codependent rage

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I'm angry at myself.

uBPD SD26 is here. She came alone because SS23 had life-threatening brain surgery (he's stabilized).

SD26 is staying in our home.

Her behaviors are better and I'm still so triggered.

My nervous system seems it will not tolerate anything she does. This includes breathing and eating.

I find myself feeling surges of aggression over petty things and then I'm mad at myself for being this way. What is happening.

Some of the things that bother me are so superficial I don't even want to share them here. They make me feel like a terrible person just admitting them to myself.

One example: We go on a strenuous hike in the mountains and I catch on to a light-hearted narrative that SD26 and H believe I will struggle on the hike. Except the opposite happens. We stop so often for SD26 to catch her breath that it adds 2 hours to our hike and S21 was at home worried about how late we were (no cell service). I enjoyed that SD26 struggled. It's my own passive aggression and I am so angry to feel this way.

I don't see people write about this often and I'm wondering where this is all coming from. Is this partly what codependent thinking is covering up?

My irritation seems irrational.

On our way down I tell H I'm going to pull off the trail to pee, and I'm heading into the bushes and hear twigs snapping and turn around and SD26 is right there, following me. I could've punched her I felt so furious. What is wrong with me.

I tell her go ahead, I'll find another spot. My energy is anger. I walk past H and he's like, wth LnL, and now we are both wondering what is wrong with me. It's not hormonal.

Nothing overtly bad is happening, it's me feeling petty and acting (mostly internally) like a child.  

Surely these emotions cannot all be about BPD behaviors because the extreme neediness/clinging, the lack of boundaries -- she is not as bad and H is better. My non-verbal boundaries are good. She lives 3000 miles away. Things are handled.

Brene Brown said “ Daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves, even when we risk disappointing others. ”  She also talks about the impact of not setting boundaries being resentment.

Tomorrow H goes back to work and I am driving SD26 to the airport. I did not dare to set a boundary, I did not have the courage to love myself, I did not risk disappointing H.

It's too late, I surrendered. I gave up without even really trying to say no.

Airport is 2 hours away on a good day and a 4 hour roundtrip total. Tomorrow it will be rush hour traffic on a long weekend and the round trip will be close to 6 hours with just me and SD26 in the car.

It isn't even that I don't want to disappoint H, it's that I can't justify my own needs and wants to myself. And like Mommydoc's quote says, the impact of not having boundaries is resentment.

But when is it being petty and mean and when is it setting boundaries?

It really comes down to: I cannot stand SD26.

Someone on the boards once asked me that: do you even like her. And I tap-danced around the answer with "liking someone with BPD is complicated" but the truth is no.  

This used to be a me/H issue but this trip makes me think it's a me issue, where I am harboring a killer grudge over things that are not even about SD26, she is simply the target. Not that she doesn't have these aggravating qualities, more that my emotions are way out of balance with what is happening because I am carrying around something I really, really wish I could set down.

I found this:

Anger and rage are common emotions in the lives of codependents and may be seen as a part of the drama triangle. However, although many observers of codependent behavior focus on self-sacrifice and victimization, codependents may also be tremendously angry when they believe their power is being threatened. This is deep-seated rage that has most likely been repressed since infancy or adolescence. Children might be reluctant to display emotion for a variety of reasons. One possibility is that they were instructed (or commanded) not to, or feared the consequences of doing so.

I don't know what power is being threatened. I don't know what to do with this anger ... acknowledge it? Express it? (horrifying). If it's my anger from codependent FOO patterns that's bothering me, then what? Accept it and move on, like a phantom trace of FOO? What is lost if it is never addressed?

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone.

If you have experienced this, what came next for you?

[livednlearned]

I'm angry at myself.

uBPD SD26 is here. She came alone because SS23 had life-threatening brain surgery (he's stabilized).

SD26 is staying in our home.

Her behaviors are better and I'm still so triggered.

My nervous system seems it will not tolerate anything she does. This includes breathing and eating.

I find myself feeling surges of aggression over petty things and then I'm mad at myself for being this way. What is happening.

Some of the things that bother me are so superficial I don't even want to share them here. They make me feel like a terrible person just admitting them to myself.

One example: We go on a strenuous hike in the mountains and I catch on to a light-hearted narrative that SD26 and H believe I will struggle on the hike. Except the opposite happens. We stop so often for SD26 to catch her breath that it adds 2 hours to our hike and S21 was at home worried about how late we were (no cell service). I enjoyed that SD26 struggled. It's my own passive aggression and I am so angry to feel this way.

I don't see people write about this often and I'm wondering where this is all coming from. Is this partly what codependent thinking is covering up?

My irritation seems irrational.

On our way down I tell H I'm going to pull off the trail to pee, and I'm heading into the bushes and hear twigs snapping and turn around and SD26 is right there, following me. I could've punched her I felt so furious. What is wrong with me.

I tell her go ahead, I'll find another spot. My energy is anger. I walk past H and he's like, wth LnL, and now we are both wondering what is wrong with me. It's not hormonal.

Nothing overtly bad is happening, it's me feeling petty and acting (mostly internally) like a child.  

Surely these emotions cannot all be about BPD behaviors because the extreme neediness/clinging, the lack of boundaries -- she is not as bad and H is better. My non-verbal boundaries are good. She lives 3000 miles away. Things are handled.

Brene Brown said “ Daring to set boundaries is about having the courage to love ourselves, even when we risk disappointing others. ”  She also talks about the impact of not setting boundaries being resentment.

Tomorrow H goes back to work and I am driving SD26 to the airport. I did not dare to set a boundary, I did not have the courage to love myself, I did not risk disappointing H.

It's too late, I surrendered. I gave up without even really trying to say no.

Airport is 2 hours away on a good day and a 4 hour roundtrip total. Tomorrow it will be rush hour traffic on a long weekend and the round trip will be close to 6 hours with just me and SD26 in the car.

It isn't even that I don't want to disappoint H, it's that I can't justify my own needs and wants to myself. And like Mommydoc's quote says, the impact of not having boundaries is resentment.

But when is it being petty and mean and when is it setting boundaries?

It really comes down to: I cannot stand SD26.

Someone on the boards once asked me that: do you even like her. And I tap-danced around the answer with "liking someone with BPD is complicated" but the truth is no.  

This used to be a me/H issue but this trip makes me think it's a me issue, where I am harboring a killer grudge over things that are not even about SD26, she is simply the target. Not that she doesn't have these aggravating qualities, more that my emotions are way out of balance with what is happening because I am carrying around something I really, really wish I could set down.

