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usagi
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« on: July 15, 2023, 01:00:00 AM »

I've been with my partner now for almost 4 years.  The first few months were amazing.  Then I noticed that she would get extremely upset over seemingly small things.  It was the start of COVID and we decided to take the plunge and move in together with her 8 year old son.  We have had lots of ups and downs over the years but recently thing have been getting worse.  It seems like she'd have a blow up every 2 to three weeks.  Sometimes more often.  I found a therapist in the aftermath of one of the large outbursts.  She pointed me toward the idea that she may be experiencing BPD/NPD.  After reading about it I realized that it may be true.  Stories I read were like pages from my life with her.

In the past six months she's threatened to break up with me several times.  Each time she eventually calms down and apologizes for her actions and we patch things up.  But recently, I've tried to hold to a boundary I've struggled to maintain.  She's out of town with her son and mother.  She had been asking me if I would attend an event that would keep me from seeing her for a bit longer (half day?) when she gets back in town and it is too much for her to handle.  Additionally, this activity of mine has always been a source of friction.  I feel like I need to hold this boundary because it's something that I feel is part of my identity.  I've already cut back on how often I attend since moving in with her.  Even that seems to be not enough.  I want to try to maintain our relationship but I'm afraid that she can't accommodate my needs.

I'm wracked with guilt and feeling that I should just abandon this activity just to please her.  But the rational side of me knows that it will just lead to her stepping over more of my boundaries and possibly lead to me losing my identity.

I'll be seeing her in a couple days and I'm not sure how to talk with her about this.  I'm assuming she'll continue with her argument that I'm choosing this over my family.  But I don't see it that way.  From what I've read I should definitely recognize her painful emotions and not minimize them.  At the same time, I feel I need to hold to my boundary and my decision to attend the event.  I'm afraid that she'll just kick me out of the house and that will be that.

If anyone has advice for my situation I'd appreciate it.  I love her deeply and don't want to lose her.  I'm hopeful that now I've learned about BPD I can start to develop some tools that will help me ride out these rollercoasters.  I also know that I need to get more comfortable holding to my boundaries.

Are there just some boundaries you should compromise on?
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2023, 10:24:55 AM »

Hi usagi and welcome  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) so much of your story sounds so familiar, so you're in the right place to get some support and tools with your challenging relationship.

It is very common to read here other members' stories that sound just like this:

But recently, I've tried to hold to a boundary I've struggled to maintain.  She's out of town with her son and mother.  She had been asking me if I would attend an event that would keep me from seeing her for a bit longer (half day?) when she gets back in town and it is too much for her to handle.  Additionally, this activity of mine has always been a source of friction.  I feel like I need to hold this boundary because it's something that I feel is part of my identity.  I've already cut back on how often I attend since moving in with her.  Even that seems to be not enough. I want to try to maintain our relationship but I'm afraid that she can't accommodate my needs.

I'm wracked with guilt and feeling that I should just abandon this activity just to please her.  But the rational side of me knows that it will just lead to her stepping over more of my boundaries and possibly lead to me losing my identity.

I'll be seeing her in a couple days and I'm not sure how to talk with her about this. I'm assuming she'll continue with her argument that I'm choosing this over my family. But I don't see it that way.  From what I've read I should definitely recognize her painful emotions and not minimize them.  At the same time, I feel I need to hold to my boundary and my decision to attend the event.  I'm afraid that she'll just kick me out of the house and that will be that.

In a "generally normal" relationship, one partner making a one-time concession to the other partner would be appreciated, and would be seen as a one-time thing.

With a pwBPD (person with BPD), however, "generally normal" relational approaches aren't always effective, and can sometimes make the dynamic worse, just like your rational mind is suspecting.

People with BPD struggle with "all or nothing" thinking especially when it comes to relationships. It seems difficult for them to realize that there isn't a finite amount of love to go around. You can love your family and love doing an activity, and it isn't "stealing" family love to do the activity. The "love pie" doesn't stay a static size; it isn't "robbing" love from one person or area when you love more.

But explaining that doesn't help, as BPD isn't a disorder of "lack of awareness" where if you just explained it more or better, your loved one would finally understand.

So, the responsibility generally is on the non-BPD partner to learn more tools and skills specifically for these high-conflict, non-standard relationships -- and the tools and skills are often non-intuitive. We have to be "emotional leaders" that have firm and loving boundaries, inviting the pwBPD to follow our solid emotional paths but leaving the door open for them to make their own choices.

That's a challenging stance to have when you fear losing a relationship.

