother, she becomes verbally abusive. This is hard to hear after spending time doing things for her, which is the purpose of the visit and then hearing how much you hurt her or finding something you did that she's upset about. I don't want to hear that. So the last time I visited, I told her on the day before I left that I couldn't speak to her while I was packing and driving and that I would call her when I got home. She did try to call while I was driving and I didn't answer. I called after I got home.

You might want to try this- tell your mother you are busy packing for your trip and can't speak to her while doing this- and that you will call her to let her know you arrived at your destination.

[Mommydoc]

This is so helpful. It all comes down to not just setting boundaries, but believing in our boundaries enough to continually reinforce them.

 In the past, I had no problem setting boundaries at work or in my immediate family, only with my sister. I realize now that she always challenged my boundaries and because my parents wanted harmony, they always reinforced me “being a good big sister”. I know they loved her, but also struggled with her too. Relying more heavily on me as they aged, made me their golden child and increased her resentment, but I maintained the role of people/parent pleasing, good big sister and tried to always take the high road, unfortunately not setting boundaries with her. I am not sure if BPD worsens with age but I feel like my sisters BPD behaviors definitely have worsened as she hit her fifties 9 or am I more aware ?) What has changed is me.. I am so much better at setting boundaries with her and know how important they are. Fortunately, at some point, both my parents finally acknowledged the dysfunctional dynamics and began to give me permission to protect myself with her. It has taken a lot of therapy to unlearn the kind big sister role. And as Methuen says, it constantly poses an internal conflict regarding my values around kindness.

Brene Brown said “ Daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves, even when we risk disappointing others. ”  She also talks about the impact of not setting boundaries being resentment. I experienced anger and resentment in the past, and now I recognize that was because I was failing to set boundaries with my sister. My issue not hers.  Now that I have begun to set boundaries with my sister, her BPD seems to flare every time I set or reinforce a boundary. It’s the BPD dance we must co-exist in and I accept it. Hopefully she can get her emotions worked out somewhere else.

Methuen, I love your imagery and that you are able to apply it  to both of our circumstances. I would not visit your mom the day before you leave. You and your husband both know how it will play out, just like we all know how it will play out with my sister. It’s no longer about setting a boundary, it’s about maintaining it, keeping barb wire fence / our boundary reinforced. Enjoy your trip! You deserve it.

NarcsEverywhere, I appreciate the advice, and in my life outside my sister wBPD, I  err on the side of transparency, calling things as I see them, sharing the impact of people’s actions when appropriate. I believe that feedback if given/received with an intention to help, is a gift. Been there, done that with my sister. It doesn’t work with her. She  can’t receive it, and she ends up perseverating on her “defense” for literally years. Some people love feedback, take it, process it and act on it. Others, both with or without BPD don’t. This is where clear boundaries are more effective. One of the things I love about this forum, is the incredible positive intent with which everyone gives and receives feedback.

NotWendy, I am glad your mom is in assisted living. I guess it was never going to be easy with your mom, but it does sound like the staff, get her,  manage her, and provide a layer of safety for you and her. I feel the same way. The hospice team, the facility staff all “get”  my sister. They also get me. They adore my mom. It adds up to them being very willing to be the “Fence” and manage her. It takes patience, and when there is someone new  (which just happened), she has to reveal herself to them. I can’t just say “My sister has BPD, please protect me”. She knows she is dependent on them for updates and communication so she behaves herself 80% of the time. So it works.

So, I stopped responding to the emails wanting me to read my texts, and waited to see if she would send an email about the urgent issues. She didn’t! So I reached out to the property manager, who replied to both of us this morning and provided an update, related to a lease renewal. We both agreed to it on email. My sister then sent 3 separate email replies (to my one) to the property manager summarizing what we agreed to ( what the PM suggested in first place). I guess she has to assert she is in charge here. So, the first urgent issue is revealed and resolved. Second issue is my mom’s bday in 3 weeks. I suspect my sister wants to come and have a party for her, like last year. That is fine, but I am not going to be here on my mom’s bday. I know being with her daily is enough and the actual day no longer has meaning for her. My sister will want to use the bday as an opportunity for the “three of us to be together on this earth one last time”. Anyway, that is the current brewing hurricane.

The more I think about the hurricane analogy the more I love it. We are actually heading into hurricane season. Sometimes a hurricane starts brewing, looks ominous, and burns itself out before hitting ground; others don’t seem that bad and suddenly gain a lot of force just prior to landfall. You can prepare, but you can’t really prevent or control them. When they are really bad the best you can hope for is limited damage, and avoiding loss of life. Evacuating is very effective. There are so many lessons there that apply to family members with BPD, radical acceptance, boundaries, preparing but not controlling and removing yourself from the situation when it gets intense. Thanks all!

[zachira]

Methuen,
I can imagine how taxing the trips to the emergency room with your mother are. It seems she has figured out how to get your attention for hours on end by demanding to be taken to the emergency room when there is no real medical emergency. My aunt with BPD did this to her daughter who was a senior citizen in poor health with a full time job. On the Fourth of July at a party in which my aunt apparently was not getting enough attention from other people there, my aunt claimed to be having medical problems. She was taken to the hospital by ambulance and nothing was found to be wrong with her. If you call an ambulance when your mother says she needs to go the emergency room, would that mean you could possibly stay home or wherever you are while maintaining contact with the emergency room providers by phone? Glad you will be going out of town and be taking a well deserved vacation.

I feel sad for everyone on PSI for all they put up with their disordered family members. It feels terrible to have to treat our family members in the ways that we do so we can stay safe yet it is what we have to do to keep our sanity and protect our wellbeing.