I found this:

Anger and rage are common emotions in the lives of codependents and may be seen as a part of the drama triangle. However, although many observers of codependent behavior focus on self-sacrifice and victimization, codependents may also be tremendously angry when they believe their power is being threatened. This is deep-seated rage that has most likely been repressed since infancy or adolescence. Children might be reluctant to display emotion for a variety of reasons. One possibility is that they were instructed (or commanded) not to, or feared the consequences of doing so.

I don't know what power is being threatened. I don't know what to do with this anger ... acknowledge it? Express it? (horrifying). If it's my anger from codependent FOO patterns that's bothering me, then what? Accept it and move on, like a phantom trace of FOO? What is lost if it is never addressed?

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone.

If you have experienced this, what came next for you?

[zachira]

Livednlearned,
You are being extremely triggered when around SD26 and wondering if some of your reactions are something about you and have nothing to do with SD26. Probably the hardest part of being triggered is when preverbal trauma and/or a repressed trauma kick(s) in that we cannot put into words. You really don't have to know why you are being triggered. What coping strategies usually work for you? Is it possible that you have reached your limits in that you can no longer be around SD26 for any length of time? What is the most amount of time you can be around her? Do you think you can drive safely to the airport with how you are feeling right now? Is there some other way to get her to the airport?

[livednlearned]

@zachira, thank you for that -- I am having troubling putting something into words.

Sometimes I think I am deep down a real $sh0l3 and codependence is how I have covered it up.

Feeling authentic is new to me. My feelings and actions often didn't match.

Being able to say how I feel in the moment without other emotions complicating the delivery is pretty recent, like within the last 10 years.

So many of my coping strategies have to do with leaving, fleeing, escaping, walking away, hiding.

[zachira]

Trauma Release Exercises (TRE) can really be helpful when we don't have a narrative for how triggered we are feeling. The internet has many TRE exercises. My therapist taught me some TRE exercises and they really helped. I started doing TRE again recently and I feel so much better.
Hope you are feeling better soon!

[Turkish]

Why didn't you joke back that it looks like you did OK but SD26 struggled? Would it have felt like punching a puppy? Not sure that you would have not exploded due to pent up resentment?

[GaGrl]

I tried to post, but it all disappeared. I take this as a sign I need to be more thoughtful in my response.


Ahh...my husband's ex brought up almost unmanageable emotions of anger and resentment. I'll try to be more thoughtful when I respond tomorrow.

[Turkish]

My ex and I have been separate since 2014, and after much drama, we tend to get along.

Last month, however, S13 called her (on speakerphone) to ask her to bring pants. She said, passive-aggressively, "daddy needs to buy you pants!" He was just being logical, our Aspie, and he often doesn't get that we live 7 miles apart though often heavy traffic so she can't just drop everything to meet his needs and I agree with that. I saw red and responded angrily, "we literally just came back from the clothing store 3 hours ago to buy him pants and I bought him 3 pairs but he didn't like one of which I'll return. I don't appreciate that you are implying that I'm not taking care of him!"

She didn't respond, and I felt badly that I said that in front of our son. The sad thing is that in our relationship, she was frustrated that I didn't rise up to challenge her more (translation: be a Punative Parent), and she thrived on conflict, mirroring the marriage of her parents.

[Riv3rW0lf]

LnL, I actually would also have been angry at someone implying I wouldn't make it in a hike, and I'd also have laughed internally a lot at seeing them pay... Probably would have said something light hearted like : "Karma is a real b*TCH, ain't it?" My point is : this is not petty, this is being human. For a while, I also considered I didn't have a right to feel this way, that this was wrong, I was brought up to take on so very much, I became very perfectionist, and this perfectionism started dripping into controlling all my normal and human urges.

I am reading "A wolf in sheep's clothing"... And I believe we ALL have the capacity for aggression and this is NOT wrong. The problem with BPDs/NPDs and such is that they don't channel it properly, they don't even try to control their aggression, they just aggress.

It's ok to be angry, it's ok to be triggered. It might not even be trauma related : maybe you just don't like her and IT'S OKAY. You cannot expect yourself to love and like everyone. And it's honestly ok to be unnerved by someone. Some people just get on my nerves as well...but I don't go slapping them, even though yes I sometimes also feel like it.

You have a right to take space with your feelings, and anger is a feeling, and it has a right to be there. Be gentle with yourself. You are not a bad person because you don't enjoy your SD company, come on. She is an egocentric bully. Good for her if she could manage herself enough to act ok during the visit, but it doesn't change who she generally is : a total b*tch to you. I mean .. laughing at you for the hike, coming from a real friend, I'm sure you can take a bit of gentle burning humor, but coming from her, I'd have steamed too. And following you to pee? Come on... Anyone else would have gone elsewhere, I'd have been unnerved too... "how old are you that you cannot pee by yourself ffs?" It's human.

You are keeping it in, you kept it in for a long time, it's wanting to come out now, and it's perfect, it's healing... Just need to learn to channel it appropriately but it takes time.

When I started judo, I became very aggressive. Not kidding you, I was ready to fight just about anyone . I still remember a phone call with someone from my daughter's dancing school. They had f*cked up, and I had written an email about it, and the director called me back telling me the clock was late. I said, ok I can forgive that. But she kept on going ! And she started insinuating things, how she trusted her team, how it wasn't this bad. I cut her right off : "I will not tolerate you telling me how my daughter felt and what is or isn't too much stress for her. Good for you if you trust your team, but I will not carry your responsibility for you. I can forgive the clock, mistakes happen, let's leave it at that." She kept going, and I decided to fight her, and I was way more aggressive than I ought to be, but this was new to me and a first try at "assertion". It was messy, a bit clumsy, but I am better at it now. It takes time... But it's a GOOD thing that you are in contact with your anger ! Just need to learn to channel it now...

You are still the good, wise and caring LnL I met here... we are complex beings, and feeling anger and being unnerved doesn't make you a bad person, nor does it make you petty... It makes you complex, and COMPLETE.

[kells76]

Hey...

I'm angry at myself.

uBPD SD26 is here. She came alone because SS23 had life-threatening brain surgery (he's stabilized).

SD26 is staying in our home.

Her behaviors are better and I'm still so triggered.

That wasn't the plan, from what I remember. I'd be enraged on two levels -- one, the content itself (her staying in my home), and two, the sudden/surprise change.

So it makes sense that her behaviors aren't the variable in this situation; it's not necessarily about something she's doing (even though it's fair to say that often, the issue is what she's doing).

My nervous system seems it will not tolerate anything she does. This includes breathing and eating.

I find myself feeling surges of aggression over petty things and then I'm mad at myself for being this way. What is happening.

Some of the things that bother me are so superficial I don't even want to share them here. They make me feel like a terrible person just admitting them to myself.