...

My first thought is that based on my own experience, some pwBPD are a lot of talk and little followthrough.

A "generally normal" person would probably not threaten, suggest, or imply kicking a partner out unless that person meant to do it.

A pwBPD may say all kinds of really intense, heightened things, not to communicate a factual plan (like a normal person might), but as emotional expression. The "trap" is that we approach the things the pwBPD says as factual communication, and make decisions off of those statements.

It's normal to fear that if a partner has somehow communicated "I'll kick you out if you go to the event", that the partner will actually do that. She may, though, have communicated that as "emotional venting" vs "this is my real and rational plan". That doesn't make it okay, and long term you'll have some decisions to make about if you want that in your relationship, but short term one way to approach those kinds of outbursts could be:

while it would be sad if she followed through on kicking you out, you accept that you have no control over what she says or does, and you plan to live your life regardless.

She could still threaten to kick you out even if you didn't go, right?

It may take a lot of inner strength to maintain You in this relationship, and only you can decide what you are up for.

You can also decide if what she's saying is true -- is it really true that you are choosing your event over your family? It isn't, though, like you said, she doesn't see it that way. You can decide to make choices based on what's true, versus based on her perceptions. It is stepping out on a limb, yet it allows you to be the "emotional leader", modeling healthy balance and individuation in the relationship.

...

So, trying to tie that in to your specific situation, there might be two levels you're working on.

One would be private and internal, where you decide what you want rationally, work out your own explanations for yourself internally, and decide privately what you'll do. Involving a pwBPD in a process of explanation, making arguments for something, justifying something, etc, typically isn't very effective (I think I linked to our thread on Don't J.A.D.E. above).

The other would be what you say to her, which could look like (one of many examples):

"Babe, I'll be at event XYZ from 6:00-11:00, then I'll be looking forward to seeing you at home. What would you like to do together after I get home at 11:00?"

You make a statement about what you'll be doing (not an explanation or justification), and you invite her to share time together. You don't try to convince her to be okay with it, try to justify why it isn't a big deal, etc. Kind of like you're thinking -- you try to recognize some of her emotions without giving up your self.

The hardest part for you may be navigating the fear that she will follow through on her threat to kick you out, and you may feel like you "caused her" to do that, and "if only you had made one compromise", she wouldn't have done it. If that's true for you -- if that is maybe your core fear -- we can work through that here.

...

Lots of food for thought, so I'll wrap it up here. Glad you found us -- keep us posted on your story.

-kells76
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2023, 11:37:23 AM »

Kells has given you some great tips, usagi, rabbit friend. I’d like to add that people with BPD are often threatened by our solo activities that don’t involve them and threaten or urge us to abandon them. Don’t give in to this. Otherwise she will continue to insist that you give up everything meaningful to you: friends, family, and even work.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
usagi
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2023, 02:46:05 PM »

It's been sometime since I posted this so I wanted to follow up with as Paul Harvey used to say ..."the rest of the story".

Before she got back in town we had some conversations over text.  She suggested I go to the event and stay overnight at a friends place so I didn't disturb her sleeping since I'd be out late the night before.  Then there was some hedging on her part and eventually left it up to me.  I said let's stick to the plan and I'll see you on Sunday.  Then I stopped hearing from her.

Nothing for two and a half days.  Then the evening she got back to town she texted that she had expected me to pick her up from the airport, even though she had arranged for someone else to do that.  Then I got more frantic texts about how she was so distraught that I wasn't home when she got home.  I got to my friend's place and she started calling me asking why I was hurting her and choosing this over my family.  More calls of why aren't you coming home, then don't come home.  Finally a call when she was full throated screaming into the phone "where are you!".

I caved.  It was very clear to me she was having a mental health crisis.  So I drove home.  When I got there she was in bed and very quiet.  She started asking me about why I was hurting her.  I tried to explain that this was something we talked about and was only going to do once this year.  No dice.  She said it's either me or your lifestyle.  How could you pick a hobby over me?  This went on for some time.  I said that I wasn't giving up my activity for her but that I'd still be with her.  I then left for the guest bedroom.  On my way there I saw that she had scrawled on the bathroom mirror "You aren't worth the hassle".  My interpretation was this was how she was feeling about herself not a message for me.

The next day she woke me up and said I still had time to go to my activity.  I said that I decided I wasn't going to go.  She kept insisting that I go so I finally said OK maybe I will.  At which point she said "how could you do this to me?".  I fell for the trap.  So I said again I'm not going and we'll spend a great day together.  The entire day she kept breaking down and saying that I didn't love her and how could I hurt her like this.  By the end of the day she was more calm and settled.