Not sure if I've shared this here, but we have a renter (we've sublet for years, as it's been financially necessary). Our current renter is a 27 year old female, and there's nothing wrong with her -- she's fine, she's just a mid-20s young woman. And I'm at the point where I cannot be in the same room with her. She is an external verbal processer and talks to herself, and wants to talk to me, and when she hears H and I having a conversation, she joins, and if the kids and I are talking, she joins. And all of that is probably just a normal shared living thing, where you want to be a nice person caring about the other people in the house, so you... talk to them. And when it happens, I get "homicidal" thinking (not truly acting on it, but the feeling gets put into words mentally that if this keeps going, one of us is going to die). I cannot handle it, and if we're in the same room together, I "pretend to be a normal person" making conversation until I can escape. I've stopped making bread at home because if I'm in the middle of that and she comes in, I would be trapped. She also has an unpredictable work schedule, so if I'm feeling sick at work, I don't want to go home, because I don't know if she's there or not. A mature person would have a "house discussion" where everyone shares their schedules. The thought of being open with her about what I need is insurmountable.

I intellectually understand that she is not the core issue, and that makes no difference to how I feel.

One example: We go on a strenuous hike in the mountains and I catch on to a light-hearted narrative that SD26 and H believe I will struggle on the hike. Except the opposite happens. We stop so often for SD26 to catch her breath that it adds 2 hours to our hike and S21 was at home worried about how late we were (no cell service). I enjoyed that SD26 struggled. It's my own passive aggression and I am so angry to feel this way.

I don't see people write about this often and I'm wondering where this is all coming from. Is this partly what codependent thinking is covering up?

My irritation seems irrational.

On our way down I tell H I'm going to pull off the trail to pee, and I'm heading into the bushes and hear twigs snapping and turn around and SD26 is right there, following me. I could've punched her I felt so furious. What is wrong with me.

I tell her go ahead, I'll find another spot. My energy is anger. I walk past H and he's like, wth LnL, and now we are both wondering what is wrong with me. It's not hormonal.

Nothing overtly bad is happening, it's me feeling petty and acting (mostly internally) like a child. 

Surely these emotions cannot all be about BPD behaviors because the extreme neediness/clinging, the lack of boundaries -- she is not as bad and H is better. My non-verbal boundaries are good. She lives 3000 miles away. Things are handled.

When you have all that anger, am I tracking with you that the way that anger gets expressed is verbalizing and writing that you are angry with yourself? So the anger gets pointed at you, and the expression is verbal/written, and the specific way that it gets verbalized is "there's something wrong with me / I'm the problem"?

Tomorrow H goes back to work and I am driving SD26 to the airport. I did not dare to set a boundary, I did not have the courage to love myself, I did not risk disappointing H.

It's too late, I surrendered. I gave up without even really trying to say no.

Airport is 2 hours away on a good day and a 4 hour roundtrip total. Tomorrow it will be rush hour traffic on a long weekend and the round trip will be close to 6 hours with just me and SD26 in the car.

It isn't even that I don't want to disappoint H, it's that I can't justify my own needs and wants to myself. And like Mommydoc's quote says, the impact of not having boundaries is resentment.

But when is it being petty and mean and when is it setting boundaries?

Coming from me, someone who regularly uses unhelpful language towards herself (so please don't think I have it together or am doing great in that area), I'm curious if you putting yourself down is regulating somehow. I can identify that when I am overwhelmed beyond my limits, that I tend to mentally have an extremely dark and negative train of thought about myself, and I experience that as balancing/regulating.

It really comes down to: I cannot stand SD26.

Someone on the boards once asked me that: do you even like her. And I tap-danced around the answer with "liking someone with BPD is complicated" but the truth is no. 

This used to be a me/H issue but this trip makes me think it's a me issue, where I am harboring a killer grudge over things that are not even about SD26, she is simply the target. Not that she doesn't have these aggravating qualities, more that my emotions are way out of balance with what is happening because I am carrying around something I really, really wish I could set down.

With our renter (and, I guess, with everything else that has hit my life over the last 2 years), as much as I can articulate to you rationally that "she's not the issue, she represents something to me or hits a sore spot for me, it's not her fault", etc, I also can't handle being around her -- and she's not even BPD. But it also isn't firewalled off -- I don't feel safe talking to H about stuff in the kitchen, because what if she bursts in suddenly and intrudes. And I could talk to you all day long about how I rationally understand that my feelings that life is profoundly unsafe, that at any moment I can be intruded on, that there's nowhere I can go to be alone, that those feelings spring from FOO issues that I'm carrying around. I get it and it makes zero difference to how I feel, and the fact that I know it comes from somewhere is zero help in setting it down. It's not like I can be in the kitchen and she comes in and I feel like I want to murder someone, and I can tell myself "Well, kells76, what an interesting feeling you're having, isn't it helpful to know that it isn't her, but it's from your past? Doesn't that help you let it go?" It sure doesn't!

I found this:

Anger and rage are common emotions in the lives of codependents and may be seen as a part of the drama triangle. However, although many observers of codependent behavior focus on self-sacrifice and victimization, codependents may also be tremendously angry when they believe their power is being threatened. This is deep-seated rage that has most likely been repressed since infancy or adolescence. Children might be reluctant to display emotion for a variety of reasons. One possibility is that they were instructed (or commanded) not to, or feared the consequences of doing so.

I don't know what power is being threatened. I don't know what to do with this anger ... acknowledge it? Express it? (horrifying). If it's my anger from codependent FOO patterns that's bothering me, then what? Accept it and move on, like a phantom trace of FOO? What is lost if it is never addressed?

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone.

If you have experienced this, what came next for you?

It may be a fluke that the privacy of our own home is a factor for both of us -- not sure. For me the question of "what power is being threatened" might be something like -- "I have no power to control who intrudes in what should be the safest place I have on this earth. At any moment I can be unsafe through the unpredictable bulldozing of others."

It makes a lot of sense to me.

I am experiencing it right now and not healthily. It "worked" for a while for me to "feel better" by just thinking dark and negative things about myself. I now notice myself directing my impotent rage at myself in physically destructive ways that I feel ashamed about, because the "buzz" I got from a purely verbal mental narrative wore off.

You are keeping it in, you kept it in for a long time, it's wanting to come out now, and it's perfect, it's healing... Just need to learn to channel it appropriately but it takes time.

For me, my question would be related to Riv3rW0lf's question -- how do I discharge this deep anger and loathing appropriately, when life feels so profoundly unsafe everywhere?

You're not alone 

[GaGrl]

When my H and I reconnected (having been teens in love), and he told me what his life and marriage had been like, and the more I saw the resulting damage done by his ex (uBPD/NPD)  on H and their by-then adult children -- I developed a deep anger and abiding resentment toward her.

I tried to be nice -- didn't work. Her daughter and granddaughter were living with us, and I welcomed her to visit with them. She insulted me.

Ex's behaviors are so bad, so destructive, with no insight on her part and no wish to change. Some of you know the depth of her dysfunction -- some of it is not only reprehensible but also illegal.

I loathe her.

What helped were two factors. 1) Ex moved 1500 miles away. Physical distance helps. 2) I practiced Radical Forgiveness. That doesn't mean I let her have a place in my life. It did result in my inner acceptance of having no control over the past she created, the present situation in which she operates, or any responsibility for what she might do in future.

Of course, dealing with an ex is different than dealing with a stepchild.

[livednlearned]

To all of you, omg thank you.

I'm about to rush off to get SD26 to her hotel so can't write a lot, but wow. I needed this.

I am enraged right now.

More soon.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey livenlearned, I mean subtle things can wear on you. Like I kept cooking the other day and every time I look over my Dad is looking at me, needy, also, the other night I set boundaries because I was tired, and angry, he starts dumping on me, acting helpless over little things, just nagging me, I got mad and said, you can do this stuff, I don’t want to talk, and slapped something on the counter angrily. I was angry that night and pushed everyone away, even my pets. I think it can be just spreading yourself too thin, boundaries being worn down, baggage with the person. I told my Dad the next day it causes me to feel like cutting him off, because it feels like harassment.

Bothering you when you were gonna pee is kinda crappy… I definitely have anger balance issues sometimes because my parents bullied me into stuffing it down, to keep the peace. Anyone can be petty, bitter and enraged if they put up with too much bs. I wouldn’t sweat that. I fully support you giving the smack down to someone to make this more bearable for yourself.

[livednlearned]

I'm going to thoughtfully respond to all of you when I cool down and can think. I haven't quite processed it all. I got so upset I cried and I don't cry easily.

I was in my office for a work call that was 2.5 hours long and important to me. H was at work today, SD26 was told that the house was basically an office. She could go out and get breakfast but she was to be quiet so I could focus on this meeting.

While I was at the tail end of the meeting I see SD26 go past my office door to my bedroom. She entered my bedroom. Then entered my bathroom. I hear the pocket door slide close to the toilet.

 

I am usually so contained and controlled it's not normal, but this. No.

I tried to get into my bedroom and the   door was locked. WTF. I grabbed a thingy to pop open the lock and enter, and then rapped on the bathroom door, also locked. "  are you in there!"

Nothing.

More knocking. I might have banged I don't remember.

NOTHING.

This house has 3 bathrooms. WTF is she doing in my bathroom.

Some of you may remember this BS from years ago when she walked in on me getting out of the shower in my own bathroom. Another time she walked into my closet when I was in there. I came home and found her in my bed one afternoon.  

Then the thing in the mountains where she followed me to pee.

I mean, is this BPD or something entirely different.

I heard her open the pocket door to the toilet, I heard flushing, then she opens the bathroom door and I said "What are you doing in my bathroom?"

Said with eye dagger + fury rage anger mad tone.

I tried to walk it back a bit (plausible deniability) with: "Is something wrong with the other bathroom."

This was me pissed and she knew.

SD26: "I was weighing myself."

Full waif face.

Me, uncharacteristically deadly voice: "No."

I know how to handle these things with people at work, in other parts of my life but I could barely speak. I had to leave the house and literally walk it off. My legs were trembling, my hands were shaking.

My parents tolerated sibling violence between me and uBPD brother. It was chronic and unrelenting. When I was in my teens I begged to have a proper lock on my room (uBPD brother shared a jack and jill bathroom) and was told, no, that would just antagonize him.

It doesn't take a therapist to see the connection. I used to have recurring nightmares about men coming into bathrooms with no doors until I did trauma therapy.

Then SD26 shows up and I don't know, maybe she doesn't scare me like men have scared me, but the boundary issues are there and she's a more manageable target ... ?

A dynamic in FOO is that my mother would violate boundaries, I would get upset at her, she would waif out and whip up my father, he would come down on me. With H protecting SD26/waif. It's the same dynamic all over again.

Back then with the bathroom/SD26 thing my T said, It's not about trauma, this is nuts behavior. Instruct SD26 to follow a commonly held boundary and don't make it seem like LnL has a problem with it -- it's a problem, period.

I enlisted help from H. New rule: No SD26 in our bedroom.

H repeatedly let SD26 roll through the boundary.

So I started locking the door to our bedroom. H was inconvenienced and yet didn't say anything because he knew, this is a natural next step. The bedroom/bathroom/SD26 is weird, he can't stop, door gets locked.

Earlier this visit, I walk into my bathroom and it smells like perfume. I ask H, what's up with the smell? He tells me SD26 is using our shower. He says S21's bathroom has an odor. But this is weird. SD26 is filthy. I mean hoarder level filthy. We had to have the bathroom she used professionally cleaned in our last house. So she can't use S21's shower because there's an odor?

I investigated the other shower, we determine it's the bathmat, problem solved. "The other shower odor is gone, she uses that shower."

Then I hear her later in our shower and H seems sheepish, apologetic, "I'm sorry, her shampoo was in there and S21 was using the bathroom so I said go ahead."

So is this it: if you don't show your anger you are not heard?

All my life I was taught you're strong if you aren't losing your temper. You're even stronger if you never complain.

Tonight, H ended up taking SD26 to the airport. He offered it by text, he knew my meetings today had a lot riding on them. Taking her was not because he knew about the stuff with the bathroom.

It makes me realize how it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not intentional, I used to think it did. If it's not intentional, then that's a lesser issue. If it's intentional, armor up.

But with SD26 and by extension H (but only when it comes to her) boundaries are a nonstop effort. It's armor up regardless of intent.

[Turkish]

She's a filthy level hoarder? Forgive me if I've missed that you've shared this previously, but to me it's a new twist. My mom was as bad as the worst cases on the hoarder shows, smelly and filthy.

I don't blame your for being  she got into your private space. That's totally unacceptable.

[livednlearned]

SD26's BPD mom is the same.

My BPD hermit grandmother was also a hoarder. When she was moved to memory care/assisted living my father backed a dumpster up to the house and they tossed things out the window.

[Mommydoc]

Thankfully she is gone and you can get some relief. I want to validate that given what you have shared, anger is a completely appropriate emotion. What you went through in your FOO, might lower your threshold to be triggered, but anyone would be triggered with what you described.

All my life I was taught you're strong if you aren't losing your temper. You're even stronger if you never complain.

.