Several days went by with continual talks about what happened.  She eventually said that it is OK if I got to these events in the future I just need to communicate it better.  Now, I had already communicated what my intentions were so this didn't really make me feel at ease.

Since then I've really focused on over-reassuring her that I love hear and making sure I preserve our Sundays for just the two of us.  I've realized that I need to really make it clear that I'm not leaving her.

So in the end, I didn't hold this boundary.  But I was legitimately concerned that she might hurt herself or do something rash that night.  I had to go.

In the future I'm going to try to flex my activities around our Sundays as much as possible but I'm sure there will be a time when I can't.  I'll try again and be as firm on my boundaries as possible but it didn't work this time.
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mitochondrium

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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2023, 03:30:39 AM »

hi usagi, Im sorry to hear about your problems. Please take no offense from what I will write, my intentions are well and decision is of course yours. From the follow up story it seems to me that you are walking on eggshells and permitting your spouse to manipulate you to get what she wants.
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2023, 12:20:44 PM »

Been there, done that. 

It's been easier for me to hold a boundary when all she does is get angry and mean and it all blows over eventually.  Another thing when I feel there is a legitimate chance she will hurt herself. That has happened many, many times, and now when it does I feel like I am being held hostage.

Regarding hobbies:  Healthy people have hobbies.  Say that over and over and over to yourself.  If you were spending too much or spending all your time on it, it's one thing.  But for half a day every now and then?  Think of all the time you allow fer her to do what she wants to do.  You know what it right, and what is kind.  There is nothing wrong with taking a little time towards a hobby.  Not only is their nothing wrong, you need to for your own mental well being.   Total enmeshment with a partner is self-destructive.

Take it from me.  I'm close to 50 and have had several hobbies that I have had almost my whole life.  I'd be happy enjoying them for 30 minutes a day, or perhaps 3-4 hours one day a week.  Since getting together with W and especially since having kids, I had slowly had my "hobby time" taken away from me.  When I would tell W that I was going to spend time on hobbies, she may be initially okay, but after 30 minutes or an hour, she is texting me about when I will be done.  Or she is in a crappy mood when I get home telling me all about how hard it was to take care of kids for 3 hours.  Mind you, the previous day I may have taken care of the kids by myself for 4 hours while she got her nails done and met with a friend and did not complain. 

Years of that slowly eroded me to the point where I suddenly felt in the middle of my life and had lost who I was.  I was MISERABLE.  Through the help of a T, I slowly recognized that and found time to do things that helped me feel good and quit waiting so much for her permission and quit caring so much if she was upset - because I knew that I was not doing anything wrong.

I still don't have as much time to do things that I want, but at least I am doing some, and that has gone a long way in helping me feel better about myself.

My advice?  This is a very important boundary and one I don't think even needs to be stated.  Everyone needs time for themselves in order to be healthy.  It sounds like she is slowly chipping away from your personal time.  Even though you caved this time, don't let this set precedence for next time.
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usagi
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2023, 03:14:03 PM »

hi usagi, Im sorry to hear about your problems. Please take no offense from what I will write, my intentions are well and decision is of course yours. From the follow up story it seems to me that you are walking on eggshells and permitting your spouse to manipulate you to get what she wants.

No I would definitely agree here, mitchondrium.  If you ask her that's not what she did but it is certainly what happened.
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usagi
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2023, 03:18:34 PM »

My advice?  This is a very important boundary and one I don't think even needs to be stated.  Everyone needs time for themselves in order to be healthy.  It sounds like she is slowly chipping away from your personal time.  Even though you caved this time, don't let this set precedence for next time.

Thanks maxsterling.  So far she hasn't gone so far as to suggest I don't spend time with my friends or necessarily abandon this hobby.  We've agreed that I get to do it every Saturday morning unless we have plans as a family.  That works well enough except for when there are special events, like what just happened.

After the fact I decided that there were other things I could have done to participate that wouldn't have cut into her time with me.  Not a perfect solution but I still would have gotten what I wanted.

I know that this is important for me to feel like myself.  It's something I enjoy doing and I appreciate the sense of community.  Both of those things are necessary.

While she was raging she demanded that it's either the hobby or her.  I said I wasn't giving up my hobby.  So far she's respecting that.  But yeah I need to make sure I hold this overall boundary of being able to continue to do it.

Thanks for the advice.
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