By definition, we all have walked on eggshells and were socialized to suppress anger, not complain… we told ourselves that self control = strength. Self management of our emotions is an important part of emotional intelligence and is very admirable. But many of us probably over use that strength to the point of suppressing our anger, which is unhealthy. Like you, I had such strong self control, that I neglected my own needs and suppressed my own emotions. Anger was an emotion I saw as very toxic and negative, and I mentally rejected it when it surfaced within me.

You have countless reasons to be feeling angry right now. (I am actually feeling pretty angry just reading the string). It may be that the multi factorial nature may make it hard to process and work through. Is it possible to step back, be curious, tease it out, and process each piece at a time? Can you embrace your anger as legitimate and actionable? Sorry all to quote Brene again, but this helped me a lot and might resonate. In Atlas of the Heart she said Anger is a catalyst. It is an emotion we need to transform into something life giving: courage, love,  change, compassion and justice .
 
So sorry you are experiencing this LNL. Be kind to yourself, and hope you find respite and peace now that she is gone.

[Turkish]

Hoarding is about fear of loss in combination with asserting control of one's environment due to anxiety. That's a tough thing to deal with. 

[Methuen]

Late to the thread, but wow - great thread.  

Not proud to admit it, but when my mom had a friend telephone me to take her to emergency less than 24 hrs after putting on a star performance for the geriatrician to show how capable she is to him, I exploded.  I know the pattern and I am sick to death of it.  My H calmly let me sound off and eventually said, why don’t we just wait until we see her?  After waiting in emerg for 2 hours without seeing a doc she decided she was better and asked to be taken home. Was I angry?  Yes…but not to  her.

Jeepers creepers LNL, unless we’re Jesus or Mohammed or some other God or saint, we’re gonna feel anger.  If we didn’t feel anger at times, we wouldn’t be human.  You’re being way too hard on yourself…

Have you had any luck trying to use humour or deflection in these moments with her?

Eg.  She follows you into the bushes when you announce you are going to pee:

You: “Having trouble finding your own bathroom?”  What’s up?  Not enough space out here in the wilderness to find your own spot to pee?”

I’m curious if some of your anger is a result of feeling so powerless around her? Do you answer her back?

For 50 years,  my mom repeatedly mocked me for being stupid because as a baby I crawled up to the Christmas tree and bit  into a glass ball.  She reports I was bleeding and she hadvto take all the glass out of my mouth.

I never said anything because I didn’t want to be disrespectful to my mother or hurt her feelings, since other people were often present. Also because I’m afraid of her.  When I was in my mid 50’s, she was still telling this story but I finally found my voice and answered her.  I replied:  “why did that baby’s mother hang a glass decoration at the bottom of the Christmas tree where a crawling baby would find it?”  I wasn’t rude or angry but used a tone of curiosity - and I redirected the accountability to her.  She never told the story again.

Sometimes I wonder if they treat us badly because we allow ourselves to be their doormats. All because we don’t want to seem rude or hurt their feelings. Often because we’re scared.

We go on a strenuous hike in the mountains and I catch on to a light-hearted narrative that SD26 and H believe I will struggle on the hike. Except the opposite happens. We stop so often for SD26 to catch her breath that it adds 2 hours to our hike and S21 was at home worried about how late we were (no cell service). I enjoyed that SD26 struggled. It's my own passive aggression and I am so angry to feel this way.

Is it just me, or is this like the chicken feeling angry at itself for feeling angry that it got eaten by the fox?  Because I think that’s what’s happening here…

Now when Wagner turned the tanks away from Ukraine, and towards Moscow, there was some irony in where the tanks were marching to.  Similarly, when the lighthearted joking was directed  at you, it was ironic that it was her that slowed the hike down.  The two are not the sane thing ir in the same class.  My point is that what goes around comes around, and you aren’t the first person to think that justice was served and feel some satisfaction from that.  I think almost everyone does this.

I don't know what power is being threatened. I don't know what to do with this anger ... acknowledge it? Express it? (horrifying). If it's my anger from codependent FOO patterns that's bothering me, then what? Accept it and move on, like a phantom trace of FOO? What is lost if it is never addressed?  

Doesn’t anger need to be processed so it doesn’t just keep returning (as in being re-triggered?). Isn’t self-expression one way to process anger?  Write a letter but don’t send it.  Paint a picture.  Dance.  Do movement.  I tend to go on my treadmill till the point of exhaustion, or I go bang out some Beethoven (sorry Beethoven).  A lot of people I know go chop firewood.  Perhaps Picasso was working out some things in his paintings..  Punching a pillow is suggested by some.  Find some acceptable way to express that anger.  And yes, you’ve a right to feel anger.  Feel it. Express it.  Release it.  

And above all, accept that it’s ok.

I think she went into your bedroom and bathroom because she gets something from doing that, and she knows nothing will happen.  She feels completely safe in doing this.  So why would she stop?  She’s playing with you.

What I don’t get is why your H doesn’t hold your boundaries?  I mean, telling her she can go in when he knows this causes you distress?  It sounds like there’s other bathrooms.  Maybe an honest chat with your H is needed when you are feeling calmer?

Glad you got relief and he drove her to the airport.  Glad for you she’s gone.  

I suggest reminding yourself it’s ok to be angry, and find an outlet to express that anger.  Are you a weaver?  Maybe create a chaotic black and red throw…?  Or take up boxing?  Then threaten to box her ears the next time she follows you into the bush to pee.  

She’s breaking the biundaries because she can.  

I still can’t believe my mom stopped telling that stupid Christmas glass ball story.  All I needed to do was deflect what she was doing right back to her.  

Not sure if any of this is helpful or not, but I am sorry for your suffering, and hope it subsides soon.   I just think you’re being way too hard on yourself.  It sounds like you’re angry at yourself for being angry.  Have I got that right?  But you’re not a BOT, right? Feel better soon.  I hope I haven’t said anything to make it worse.

 

[Riv3rW0lf]

There is a tendency, I think from most of us here, to blame ourselves for our trauma... We take responsibility for our emotions to such an extent, that when someone steamroll through our clear boundaries and we get triggered, we take responsibility for it because we somehow convinced ourselves that it's on us if we got triggered, so surely we just have to release some more trauma so that everyone can live happily ever after steamrolling all over us, without us reacting, right? It doesn't make ANY sense. This is NOT healthy for anyone.

You have trauma regarding bathrooms, this is a private space, you require to know this is a safe space for you. Check.
How about accepting that this trauma is now part of your personality, of who you are today? LnL doesn't want to share bathroom. Is it a fair limit? YES. It's your house, there are other bathrooms. So it is reasonable. You are not telling her she cannot clean herself for all the duration of the visit, she just has to use another bathroom than the one adjacent to your bedroom. Like... Basic, reasonable request.

I don't like sharing my bed. My father once took my bed away from me for three weeks because his girlfriend wasn't happy with his. I slept on the floor, because of course they had thrown out their own bed and I wasn't allowed to use my sister's bed, even though she wasn't there. All this to please the Mrs. Crazy that took extra please making my life a living hell. They said "I could get my bed back when they got their new one" Now, I hate people messing with my bedroom or entering my bedroom. Somehow, it became a very private place for me, my safe place. I don't see it as trauma though, I see it as me.

You enforced a boundary, you were clear. Check.

She goes in anyway ! She is the one with the problem, NOT YOU. If it were me, I would respect your boundary LnL. Anyone here would respect your boundary, because it is a legit, clear boundary.

I notice in your story that you... Gave her a way out? You asked her what she was doing in the bathroom... Then gave her a way out, asking her if there was something wrong with the other one. You took the blame for her. But you are not to blame, and you have every rights to be angry. And at your H too! I am angry at them just reading this !

It's a matter of respect, it is YOUR house, YOUR home. It should feel like a safe space... And she locked the freacking door to YOUR bedroom? Just wow! I'd have thrown and choke the little b*itch (I'm joking but just to say you absolutely had the right to your anger!)

And to answer your question : I absolutely do believe now you will have to show legit ANGER to be heard by your H. And if he tries to guiltrip you because of this anger, or waif his way out : then it is manipulation. And I'd hold onto this anger until he can apologize and stand by you for real. The fact that he lets his daughter steamrolled all over his wife's boundary is completely unacceptable.

I get that step families are hard, my parents were separated, and it's all I knew... Having to deal with step-parents... So, coming from a step-daughter: I respect my father and step-mother relationship, and we both respect each other boundaries. I don't go snooping all over her things, and I still ask permission before playing her piano, even though she told me many times I didn't have to ask. I know what is special to her, and I respect those things, because I respect her. (You will guess she is not Mrs. Crazy from the previous story... I met an awful lot of step-parents )

They are walking all over you, PLEASE BE ANGRY. Angry is protection, angry is action... Anger is not a bad thing, it's a beautiful emotion. Anger can be so easily channelled into action, it's one of the strongest emotion. Anger will make you move ! It will make you do something, change things (I agree with Mommydoc quote). Anger is only unhealthy when it is directly taken out on someone... Like your brother did to you... And like you are currently doing to yourself...

To all of us, me included : THIS is the trauma we need to free ourselves from. Not being triggered, but living anger as a problem and blaming ourselves, directing our own anger at ourselves, not holding the actual abusers accountable, this is the trauma we have to clean, because this is what is keeping us in a self-abusive state, unhappy and in pain. Anger is protection : it's ok to protect ourselves, so being angry is ok. Over time, anger morphes to healthy assertion. But with some people, we do need to be really angry.

So now : take this anger energy, and stop directing it at you, direct it on the actual people that disrespected your very clear needs and boundaries and yes, I do mean your SD AND your H.

We had issues with my MIL for a while with H... I put water in my wine, but he was expected to do certain things...and he did. And I am holding him to it. There is no coming back to before the boundary. And yes, I was angry at him, and we had talks. And I told him there was simply no choice : it's on him to take a stand, and I am expecting it from him if we are to maintain a happy relationship because I will not tolerate his parents barging in our door whenever they feel like it, and I will not tolerate his mother buying us craps and just coming at our house unannounced to give it to us. Just no. My mother always barged in unannounced, opening my bedroom door, not caring about privacy. This is me now. My trauma is me, and I have a right to those boundaries, they make me feel safe and comfortable. Some people don't give a damn about people coming unannounced, well I am not those people so too f*cking bad, I care and I don't like it, so people will announce themselves before coming, and those that are unhappy about it can just go elsewhere.

So if LnL doesn't like sharing bathroom, then LnL shouldn't have to share bathroom.

Let's all stop looking at ourselves like our trauma is what is to blame. Our trauma is our history. It made us who we are, and we have a right to those boundaries and preferences. When someone steamroll over our boundaries : we have a right to show anger.  

[Notwendy]

LnL- My take from this is that before the next visit, you do something proactive- long before a next visit is planned, because these visits are just miserable for you. I don't think it even warrants your explaining this to your H- it's how you feel. That's enough. Since she is his daughter, I don't think it's possible to not have any contact with her- some will probably need to be tolerated- but how can you make this as least stressful to you as possible?

Yes, the result of co-dependent behavior is feeling resentful. You don't want to drive 2 hours with her to the airport. Is there a shuttle? A cab might be expensive but on the other hand, might be worth not having to do this.

Once I was at a family function where elderly BPD mother would attend. I imagined that she'd be asking me to assist her. I don't mind helping her when we are together but this time, I wanted to spend time with other family members too. How would I be able to enjoy the visit? I hired a caretaker for her for the event. It worked out well. I could visit with her and also other family members. If I had been mostly assisting her, I feel I would have missed out on seeing other family members and also felt resentful.

Your SD isn't in need of a caregiver for the elderly, but you also don't want to have the role of emotionally caretaking her when she visits. One issue I think for you is the amount of time you spend in contact with her. Even if she's not behaving poorly- there's an energy aspect of this. It takes energy to be on guard. Also, I think we can sense emotionally needy people or people with poor boundaries.

I had this experience with someone I didn't even know well. An acquaintance  from college was in town and we met for dinner. I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary with this person. There wasn't anything romantic between us, it was just a casual friendship. Somehow, dinner with him felt draining. I couldn't even state why. But I think we can somehow sense when something is "off" about another person and we can pay attention to that. Your SD doesn't have to behave poorly for you to feel something isn't all OK around her. You can pay attention to your feelings.

What can you do to make these visits less upsetting for you? It's hard to not allow her to stay with you as it's your H's house too and it's his child, but you also don't have to entertain her or be her driver. I would avoid times of long contact- driving to the airport, day long hikes- let your H do this. If he won't drive her, then get a shuttle or cab. Try to not be alone with her.

We are only human. I have "lost it" with BPD mother at times. It doesn't go well as she has a way of deflecting it and then, there's the pay back on her part. I recall a time when my father was very sick, I was out shopping and she called me and I just lost it with her right there in the store. I am sure people thought I was crazy. But I was overwhelmed.

Methuen- my mother has stories of things I did as a very young child that make me wonder too. One is that, as a toddler, I threw up on her carpet "on purpose". Toddlers don't control this- it's more likely that I had eaten something that upset my stomach at the time. She also says I was "selfish" as I didn't want to share my cookie. What little kid wants to not keep a cookie? She seemed to project motives.

[GaGrl]

lnl, I too am so angry for you!

From a basic etiquette standpoint, this was beyond rude (even if the history wasn't there). A guest comes to stay, you give the guest their space, and you respect their privacy during the stay. It's very well understood, with overnight guests and even casual entertaining, that a guest doesn't go into the master bedroom and bath. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I've operated since houses started having multiple bathrooms/powder rooms.

Add to the basic rudeness that SD26 has established a history of boundary-busting over bedroom and bath...

I think it's time to establish the boundary that SD26 never, NEVER, stays overnight in your house again, even if it means a hotel room or air bnb by herself. She has proved herself incapable of respecting privacy -- multiple times.

Whether it's you or your H who delivers the message, SD26 needs to get it quickly -- not down the road when the next visit is planned -- clearly, succinctly, firmly.

This isn't about avoiding hurt feelings. This is about your self-protection. And H needs to step up big-time.

[I Am Redeemed]

LnL, I just had to chime in and agree with others here that this behavior would absolutely p$*# me off, too.

I can’t help but wonder if she feels that since it’s her dad’s house, she’s sort of “home” and not a guest, therefore she feels she can use any room she wants regardless of what rules are set or how it makes you feel.

It’s super weird and annoying and I would also be furious.

I think maybe you hold yourself to high expectations regarding feelings because you recognize your role as the emotional leader. That doesn’t mean you’re not human. I think it’s natural that you felt smug that she struggled on the hike after joking about you. I also think, given the full context, that it’s natural for you cannot tolerate the tiniest bit of contact with her, especially with her in the house.

What happened after the latest bathroom incident? How did your h respond to the situation?

[livednlearned]

I've been a bit of a mess the last two days.  

I'm trying to not edit myself while I work through this so bear with me.

I think I processed this faster because of what each of you shared but I'm still a bit upside down and feeling disjointed.

SD26 left. After she was gone, H and I had a nice moment resting on the couch, very close. Comfortable. I asked if he had a good week and he said yes. Sometimes I enjoy it when he complains about SD26 so quite honestly I was a bit disappointed to hear this. Not proud of this but there it is. Maybe enjoy is too strong a word. I'm probably looking for validation that she's difficult.

H made a comment that SD26 doesn't travel smart. Since her name came up, I asked if the smell in the guest bathroom had offended SD26. H said no, he was the one who noticed the odor.

This isn't a small detail. This is H helping SD26 violate a boundary she needs no help violating.

OR. This is a small detail. When it's something that doesn't bother you (bathroom boundaries), it's easy to forget. There are things that are important to H that aren't to me, and I forget them even though I care about him.

Maybe I think I've been obvious about this boundary and I'm not? I've only lost my temper once in 10 years with H and it was after a party we had at our house. I was tidying up, feeling tense because SD26 was flitting around like it was her party, and after everyone left and we were cleaning up I saw she was in my bedroom sitting on our bed.

We were just entering the bathroom/bedroom boundary phase. I can't remember how I had handled it up to that point but I know we were working through it.

I remember getting angry with H (SD26 was in her room by then) and immediately caught that I was behaving like my mom, who holds things in and then she blows up, but it's like a tantrum a kid has, and it's like wtf, where did that come from. It's hard to take it seriously because the emotion is so out of proportion, especially when things seemed to be ok in the moments leading up.

I cut the anger off immediately -- I recognized the root of the emotion. It was how I felt competing for scarce resources with BPD sibling, and I admitted this to H in the heat of the moment. And I remember seeing love/compassion on H's face but also some relief and maybe surprise. He felt more comfortable with me diffusing my own anger. I am very good at this. Too good?

I know now, because we've since talked, that he doesn't understand why I don't say in the moment what matters to me. Which I also don't understand.

I also can see a pattern that is similar for both me and H. We have high anxiety about two of our kids. For me it's S21. For him it's SD26. They are stressful kids in different ways. I feel anxiety when H suggests changes with S21 and same for me suggesting things change in terms of SD26. We are both protective of our kids and we both probably know that what I say about SD26, or what H says about S21, are true. It's difficult trying to do what's right when there are so many emotions involved. Being step parents is challenging.

Sometimes I think H and I are the same people except that I've had more therapy.

Since things felt calm, I said to H: "Next time SD26 is here -- and this goes for SS24, SD29 and her brother (also visiting this summer) -- can we agree no one goes in our bedroom or bathroom except you and me."

I felt H kind of tense up.

Me: "I went to use my bathroom and the bedroom door was locked. I got it open and found the bathroom door locked. SD26 was using our toilet."

H: "Why was she in there?"

Me: "I think she figured it was ok. She was told it was ok to use the shower, why not everything else in there."

H: "I didn't tell her she could use our toilet."

Me: (can't remember)

H: "Guest bathroom smelled --"

Me: (something about I don't want anyone using our bathroom - chill version, calm voice, one sentence, two at the most)

H: "Ok let's not talk about this anymore. This is enough."

We are both a bit like this. Bring up a sensitive topic and the other person shuts it down.

H has had a rough year. Our beloved dog died suddenly. H's dad (some kind of PD) died shortly after. H got Covid while dealing with everything. H's son had life-threatening brain surgery a month ago.

I try to keep myself as small as possible when I see other people struggling. This seems to be the coping mechanism that drives H the most nuts. He feels like I withdraw or slip away when he needs me most. In my mind, though, I'm sparing him the trivial things that are bugging me.

Yesterday H noticed me withdrawing and I gave him a heads up that I was editing myself so he could have a day without anything that had a whiff of conflict. He pressed, and I asked if maybe I'm not handling things with SD26 and the bathroom the right way. Erase SD26 from the topic and make it about us: What am I missing?

I felt like it went ok ... We ended it feeling close, but then later after he went and did stuff on his own, it turned into "SD26 cannot ever stay here again. You have too much conflict with her. I'm worried about the other kids coming to stay, blah blah."

One thing I've learned about conflict is to keep things on one topic and not let new content distract from the main thing. H has a tendency to kitchen sink when there is conflict so I ignore the kitchen sinking and stick to the main thing.

But for someone reason, hearing him say "SD26 cannot stay here" only made me feel worse.

Why?

Some codependent traits got cracked in all this.

I felt low self-worth and insecurity, like I failed at something. Even though objectively I just had an important conversation with someone I love about about a tough topic and it went well.

That part seems to be connected to my feelings about trauma in general. I think of BPD among the most severe trauma. I have trauma too. I'm always trying to figure out how to square that circle.

There's something else ... the intent of rolling through boundaries matters to me. Whether it's on purpose or whether it's just business as usual for someone who has none. Lately with SD26 I wonder if she's permanently disassociated. Meaning, there is not a self to disassociate from, as in disassociating. Does that make sense? She isn't like someone who has a self to re-associate with. She's not associating with her core self, therefore she is just seeking seeking seeking. It's horrifying to think about.

It doesn't change anything about having boundaries with her. That is the same. What is different, if this even matters, if I'm even correct about her, is that the boundaries I set could be more matter-of-fact. That the emotions that come up when I assert a boundary are about my FOO and how frightening or fruitless it was to try and have boundaries as a child.

I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

I guess what I'm trying to work through is whether I can help myself set down the old FOO trauma and some of the blended family grief discovering yet another BPD relationship, and focus on the nuts and bolts of healthy boundaries without drama on my part.

Whew. Hopefully some of that adds up to something that makes sense.






 

[kells76]

It doesn't change anything about having boundaries with her. That is the same. What is different, if this even matters, if I'm even correct about her, is that the boundaries I set could be more matter-of-fact. That the emotions that come up when I assert a boundary are about my FOO and how frightening or fruitless it was to try and have boundaries as a child.

I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

I guess what I'm trying to work through is whether I can help myself set down the old FOO trauma and some of the blended family grief discovering yet another BPD relationship, and focus on the nuts and bolts of healthy boundaries without drama on my part.

Whew. Hopefully some of that adds up to something that makes sense.

That's making sense to me -- is this close:

In the past, you've connected SD26 personal space boundary busting with FOO trauma, perhaps like "there has to be a connection" or "this is where it comes from", and that idea of connection between her current boundary busting, your feelings, and your FOO stuff is up front as you set and enforce boundaries in the present.

And you're wondering -- what if I try just having straightforward boundaries, and it "doesn't matter", as it were, whether you need them because of your trauma, or your FOO, or things she's done in the past, or any other possibly connected reason. What if you just made the rule that she may not go in your bathroom, that's final, and there doesn't have to be "a reason" for it.

And the question is kind of -- would you be able to do it that way.

Is any of that in the area of what you're thinking?

[zachira]

I have been thinking long and hard on what is being discussed here. I can't imagine being in the same house with some of the people who have abused me. I think my system is set now that it would really react. At the same time, I do see my CPTSD kicking in at times and overreacting to people's disordered behaviors. Sometimes it is a bit of both: I am becoming overwhelmed because I am around unsafe people, and  I am struggling to stay centered and calm due to past traumatic experiences.

[livednlearned]

And the question is kind of -- would you be able to do it that way.

I have to hope so ... SD26 is not going anywhere.

We can't keep doing this.

I think this is about authenticity and intimacy and tossing out garbage codependent behavior that keeps me stuck. I've come so far, and none of that was easy and some of it seemed impossible but it's less of a problem so something worked. Strangely, the period of the most growth happened during the custody battle with n/BPDx. Everything was so raw and broken open. It was easier to get to the root of things.

Now stuff is a bit buried and harder to access but I kind of have a blueprint. Either I stay scared and nervous and stuck or I wade into the dark scary stuff and hope things improve (pep talk  )

I have been thinking long and hard on what is being discussed here. I can't imagine being in the same house with some of the people who have abused me. I think my system is set now that it would really react. At the same time, I do see my CPTSD kicking in at times and overreacting to people's disordered behaviors. Sometimes it is a bit of both: I am becoming overwhelmed because I am around unsafe people, and  I am struggling to stay centered and calm due to past traumatic experiences.

This moved me to send a hug  I'm so sorry you had to endure disordered people on so many multiple fronts. I am shocked to find myself with yet another person with a PD in my family. Shock is the right word. I spent the last decade learning to keep myself safe and did not expect the person who I feel safest with (H) would also be the person who lets this ONE intruder through, repeatedly. It has emphasized for me how this is a thing I have to get a handle on, alone and with H.

Why I participate in making things unsafe for myself has to do with this love and safety I feel with H. So complicated for my nervous system.

The one silver lining to me taking on a lot of responsibility is that H kind of trusts me when we go through this. We are not reactively defensive although it has been hard to average one argument a month for the last six months. It's a new normal we are unsettled by.

We did an autopsy on what happened and I think we are both back to baseline. He asked me what it was about SD26 that was so triggering and I asked if it mattered. Also, he knows. Why rehash.

I asked why he would think SD26, who has no sense of hygiene, would care about a faint odor in the guest bath, and he said it was probably him trying to do something nice for her, while acknowledging that he can't tell if she recognizes these gestures. His codependence. So why have her use our shower after he cleaned it? H said it was laziness. The shower was cleaned and he didn't close the loop with her, and I didn't say anything so it stayed status quo.

One thing that I'm still trying to work through is why I feel bad when he said SD26 would not stay here again. You would think I would be celebrating.

It seems to be connected to guilt, since S21 has been so hard to launch and H is remarkably patient. My kid gets to live here and one of his kids can't visit. Not a good feeling 

[zachira]

You are wondering why you feel bad instead of celebrating when your H says SD26 will not stay at your home again. Perhaps it is because you would be glad to have a healthy SD stay at your home if she were normal. You are not the kind of stepmother who would mistreat a step child and instead are one that would try to welcome the step children into your home. However the situation with SD26 is different and you have to protect yourself. I think a lot of us on this site go through periods of feeling bad, I know I do, about what measures we have to take to protect ourselves from disordered family members, something we would not have to do if we were dealing with more normal family members.

[GaGrl]

Something occurred to me that is a "boundaries back-to-basics." When we talk about boundaries, we suggest that we connect them to values, to help define the boundary and to make it easier and clearer in holding to it. And we then say that the boundary is for us, not the person(s) to whom it is directed. And then further, that we need to define it in terms of the action we will take if the boundary is crossed.

So here's what I'm seeing/hearing...

You have a value of personal privacy and safety, that your bedroom and bathroom, that you share only with your husband, your intimate partner, is your safe  space -- your sacred space.

SD26 consistently crosses that boundary. She is not going to change her behavior.

So here's what is missing for me...

What action will you take when SD26 violates the boundary?

Because what I hear is that you will talk with your H. And it's not H's boundary -- unless he is willing to take it on for you.

Right now it sounds like the boundary is, "When SD26 enters my bedroom/bathroom and violates my privacy, my action will be to manage my anger but wait until she leaves, and then talk to H, who will then say she no longer stays at our house on visits, and H will then arrange for her to stay in a hotel the next time she visits...but SD26 will never know why, because no one wants to hurt her feelings."

My read on it.. how does that sound to you? How much of the action/response is you, and how much is H?

[Turkish]

SD26 almost sounds like she might be on the autism spectrum.

[I Am Redeemed]

SD26 almost sounds like she might be on the autism spectrum.

That crossed my mind, too.

What happened to locking the bedroom door when SD26 is there? Seems like that was working.